Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[MinistroRaven]

Steve Hackett album review by my great friend: Bernard Romero: https://lotsofmuzik.com/steve-hackett-under-a-mediterranean-sky-review/ enoy it!

 

[emtee]

Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

[ytserush]

Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

That's been my experience with the '76 to '83 era.  Never gets old.

[Stadler]

Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

That's been my experience with the '76 to '83 era.  Never gets old.

Boom.  I just randomly put on the audio from the Mama Tour (at Wembley) and same thing.   Just got transported...

[Fritzinger]

Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

Supper's Ready is one of those songs that have the exact same effect on me. I think Genesis of all artists I know have the most songs that do that. Other songs like this are Mad Man Moon, Can-Utility, Burning Rope, Firth Of Fifth (duh), Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and especially One For The Vine. Among others of course. Thanks for reminding me what a masterpiece One For The Vine is, Orbert   Whenever I hear those songs closely, I can't believe what those lads were able to compose.

[Orbert]

To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).

[Stadler]

Sorry if it's a repeat, but while I agree with both of you in terms of the "compositional skills", I think the period following Gabriel's exit through, say, Abacab, was the sweetest spot for pure composition.  I think the early stuff got too compromised amongst the band, and after the self-titled, the process changed (to the "jam" as source of material).   But some of those mid-period songs - One For The Vine, All In A Mouse's Night, Me And Sarah Jane, the instrumental suite on W&W, Cul-de-sac - are compositional tours de force.   Perhaps more concise than something like "Battle Of Epping Forest", but well-thought out nonetheless.

[DTA]

Me And Sarah Jane is probably one of the most interesting songs from a compositional standpoint Tony ever wrote. It progresses in such a unique way that no other song of theirs really does imo. Add in the awesomeness that is Dodo and Keep It Dark and you have probably my favorite album of theirs (tied with The Lamb)

[The Letter M]

To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).

I recall reading about this with regards to "Epping Forest", as well as bits of The Lamb. I think at first, it wasn't an issue (during the Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot years), but it slowly became an issue when it seemed like Peter and the others were almost two separate entities, where the band would write the music without Peter's input, and then he would write his lyrics over their music (without much input from the band). It's been a long long time since I've read any Genesis history though, so I could be remembering things a bit wrong.

-Marc.

[HOF]

To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).

I recall reading about this with regards to "Epping Forest", as well as bits of The Lamb. I think at first, it wasn't an issue (during the Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot years), but it slowly became an issue when it seemed like Peter and the others were almost two separate entities, where the band would write the music without Peter's input, and then he would write his lyrics over their music (without much input from the band). It's been a long long time since I've read any Genesis history though, so I could be remembering things a bit wrong.

-Marc.

I think the most famous example is Apocalypse in 9/8 where Gabriel comes in with “666.” Banks was not happy that Pete interfered with his climactic moment. I’m not sure how it would have come out if he didn’t jump back in there. Ultimately, Banks has admitted it was better that he did.

[Orbert]

Sometimes it works really well, sometimes maybe not so well but it still works.  It's hard to say because we're so used to hearing those parts with the vocals; you have to really cop a different mindset and listen to the music and mentally filter out the vocals.

There's a clip of Genesis in 1976 doing "Fly on a Windshield" as an instrumental.  I recognized it, but since I only ever listen to The Lamb all at once, I wasn't sure which "song" it was.  Then we got to the part where the vocals would come in and they didn't and I realized what piece it was.

[Zydar]

They've posted a short rehearsal teaser for the upcoming tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPqRQI7Vjo

[Fritzinger]

They've posted a short rehearsal teaser for the upcoming tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPqRQI7Vjo

I think the band sounds fantastic! I hope Phil can keep up.

I'm kinda bummed out though that there is so much bitterness in the comments of Genesis' FB posts. I for one am looking forward to the concert in Glasgow (never been there!) in October and I hope it won't be postponed again.

[HOF]

Nicholas looks/sounds like he’ll fill his dad’s shoes nicely. No Chester for this tour? I guess he’s not necessary without Phil juggling drum and singing duties.

[Fritzinger]

Nicholas looks/sounds like he’ll fill his dad’s shoes nicely. No Chester for this tour? I guess he’s not necessary without Phil juggling drum and singing duties.

It was never considered to include Chester I think. AFAIK he is semi-retired/playing in a local jazz band and apparently fine with that 

[Zydar]

What do you guys think the setlist will look like? Pretty much the same as the 2007 tour? No surprises?

[Fritzinger]

What do you guys think the setlist will look like? Pretty much the same as the 2007 tour? No surprises?

There was some talk about White Mountain, because of the red-eyed wolf on the screen round the 20 second mark of the teaser. That would be a big surprise imo. Plus, it doesn't have that big of a range, so I think it would be possible for Phil so sing.

I used to only like 70s Genesis, but I've grown to absolutely love their 80s stuff as well, so I'm fine with whatever they play (yes I admit it, I'm a total fanboy). I would love some surprises of course, though I don't think we'll hear anything like Dance On A Volcano, Down & Out, In That Quiet Earth or Can-Utility. Cul-de-Sac would be impossible for Phil to sing. I'd love something mellow from their earlier days though, like The Lamia, the mentioned White Mountain, Seven Stones or the masterful Burning Rope (which weirdly is never being talked about when Banks' composing is discussed). I think the main part of the concert will consist of songs like Domino, Throwing, No Son, Home By The Sea, Follow Me, songs from the Duke Suite. And I'm fine with that.

[DTA]

I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Duke’s Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though I’m hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)

[Fritzinger]

I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Duke’s Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though I’m hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)

How do you know Duchess will be included? They might as well play the whole Duke Suite in the right order, like they did on the Duke tour! 

I think out of the songs you mentioned, I'd love to hear It's Gonna Get Better. That song is a very under appreciated gem. And it includes Banks' characteristically weird harmonies and even some polyrhythms.

[Stadler]

^^ There's an extended version on one of the singles (Mama, maybe?) that's worth having. 

I think it's setting the bar a bit too high to expect anything radically different than 2007, since 2007 itself wasn't radically different than that which came for the twenty years before that (though it was a very balanced set, IMO).  You may get a swap-out for Ripples, and you may get an added insert on the In The Cage medley, but I wouldn't expect their first gigs in 14 years to be pushing too many envelopes, especially with Nicholas on the cans (no matter how good he is).

[DTA]

I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Duke’s Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though I’m hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)

How do you know Duchess will be included? They might as well play the whole Duke Suite in the right order, like they did on the Duke tour! 

I think out of the songs you mentioned, I'd love to hear It's Gonna Get Better. That song is a very under appreciated gem. And it includes Banks' characteristically weird harmonies and even some polyrhythms.

Tony mentioned its inclusion for this tour in some interview I read months ago (its his favorite Genesis song too I believe). Obviously things change and songs get dropped so that’s always a possibility but I think we’ll see it this time around.

[HOF]

Really cool podcast interview with Mike Rutherford here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rockonteurs-with-gary-kemp-and-guy-pratt/id1530701242

Just discovered this series with Guy Pratt (bass for Pink Floyd, Toy Matinee, various sessions) and Gary Kemp (Spandau Ballet). They’ve interviewed a bunch of interesting artists (Jon Bon Jovi, Roland Orzebal, Billy Corgan, Alice Cooper), but this is the first one I’ve checked out. A lot of discussion about the early days of Genesis and how the band sort of developed their style and sound. Also some Mike + The Mechanics discussion, as well as some talk about the current Genesis reunion tour. Just a very nice, causal conversation.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Todd Suchermann was sharing this on FB:

Genesis live, Paris Bataclan 1973 long version, 16mm master in 4k

The quality is pretty amazing!

[HOF]

Todd Suchermann was sharing this on FB:

Genesis live, Paris Bataclan 1973 long version, 16mm master in 4k

The quality is pretty amazing!

Saw a little bit of this but haven’t had a chance to watch it all yet. The picture is amazing though!

[Orbert]

I watched some of that the other day.  Horrible cut removing half of Supper's Ready (including Apocalype in 9/8) and jumping suddenly to the end.  I switched to something else at that point.  Why have a "long version" if you're gonna chop up the songs anyway?

[frogprog]

Wow! That is amazing footage. They were so young!

[SoundscapeMN]

it is pretty amazing how it was restored, however the film itself has been a well-circulated bootleg for ages.

[Stadler]

A portion of it was on the 2008 box set, no?

[XeRocks81]

the footage isn't new but it has never looked this good,  It's unbelievable.  Streamed it to a 4K OLED tv and my jaw was on the floor the whole time. 

[Orbert]

Am I missing something?  Who cares how good the video looks if they butcher the audio?  It's not like we've never seen early footage of Genesis before.

[SoundscapeMN]

https://www.genesis-music.com/

Last Domino Tour coming to North America this Fall.

[romdrums]

Not going to miss this.  I was mad that I missed them in 2007.  They are the only one of my favorite bands I haven't seen live.

[King Postwhore]

Wife wants to go.  I saw them on the Invisible Touch tour.

[jammindude]

ZERO WEST COAST DATES? 

[Stadler]

Wife wants to go.  I saw them on the Invisible Touch tour.

I saw that tour as well.  I thought it was amazing.

Romdrums, I can't speak to how they'll be now, at 70 and with Phil in a straightjacket or whatever, but their music translates so well live.

I think I'm going to try to see this at MSG in NY.  The sound there is so solid.

EDIT:  Wow, Tony is finally starting to look his age a bit.  The guy has looked "42" for the last 30 something years, and he's finally starting to seem, well, older than me!