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Author Topic: The Great Debate  (Read 12088 times)

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Offline jcmistat

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The Great Debate
« on: November 17, 2009, 12:25:05 AM »
It has become one of my favorite songs. I used to only listen to The Glass Prison on the first disc of Six Degrees but not anymore. TGD is way better! I love MP's slow intro on the drums the way the whole song just flows. One of Petrucci's best solos as well. Everything about the song is :metal

What's everyone's thought on this song? How does it rank? Over or underrated?

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Offline tri.ad

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 12:28:45 AM »
It's a great song. The problem is, all the other songs on the first disc of SDOIT are. :hat
Anyway, I love the atmosphere the song creates. And the instrumental section is very cool as well.
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Offline Zydar

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 12:33:24 AM »
At first I didn't care for this one at all, but then after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 12:44:14 AM »
It's really cool, LaBrie is amazing here.  :metal
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Offline Phantasmatron

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 12:52:04 AM »
Quote from: Zydar on November 17, 2009, 12:33:24 AM
At first I didn't care for this one at all, but then after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.

Same thing happened to me.  I remember having my DT playlist on shuffle while playing Unreal Tournament one night, when suddenly I felt this chill go down my spine during the intro.

And then "LIFE TO SAVE LIFE" was an eargasm.

Fantastic song, but a bit of a grower.
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Offline Shadoshi

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 02:23:04 AM »
This song gets way more shit than it deserves. Putting aside its obscure subject matter, the music here is really nice, and LaBrie is at his best since Awake on this song particularly. The introduction and outro are insane, and all of the music in the middle is well constructed and diverse. I love Jordan's ambient approach, and this song is arguably Mike's best performance in terms of technicality and creativity.
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Online ariich

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 05:04:09 AM »
This song seems to be a real fanbase-splitter. A number of us love it (it's one of my favourite DT songs), some like it, but some have a strong dislike for it, so it always goes out in the first round of the SDOIT survivor.

I think it's amazing anyway, great atmoshphere, great riffs and some great melodies. And the subject matter itself isn't necessarily great, but I really like the way JP presents it, giving both sides without ever forcing his own beliefs.
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Offline Edan the Man

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2009, 05:11:38 AM »
An excellent song, and one of my favorites. I will never understand why some people hate this song so much.
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Offline Space Invader

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 08:35:45 AM »
Quote from: Edan the Man on November 17, 2009, 05:11:38 AM
An excellent song, and one of my favorites. I will never understand why some people hate this song so much.

This. A fantastic song. A little cheesy, but with feeling and power.

"Are you justified?"  :metal
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 08:45:59 AM »
As a finished work, very cool.  The song itself is great, but the soundbyte barrage at the beginning has no replay value for me.  I understand that it sets up "the great debate" and is relevant blah blah blah, but I hate listening to people blab in real life; why would I want to listen to it on an song?  SHUT THE FUCK UP, THE MUSIC IS STARTING!
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Offline MykeHavoc

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 08:51:31 AM »
I enjoy it, but there's no doubting that it's the biggest Tool-ripoff ever recorded.
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Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 09:38:47 AM »
Top 3 song for me, below Metropolis and Octavarium.
It's got in it all the things that makes DT great, yet it feels vastly different from anything else they've put out. It takes a lot to stand out on 6DOIT, but The Great Debate shines above them all.
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Offline Gorille85

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 09:54:27 AM »
Great song, too often overlooked given the awesomeness of SDOIT disc 1.
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Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 09:55:06 AM »
This was the first song on the first disc I really got into. TGP didn't really click with me til much later.
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Offline sonatafanica

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 09:56:08 AM »
I loved it at first listen. Definitely an awesome tune.
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Offline Scurvy!Dreams

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2009, 09:56:40 AM »
Worst DT song. Looong drawn out intro made infinitely worse by the constant babbling of the samples. Ridiculous robot voice production. Silly overdramatic lyrics that refuse to take a stand.

I don't know what else, I haven't listened to it in at least 2 years. The meat of the song isn't even that bad, it's just the most excruciating thing to try and listen to.
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Offline Zook

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2009, 10:04:51 AM »
About the Tool ripoff, they had Aenima with them in the studio along with a bunch of other albums. As for the song, I dont care about the obvious Tool homage, I love me some Great Debate :metal
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Offline Blind_FaithX

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2009, 10:14:03 AM »
I don't like that song. Rarely listen to it. It doesn't have anything special and it's way too long.

EDIT: I've just listened to the song again. It's been a while. I think the "Turn to the light" chorus has a lot of potential. It's pretty good. But the rest is just really long and bowring for me. It's probably the worst intro to a song the band has done.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 10:57:53 AM by Blind_FaithX »
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Offline Edan the Man

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2009, 11:20:37 AM »
??? I think the intro is awesome, it builds up to the song in a really cool way. Definately superior to the similar styled intro in SS.
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Online ariich

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2009, 11:29:33 AM »
Yeah the buildup in the intro is one the great things about the song! :)
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Offline Scurvy!Dreams

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2009, 11:30:57 AM »
It would be if it didn't last for 5 minutes and have a bunch of people talking over it.
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Offline Zook

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2009, 11:33:05 AM »
I made a 9:29 edit of the song where the main riff comes in right before the samples start. For the end, I put the Tool riff that's before the second verse after the main riff before the samples start up again. Make sense? It's not perfect, but it works nicely for the sample haters... At least that's what I'd assume.
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Offline Blind_FaithX

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2009, 11:36:46 AM »
Quote from: Scurvy!Dreams on November 17, 2009, 11:30:57 AM
It would be if it didn't last for 5 minutes and have a bunch of people talking over it.

Exactly
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Offline Mladen

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2009, 11:53:22 AM »
Quote from: MykeHavoc on November 17, 2009, 08:51:31 AM
I enjoy it, but there's no doubting that it's the biggest Tool-ripoff ever recorded.
I prefer to call it a Tool influenced song.  :biggrin:
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Online ariich

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2009, 12:01:55 PM »
Yeah the Tool influence is very noticable, but in no way would I call the song a rip-off.

And I've never had a problem with samples in songs. Guess that's a personal taste thing, but I feel they add a lot to this particular song.
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Offline Edan the Man

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2009, 12:04:07 PM »
^ That.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2009, 12:18:25 PM »
Incredible song.  I really can't come up with a single thing about it that I don't like.  I lot of people don't like it.  But then again, a lot of people are retarded.  :biggrin:
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Offline Marvellous G

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2009, 12:38:57 PM »
I do loooove the song a very great deal, but think the samples drag after the first few listens and they could achieve the same kind of buildup in less time. The 'life to save life' bits are worth any buildup though, I wish they used them more.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 12:54:34 PM by bösk1 »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2009, 12:53:48 PM »
Quote from: Marvellous G on November 17, 2009, 12:38:57 PM
I'm sure it's against forum rules...

You are correct.  And if you are sure it is against hte forum rules, why would you post it and risk getting yourself banned?  Don't do that again.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 12:56:28 PM »
Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that.  Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.
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Offline Phantasmatron

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2009, 01:00:16 PM »
Quote from: ariich on November 17, 2009, 12:01:55 PM
And I've never had a problem with samples in songs. Guess that's a personal taste thing, but I feel they add a lot to this particular song.

The samples help build the intensity in the intro, IMO.  But they don't really get in the way, because as soon as the intro is over and that riff comes in, the samples shut the hell up and let the song get down to business.

If anything, I think The Great Debate might be an example of how to use samples well.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2009, 01:05:36 PM »
One of the songs my friend used to get me into DT after Scenes and Octavarium.  Great song that doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets.
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Offline petrucci07

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2009, 01:05:55 PM »
Really great song, with possibly JP's worst solo. I hate that solo, it almost ruins the song for me.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2009, 01:10:21 PM »
I really love the samples in this song, as well as those in Honor Thy Father.  I wonder why DT hasn't done anything like it recently?  Then again, their past few albums have been very live-oriented.
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Offline jcmistat

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Re: The Great Debate
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2009, 01:25:26 PM »
Quote from: Perpetual Change on November 17, 2009, 12:56:28 PM
Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that.  Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.

That's funny I love this song but I dislike Tool.
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