Author Topic: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion  (Read 146212 times)

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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1120 on: July 25, 2020, 01:23:23 PM »
Ha...I'm not the only one who think 'Smallcreep's Day' is marvellous. Look at the comments on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lg6FYXVFdI

I still need to track down a copy of this. Have heard good things about it.

Good luck. It is going for 30 to 50 bucks on CD. Much cheaper on vinyl. I watched the listings like a hawk for a few months and got a copy for 20 bucks.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1121 on: July 25, 2020, 02:40:51 PM »
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫

Offline Silent Man

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1122 on: July 25, 2020, 03:16:08 PM »
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫

Why not check ot out on the YT link I posted earlier? The whole album is there, together with some words from the original singer, Noel McCalla.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1123 on: July 25, 2020, 07:19:27 PM »
Even a YouTube link, I'd want to specifically set aside some time to listen.  I want to give it my proper attention.  Don't worry, it'll happen.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1124 on: July 26, 2020, 12:10:29 AM »
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫

Why not check ot out on the YT link I posted earlier? The whole album is there, together with some words from the original singer, Noel McCalla.

Noel's voice is beyond amazing. Picked a few albums he does vocals on including his solo band and there's some good stuff there.

If he performed anything from the album live, I would consider flying to England for it, barring covid restrictions of course

Offline Silent Man

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1125 on: July 27, 2020, 04:28:22 AM »

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.

Then I looked it up on Wiki, and there's quite a story there. At the time of its release, the critics gave it a big thumbs down - 2 out of 5 stars or such. 'Rutherford is not able to write at least one memorable song'. LOL. Same when Duke came out, I remember the reviews from then, where they described Phil's drums as 'clattering' and Mike's basslines as 'overdone' or just 'too much'.

Can't help getting a bit angry about ignorant fools like these. Maybe they should stick with writing about Bon Jovi, Britney Spears or the likes..

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1126 on: July 27, 2020, 06:55:21 AM »
I'm listening now, finally, for the first time.  Wow!  This is really good.  I didn't realize that Anthony Phillips played keyboards as well.  He was the original guitarist for Genesis, of course.

In the comments, someone mentions that Mike is actively blocking the re-release of this album (on CD, presumably).  Does anyone know any more about that?  Is it because Mike didn't really feel like his solo albums were very good?  That's supposedly why he formed Mike + The Mechanics; because he felt that he did his best work in collaboration with others.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1127 on: July 27, 2020, 09:48:31 AM »

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.

Then I looked it up on Wiki, and there's quite a story there. At the time of its release, the critics gave it a big thumbs down - 2 out of 5 stars or such. 'Rutherford is not able to write at least one memorable song'. LOL. Same when Duke came out, I remember the reviews from then, where they described Phil's drums as 'clattering' and Mike's basslines as 'overdone' or just 'too much'.

Can't help getting a bit angry about ignorant fools like these. Maybe they should stick with writing about Bon Jovi, Britney Spears or the likes..

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.

I do think Rutherford’s style of bass playing is pretty unusual in the broader rock world. Not that there aren’t lots of great, creative bass players throughout rock, but the idea of being sort of aggressively melodic and not just rounding out chords and keeping the rhythm is probably lost on a lot of rock fans.

With Mike + The Mechanics and even later Genesis (not altogether of course), I do wonder if Rutherford just decided from a commercial/airplay standpoint that underplaying would be better received by the broader listening public and gave up on more complex bass lines? M+M was clearly engineered for radio success. Yet I’ve wondered why later in life after that style was no longer popular why he hasn’t felt the need to stretch himself out again playing wise. Not that I’ve heard a lot of later say Mike + The Mechanics, but what I have heard has been pretty vanilla adult contemporary stuff.

I will say I do really like the Living Years album. It’s not totally just a pop fest, though it is all pretty mainstream sounding (for that time). His playing is pretty tame on that one though.

I think it's sort of the other way around; Genesis didn't start as "100% prog", they started as a song-writing collective, and actually played the stuff just as an expedience to get their songwriting out there.   Gabriel left in '75 and has pursued a "song" existence almost exclusively ever since, and all three "main" members - Banks, Collins, Rutherford - have pursued the writing side of the equation almost exclusively since the band's "hibernation".  I think this is a way not of "abandoning" the crazy, but actually getting back to the roots and fine-tuning their craft.   I think it says something grand about the band that they have been able to be so successful at such a radical refocusing; no other true "prog" band has really been able to do that except in random instances. 

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1128 on: July 27, 2020, 10:07:18 AM »

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.


Well put! I have never been able to put it into words like that but it sums up my feelings perfectly.

Also, I totally forgot Anthony Phillips was on this. I bought his debut solo album a while back and couldn't really get into it. These last several months I gave some other albums of his a chance and it really hooked me.

I'm listening now, finally, for the first time.  Wow!  This is really good.  I didn't realize that Anthony Phillips played keyboards as well.  He was the original guitarist for Genesis, of course.

In the comments, someone mentions that Mike is actively blocking the re-release of this album (on CD, presumably).  Does anyone know any more about that?  Is it because Mike didn't really feel like his solo albums were very good?  That's supposedly why he formed Mike + The Mechanics; because he felt that he did his best work in collaboration with others.

I seem to remember an interview a few years ago where he entertained the idea of rereleasing it so I don't know if he is actively blocking it or just not interested enough to make any moves regarding it.


Offline Silent Man

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1129 on: July 27, 2020, 11:47:18 AM »

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.
 

I understand what you mean. But really, then all people who happens to like musical extravaganca are ignorant fools? In the extreme, if you had those same critics listen to Wagner's 'Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg', more than 5 hours of opera, how would their reviews be? 'Not one memorable song', 'too much', 'overdone' would be my guess. No, I just think that it's very unfortunate to have the wrong people writing reviews of music they don't understand, and never will understand. And we're not getting completely off track here, because I hear a lot of Wagner (and Bach) in Genesis' music. Anthony's playing on Smallcreep has a lot of Bach in it, f.ex.
..and while I'm getting off track, let me just mention Anthony's brilliant album from '77 'The Geese & The Ghost'. That album is REALLY nerdy, but also fascinating. I have a lot of his albums on vinyl, many of them contains endless noodling on guitars - but The Geese & The Ghost stands out.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1130 on: July 27, 2020, 12:22:35 PM »

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.
 

I understand what you mean. But really, then all people who happens to like musical extravaganca are ignorant fools? In the extreme, if you had those same critics listen to Wagner's 'Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg', more than 5 hours of opera, how would their reviews be? 'Not one memorable song', 'too much', 'overdone' would be my guess. No, I just think that it's very unfortunate to have the wrong people writing reviews of music they don't understand, and never will understand. And we're not getting completely off track here, because I hear a lot of Wagner (and Bach) in Genesis' music. Anthony's playing on Smallcreep has a lot of Bach in it, f.ex.
..and while I'm getting off track, let me just mention Anthony's brilliant album from '77 'The Geese & The Ghost'. That album is REALLY nerdy, but also fascinating. I have a lot of his albums on vinyl, many of them contains endless noodling on guitars - but The Geese & The Ghost stands out.

Well, no, I was just using the comparison you made (in good faith; I'm not criticizing you for it).   I see the same thing in this thread the other way; what's the difference between having a Bon Jovi or Britney fan critiquing Genesis, or a Genesis fan critiquing Bon Jovi or Britney?    One isn't "better"; we have our preferences and our areas of expertise.  We just like one thing more or less than another.   

Rick Beato sort of went down that rabbit hole on a video of his I just watched.   I agreed with some of it, but not all of it.  He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.   

Online HOF

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1131 on: July 27, 2020, 11:23:13 PM »

I do think Rutherford’s style of bass playing is pretty unusual in the broader rock world. Not that there aren’t lots of great, creative bass players throughout rock, but the idea of being sort of aggressively melodic and not just rounding out chords and keeping the rhythm is probably lost on a lot of rock fans.

With Mike + The Mechanics and even later Genesis (not altogether of course), I do wonder if Rutherford just decided from a commercial/airplay standpoint that underplaying would be better received by the broader listening public and gave up on more complex bass lines? M+M was clearly engineered for radio success. Yet I’ve wondered why later in life after that style was no longer popular why he hasn’t felt the need to stretch himself out again playing wise. Not that I’ve heard a lot of later say Mike + The Mechanics, but what I have heard has been pretty vanilla adult contemporary stuff.

I will say I do really like the Living Years album. It’s not totally just a pop fest, though it is all pretty mainstream sounding (for that time). His playing is pretty tame on that one though.

I think it's sort of the other way around; Genesis didn't start as "100% prog", they started as a song-writing collective, and actually played the stuff just as an expedience to get their songwriting out there.   Gabriel left in '75 and has pursued a "song" existence almost exclusively ever since, and all three "main" members - Banks, Collins, Rutherford - have pursued the writing side of the equation almost exclusively since the band's "hibernation".  I think this is a way not of "abandoning" the crazy, but actually getting back to the roots and fine-tuning their craft.   I think it says something grand about the band that they have been able to be so successful at such a radical refocusing; no other true "prog" band has really been able to do that except in random instances.

I can square the shift towards more streamlined songwriting with their roots as songwriting. It’s more that stylistically Rutherford’s playing really changed outside of Genesis (somewhat in Genesis but not as noticeably) whereas Phil was still wearing the drum hero hat to an extent as a solo artist, and Tony never stopped being Tony on his solo albums. But Mike just kind of decided not to scrap his repertoire of bass tricks all together. It’s not as if he hadn’t blended chops with hooks on some of the poppier Genesis tunes (Follow You, Follow Me; Misunderstanding; No Reply At All were all catchy pop songs with really cool bass lines). But for some reason he just dropped that playing style altogether after Genesis and as far as I can tell never went back to it.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1132 on: July 29, 2020, 05:39:54 PM »
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1133 on: July 30, 2020, 08:49:35 AM »
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)

Why do I disagree?  Because I think the notion of "programmed" in that way is ludicrous.   I think we - generally, humans - like what we like and seek more of it out.   Music goes in waves, and as we've seen from the 50's, the early 60's, the late 60's, the early 70's... you get it, music also follows culture and society to a degree.  It's no mystery why the Beatles made such an impact in our psyche less than two months following one of the most catastrophic events in American social history.   It's no mystery why Prog - the systematic breaking of the established rules - blossomed out of the late 60's.   It's no mystery why heavy metal and hard rock - as well as the "Laurel Canyon" scene, in it's own way - blossomed out of the bleakness of the early 70's and the morass that was Vietnam.  We can do this for any period you want to point at.

I think there's something to be said for music as "escapism", and there's something to be said as our society and culture becomes more complicated and confusing, you see a move toward more simplistic, emotionally driven music.   That's not a "programmed dumbing down" - which implies a proactive step driving the change - as much as it is a "reactive supply to meet demand".

The music industry is not a proactive driver; they are a reactive follower.   Look at any "trend":  the Beatles (again), prog, new wave, punk, grunge (especially grunge!), hair metal.    You get an initial innovator - not from the record companies but from creative artists - and then you get a wave of imitators and offshoots to capitalize on the trend.  Then the trend dies and off to the next thing.   If the record companies WERE so powerful as to "program" listeners, there would be no "one hit wonders".  There would be no "disco (or any other) crazes".   

Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1134 on: August 01, 2020, 09:16:34 AM »
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)

Why do I disagree?  Because I think the notion of "programmed" in that way is ludicrous.   I think we - generally, humans - like what we like and seek more of it out.   Music goes in waves, and as we've seen from the 50's, the early 60's, the late 60's, the early 70's... you get it, music also follows culture and society to a degree.  It's no mystery why the Beatles made such an impact in our psyche less than two months following one of the most catastrophic events in American social history.   It's no mystery why Prog - the systematic breaking of the established rules - blossomed out of the late 60's.   It's no mystery why heavy metal and hard rock - as well as the "Laurel Canyon" scene, in it's own way - blossomed out of the bleakness of the early 70's and the morass that was Vietnam.  We can do this for any period you want to point at.

I think there's something to be said for music as "escapism", and there's something to be said as our society and culture becomes more complicated and confusing, you see a move toward more simplistic, emotionally driven music.   That's not a "programmed dumbing down" - which implies a proactive step driving the change - as much as it is a "reactive supply to meet demand".

The music industry is not a proactive driver; they are a reactive follower.   Look at any "trend":  the Beatles (again), prog, new wave, punk, grunge (especially grunge!), hair metal.    You get an initial innovator - not from the record companies but from creative artists - and then you get a wave of imitators and offshoots to capitalize on the trend.  Then the trend dies and off to the next thing.   If the record companies WERE so powerful as to "program" listeners, there would be no "one hit wonders".  There would be no "disco (or any other) crazes".

Apologies for being vague. Kinda of agree with you on the "programmed" aspect. Less so on the "dumbed down" part of it although I don't see it as any kind of big picture organized effort.

Offline DTA

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1135 on: September 11, 2020, 04:56:31 PM »
Been on a Genesis kick lately...how incredible is One For The Vine?

I've also come to the realization that I really don't care for anything pre-Selling England...it meanders a bit too much for me and doesn't really hit the spot their more "focused" albums do. Hogweed and Harold are a lot of fun though.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1136 on: September 11, 2020, 10:54:35 PM »
One for the Vine is amazing, my favorite from that album and one of my favorites overall.  I have a sheet music book with the two '76 albums (A Trick of the Tale and Wind & Wuthering) and was frustrated -- but not surprised -- that those wonderful instrumental breaks weren't transcribed.  So I worked them up myself.  Spent hours in the piano room in my dorm hall, and eventually came up with a 10-minute performance piece, One for the Vine arranged for solo piano.  I still break it out once in a while, just to see if I can still play it, and practice it for the few times I get the opportunity to play it in public.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1137 on: September 12, 2020, 07:59:27 AM »
One of my favorite songs of all time, from one of my favorite albums of all time.   Wonderful. 

Orbert, I'd love to hear that sometime.  Is it on tape/video?

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1138 on: September 12, 2020, 08:37:41 AM »
I thought someone might ask about that.  I've only "performed" it a few times over the years, maybe 8 or ten times, and never in a situation where events were being recorded.  Well, a couple of times were actual public events (a thing for the mayor, and a big religious thing at the mosque downtown), but they didn't record the guy messing around on the piano beforehand.

Usually, I'm asked to provide the music for some kind of event, either alone or as part of an ensemble, and they ask if I/we can play something while people are coming in and getting seated, or as people are leaving.  That's when I whip it out (:omg:).  Since it starts so quietly, with just that Am riff, it sounds like I'm just noodling around, but once the verse starts, people paying attention might realize that I'm actually playing something structured.  Sometimes people even listen actively.  I've heard people gasp at the "Follow Me!" section (2:16 in the song) because I worked out a way to played the chords, bass, and the rising arpeggio line at the same time.  I was particularly proud of that, and felt that it was very important to include that in my arrangement.  Then there was the entire instrumental from 4:42 to 7:19.  All of that had to be worked out.  And of course the coda section starting at 8:20 (F# to Bb to E to B as only Tony Banks can do).  I don't know if I'd attempt it today, but back in college I was pretty fearless.  (That's when I worked out Firth of Fifth as well.)

I've had a few people recognize it and comment on it, which is cool.  One time we were setting up at a gig, and as usual I'd managed to be one of the first guys ready to go (despite having more equipment to set up than anyone except the drummer), so I was messing around with it, seeing what I could do with the synths and stuff, since I usually just play it solo piano.  My wife told me later that Nancy, our lead guitarist's wife, leaned over and asked her if that was Genesis.  Not really asking, more of an expression of disbelief.  She said she'd never heard anyone play One for the Vine before, and definitely didn't expect to hear it in a bar.  That was cool.

At the beginning of the lockdowns, people were posting videos of them playing music on the net.  I thought about doing one, but never did.  Sadly, the main reason is because our basement is a mess and there's no way to capture someone playing without also capturing the state of the basement.  Yes, my piano is in the basement; it's the only place in this tiny house where it could go.  It's been down here 20 years, and has kept remarkably good tune.  I figured I'd have to tune it once in a while, but it's never been necessary.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1139 on: September 12, 2020, 08:43:38 AM »
Been on a Genesis kick lately...how incredible is One For The Vine?

I've also come to the realization that I really don't care for anything pre-Selling England...it meanders a bit too much for me and doesn't really hit the spot their more "focused" albums do. Hogweed and Harold are a lot of fun though.

You know, after all the box sets came out (and the Gabriel ones came last), I realized I was really more excited by the Collins albums than the Gabriel ones. Before that I would have said the Gabriel area was stronger, but there is a certain charm in Collins’ voice and maybe a more lighthearted vibe with Banks being the dominant composer. So I also probably spend more time with the Selling England and beyond Genesis than what came before (though I almost never listen to The Lamb outside a few tracks).

But I do still think very highly of Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme. Foxtrot was my first Genesis album. I still love Supper’s Ready and that Watcher of the Skies intro will always get me. Also, Can-Utility is still one of my favorite Genesis songs.

On Nursery Cryme, I’ve always loved the two short, quiet tracks (For Absent Friends and Harlequin), and I think Seven Stones and Salmacis are also really great. I might be a little less excited by The Musical Box and Giant Hogweed than I once was, but those are still songs I think of fondly.

Although Trespass is one I usually enjoy when I hear it, I’ve just never spent much time with it. Hard to explain. Not sure if it’s because it’s missing Collins and Hackett or what. There are some great moments on it but I just almost never pull it out.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1140 on: September 12, 2020, 12:27:44 PM »
I love The Knife on Trespass (but then again, I much prefer the live version of it in 1973). I love all of Genesis' albums. They were instrumental in my upbringing and development. I'd listen to Trespass a lot more if it had had PC and Hacko on it already. Their great songwriting was always present though, even on Trespass.
"All my natural instincts are begging me to stop
But somehow I carry on, heading for the top
A physical absurdity, a tremendous mental game
Helping me understand exactly who I am"

Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1141 on: September 19, 2020, 02:55:42 PM »
Don't know if you can call this a Genesis kick, but I've been listening to Three Sides Live again for the last few days.

But then Genesis really doesn't start to happen for me until A Trick Of The Tail.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1142 on: September 19, 2020, 03:06:22 PM »
Don't know if you can call this a Genesis kick, but I've been listening to Three Sides Live again for the last few days.

But then Genesis really doesn't start to happen for me until A Trick Of The Tail.

I'm pretty similar. Most of my top Genesis songs occur from Trick onward, though there are some notable moments prior and I LOVE most of The Lamb album. I know there are a ton of great b-sides but I cannot find any of the archive albums for a decent price to get them.


You know, after all the box sets came out (and the Gabriel ones came last), I realized I was really more excited by the Collins albums than the Gabriel ones. Before that I would have said the Gabriel area was stronger, but there is a certain charm in Collins’ voice and maybe a more lighthearted vibe with Banks being the dominant composer. So I also probably spend more time with the Selling England and beyond Genesis than what came before (though I almost never listen to The Lamb outside a few tracks).

But I do still think very highly of Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme. Foxtrot was my first Genesis album. I still love Supper’s Ready and that Watcher of the Skies intro will always get me. Also, Can-Utility is still one of my favorite Genesis songs.

On Nursery Cryme, I’ve always loved the two short, quiet tracks (For Absent Friends and Harlequin), and I think Seven Stones and Salmacis are also really great. I might be a little less excited by The Musical Box and Giant Hogweed than I once was, but those are still songs I think of fondly.

Although Trespass is one I usually enjoy when I hear it, I’ve just never spent much time with it. Hard to explain. Not sure if it’s because it’s missing Collins and Hackett or what. There are some great moments on it but I just almost never pull it out.

I agree about Phil's voice. Collins' voice just sounds more pleasing to my ears, and while I think Pete sounds good, there's a raspy quality that doesn't translate well for me in a lot of the music. I also like the more atmospheric Banks of the latter years as opposed to the more typical prog-rock keyboardist stuff he did in the early days.

Trespass is one I really haven't given enough time to. I'm bingeing the entire Genesis catalog though, so maybe those earlier albums will finally sink in. Nursery Cryme is a lot more enjoyable to me than Foxtrot, with Supper's Ready being one of those "Essential Prog 101" songs that do absolutely nothing for me.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1143 on: September 19, 2020, 03:23:32 PM »
I’ve sometimes quipped that I prefer Collins Genesis over Gabriel Genesis, and Gabriel solo over Collins solo. Not that I don’t really like Collins’ solo stuff, but I think Gabriel really came into his own as an artist and also became a much better singer from PG 3 onward.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1144 on: September 19, 2020, 04:47:42 PM »
I’ve sometimes quipped that I prefer Collins Genesis over Gabriel Genesis, and Gabriel solo over Collins solo. Not that I don’t really like Collins’ solo stuff, but I think Gabriel really came into his own as an artist and also became a much better singer from PG 3 onward.

That's exactly me. Although I bailed on the Collins solo stuff for the most part after Hello, I Must Be Going while solo Gabriel has been a satisfying ride all the way through.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1145 on: September 21, 2020, 10:08:28 AM »
The solo stuff is weird for me.  I love the first three Collins' albums, then he veers mainstream (I think he got caught up in that whole Sting/Amnesty Int'l/REM vibe of the late 80's) and loses me.   I love the first four Gabriel albums, then he veers artiste (where his catalogue is an ever-changing, and ever-evolving living thing) and loses me.   Honestly, right now, I'm not all that jazzed for a solo album from EITHER of them, frankly.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1146 on: November 02, 2020, 10:26:10 AM »
If you want a three and a half hour discourse on the Phil Collins era of Genesis, this is a pretty good listen.

https://spiritofcecilia.com/2020/11/02/brad-birzer-talks-genesis/

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1147 on: November 02, 2020, 10:58:35 AM »
Me And Sarah Jane has been stuck in my head for 3 days. Randomly. I didn't even spin Abacab. Strange how songs do this to me sometimes.

Offline romdrums

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1148 on: November 02, 2020, 11:03:21 AM »
Me And Sarah Jane has been stuck in my head for 3 days. Randomly. I didn't even spin Abacab. Strange how songs do this to me sometimes.

That's one of my favorites from Abacab and Three Sides Live.  I really like how they don't repeat any sections, and I really like how they stitched it all together. 
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1149 on: November 02, 2020, 01:11:48 PM »
Yeah, it's an odd tune, in terms of structure.  No repeated sections, but instead it keeps changing and building, and when it gets to the end it still feels like a resolution, very much earned.  Great song.

Genesis had a few of them, although the closest I can think of off-hand are "Turn It On Again" and "It's Gonna Get Better" which both only have one chorus, right at the end, but have two verses each, so those would count as repeated sections.  "Me and Sarah Jane" might be the only one that's truly linear.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1150 on: November 02, 2020, 03:13:17 PM »
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1151 on: November 02, 2020, 03:31:12 PM »
Hard for me to imagine Genesis being harder to get into than KC. We're all different though.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1152 on: November 02, 2020, 03:56:39 PM »
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1153 on: November 02, 2020, 04:06:23 PM »
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.

True as this may be, it still strikes me (or at least it did when I was listening to the podcast I linked to above) how non-mainstream a lot of their popular songs were. Abacab, Mama, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, even No Son of Mine were all dark and gritty and unusual hit songs. They had their syrupy moments for sure that helped them catapult to pop stardom, but I don’t think they ever became a full on “pop” act.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 04:22:33 PM by HOF »

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #1154 on: November 02, 2020, 04:18:16 PM »
Good point, and it's the non-mainstream, often dark songs the kept me interested in them until the end.  I was a huge Genesis fan in the 70's and into the 80's, but started to lose interest towards the end ("the end" meaning We Can't Dance).  I guess it's unfair to imply that they went full-on pop, even they weren't full-on prog anymore.