Author Topic: The Great Debate (Read 12150 times)

Ultimetalhead · « **Reply #35 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:30:52 PM »

Awesome song. The only reason I think it gets voted off quickly in the SDOIT survivor is that all the other songs are just slightly better. The intro is a great build up, though it is dragged out slightly too much. The prechorus is astoundingly good. The chorus is

.

Quote from: petrucci07 on November 17, 2009, 01:05:55 PM

Really great song, with possibly JP's worst solo. I hate that solo, it almost ruins the song for me.

WTF

ZachyDou · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:35:01 PM »

Favorite off of Six Degrees, other than the title track. Love it.

Dublagent66 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:48:48 PM »

I like it a lot and no, people aren't retarded if they don't like it.

TheOutlawXanadu · « **Reply #38 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:56:34 PM »

Quote from: Perpetual Change on November 17, 2009, 12:56:28 PM

Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.

juice · « **Reply #39 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:27:03 PM »

Quote from: jcmistat on November 17, 2009, 12:25:05 AM

Everything about the song is

this

MykeHavoc · « **Reply #40 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:09:38 PM »

I'd like to clarify that although I find it to be a Tool ripoff, that doesn't mean I do not enjoy it. I do think it is a decent track.
I'm not all that huge of a Tool fan anyway, so its not as if I get offended by its similarities.
I do think the end drags on forever. It is a song that could benefit from a good edit.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #41 on:** November 17, 2009, 09:08:24 PM »

I used to hate the song, purely for the mismatch of lyrics to the awesome music, and the samples. But I actually don't mind the samples now, but I can still easily relate to those who think they drag forever.
Musically it's great though.

ZKX-2099 · « **Reply #42 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:04:13 PM »

I'm listening to it now. Awesome song.

One of my favorites.

Infinite Cactus · « **Reply #43 on:** November 18, 2009, 12:59:05 AM »

Love this song, its actually my favorite song on the album.

Shadoshi · « **Reply #44 on:** November 19, 2009, 05:42:05 PM »

Not only does it rip-off Tool, it also rips of Natural Science's main riff.

Still awesome though.

KevShmev · « **Reply #45 on:** November 19, 2009, 11:11:51 PM »

Good song; the least best on Disc 1, but still a good song. I love the long intro...that buildup is incredible. For some reason, though, I feel like this song never really climaxes the way it probably should have. I don't know if it is the chorus not being as good as everything else, or the song fading out the same way it faded in, instead of having a more fitting ending, but it seems like it is a song that has a lot of buildup, but you never really get the payoff. It is like drunk sex.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #46 on:** November 19, 2009, 11:49:54 PM »

I think it's definitely the fact it ends the way it begins. But I get the feeling it's supposed to end without reaching a peak. Sort of like being a period in time of a continuing issue, rather than a song with a definitive conclusion or climax, if that makes sense.

ariich · « **Reply #47 on:** November 20, 2009, 02:49:24 AM »

I dunno, I mean, it doesn't have the typical DT epic ending, but I love the way the ending works, and I think the song still gets pretty climactic at the "are you justified" and "life to save life" bits.

Shadoshi · « **Reply #48 on:** November 20, 2009, 04:59:59 AM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 19, 2009, 11:49:54 PM

I think it's definitely the fact it ends the way it begins. But I get the feeling it's supposed to end without reaching a peak. Sort of like being a period in time of a continuing issue, rather than a song with a definitive conclusion or climax, if that makes sense.

Um... 11:20-25? And then it slowly winds down afterwards. That's definitely the climax -> resolution. Musically speaking.

ZKX-2099 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 20, 2009, 06:26:15 AM »

The stem cell debate really hasn't ended yet... so I think the fade out kinda reflects that.

AcidLameLTE · « **Reply #50 on:** November 20, 2009, 07:06:19 AM »

ariich is the white coat hero.

I miss that DT wiki page

ariich · « **Reply #51 on:** November 20, 2009, 07:12:42 AM »

Quote from: acidrainlte on November 20, 2009, 07:06:19 AM

ariich is the white coat hero.

I miss that DT wiki page

Me too

Orbert · « **Reply #52 on:** November 20, 2009, 07:57:55 AM »

Quote from: ZKX-2099 on November 20, 2009, 06:26:15 AM

The stem cell debate really hasn't ended yet... so I think the fade out kinda reflects that.

Exactly. The song takes a look at both sides, then steps back out of the picture, and the debate goes on.

Shadoshi · « **Reply #53 on:** November 21, 2009, 05:09:01 AM »

I said musically speaking.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #54 on:** November 21, 2009, 06:41:12 AM »

I remember buying this when I was working half days while I was getting cancer treatments(Chemo). I didn't have to go to work till 11:30 am so I went to Best buy to get the album when the doors opened at 10am. This song on my way to work was the one that really grabbed me. I still love this song blasting in my car.

Orbert · « **Reply #55 on:** November 21, 2009, 11:26:37 AM »

Quote from: Shadoshi on November 21, 2009, 05:09:01 AM

I said musically speaking.

Musically there's a resolution of sorts, but it's not a strong one, and that's to reflect the subject matter. Or are you implying that the music and lyrics aren't tied together?

Shadoshi · « **Reply #56 on:** November 22, 2009, 03:25:29 AM »

Quote from: Orbert on November 21, 2009, 11:26:37 AM

Quote from: Shadoshi on November 21, 2009, 05:09:01 AM
I said musically speaking.

Musically there's a resolution of sorts, but it's not a strong one, and that's to reflect the subject matter. Or are you implying that the music and lyrics aren't tied together?

No, I was just trying to answer Blob with a more technical answer... but uh...

Orbert · « **Reply #57 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:21:51 AM »

Sorry, I've been posting a lot lately while less-than-sober. I don't remember half the shit I've posted lately.

Blind_FaithX · « **Reply #58 on:** November 22, 2009, 02:12:39 PM »

Quote from: TheOutlawXanadu on November 17, 2009, 05:56:34 PM

Quote from: Perpetual Change on November 17, 2009, 12:56:28 PM
Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.

rumborak · « **Reply #59 on:** November 22, 2009, 04:04:01 PM »

I for one am one of the people who think it's a less-than-stellar effort by DT.
The lyrics annoyed me from day one. There's really zero insight to be gleaned about the issue from them, and I always wondered whether the writer of the lyrics had even the slightest idea what stem cells are. Sadly, it also marked the first venture of DT writing lyrics about contemporary issues, and they kinda established the low watermark of quality they usually are.

But, that was all ok, until I heard the original Tool song. And that just pissed me off. Just like the solo of Trial of Tears pissed me off when I heard the original.

rumborak

Shadoshi · « **Reply #60 on:** November 22, 2009, 05:22:06 PM »

Quote from: rumborak on November 22, 2009, 04:04:01 PM

I for one am one of the people who think it's a less-than-stellar effort by DT.
The lyrics annoyed me from day one. There's really zero insight to be gleaned about the issue from them, and I always wondered whether the writer of the lyrics had even the slightest idea what stem cells are. Sadly, it also marked the first venture of DT writing lyrics about contemporary issues, and they kinda established the low watermark of quality they usually are.

But, that was all ok, until I heard the original Tool song. And that just pissed me off. Just like the solo of Trial of Tears pissed me off when I heard the original.

rumborak

Haven't heard Natural Science, I take it?

Zorander · « **Reply #61 on:** November 22, 2009, 05:53:23 PM »

I like the song, think it's great actually. I like the lyrics too, don't think the lyricist necessarily needs to have a phd in stem cell research or biology or anything to be able to relay the discussion through lyrics. Also, I don't care that JP doesn't take a stance for or against and I think it's perfectly ok to just project the discussion that was at the time to lyrics for an awesome song.. It might not give you a lot of technical insight, if that's what you'd prefer rumbo(?), but I think they do get to the core about why it's such a debated issue. You know, miracle potential vs sanctity of life. Both through the samples (for those who care to listen) and the main lyrics. Maybe I'm far off and JP is making some erronous statements or something, I'm not exactly an expert on stem cells so I couldn't say..

Anyway, I basically just think the lyrics sound cool and go well with the song, and that's the most important thing to me

I can tell it's Tool influenced, but I haven't listened to them enough that I can spot any clear rip-offs... Just like Cypher I think sometimes, ignorance is bliss

tnphelps · « **Reply #62 on:** November 28, 2009, 10:55:45 PM »

I really like this song. Took awhile to grow on me also. What is really cool at the end of the song with the samples, the pro stem cells samples are all coming out of the left speaker and the anti stem cells samples are coming out of the right speakers. Left vs Right. Libs vs Conservatives. Just another little trick DT put in the song. Very Cool.

Jamesman42 · « **Reply #63 on:** November 28, 2009, 11:03:00 PM »

Freaking love this song, probably in my top 20.

I am surprised it is getting this much love, tbh.

AwakeFromOctavarium · « **Reply #64 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:04:09 AM »

It used to be one of my fav songs also. I liked it along with Misunderstood, and I used to listen to both songs continuously, because there's a connection between two parts. Honestly, everything on the first disc were my favorite except Disappear.

I love the intro, where Portnoy does some cool drum beats.

Aramatheis · « **Reply #65 on:** March 24, 2011, 10:43:11 AM »

Quote from: Zydar on November 17, 2009, 12:33:24 AM

after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.

Same here

The Presence of Frenemies · « **Reply #66 on:** March 24, 2011, 01:10:38 PM »

It's certainly weird.

Not a fan of the spoken stuff in the intro or outro, nor the Tool-esque effects-laden vocals, and the SDoiT production is never really a strong point IMO. That said, the solo parts are great, and some of the stuff in the middle of the song is really cool too. Overall, I find it an enjoyable song, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of my list. DT's certainly done worse, but they've just as certainly done better. It's odd that so much experimentation resulted in a solidly average DT song, but that's the way I see it.

FretMuppet · « **Reply #67 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:06:29 PM »

I really like the experimentation

kiwiclapton · « **Reply #68 on:** March 24, 2011, 05:15:51 PM »

After Blind Faith, its my second favorite, I like the topic too.

Hal Incandenza · « **Reply #69 on:** March 24, 2011, 06:31:33 PM »

I like the song well enough, but it carries a lot of baggage for me, as I heard it in concert with my brother. Because we were polar opposites politically, the subject matter created a bit of awkwardness for us, which wouldn't be a big deal, except that concert was really the last thing we got to do together before he died.

So I really don't listen to it too much.

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Author Topic: The Great Debate (Read 12150 times)