Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[Orbert]

I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically it’s got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Waltons vibes?     I get what you're saying, though.

I find it odd that the UK version of Three Sides Live has all four sides of live material.  I put the UK version CD in my Amazon cart because I'd like to have that extra live material.  We'll see if I pull the trigger on it.

Most of the studio material which made up the fourth side of Three Sides Live in the U.S. had already been officially released in the U.K.  The three tracks from the Abacab sessions made up the EP 3 x 3 (three by three), which wasn't released in the States.  The remaining two tracks were outtakes from Duke.  So for the U.K. release of Three Sides Live, they decided to fill out the fourth side with additional live material.

[Stadler]

Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s. Excellent stuff.

HAHAHA, to this day, "Evidence Of Autumn" reminds me of my college girlfriend.  And it's funny; I CAN'T really picture her face or form, but her memory DOES linger on! 

[HOF]

Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.

I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically it’s got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Ok, who did this track indexing on this? They split One for the Vine up as two separate tracks, but then combined Salmacis and It (plus a snippet of Watcher of the Skies) into one track. Why? Maybe because that was all from a different show? Still doesn’t make sense to split of OFTV.

[Stadler]

Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.

I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically it’s got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Ok, who did this track indexing on this? They split One for the Vine up as two separate tracks, but then combined Salmacis and It (plus a snippet of Watcher of the Skies) into one track. Why? Maybe because that was all from a different show? Still doesn’t make sense to split of OFTV.

To my knowledge, that had nothing to do with the show itself, it was a mistake in mastering.  The songs are all from different shows.  "One For The Vine" is from that May 5 show from Drury Lane in London, "Fountain Of Salmacis" says "unknown", but I think it's from Knebworth in England from 1978, and "it/Watcher Of The Skies" (It's really "it" with the intro to "Watcher..." attached as a sort of coda) is from the same July 1976 show(s) from Glasgow that was featured in the "In Concert" film.

I actually re-edited it on my iPod to fix the mistake.  It was ultimately fixed on the 2009 box sets.

Also, FYI, the music on the video "Three Sides Live" is largely different than the music on the album.   

[Max Kuehnau]

I see them as being companion pieces (and I have them both and I love them, had it on tape as a child and on Bluray now, which is brilliant)

[Stadler]

Just got tickets for The Musical Box on June 15th, doing the full Lamb Lies Down show, in Norwalk, CT.   I was just for shits and giggles looking at the The Musical Box website (not one of the best in the world, mind you) and saw the shows, three of them, one in CT and two in NY, coming up in a week or so.

I've seen them three times - two with the "Selling England..." setlist, including one "The Black Show", and Vol. 2 of the "Extravaganza" setlist - and they are phenomenal.  I've missed the three previous Lamb tours for various reasons, so I'm really jazzed to see it finally.

[emtee]

Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

[The Letter M]

Happy 37th Birthday to Invisible Touch! And a couple days ago on the 4th, Three Sides Live turned 41 years old!

Sorry if this post made any of you feel old(er)!

-Marc.

[billboy73]

Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is the album that I would have ranked lower in their discography a few years ago, but over the past few years it has really grown on me.  I love a lot of the quirkiness of that album.  Dodo/Lurker is my favorite Genesis song, and I love pretty much everything on ABACAB including the stuff they left off the album.  Even that one bad song (Whodunnit I'm guessing) scratches an itch every one in awhile. 

[HOF]

Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is great. Have always loved it (minus the one song I imagine you are referring to! If only You Might Recall were there instead!).

[Stadler]

Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is the album that I would have ranked lower in their discography a few years ago, but over the past few years it has really grown on me.  I love a lot of the quirkiness of that album.  Dodo/Lurker is my favorite Genesis song, and I love pretty much everything on ABACAB including the stuff they left off the album.  Even that one bad song (Whodunnit I'm guessing) scratches an itch every one in awhile.

There's a semi-apocryphal "ABACAB Complete" that purports to be a radio-promo cassette release with the other songs from the sessions (including the full "Dodo Suite").  I have that playlist on my iPod. When - NOT IF, WHEN! Haha - Kev does his Genesis song countdown, "You Might Recall" will likely be in my top 15.  On any given Sunday, Abacab is my favorite Genesis album (it was also my first, so there's that).   I love that record.   Beautiful sound, beautiful playing...  everything I want in a Genesis record. 

EDIT:  Also, for having "Man On The Corner" and "No Reply At All", it's also in it's own way one of the more truly PROGRESSIVE records in the catalogue.    Every song is very different, and there are some real adventurous things going on, almost subversively (the "riddle" of the Lurker, the structure of "Me And Sarah Jane", the introduction of the horns, etc.). 

[Kwyjibo]

Abacab is not my favorite Genesis record (that would probably be Duke) but it's nonetheless a great one.

[Madman Shepherd]

Just got tickets for The Musical Box on June 15th, doing the full Lamb Lies Down show, in Norwalk, CT.   I was just for shits and giggles looking at the The Musical Box website (not one of the best in the world, mind you) and saw the shows, three of them, one in CT and two in NY, coming up in a week or so.

I've seen them three times - two with the "Selling England..." setlist, including one "The Black Show", and Vol. 2 of the "Extravaganza" setlist - and they are phenomenal.  I've missed the three previous Lamb tours for various reasons, so I'm really jazzed to see it finally.

Saw them two weeks ago. They never disappoint. Saw them a few years ago do an abbreviated Lamb set and it was the first time that album clicked with me. Couldn't wait to go back and listen to it in my car and my reaction was, "Meh, I appreciate it more now but fuck it doesn't translate as well when not live."

After the show 2 weeks ago, I concur with my opinion.

[ytserush]

Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

That whole era Seconds Out through Genesis is GOLD to me. Can't go a few weeks without listening to something.

[Stadler]

By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!     I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagné in the role of Peter Gabriel. 

[Madman Shepherd]

By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!     I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagné in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker

[Stadler]

By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!     I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagné in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker

HAHA.  That's the beauty of getting old!!!

Yeah, live is really a revelation; I'm sorry you didn't get to see the whole thing.  "it" was one of those revelatory moments for me; it REALLY came to life live (sorry, I don't mean to rub it in).  I don't know if it was planned this way at the writing stages or not, but certainly there was a LOT of thought put into the production.   There were a couple moments where I thought to myself "that's a really neat, subtle detail!" 

[ytserush]

By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!     I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagné in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker

Still not a fan of it but Kevin Gilbert's live version wasn't that bad.

[KevShmev]

Feels like a good time to revisit this thread, now that the top bands countdown has moved on to the next artist.  That way, we can go to work on twosuitsluke to get him into Genesis. 

[HOF]

I’ve gotten on a big Genesis kick the last few weeks for whatever reason. Listening to a bunch of live stuff mostly, but also was revisiting their self-titled album, which is actually the first full Genesis album I heard. I know Luke doesn’t like the sound of the 80s, so that’s probably not a great one to start with. But man Second Home By The Sea remains one of the most gorgeous pieces of music they wrote. The best parts of Genesis are where they hit on one big soaring melody, usually a Banks keyboard theme but sometimes a Hackett guitar theme. Think Second Home, Cinema Show, the end of Supper’s Ready, Stagnation, Fading Lights, One For the Vine, All in a Mouse's Night, etc. So many of them, but all so good.

[KevShmev]

I’ve gotten on a big Genesis kick the last few weeks for whatever reason. Listening to a bunch of live stuff mostly, but also was revisiting their self-titled album, which is actually the first full Genesis album I heard. I know Luke doesn’t like the sound of the 80s, so that’s probably not a great one to start with. But man Second Home By The Sea remains one of the most gorgeous pieces of music they wrote. The best parts of Genesis are where they hit on one big soaring melody, usually a Banks keyboard theme but sometimes a Hackett guitar theme. Think Second Home, Cinema Show, the end of Supper’s Ready, Stagnation, Fading Lights, etc. So many of them, but all so good.

Generally speaking, I agree.  Even on the later albums when the songs got more accessible, it was the music that usually carried the day.  I remember Mama being the first Genesis song of which I ever took note thanks to MTV playing it a lot, and the 10-year old me thought that main keyboard melody was one of the raddest things I had ever heard.  I was an instant fan thanks to that keyboard melody alone.

Back to recs, I think Bill's post from the other thread (that I will quote here) was a good suggestion:

If you listen to Selling England..., Wind And Withering, Duke and Invisible Touch and don't like it, then you probably aren't going to be a fan.

With those four albums, you'll pretty much get a great overview of every Genesis era, style, etc. 

As much as I love The Lamb, that is too big a hurdle for a newbie, but once you are a fan and give it a whirl...stand back. 

[HOF]

Yeah, I'd personally probably shy away from The Lamb to start, but maybe if the bizarre and avant garde are more of Luke's thing, that one might work for him. I think of The Lamb as a good idea that just got bloated down by Gabriel's excessive wordiness, and it probably could have been cut down to a more effective single album, but it does have its moments for sure.

[Orbert]

Gabriel had written so many lyrics that they briefly considered making The Lamb a triple album.  A lot of the musical ideas could have been expanded, etc.

As it is, I agree with the basic criticism that the second half meanders a bit and kinda loses me, though there are some bright spots along the way.  I don't know if cutting it all the way back to a single LP would've been the answer, though.  In the CD and digital age, the exact length of an album doesn't matter quite as much.  It might've been a pretty good 60-minute album.  But that would be 1.5 LPs.  What do you do with the fourth side?  Concept albums, especially concept story albums, tended to be 2 LPs just because they seemed to demand more than a single LP to flesh out the concept.  So that's what they went with.

[Stadler]

FYI, I tried to cover the "Gabriel wordiness" with Selling; "The Battle of Epping Forest" is like a 10-minute synopsis of The Lamb, in a way.   

[KevShmev]

Outside of The Waiting Room, which is useless and annoying, there is not much on The Lamb I'd want to lose.  I suppose you could lose Silent Sorrows... and Ravine, but concept albums often have/need an ambient/transitional piece or two to help the flow and add a bit of texture and character.  I cannot think of what else on Disc 2 I'd wanna see go.  For my money, outside of the start of the album through In the Cage, the 3-song run of Anyway, Here Comes... and The Lamia is the best stretch of music on the record.

[SoundscapeMN]

I actually started with The Lamb back in '96 after seeing Portnoy talk about it in some interview, and while I liked some of it, it took me at least 3-4 years til I checked out the previous records to finally get into Genesis. I even recall picking up Calling All Stations in '97 when "Congo" was being played on the radio, but only vaguely liking it.

[KevShmev]

I still have never heard Calling All Stations and have zero desire to check it out.

[Orbert]

I consider it for completists only.  Banks and Rutherford are both excellent musicians and can be pretty good songwriters, so it's not like the final album is totally without merit.  There's some good stuff.  But the album overall suffers from being only half-baked (by their own admission) and the songs are pretty inconsistent.

[SoundscapeMN]

The Dividing Line is great, although at least some of the record comes across like if Neal Morse was fronting Pink Floyd.

[HOF]

I still have never heard Calling All Stations and have zero desire to check it out.

I enjoy the majority of it. It lacks the dynamic front man presence of a Gabriel or Collins, but the music is still pretty good and for the most part Ray Wilson does a good job with the material he was given. There is a sense of a lot of the songs feeling unfinished with all the fadeouts, but there are some classic Genesis-type moments as well.

Uncertain Weather is a beautiful song, The Dividing Line is a drumming tour de force, and several of the songs hit a little harder than prior Genesis material. The title track has a really meaty lead guitar line that I wish we would have heard more of from Rutherford. There Must Be Some Other Way is really strong, and One’s Man Fool is a nice closer.

The album kind of lives and dies with the ballads. I like Shipwrecked and Not About Us well enough, but they don’t really sound like Genesis. If That’s What You Need is pretty awful though.

A lot of people hate Congo, but I think that one would have fit in well on the previous two albums, and I’ve always enjoyed it for what it is.

The three unreleased tracks that are featured on the 2007 Box Set are all really good and could have improved the album considerably in favor of some of the tracks that made it.

[KevShmev]

I'll take your word for it.

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

[HOF]

I'll take your word for it.

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate had a video that may have been played on MTV back in the day. It’s a great song.

[Kwyjibo]

There are two versions of Three Sides Live. One consists completey of live version, the other one has some studio tracks on the fourth side, among them Paperlate and other songs from the 3x3 EP and some Duke b-sides.

[HOF]

Listening to CAS now, and I think I’d be willing to say it’s on the same level as We Can’t Dance. I probably listen to it more than We Can’t Dance. It’s better than most prog bands produced at the end of their careers.

[KevShmev]

I'll take your word for it.

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate had a video that may have been played on MTV back in the day. It’s a great song.

Hmmm, I will have to seek that out and see if I remember the video.