Job Interviewing - Do's and Don'ts

[kirksnosehair]

Absolutely reasonable.   

[lordxizor]

Good luck! I'm with you that the salary negotiation is more stressful than waiting for an offer sometimes. I talked myself out of even negotiating an offer early this year and just passed on it because I thought there was no way they'd go as high as I was wanting. Maybe should have tried, but I think it was the best choice in the end to pass.

[millahh]

Good luck! I'm with you that the salary negotiation is more stressful than waiting for an offer sometimes. I talked myself out of even negotiating an offer early this year and just passed on it because I thought there was no way they'd go as high as I was wanting. Maybe should have tried, but I think it was the best choice in the end to pass.

I'll admit there is a little bit of feeling that I'm bring greedy... These are not small numbers. But still, if I don't ask, there's no way I'll get it. And bonus and future salary hinges on this, so it is consequential.

I think I'm making my request tomorrow afternoon, fingers crossed...

[gmillerdrake]

I'll admit there is a little bit of feeling that I'm bring greedy... These are not small numbers. But still, if I don't ask, there's no way I'll get it. And bonus and future salary hinges on this, so it is consequential.

I think I'm making my request tomorrow afternoon, fingers crossed...

millahh.....the job I took and that I've been at for three weeks now.....when they offered me the position it was a 38.7% pay increase...to the dime. My jaw figuratively hit the ground because I never in a million years thought I'd be in the tier of pay that they offered me. But I still attempted to negotiate for more. Now, I didn't get it    but I still countered back in the off chance they were just throwing that number out there to begin the negotiations. There's a respectful way to go about it to where they won't see you as greedy and as only doing your due diligence as a valued and talented employee.

[Nick]

Here's a question for you guys.

Wednesday of last week (23rd) I interviewed a guy, and of all my interviews he was the candidate I was most excited about, but I had several potential people I'd be happy with. When I had initially called to set up the interview I left a message and he called me back after he finished his current job for the day.

Friday, after finishing up interviews I emailed him to say what I liked about what he might bring to the team and that I wanted to have some preliminary discussion on what compensation might look like. Monday morning I follow up with a call and voicemail.

Tuesday morning I get the following back on my original email:

"Good Morning Nick

 So sorry for the delay my phone broke and its been a nightmare dealing with the insurance but I finally got one. Can I give you a call later today?

Best,

-Redacted-"

I reply that I was sorry to hear about the phone, but that it would be fine to call and gave my cell number. Tuesday has come and gone and I have not heard from him. My initial response is that I should just be fully prepared to move on since if he was truly interested he would have absolutely followed up with me on the timeline he set. But then I also wonder why he would bother responding to the email at all if he wasn't interested?

Thoughts?

[jingle.boy]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.  There are many reasonable explanations as to why he didn't/couldn't call.  Send him a note, give him a deadline to respond/call, explaining that you need to fill the role, and move on to other candidates before they become unavailable.

[Stadler]

I'm a little reluctant to weigh in here, because I certainly do not want to sway Nick, not knowing the totality of the situation, but...  I have a slightly different take.    He should find a way.   If I needed to make an important call, I have any of 15 phones within 20 minutes of me.  My personal cell, my work cell, my home phone, my office phone, my wife/two daughters/two stepsons... and I haven't even touched other friends and family there, nor have I even mentioned email.    Radio silence right out the gate is NOT a good sign.

Look, I get that we're (presumably) not talking about life-and-death issues here, but let's not forget here that we're not talking about "friends" or "partners"; we're talking about someone that we're going to pay good money to to provide a service back on OUR terms.  I'm all for making the work experience as fun and rewarding an experience as is reasonable, but not - but NEVER - at the expense of the fundamental nature of the relationship:  that person providing a service, at pay, for me or my organization.

[millahh]

I'll admit there is a little bit of feeling that I'm bring greedy... These are not small numbers. But still, if I don't ask, there's no way I'll get it. And bonus and future salary hinges on this, so it is consequential.

I think I'm making my request tomorrow afternoon, fingers crossed...

millahh.....the job I took and that I've been at for three weeks now.....when they offered me the position it was a 38.7% pay increase...to the dime. My jaw figuratively hit the ground because I never in a million years thought I'd be in the tier of pay that they offered me. But I still attempted to negotiate for more. Now, I didn't get it    but I still countered back in the off chance they were just throwing that number out there to begin the negotiations. There's a respectful way to go about it to where they won't see you as greedy and as only doing your due diligence as a valued and talented employee.

Holy shit, that's awesome!!  Especially coming off covid-ployment.

For me, they gave me a range up front (with managing expectations, they are a small company of more limited means), then the opening offer was actually $5k above the top end.  So I think I have pretty good idea of where they stand, but I think there's room for at least a little more.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.  There are many reasonable explanations as to why he didn't/couldn't call.  Send him a note, give him a deadline to respond/call, explaining that you need to fill the role, and move on to other candidates before they become unavailable.

That's where I'm landing on this.  It certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies, but sometimes crazy shit happens in life (especially now). I think the deadline is a good balance, and watching carefully as things unfold.  Of course, I'm also a softie when it comes to this stuff...

[bosk1]

On the salary negotiation issue:  I'm on my third job since graduating law school in 2001.  The first job, I negotiated a bit, but I don't remember the specifics.  The second, in 2004, was a bit more interesting.  I was moving to a significantly less expensive area, and their initial offer was significantly MORE than I had been making previously, so I was a bit conflicted about asking for more and didn't want to blow an already-generous offer.  I asked, but was told immediately that the offer was firm and there was no room on salary.  I instead pivoted and asked whether there was room in the budget for a moving stipend since I was relocating to take the job, and they were able to do that and more than covered my moving expenses.  Matt, I know you know this, but I would try to come up with a potential list of alternatives to ask for if the salary itself is not as flexible as you might like. 

[My present job doesn't really enter into the discussion, since salary ranges for each position within the state are set and not negotiable at all.  They brought me in at the very top of the range into which I was hired, so there was no room to negotiate, but that was fine under the circumstances.]

[Nick]

On the salary negotiation issue:  I'm on my third job since graduating law school in 2001.  The first job, I negotiated a bit, but I don't remember the specifics.  The second, in 2004, was a bit more interesting.  I was moving to a significantly less expensive area, and their initial offer was significantly MORE than I had been making previously, so I was a bit conflicted about asking for more and didn't want to blow an already-generous offer.  I asked, but was told immediately that the offer was firm and there was no room on salary.  I instead pivoted and asked whether there was room in the budget for a moving stipend since I was relocating to take the job, and they were able to do that and more than covered my moving expenses.  Matt, I know you know this, but I would try to come up with a potential list of alternatives to ask for if the salary itself is not as flexible as you might like. 

[My present job doesn't really enter into the discussion, since salary ranges for each position within the state are set and not negotiable at all.  They brought me in at the very top of the range into which I was hired, so there was no room to negotiate, but that was fine under the circumstances.]

On Bosk's point, I already know that if I found myself looking at jobs my main point of negotiation would be vacation time, not salary. Working at a corporate funeral home has its drawbacks for sure, but one of the benefits is that vacation time is above what you can expect of the industry in general. I now generate 24 paid-days off a year and have five holidays that I either have off, or get an additional day off if I work during them. I really love my trips and my time away, and cannot see me accepting any position that would try to limit me to a stern 10-days off a year.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.  There are many reasonable explanations as to why he didn't/couldn't call.  Send him a note, give him a deadline to respond/call, explaining that you need to fill the role, and move on to other candidates before they become unavailable.

That's where I'm landing on this.  It certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies, but sometimes crazy shit happens in life (especially now). I think the deadline is a good balance, and watching carefully as things unfold.  Of course, I'm also a softie when it comes to this stuff...

So I did email the candidate saying I had not heard back from him as expected, and that I needed to have a call from him today to ensure his consideration before moving forward with other candidates. He wrote me back quite quickly to let me know he had tried to call but the call had gone immediately to voicemail (he also called me Chris in the email for some reason).

So again, while I am happy about the quick response, I am confused why someone in his position wouldn't follow up with an additional call, just leave a voicemail, or email me to tell me he was unable to reach me.

[Evermind]

I'll admit there is a little bit of feeling that I'm bring greedy... These are not small numbers. But still, if I don't ask, there's no way I'll get it. And bonus and future salary hinges on this, so it is consequential.

I think I'm making my request tomorrow afternoon, fingers crossed...

millahh.....the job I took and that I've been at for three weeks now.....when they offered me the position it was a 38.7% pay increase...to the dime. My jaw figuratively hit the ground because I never in a million years thought I'd be in the tier of pay that they offered me. But I still attempted to negotiate for more. Now, I didn't get it    but I still countered back in the off chance they were just throwing that number out there to begin the negotiations. There's a respectful way to go about it to where they won't see you as greedy and as only doing your due diligence as a valued and talented employee.

A bit to add on the current topic, not exactly regarding job-searching but regarding payment. I kept quiet about this because I didn't know it'll pan out, but I put in my two-week notice and a resignation letter on Sep 7th because of how our company steadily went to shit over the past few years and I suspected from gauging similar positions I was underpaid; I essentially had way more responsibilities than my position actually entails. In the beginning of the second week, one of the semi-big bosses approached me asking if I already had a job lined up (I hadn't anything set in stone, but I had a few connections in the industry which would've most probably allowed me to get another job), and asked me what would it take me to stay. I was really fed up with all that was going on in the company and asked for a senior engineer role and a 40% raise. I honestly thought he'll just walk away after that.

Today they held a review board for me to see if I'm qualified for the senior role and after half an hour of grilling the board unanimously decided I passed. The position is effective come Oct 1st.

Sometimes it doesn't hurt to shoot for the stars I guess.

[gmillerdrake]

I'll admit there is a little bit of feeling that I'm bring greedy... These are not small numbers. But still, if I don't ask, there's no way I'll get it. And bonus and future salary hinges on this, so it is consequential.

I think I'm making my request tomorrow afternoon, fingers crossed...

millahh.....the job I took and that I've been at for three weeks now.....when they offered me the position it was a 38.7% pay increase...to the dime. My jaw figuratively hit the ground because I never in a million years thought I'd be in the tier of pay that they offered me. But I still attempted to negotiate for more. Now, I didn't get it    but I still countered back in the off chance they were just throwing that number out there to begin the negotiations. There's a respectful way to go about it to where they won't see you as greedy and as only doing your due diligence as a valued and talented employee.

A bit to add on the current topic, not exactly regarding job-searching but regarding payment. I kept quiet about this because I didn't know it'll pan out, but I put in my two-week notice and a resignation letter on Sep 7th because of how our company steadily went to shit over the past few years and I suspected from gauging similar positions I was underpaid; I essentially had way more responsibilities than my position actually entails. In the beginning of the second week, one of the semi-big bosses approached me asking if I already had a job lined up (I hadn't anything set in stone, but I had a few connections in the industry which would've most probably allowed me to get another job), and asked me what would it take me to stay. I was really fed up with all that was going on in the company and asked for a senior engineer role and a 40% raise. I honestly thought he'll just walk away after that.

Today they held a review board for me to see if I'm qualified for the senior role and after half an hour of grilling the board unanimously decided I passed. The position is effective come Oct 1st.

Sometimes it doesn't hurt to shoot for the stars I guess.

NICE!!!   

[jingle.boy]

That is awesome Ruslan.  Though, it's a slippery slope of accepting a counter-offer.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes not.  The latter because now (theoretically) the company knows they don't have to proactively offer you anything, they can wait until you 'quit', then offer you a generous reason to stay.  Keep this in mind over the coming years... whether they proactively offer you any merit rewards, or advancement opportunities.

[millahh]

That is awesome Ruslan.  Though, it's a slippery slope of accepting a counter-offer.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes not.  The latter because now (theoretically) the company knows they don't have to proactively offer you anything, they can wait until you 'quit', then offer you a generous reason to stay.  Keep this in mind over the coming years... whether they proactively offer you any merit rewards, or advancement opportunities.

First off, that is just great news.  There are so many warm fuzzies from all the success stories.

I thought about the counter-offer thing in this case, and it sounds like some of the usual caveats don't apply so much...there wasn't another offer from somewhere else that was on the table that you walked away from, so you haven't lost anything.  And you won a major, role-defining change from your current employer, and they know you won't take shit from them going forward (after all, you were willing to walk away without a new job lined up, which is balls).  And hey, if there's something about it that is still (or becomes) intolerable in a year or two, you still have a year at a higher title and salary under your belt that you could leverage into something else at another shop. I think you played it about as well as you could have, even if this wasn't what you envisioned when you first gave notice.

So I did email the candidate saying I had not heard back from him as expected, and that I needed to have a call from him today to ensure his consideration before moving forward with other candidates. He wrote me back quite quickly to let me know he had tried to call but the call had gone immediately to voicemail (he also called me Chris in the email for some reason).

  That's not strike three, but it's definitely a foul tip after a strike 2...

[Orbert]

It also seems just plain odd.  Like he's trying to blow this opportunity on purpose, yet pretend that he's trying not to.

[jingle.boy]

The comment of ‘I called and it went straight to vmail’ smells fishy too. Yes, that shit happens sometimes.  But when one NEEDS to make contact, leave a damn vmail, AND send a frickin text. I retract my previous statement. Judge him. He’s not your guy. If he’s this flaky when trying to earn the right to be your employee, he could be just as much or more of a flake once he is hired.

[Orbert]

If you call and it goes straight to voicemail, you leave a voicemail.  Why wouldn't you?  The person is on another call or for some other reason cannot talk to you right now.  Do you want this job?  Then leave a damned voicemail.  Also, it's easy enough to check.  Even if it went straight to voicemail, there will be a missed call from him.

Right, Chris?

[jingle.boy]

If you call and it goes straight to voicemail, you leave a voicemail.  Why wouldn't you?  The person is on another call or for some other reason cannot talk to you right now.  Do you want this job?  Then leave a damned voicemail.  Also, it's easy enough to check.  Even if it went straight to voicemail, there will be a missed call from him.

Right, Chris?

Not always, I've certainly had situations where the network/carrier glitched, and I just get a vmail pop out of nowhere, with no missed call.

[millahh]

If you call and it goes straight to voicemail, you leave a voicemail.  Why wouldn't you?  The person is on another call or for some other reason cannot talk to you right now.  Do you want this job?  Then leave a damned voicemail.  Also, it's easy enough to check.  Even if it went straight to voicemail, there will be a missed call from him.

Right, Chris?

Not always, I've certainly had situations where the network/carrier glitched, and I just get a vmail pop out of nowhere, with no missed call.

Same here. In fact, I had it happen for one of the really phone interviews for the offer I got this week, and I thought the interviewer had just forgotten to call me.

[Stadler]

I don't know; I guess it's my GE days, or I'm just a dick generally, but in a work environment, I'm sort of a "make it happen" kind of guy.  You find a way if you really want to make the connection, and if I'm hiring, I want people that "really want to make the connection".   I suppose if a voicemail never comes up on their phone, there's only so much, but it's 2020, the age of connectivity.  We seem to find ways of sending dick pics and memes on Facebook and spammity calamity phone calls; they never seem to have a problem getting through. 

[millahh]

The more I think about it, there more it seems like the guy is trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Was email not an option? Nor texting?

[Nick]

First off, congrats Ruslan, that's awesome!

An update on my guy. I would have happily moved on if I didn't think the guy was the best of all that applied thus far, but here is where we are.

He did end up calling me last night and we had a good discussion, and while we didn't discuss this mishap specifically I honestly think because of his age (24) that he just didn't give any thought to not leaving a voicemail or checking in some other way. Not to say I'm happy about it, but I don't think it was malicious or game playing on his part. All that said at the end of the day I think he's asking for too much for me to make him an offer that will work out anyway, so it's all likely a moot point.

[jingle.boy]

First off, congrats Ruslan, that's awesome!

An update on my guy. I would have happily moved on if I didn't think the guy was the best of all that applied thus far, but here is where we are.

He did end up calling me last night and we had a good discussion, and while we didn't discuss this mishap specifically I honestly think because of his age (24) that he just didn't give any thought to not leaving a voicemail or checking in some other way. Not to say I'm happy about it, but I don't think it was malicious or game playing on his part. All that said at the end of the day I think he's asking for too much for me to make him an offer that will work out anyway, so it's all likely a moot point.

[millahh]

So, my attempt at negotiating didn't work at all . Turns out I was already pegged to the top of the range on base and target. But... The yearly merit increase is one the order of 6-7% instead of the 2-3% I was used to, and promotion increases are ~10% instead of 8%. Plus the bonus target bumps up quickly and there are spot bonuses of stock. So, after about two years, I'll be ahead of where I thought I'd be if I'd gotten the bump I was negotiating for.

I was also reminded that I said this was the kind of company I wanted to work for, and how miserable I'd be at a big pharma... Which may have decreased my leverage in the end, but I think it's part of why I got a maximum offer straightaway.

[Evermind]

Thanks for all the congratulations guys, was away for a couple of days on a business trip and didn't check the forum at all. I appreciate it.

That is awesome Ruslan.  Though, it's a slippery slope of accepting a counter-offer.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes not.  The latter because now (theoretically) the company knows they don't have to proactively offer you anything, they can wait until you 'quit', then offer you a generous reason to stay.  Keep this in mind over the coming years... whether they proactively offer you any merit rewards, or advancement opportunities.

That's fair. When I was thinking if I should accept it or not this was basically my line of thoughts:

And hey, if there's something about it that is still (or becomes) intolerable in a year or two, you still have a year at a higher title and salary under your belt that you could leverage into something else at another shop.

that if I decide to search for anything else in a couple of years, the experience in a senior position is going to be a huge help. I would've been worried that they would think I'm not loyal and begin to search for a replacement for me; however we are severely understaffed so I'm fairly sure this is not something I should be worried about right now.

I think you played it about as well as you could have, even if this wasn't what you envisioned when you first gave notice.

Yeah, I was pretty much mentally prepared to leave. I think that might've actually helped with the whole situation a bit. I wasn't bluffing the company into offering me more, I was just done with the whole thing, and I suppose it showed.

So, my attempt at negotiating didn't work at all . Turns out I was already pegged to the top of the range on base and target. But... The yearly merit increase is one the order of 6-7% instead of the 2-3% I was used to, and promotion increases are ~10% instead of 8%. Plus the bonus target bumps up quickly and there are spot bonuses of stock. So, after about two years, I'll be ahead of where I thought I'd be if I'd gotten the bump I was negotiating for.

Sounds good, especially with that yearly merit increase!

[gmillerdrake]

Received a call yesterday from the company I'm still technically furloughed from regarding the status of my position there. They were just confirming what I've already known and expected that my position is being eliminated effective two days ago, 10/7. But the cool part is:

I will receive one month of my regular pay as something they called 'Notification Pay'
Then two weeks after that I get a check that will be my PTO cash out....I had 117 hours of PTO still so that was a nice chunk of change.
THEN....I am receiving severance pay and I will say that it is MUCH higher than I ever anticipated. It was based off of time at the company (I was there close to 9 years) so when she told me the number I was like  I'll get that amount broken into payments every two weeks until January 22nd

The cool thing is that my insurance from that company stays in effect until November 14th and my insurance from my new company will be effective this coming up Monday, so that was my largest concern the whole time that my old position would be eliminated prior to my new insurance going into effect....so them overlapping was a relief. The $$$ is a plus for sure and it'll help replenish some funds that we spent while I was on furlough since May. The plan is to just sock all this $$$ away for another rainy day.

[axeman90210]

Rainy day is a funny name for Blues luxury box tickets

[Chino]

Rainy day is a funny name for Blues luxury box tickets

I was thinking a new set of golf clubs 

[gmillerdrake]

Rainy day is a funny name for Blues luxury box tickets

I was thinking a new set of golf clubs 

Brian.....you are reading my mind. I told myself that for my 45th birthday in January I was going to get a new set of clubs and do it right. Have my swing analyzed...get them sized and fitted.....the while nine yards. This will help me not feel as bad about spending the $$ when I do that. 

[millahh]

That's awesome Gary, it's great so see how people land on their feet (and sometimes even positioned better than they were pre-Covid).

I've finally got some real clarity now.  Signed my offer letter on Tuesday, and got my official notification that I'm being made redundant from the current gig yesterday afternoon (there's a little irony to this, 15 years ago today was my first day with the predecessor company, the only "career" job I've ever had). I've been in limbo for 16 months, and only now finally truly know what is going on. It's somehow both a major relief and anti-climactic at the same time.

One thing that will be interesting in how this plays out is when the exact last day is...as severance pays out 60 days later. What I got was "around the end of October"...but October 30 means severance would hit this tax year instead of next, whereas Nov 6 leaves no doubt that it would hit 2021 taxes.  I think it should be Nov 6, but we'll see.

[jingle.boy]

Good news all around for both of ya!  Gary, your situation sounds similar to mine a few years ago.  When I saw the severance offer, I was like "gimme da pen and let me sign that fuckin thing!"

[dparrott]

I just applied for two jobs on Indeed.  One of them had a 65 question survey and another a whopping 114 QUESTIONS!  WTF is this crap?  I've never had this many before. The questions were about personality and previous work experience.  Some of the questions asked about the same thing.  I hope there's a way to summarize all of these answers, I would think no worker has time to go through thousands of individual answers.

[cramx3]

I just applied for two jobs on Indeed.  One of them had a 65 question survey and another a whopping 114 QUESTIONS!  WTF is this crap?  I've never had this many before. The questions were about personality and previous work experience.  Some of the questions asked about the same thing.  I hope there's a way to summarize all of these answers, I would think no worker has time to go through thousands of individual answers.

Im guessing no one sees those answers (at least not initially) and some algorithm spits out to the company some sort of breakdown of your answers to determine if you make it to the next stage or not, just a guess I have no experience with this.

[millahh]

That would be my guess as well, but it seems kind of absurd. Maybe either a hyper-specialized job that would draw a lot of unqualified applicants, or something that would see a huge volume of applications. What kind of job?

[cramx3]

That would be my guess as well, but it seems kind of absurd. Maybe either a hyper-specialized job that would draw a lot of unqualified applicants, or something that would see a huge volume of applications. What kind of job?

Yea, I could see that as being a way to weed people out.  "100+ questions just to apply? nvmd" is probably the mindset of many who are just throwing applications around.