Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[The Letter M]

I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.

Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I feel like Happy The Man sounds more like Trespass than Nursery Crime. Lots of bits remind me of Stagnation, for example.    Twilight Alehouse is another track that's definitely one of their best and most interesting songs. The drums at the end really rock.   

These two songs are pretty nice, especially for being the only 2 non-album songs from the Gabriel-era that were fully recorded (not counting live at the BBC songs, or demos). The former is a work that reminds me a lot of various material from their first three albums, tho I play it with NC more than TP, same with "Twilight Alehouse", especially since both tracks have Steve and Phil on them. Check further back in the thread if you're interested in my alternate tracklist for Nursery Cryme (which is how I've been listening to it for the last month or more).

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

Naminanu is great as well. Reminds me of something Yes would do.

I still have a lot further down the rabbit hole yet to go. It sure is deeper than I thought.

"Naminanu" is a great, fast-paced piece which, for me, serves as the opening for the suite on Abacab - Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine. Lots of folks put "Naminanu" after "Submarine" but for me, it makes more sense as an overture, which are typically instrumental in prog anyway, and ending the suite with 8 minutes of instrumental just doesn't make any sense to me either.

And yes, there are tons more of Post-Gabriel B-sides to discover and enjoy. Personally, I've made tracklists for each album that includes all of the songs from those sessions, for a more "complete" version of the album. Is it what the band intended? Ehh, probably  not, but I like the idea of having everything in one go, even if the songs were left off for one reason or another (though with how long their albums tended to be with regards to vinyl's constraints, I'm betting album length was a factor in deciding which songs to leave off).

-Marc.

[Stadler]

I've assembled both the Dodo Suite and the Duke Suites on my iPod, and I've also assembled the "Abacab Complete" album, which incorporates both the Suite and the b-sides.  I'm sure something similar can be done with the Duke album as well. 

[The Letter M]

I've assembled both the Dodo Suite and the Duke Suites on my iPod, and I've also assembled the "Abacab Complete" album, which incorporates both the Suite and the b-sides.  I'm sure something similar can be done with the Duke album as well.

Nice!

If you want a suggestion for a complete Duke tracklisting, here's what I've got:
Behind The Lines
Duchess
Guide Vocal
Man Of Our Times
Misunderstanding
Heathaze
Evidence Of Autumn
Turn It On Again
Alone Tonight
Cul-De-Sac
Open Door
Please Don't Ask
Duke's Travels
Duke's End

This has been my preferred listening order for Duke ever since I got into the band over 13 years ago.

-Marc.

[PROGdrummer]

I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.

Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I had heard that one before! It is very interesting.  Here's the edit I've been listening to. Admittedly, it does cut out all of that lovely atmospheric noodling, but I do like the way this edit flows into Los Endos. It's very natural sounding to me and manages to improve Los Endos for me. Having that melodic and emotional vocal with the gentle guitars before building into the frenetic ride cymbal and "Weather Report" style jam, it's makes for a more dynamic piece than  default vanilla Los Endos, and kinda sets you up for the conclusion of the album as well.  I think It's Yourself makes a very nice "closing thoughts" musical statement paired with Los Endos in this way.

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).

Luckily, I don't pay much mind to the "eras" of Genesis music in the grand scheme of things, and I love every album pretty much equally. I throw in all the 70's Gabriel stuff the 70's Collins stuff and the 80s stuff into one big playlist and enjoy, so it's definitely a treat digging up all these rarer tracks to add to the mix. Such a versatile and varied body of work!

[The Letter M]

I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.

Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I had heard that one before! It is very interesting.  Here's the edit I've been listening to. Admittedly, it does cut out all of that lovely atmospheric noodling, but I do like the way this edit flows into Los Endos. It's very natural sounding to me and manages to improve Los Endos for me. Having that melodic and emotional vocal with the gentle guitars before building into the frenetic ride cymbal and "Weather Report" style jam, it's makes for a more dynamic piece than  default vanilla Los Endos, and kinda sets you up for the conclusion of the album as well.  I think It's Yourself makes a very nice "closing thoughts" musical statement paired with Los Endos in this way.

Ahh yes, I've heard that edit before, and I liked it originally because the link between the two seemed obvious, but when I discovered that connection between IY and MMM, it made sense to put it where I have it now. I also like having IY earlier in the album and then hearing the reprise in the opening of "Los Endos", because really, "Los Endos" is a reprisal of so many things, so it makes sense as a standalone finale for the album, reprising "It's Yourself", "Dance On A Volcano" and "Squonk", which itself also has a reprisal of a melody from DOAV. This album is full of riffs and melodies that are scattered and shared throughout, so I like having "Los Endos" stand alone at the end without chopping up "It's Yourself" as an "overture" to it.

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).

From the wiki article on Please Don't Touch:

Hackett had previously released a solo album, Voyage of the Acolyte, while still a member of Genesis, but he was frustrated by the collaborative process of Genesis which left much of his creative work unreleased. He insisted that more of his material be included on their next album. Of the four songs he brought to the writing sessions, only one, "Blood on the Rooftops", was worked on and included on their next album. He wrote a song, "Please Don't Touch", that Genesis rehearsed but ended up setting aside, partly because the other members of the band did not want to use it. He also wrote a second song, "Hoping Love Will Last", that he felt was appropriate only for a female singer, which was something that the band could not use. A third song, "Inside and Out", was left off the album, but found its way to the EP Spot the Pigeon alongside two other songs written by other members that were also left off the album. Eventually, the track Wot Gorilla? was decided on as the last track on the first side of Wind and Wuthering, and this decision sealed Hackett's decision to leave Genesis. Hackett quit Genesis and began to record the album Please Don't Touch, using the rejected Genesis song as the title track.[3]

Seems like Hackett had a LOT of material for W&W, but only "Blood On The Rooftops" was put on (and according to the wiki, it was co-credited with Collins), whereas Tony Banks has 3 solo credits ("One For The Vine", "All In A Mouse's Night", and "Afterglow"). Without having read a lot of the books and what not regarding the band's interpersonal history, I'm sure there was some tension between Hackett and Banks at the time. One telling sign was that Hackett had Collins and Rutherford play on his first solo album, but NOT Banks, so it's possible that Hackett was just fed up with the amount of Banks material the band decided would be on W&W

Luckily, I don't pay much mind to the "eras" of Genesis music in the grand scheme of things, and I love every album pretty much equally. I throw in all the 70's Gabriel stuff the 70's Collins stuff and the 80s stuff into one big playlist and enjoy, so it's definitely a treat digging up all these rarer tracks to add to the mix. Such a versatile and varied body of work!

I only pay attention to the "eras" of Genesis as a way to understand the history of the band, where they were and where they went, to see and hear the evolution of their performance and writing skills. But I agree, their work is very varied and versatile, and I feel the "prog" in all of their works (well, except their first album, and some of their last album).

-Marc.

[Stadler]

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).

From the wiki article on Please Don't Touch:

Hackett had previously released a solo album, Voyage of the Acolyte, while still a member of Genesis, but he was frustrated by the collaborative process of Genesis which left much of his creative work unreleased. He insisted that more of his material be included on their next album. Of the four songs he brought to the writing sessions, only one, "Blood on the Rooftops", was worked on and included on their next album. He wrote a song, "Please Don't Touch", that Genesis rehearsed but ended up setting aside, partly because the other members of the band did not want to use it. He also wrote a second song, "Hoping Love Will Last", that he felt was appropriate only for a female singer, which was something that the band could not use. A third song, "Inside and Out", was left off the album, but found its way to the EP Spot the Pigeon alongside two other songs written by other members that were also left off the album. Eventually, the track Wot Gorilla? was decided on as the last track on the first side of Wind and Wuthering, and this decision sealed Hackett's decision to leave Genesis. Hackett quit Genesis and began to record the album Please Don't Touch, using the rejected Genesis song as the title track.[3]

Seems like Hackett had a LOT of material for W&W, but only "Blood On The Rooftops" was put on (and according to the wiki, it was co-credited with Collins), whereas Tony Banks has 3 solo credits ("One For The Vine", "All In A Mouse's Night", and "Afterglow"). Without having read a lot of the books and what not regarding the band's interpersonal history, I'm sure there was some tension between Hackett and Banks at the time. One telling sign was that Hackett had Collins and Rutherford play on his first solo album, but NOT Banks, so it's possible that Hackett was just fed up with the amount of Banks material the band decided would be on W&W

Call me whack, but I'm in Tony's camp.   I'm not a huge fan of "Your Own Special Way" at all (one of my least favorite Genesis songs) but W&W is a top ten all time album for me, and frankly, from what I've heard, I'd rather hear All In A Mouse's Night or Wot Gorilla? than "Please Don't Touch" (as done by Genesis) or "Inside and Out" (though I love the ending of that).  Wot Gorilla? actually reprises, in different form, a motif from "One For The Vine", so it makes sense on the album, as does the "Slumbers" suite with "Afterglow".   YOSW is a Rutherford track, not a Banks track, so I think there's a good argument that the Banks material was just stronger and more appropriate for the album. 

[Orbert]

I read that the instrumentals "Unquiet Slumber for the Sleepers..." and "...in that Quiet Earth" were originally one piece.  The original title (just put the two together) is the last line of the book Wuthering Heights, which inspired the title of the album itself.  They decided to split it into two pieces so that Steve would have credit on more tracks.  They felt bad about not using much of his contributions, but the band had always used a democratic system wherein anybody could submit songs to be worked on by the band, and the band as a group would vote on which material they felt was strongest and/or best suited for the album.  Steve came up really short this time, so splitting one piece into two seems like literally throwing him a bone.

[The Letter M]

Call me whack, but I'm in Tony's camp.   I'm not a huge fan of "Your Own Special Way" at all (one of my least favorite Genesis songs) but W&W is a top ten all time album for me, and frankly, from what I've heard, I'd rather hear All In A Mouse's Night or Wot Gorilla? than "Please Don't Touch" (as done by Genesis) or "Inside and Out" (though I love the ending of that).  Wot Gorilla? actually reprises, in different form, a motif from "One For The Vine", so it makes sense on the album, as does the "Slumbers" suite with "Afterglow".   YOSW is a Rutherford track, not a Banks track, so I think there's a good argument that the Banks material was just stronger and more appropriate for the album.

Oh, definitely, "One For The Vine" and "Afterglow" are amazing tracks, don't get me wrong, but it was just unfortunate that Steve had to leave because he felt unrepresented on the album, despite how great his playing is. I'd be frustrated, too, especially if I had a lot of music I wanted to put out. Fortunately, he left the band and has been able to pursue his musical journey apart from Genesis, and I think both he and the band were happier for it - Steve got to do what he wanted to do, and Genesis moved on and became a huge stadium-filling pop-rock band. For what Steve DID get on W&W was pretty great, though, especially "Blood On The Rooftops". I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album.

Then again, Banks has always been the musical driving force of the band, from day one it seems. When one thinks of Genesis, the keyboards are usually one of the first things to come up after Peter and Phil's duties. From "The Cinema Show" to "Duke's Travels", Tony was always a musical force for Genesis, so it makes sense that he probably got a lot of his material onto albums.

I read that the instrumentals "Unquiet Slumber for the Sleepers..." and "...in that Quiet Earth" were originally one piece.  The original title (just put the two together) is the last line of the book Wuthering Heights, which inspired the title of the album itself.  They decided to split it into two pieces so that Steve would have credit on more tracks.  They felt bad about not using much of his contributions, but the band had always used a democratic system wherein anybody could submit songs to be worked on by the band, and the band as a group would vote on which material they felt was strongest and/or best suited for the album.  Steve came up really short this time, so splitting one piece into two seems like literally throwing him a bone.

I do remember reading about this a long time ago, splitting the track into two to give Steve another album credit. It's a nice gesture, but I guess maybe one could see it as a slap-in-the-face, or salt in the wound, saying "Hey, we didn't like your other stuff, but here, let's split this first minute off our instrumental and you can be credited to it!".

I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?

-Marc.

[Orbert]

Long ago and far away, I read a book called "I Know What I Like" by Armando Gallo (mostly known for his photography, but also a writer).  It chronicled Genesis at the time, which was the early 80's.  It was the definitive bio of the band at the time.  I borrowed it from a friend and absorbed everything I could from it in a week.  It was very good.

I believe that there was at least one updated version of it published later, but I don't remember when, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  But if there's one relatively recent, or even up through the 90's, I would get it.

[Zydar]

I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse, the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.

[Fritzinger]

I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?
I think the three weakest tracks on the album are Your Own Special Way, All In A Mouse's Night and Wot Gorilla, with the latter two definitely being better than the first one but none being really "bad". I guess, the album would have been cooler without Special Way and Wot Gorilla, but with the Please Don't Touch Suite (the whole 8 1/2 min thing). I also like Inside & Out, really cool instrumental part at the end, where Steve sounds a lot like Steve Howe!
So I think, Wind & Wuthering would have been a pretty good double album, too!

A
1. Eleventh Earl Of Mar
2. One For The Vine
3. You Own Special Way
B
4. Wot Gorilla
5. All In A Mouse's Night
6. Inside & Out
C
7. Please Don't Touch
8. Blood On The Rooftops
D
9. Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth
10. Afterflow

But then again, almost 20 mins of the album would have consisted of instrumental tracks.. Which Phil would have loved I'm sure

[Orbert]

I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.

[Stadler]

I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?
I think the three weakest tracks on the album are Your Own Special Way, All In A Mouse's Night and Wot Gorilla, with the latter two definitely being better than the first one but none being really "bad". I guess, the album would have been cooler without Special Way and Wot Gorilla, but with the Please Don't Touch Suite (the whole 8 1/2 min thing). I also like Inside & Out, really cool instrumental part at the end, where Steve sounds a lot like Steve Howe!
So I think, Wind & Wuthering would have been a pretty good double album, too!

A
1. Eleventh Earl Of Mar
2. One For The Vine
3. You Own Special Way
B
4. Wot Gorilla
5. All In A Mouse's Night
6. Inside & Out
C
7. Please Don't Touch
8. Blood On The Rooftops
D
9. Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth
10. Afterflow

But then again, almost 20 mins of the album would have consisted of instrumental tracks.. Which Phil would have loved I'm sure

Haha, well he later complained about having to sing about "bread bins" (a line in "AIAMN") so maybe you're right!  I will say, though; this was around the time he got interested in playing with Brand X, and I'm sorry, but I think he drums his tits off on this record.  He later apologized for "over playing", but I don't think so at all, and I tend to think that was him being self conscious when all the fans that knew him only from "I Missed Again" went back and tried to learn more about him and his discography. 

[The Letter M]

I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.

Correct - "Wot Gorilla?" does only reprise the one theme from "One For The Vine", but when I said "I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album", I meant with regards to the WHOLE album containing more songs with shared themes overall, rathern than just having the "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" being quoted at the end of "...In That Quiet Earth". Sticking "Wot Gorilla?" on the album gave it another reprise of a theme, meaning there was a bit more of that thematic reprisal going on, of which there was a lot on their previous album ("Squonk" quoting "Dance On A Volcano", and "Los Endos" quoting both of those, as well as "It's Yourself", which apparently also had the opening notes to "Mad Man Moon" on its original ending).

Of course, quoting the opening number near the end of the album wasn't only done on ATOTT and W&W, but also SEBTP and Duke, and honestly, all four of those albums are probably in my Top 5 Genesis albums, maybe Top 6. I've never really given too much thought about ranking their albums overall.

-Marc.

[Cyclopssss]

I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse, the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.

This book goes for € 69, - on my local retailer. Are you kidding me? Is that amount worth the purchase?

[Zydar]

I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse, the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.

This book goes for € 69, - on my local retailer. Are you kidding me? Is that amount worth the purchase?

Wow, that sounds expensive. Can't remember what I paid for it though.

[Cyclopssss]

I mean, how many pages is it? Are there a lot of photo's in there? I'm trying to explain why it would be so expensive.

[Orbert]

I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.

Correct - "Wot Gorilla?" does only reprise the one theme from "One For The Vine", but when I said "I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album", I meant with regards to the WHOLE album containing more songs with shared themes overall, rathern than just having the "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" being quoted at the end of "...In That Quiet Earth". Sticking "Wot Gorilla?" on the album gave it another reprise of a theme, meaning there was a bit more of that thematic reprisal going on, of which there was a lot on their previous album ("Squonk" quoting "Dance On A Volcano", and "Los Endos" quoting both of those, as well as "It's Yourself", which apparently also had the opening notes to "Mad Man Moon" on its original ending).

Ah, that makes sense.  Genesis did that a lot, as many bands did.

[Zydar]

I mean, how many pages is it? Are there a lot of photo's in there? I'm trying to explain why it would be so expensive.

Just checked, 400 pages and plenty of photos.

[ytserush]

Okay, true.  The louder parts aren't much louder than before, but some quieter parts are louder than they used to be, and some individual parts within the songs themselves have been tinkered with.  It's not all brickwalled or anything, but it's been fucked with for no reason other than Nick Davis felt like it.  I know, Tony Banks approved the final mixes.  They're official releases.  But these are not the original albums sounding clearer; they've been fucked with.

Sort of in the way that Vapor Trails Remixed was...  Band (Or band member....can't remember who now) signed off on them.

[Orbert]

Similar, yes, but I think it's safe to say that many people thought the original sound of Vapor Trails was pretty bad.  If they'd just fixed the sound issues without messing with the mix, it would have been nothing but a positive move.  But then it wouldn't have been Vapor Trails Remixed.  I guess Vapor Trail Remastered just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.

Still, with the Genesis boxes, the original mixes were freakin' masterpieces, and the sound was also very good to start with.  Production and engineering on Genesis albums is always great.  So in this case, it was a matter of messing with it just to mess with it.  There was no need to "fix" anything.

[PROGdrummer]

Speaking of books, has anyone read Phil's new autobiography "Not Dead Yet"?

Alot of interesting insight on his personal battles during his time with Genesis, especially during the early years and what it was like balancing Brand X and his solo career as well.

Im sure alot of details are probably repeated in other documentaries for the band but there's alot of great stories regarding backstage shenanigans and onstage mishaps.

[The Letter M]

So it's been about five years since the last one, but I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor over on the Polls & Survivors Forum side of DTF, but I wanted to gauge opinion and interest here regarding it before committing fully to it. Ideally, I'd love to see at least 10-12 participants throughout the whole thing, though I understand that some of their less-desirable albums will likely garner less than 6 or 7 votes, but I can be a little hopeful.

Basically, if there's enough interest here for fellow fans to play, then I'll get right on it. However, if it seems like it'll take awhile, then I may take my time on getting it set up.

-Marc.

[Zydar]

I'll be participating, at least for the majority of the albums.

[Fritzinger]

So it's been about five years since the last one, but I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor over on the Polls & Survivors Forum side of DTF, but I wanted to gauge opinion and interest here regarding it before committing fully to it. Ideally, I'd love to see at least 10-12 participants throughout the whole thing, though I understand that some of their less-desirable albums will likely garner less than 6 or 7 votes, but I can be a little hopeful.

Basically, if there's enough interest here for fellow fans to play, then I'll get right on it. However, if it seems like it'll take awhile, then I may take my time on getting it set up.

-Marc.

Not quite sure what you're about to do..

[Eldomm]

I'll be participating, at least for the majority of the albums.

[ytserush]

Similar, yes, but I think it's safe to say that many people thought the original sound of Vapor Trails was pretty bad.  If they'd just fixed the sound issues without messing with the mix, it would have been nothing but a positive move.  But then it wouldn't have been Vapor Trails Remixed.  I guess Vapor Trail Remastered just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.

Still, with the Genesis boxes, the original mixes were freakin' masterpieces, and the sound was also very good to start with.  Production and engineering on Genesis albums is always great.  So in this case, it was a matter of messing with it just to mess with it.  There was no need to "fix" anything.

It would have been positive if they made it sound better, but I'm not sure they did. It was kind of trade off with more negatives than positives.

I think they totally changed the vibe when it was remixed and ripped the balls off of it, but this is the Genesis thread so I'll stop there.

[Stadler]

If you believe what Steven Wilson said about the new Marillion Misplaced Childhood set, Davis HAD to do a new mix in order to make the new 5.1 mixes.   Whether he had to "fuck" with things or not is a different story, but while I'll keep the "Definitive Masters" I have, I don't have a problem with the new mixes.  I rarely listen to them anyway, in favor of the new 5.1 mixes.

As for a Survivor, I'm definitely in.

[Orbert]

I have no idea what Steven Wilson said regarding Misplaced Childhood, so why did Nick Davis HAVE to do a new mix on the Genesis 5.1's (and how is it relevant here)?

[Stadler]

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/interview/steven-wilson-on-creating-a-5-1-mix-of-marillions-misplaced-childhood/

He claims to have to make a new stereo mix as the first step to creating the 5.1 mix.  I'm not a "mixer", so I don't know if that is a requirement across the board, or just his way of working. 

[Orbert]

Hmm, interesting that he didn't really clarify exactly why he "had" to create the 2.0 mix before the 5.1.  With the Yes releases, it was part of the contract, but he didn't say why he did it with Misplaced Childhood.  He did say that he tried to get as close to the original 2.0 mix as possible, so my guess is that he prefers to do it that way.  Re-creating the 2.0 mix from the original multitracks would give him greater familiarity with the original tracks, and he can feel better prepared to create the 5.1 mixes.

Nick Davis may have gone through a similar thing with the Genesis remixes, but that's just conjecture based on conjecture.

[PROGdrummer]

So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit. 
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

[KevShmev]

So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit. 
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?

[PROGdrummer]

So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit. 
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/swremixes/posts/?ref=page_internal

I can't link the post directly, but in his post about the Marillion remixes he mentions not liking Genesis, only really liking Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel solo-stuff. But that's got to be the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. He has to love at least the first 4 albums.

[KevShmev]

The Watchmaker doesn't sound at all like The Cinema Show, hence the "Um, what?"  Oh, but wait, they both have an acoustic guitar, mellotron and flute!!!