Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[SoundscapeMN]

don't forget about Marscape!

[Orbert]

Is Phil on that album?  I didn't think he was.

Marscape was an early project by Robin Lumley and Jack Lancaster, who would later go on to form Brand X, the jazz-fusion band of which Phil Collins was a sometimes-member.  I like the album, actually, but I file it with Brand X, not with "Genesis-related" since it's related but once removed.


Edit: What??  John Goodsall and Phil Collins are on this album!  I had no idea.  Well, I guess it's a good thing I have it filed with Brand X because this is basically a Brand X album.  It's just kinda wacky that it's billed as a Lancaster/Lumley album.

[KevShmev]

Same with Steve Hackett.  I love his guitar work, but that's about it.  Most of the songs bore me, and I'm rarely impressed by the singers on his albums.  If he did a solo album of just guitar/instrumental stuff, I'd probably dig that.

Agreed.  From what I've heard, he has two stellar solo tunes:

Narnia (Steve Walsh on lead vocals)
Every Day (ridiculous guitar work in this one)

[Madman Shepherd]

Excellent opinions.  Thanks for giving me a few things to ponder.  Kind of sounds like Peter Gabriel might be where I focus for a while. 

BTW, I completely forgot Mike Rutherford had two solo albums before the Mechanics.  Anybody heard those?  They are hard to find but I found the second one on ebay for a nice price so that'll be coming in the mail soon. 

[Orbert]

Mike's first album, Smallcreep's Day, is said to be very good.  Not always prog, but good stuff anyway.  I've never been able to find a copy, and I'm not quite interested enough to spend a bunch on ordering and importing one.

I have his second album, Acting Very Strange.  I actually forgot about it until you mentioned it.  It's okay, not great.  Some fun, catchy stuff.  Not very proggy.  Everyone says that Smallcreep's Day is better, but again, I can't confirm that.

[Madman Shepherd]

Mike's first album, Smallcreep's Day, is said to be very good.  Not always prog, but good stuff anyway.  I've never been able to find a copy, and I'm not quite interested enough to spend a bunch on ordering and importing one.

I have his second album, Acting Very Strange.  I actually forgot about it until you mentioned it.  It's okay, not great.  Some fun, catchy stuff.  Not very proggy.  Everyone says that Smallcreep's Day is better, but again, I can't confirm that.

Thanks for the info.  Smallcreeps is definitely harder to find.  Only copies are going for upwards of 50 bucks.  Acting Very Strange I found for 20 bucks on ebay so I jumped on it because most other copies were 20 bucks more. 

[Stadler]

I'm a HUGE Genesis fan, one of my favorite bands of all time (Abacab and Wind and Wuthering are BOTH in my top album list of a any band ever, and the live "In The Cage Medley" is perhaps my favorite live song ever).    So I think I have some insight here:

Point blank:  I do not like the vocal work that Hackett, Banks and Rutherford did outside Genesis.  I don't know why that is, but the vocals on all three of their catalogues (with one exception:  the song Banks did with Fish) are very weak, in my opinion.

I do not mind "poppy" at all, so the first three Phil albums are among my favorites (he lost me when he turned into Phil Ochs or Sting; I don't care for his preachier work).    Essential:  Face Value, Hello I Must Be Going, and No Jacket Required (the pop hits, especially on NJR, can be tough, but the album tracks are STRONG).

I don't think Gabriel has put out a bad album (though everything since US has been spotty).   I think Dave is right about "Passion".   I think Peter straddles the line between "poppy" (or commercial) and progressive (in the true sense of the word) the best of all the members.  Essential:  Security, US, Passion.

Tony should only write lyrics for Phil or Peter to sing.  I know, harsh.  But his attempts to duplicate Phil, Mike and Peter's solo success don't work for me.   Essential:  A Curious Feeling, Sevens, Six...

I'm not a fan of Mike's solo stuff, or Hackett's.  I know, I know, Hackett's a guitar god, but honestly, I see where Banks was coming from for the most part.    Harsh, again, I know, but it's my opinion, and it's not like I think he sucks or anything, it's just that his songs aren't my cup of tea. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Verdict:  Smallcreep's Day is definitely the superior Rutherford album.  It's not a total prog fest but it is unique and catchy.  Acting Very Strange is much more mainstream 80s.  Not a bad album at all, but much less Genesis like. 

A while back I bought a couple Mike + Mechanics albums and really couldn't get into them.  I decided to listen to his first two solo albums in order and then the debut Mechanics album.  Wow.  Very different.  It got more mainstream as the albums went on.  I still couldn't get into the Mechanics album.  Especially after listening to Smallcreep's Day.

It's funny because Rutherford is probably my favorite genesis member as far as his contributions to that band tend to be my favorites.  I guess it's rare for people to bat at 1.000

[Orbert]

Wow, another thumbs-up for Smallcreep's Day.  I really need to find that album.

[Madman Shepherd]

Wow, another thumbs-up for Smallcreep's Day.  I really need to find that album.

It still sounds pretty 80s.  I've only listened to it 1 and 1/2 times so maybe I'm off base but it reminded me of Abacab in the sense that it is still proggy and a bit experimental, definitely has an 80s synth emphasis, but also very catchy. 

Acting Very Strange is a natural progression to more mainstream stuff so as you said you liked that one but didn't think it was great, I think you would definitely dig Smallcreep's Day. 

[ytserush]

Another opinion:

I stopped with Collin after Hello, I Must Be Going. But I also have his Big Band album and his R&B album.

Don't have any Banks or Rutherford.  Wait  I do have Banks' Still because Fish is on that one. Bankstatement is supposed to be pretty good and I think I listened to it once or twice but have no memory of what it sounds like.

Gabriel and Hackett take up the bulk of my Genesis solo listening. It's funny, Early Genesis really does nothing for met yet I love the work that Gabriel and Hackett have done solo (especially live)  Just listened to Momentum a few days ago actually.

[Stadler]

Those first three Collins records are on par with any three-album run of any solo artist, ever.   I think they get so maligned because of the singles (especially "You Can't Hurry Love", "One More Night" and "Sussudio".)  NJR is, when you get to the album tracks, STRONG. 

Honestly, I get that Hackett is a guitar god, and certainly he's done some impressive things, but I remember trying to get into his solo stuff back in the late '80's or so when I was really digging in to the entire Genesis family catalogue, and I just couldn't connect with it, I don't know why.

I just wish Phil did a better job on the remasters.  I'm a completest, and there are a LOT of b-sides that got left in the vault and I think that's a shame (though he was one of the members that kept tracks off the Genesis Archives set as well).   I don't get it; it's not like we haven't heard them already. 

[Kotowboy]

i didn't mind Genesis but the main thing I noticed about Phil's solo stuff is he puts way too many choruses in his songs.

Dance Into The Light being an obvious example.

[Nel]

I just wish Phil did a better job on the remasters.  I'm a completest, and there are a LOT of b-sides that got left in the vault and I think that's a shame (though he was one of the members that kept tracks off the Genesis Archives set as well).   I don't get it; it's not like we haven't heard them already.

Same here. I don't get what the point of doing all those rereleases was when everything wasn't being put out. Hell, Going Back's rerelease a compilation of itself with less tracks than the original release. No, Phil, no! That's not how you do that! You put out all the songs, including the ones from the original special edition! You don't take songs off and then fill the bonus disc with a concert no one asked for! Ugh! I only bought the thing to fill out the "Take A Look At Me Now" collector's box I got with the first two rereleases.

[Orbert]

But you get new pictures of his face.

[Nel]

Oh yeah, now I get that staring at me any time I take those albums out of the box. 

[Silent Man]

Regarding Smallcreep's Day, it's brilliant. I have the CD and the LP as well. It's very moody, as that 'Looking_slighty_melancholic_out_of_the_the_window' type of thing (if you know what I mean). Simon Phillips on drums, Anthony Phillips on keys. It says, Mike on guitars & basses, but I definately can hear some Anthony Phillips strumming as well. Some of the tracks have that distinct guitar tone that I love from the Genesis album '...And Then There Were Three..' (which is also very moody). I always admired Mike's guitar & bass work, he knows how to dial in a very distinct tone, as in 'We Can't Dance' f.ex.

'Acting Very Strange' is totally different. Mike does the vocals himself, and that's a TOTAL disaster.

Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.

[Stadler]

But you get new pictures of his face.

I kinda think he looks better now, honestly.  I like the new Face Value cover much more than the original. 

[Orbert]

See?  Totally worth the money.

[Madman Shepherd]

Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.

I'll take that into consideration.  I kinda figure that Hackett's music will click with me more at some point.  Usually that's how it is with prog.  I actually just listened to his first album again yesterday and my opinion remains the same.  Good stuff but I need to be in the right mood and I rarely am.  It's good enough to keep me wanting to seek out more though.

[Silent Man]

Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.

I'll take that into consideration.  I kinda figure that Hackett's music will click with me more at some point.  Usually that's how it is with prog.  I actually just listened to his first album again yesterday and my opinion remains the same.  Good stuff but I need to be in the right mood and I rarely am.  It's good enough to keep me wanting to seek out more though.

I'm with you there, I had the same feeling from time to time with his music. Maybe too much sort of circus sounds there, or the parts were not that interesting. The later albums have a more refined way of song writing, and better sonically too. These last 4 albums have been playing in my house for a month or two, and they're still awesome. I admit he has crazy ideas in the way he puts the songs together - but that's Hackett! He is quite his own and you can't compare him to anyone.

[ytserush]

I love most of Hackett's music but I can see why  people can't get into him though.

[PROGdrummer]

I just listened to Voyage of the Acolyte for the first time, and I'm simply in awe. I absolutely love that dreamy, ethereal sounding vibe in Genesis music (Opeth have captured that vibe perfectly as well; see Hours of Wealth).  And besides that, the more lively bits have an aggressive, energetic edge to them that would have beefed up Genesis' sound if they let him go all out like that, pushing them into almost a "70's metal" sound.

It's a shame that his contributions werent more appreciated during his time with Genesis, because I would have loved to hear a song like "Star of Sirius" on an album like Wind and Wuthering, more of that vibe with Collin's vocals. I'm going to have to dig deeper into Hackett's solo material for sure. Wow wow wow. 

[Fritzinger]

Wow there's a Genesis thread here 

I think both Smallcreep's Day and Voyage Of The Acolyte are Genesis albums that aren't labeled Genesis albums. The musical style of SCD fits very well between ATTW3 and Duke, while VOTA has that melancholy, lyrical, yet very proggy with a lot of instrumental rollercoasters (I hope you get what I mean).
I didn't find it hard to find, at least on vinyl. In the last 2 weeks alone I must have seen it at least 3 or 4 times in record stores, markets etc., for less than 8€.

Concerning the voices, I partly agree. Collins and Gabriel are both strong singers with unique voices, the others aren't. And unfortunately, neither are a lot of singers chosen by them to sing on their records. BUT, Hackett managed to use his voice pretty well on the last albums. Also I think, Wolflight is one of his strongest albums yet.

[Madman Shepherd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw&feature=share

Anybody seen this? 

Mike + the Mechanics reference in an episode of Portlandia. 

[Stadler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw&feature=share

Anybody seen this? 

Mike + the Mechanics reference in an episode of Portlandia.

I think I'm more surprised that someone watches Portlandia than I am that they reference M+TM.   

[Madman Shepherd]

Never watched it in my life.  Friend linked me to it. 



So anyone ever check out The Musical Box tribute band?  They pretty much recreate a Genesis show from the mid 70s identically.  Gonna check them out next month.  The guy that portrays Peter Gabriel sounds pretty spot on. 

[The Letter M]

Never watched it in my life.  Friend linked me to it. 



So anyone ever check out The Musical Box tribute band?  They pretty much recreate a Genesis show from the mid 70s identically.  Gonna check them out next month.  The guy that portrays Peter Gabriel sounds pretty spot on.

They've been touring for what feels like a decade or more now. I remember hearing about them back when I was first getting into prog in the mid 00's, and had thought about trying to go see them if they ever came close to me.

What Genesis tour are they doing these days? I've always wanted to catch their Lamb tour, especially since they used official film slides in their stage presentation, and a bunch of other stage props inspired by, or perhaps even directly from the original Lamb tour!

-Marc.

[Madman Shepherd]

Current one is Selling England by the Pound.  In select dates they are also doing "The Black Show."  I had no idea what this was so I looked it up and apparently when they took the show to the states, they wanted to scale it back for cost purposes.  They decided not just to make it more sparse, but to amp up the florescent makeup and black lights and do large portions of the show in darkness with just their glowing bodies to draw your attention. 

Sounds like The Musical Box doesn't do that show much so I bought tickets to that even though, like you said, the band uses actual slides from the Genesis shows and I'd like to see that too. 

[Stadler]

I just saw them for the first time about six months ago, in a "Black Show" presentation.  They're very good, and it's a gas to hear "Supper's Ready".    What I would do if I was you (and in all fairness, this was recommended to me by a massive Genesis fan and noted collector, one who even contributed materials for the recent box sets) is watch the Shepperton Studios film on that box set (the 5.1 sets that came out a couple years ago). 

I've heard critiques about the singer not "sounding" like Peter, but I found that he was close enough to help create the illusion.  He is WEIRD, though.  He does all the mannerisms, and all the tics, and all the intros, and it's jarring to watch (especially up close).  This is not like watching Dream Theater or the current Genesis in stadium mode.  The drummer when I saw them was AWESOME, the "Mike Rutherford" was AWESOME, the "Steve" was very good, and the "Tony" was good, but fucked up both the intro to Firth of Fifth and... I can't remember the other, but it was a "crescendo" moment and it was sort of anticlimactic to hear a muff.

For me, it's worth seeing, and I would go see it again, in a heartbeat, but for me, I probably won't until the Lamb show comes around again. 

[ytserush]

Are there any Genesis tributes that do sets from tours after Gabriel left?

[red barchetta]

The musical box is a band from Montreal.  I saw them a couple of times and they are really good.

[Madman Shepherd]

Musical Box toured once with the Trick of the Tail setlist and stage show.  I would kill to see that.

There are several other tribute acts and in fact, there was a Genesis Fan Festival just announced in Duluth, MN with several tribute acts and Brand X performing.  So far, ticket sales are slow and they have mentioned they might have to postpone the event.  I'm going to try to go even though Duluth is almost in Canada but I've never been to Lake Superior and there is a cool national park nearby among other stuff so it might be worth it.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/north-american-genesis-fan-festival-2017-music#/

[ytserush]

Musical Box toured once with the Trick of the Tail setlist and stage show.  I would kill to see that.

There are several other tribute acts and in fact, there was a Genesis Fan Festival just announced in Duluth, MN with several tribute acts and Brand X performing.  So far, ticket sales are slow and they have mentioned they might have to postpone the event.  I'm going to try to go even though Duluth is almost in Canada but I've never been to Lake Superior and there is a cool national park nearby among other stuff so it might be worth it.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/north-american-genesis-fan-festival-2017-music#/

I'd be up for a Trick Of The Tail set or any other ones up to about 1984.

[SoundscapeMN]

oops. sorry for the 2nd bump, but this topic is more recent/relevant.

For those who didn't see this, a very cool Illustrated video of Supper's Ready was made recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4HfFwVy-h0