The Savatage Thread

[goo-goo]

The Savatage FB posted a message like a week or two ago.

"Hey Everyone, it's been a while, we have some exciting things we are putting together. Got any cool memories laying around? Setlists? Pictures from tours?!"

So not sure what they will be releasing or doing. Hope is not a reissue campaign. Would love to see the an official release from the Wacken Festival both video and audio.

[Mister Gold]

The Savatage FB posted a message like a week or two ago.

"Hey Everyone, it's been a while, we have some exciting things we are putting together. Got any cool memories laying around? Setlists? Pictures from tours?!"

So not sure what they will be releasing or doing. Hope is not a reissue campaign. Would love to see the an official release from the Wacken Festival both video and audio.

That would be fantastic. At this point, I doubt we'll ever see a new Savatage album, but it'd certainly be great for them to release the reunion show finally. Plus it's high time that Ghost in the Ruins, Live Japan '94 and Poets & Madmen be released on iTunes. Baffles my mind that none of those releases are on there for purchase!

Also a side note... after listening to Handful of Rain a lot lately, I found myself curious about Alex Skolnick's experiences working on the album and his time in the band and why he didn't stick around longer despite being apparently a huge fan of Criss and the band. And in at least one interview I found, Alex mentioned that basically Jon and Paul had written most/all of Dead Winter Dead behind-the-scenes already after touring for Handful and were just waiting for him to come in again to do solos, leading Alex to decide to move on as he'd rather have a voice contributing to the music.

Obviously it all is what it is and the Caffery/Pitrelli era is incredible too... but now I can't help but wonder what 'Tage could have done next after Handful if Jon and Paul had let Alex into their circle for the songwriting? It definitely would've been drastically different from DWD/Wake/P&M, but I think it could've been something special in its own right. Probably would've resulted in something more similar overall to the sound found on Edge and Handful (blues and jazz-influenced, more guitar driven). Either way, we'll never know now.

[SoundscapeMN]

I thought I read or heard an interview with Alex Skolnick not that long ago about his experience with Savatage. If I find it, I'll have to pass a link along.

[The Dark Master]

Concerning Alex not staying in Savatage it was probably this interview that Soundscape was talking about: https://www.goldminemag.com/features/jazz-alex-skolnick-true-identity

(Bolded emphasis mine)

Goldmine: After Testament you recorded with Savatage and later the band that evolved from it, Trans-Siberian Orchestra (TSO). What can you tell us about those experiences?
Skolnick: Savatage was a very bittersweet situation. On the one hand I got to do an album with a band that I liked in high school. The flipside is that the gig came about because of a tragedy: Savatage guitarist Criss Oliva had passed away in 1993. That was around the time that I had left my band, Testament, because things hadn’t been working out, and I found playing with Savatage appealing. It was like, ‘Hey, why not?’ Then again, I knew I was heading in a different direction from the band, but I just didn’t know where. For some reason, joining Savatage just didn’t feel right. I’m not sure why that is. It’s a little like our conversation earlier -- who knows why things happen? It wasn’t one particular thing. Maybe I felt I needed to … be one of the main creative voices in the band. If I had stayed with Savatage I wouldn’t have been.

And that fits in generally with everything I've ever read or heard about Alex's time in Savatage.  He loved the band and enjoyed playing with them, but he was also very much a creative leader type of personality and it was clear that Savatage was Jon and Paul's baby.  Ultimately, by the time they got to Poets and Madmen it seemed that Caffery had become the de-facto third member of the creative team, but my understanding is that he was very much third behind Jon and Paul, and there were rumors that a lot of his contributions for the album were rejected.  While I'm sure the loss of Criss would have have made it difficult for another guitarist to ever be accepted as an equal songwriter with Jon and Paul in any case, I also think the general stylistic evolution of Savatage and the success the band achieved with TSO in the States and DWD/TWOM overseas may have made Jon and Paul a bit reluctant to return to a more metal style of music, and the fact that even in Europe P&M didn't receive the same praise as DWD/TWOM certainly didn't help matters much.

[bl5150]

Ironically on plenty of recent Testament material Alex has contributed little more than solos.  I would've liked him to stay around a bit longer too.

[jjrock88]

A rare update in the Savatage thread immediately means a return of the Dark Master! 

[Mister Gold]

Concerning Alex not staying in Savatage it was probably this interview that Soundscape was talking about: https://www.goldminemag.com/features/jazz-alex-skolnick-true-identity

(Bolded emphasis mine)

Goldmine: After Testament you recorded with Savatage and later the band that evolved from it, Trans-Siberian Orchestra (TSO). What can you tell us about those experiences?
Skolnick: Savatage was a very bittersweet situation. On the one hand I got to do an album with a band that I liked in high school. The flipside is that the gig came about because of a tragedy: Savatage guitarist Criss Oliva had passed away in 1993. That was around the time that I had left my band, Testament, because things hadn’t been working out, and I found playing with Savatage appealing. It was like, ‘Hey, why not?’ Then again, I knew I was heading in a different direction from the band, but I just didn’t know where. For some reason, joining Savatage just didn’t feel right. I’m not sure why that is. It’s a little like our conversation earlier -- who knows why things happen? It wasn’t one particular thing. Maybe I felt I needed to … be one of the main creative voices in the band. If I had stayed with Savatage I wouldn’t have been.

And that fits in generally with everything I've ever read or heard about Alex's time in Savatage.  He loved the band and enjoyed playing with them, but he was also very much a creative leader type of personality and it was clear that Savatage was Jon and Paul's baby.  Ultimately, by the time they got to Poets and Madmen it seemed that Caffery had become the de-facto third member of the creative team, but my understanding is that he was very much third behind Jon and Paul, and there were rumors that a lot of his contributions for the album were rejected.  While I'm sure the loss of Criss would have have made it difficult for another guitarist to ever be accepted as an equal songwriter with Jon and Paul in any case, I also think the general stylistic evolution of Savatage and the success the band achieved with TSO in the States and DWD/TWOM overseas may have made Jon and Paul a bit reluctant to return to a more metal style of music, and the fact that even in Europe P&M didn't receive the same praise as DWD/TWOM certainly didn't help matters much.

Mhmm! I can't speak for Soundscape, but aside from this interview, I actually found another recent-ish interview with Alex where he went into wayyyyyy more detail about his time with Savatage and Trans Siberian Orchestra and his reason for leaving 'Tage after Handful of Rain.

DR:  After the tour was over, you moved on from Savatage. Was there some consideration to staying?  Was there an offer to stay in the band?

AS:  I had a lot of things that I wanted to work on as an artist and staying in that situation just would not have been honest. I was actually open to it for a little bit but then it became clear that I was not going to be part of the creative process. During the tour, I really bonded with Jon.  He turned me on to these Deep Purple records that I hadn't been aware of and so many other classic rock records. I started brainstorming ideas about combining some of these classic rock influences and some of what influenced me growing up and I had some ideas about where we could go with the next Savatage record.  But then one day I get a phone call from Paul O'Neill; "Great News! Jon and I got inspired and wrote the whole record. It's done. We just need you to come down and record it."  He then read me the whole long Dead Winter Dead narrative over the phone with Sarajevo and a gargoyle [Laughs] - I loved Paul, but - I could tell that they were going to do to some great things with that record but this all just wasn't for me, so I respectfully declined.

http://www.musicandartinterviews.com/2018/01/alex-skolnick.html

It's a very interesting and extensive interview, for anyone interested in checking out the whole thing!

[wolfking]

I've always found it amazingly impressive that Jon did everything on HOF bar vocals and solos.  What a genius.

[ProfessorPeart]

I've always found it amazingly impressive that Jon did everything on HOF bar vocals and solos.  What a genius.

No doubt. I really miss Jon. I love all of the JOP records and his solo record. Hoping that we get at least one last hurrah out of him outside of TSO, but I also understand that life has been rough for him the last few years.

[wolfking]

I've always found it amazingly impressive that Jon did everything on HOF bar vocals and solos.  What a genius.

No doubt. I really miss Jon. I love all of the JOP records and his solo record. Hoping that we get at least one last hurrah out of him outside of TSO, but I also understand that life has been rough for him the last few years.

I thought he was trying to get himself un better shape.  I haven't kept up with where he is at though.

I really like all the JOP albums too.  Global Warning is excellent.

[ProfessorPeart]

Just looked at the JOP Facebook page and Chris Kinder posted an update last month. Didn't really have much info other than he says Jon is working on new material, but that's about it.

[wolfking]

Just looked at the JOP Facebook page and Chris Kinder posted an update last month. Didn't really have much info other than he says Jon is working on new material, but that's about it.

 

[Grappler]

If there is one band that I truly miss in this world, it's this one.   

[wolfking]

If there is one band that I truly miss in this world, it's this one.

So true.

[MirrorMask]

If there is one band that I truly miss in this world, it's this one.

So true.

Amen!

[Podaar]

Yeah, I agree.

Every time I see this thread bumped I mourn for all the potential lost.

[Mister Gold]

If there is one band that I truly miss in this world, it's this one.

So true.

Amen!

Yeah, I agree.

Every time I see this thread bumped I mourn for all the potential lost.

I couldn't agree more. It's heartbreaking. Breaks my heart that the band isn't around anymore really. I'm actually listening to an old expansive "rockumentary" radio interview with Jon from 2007 about the history of Savatage and it's really interesting to hear his perspective on the various periods of the band's "life."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSvlmVoHBfM

And while I think most of us would agree already, but the interview really reminded me just how much Jon Oliva truly is Savatage, more than any of the other members. And ironically Jon is quite humble about the matter!

[Podaar]

And while I think most of us would agree already, but the interview really reminded me just how much Jon Oliva truly is Savatage, more than any of the other members. And ironically Jon is quite humble about the matter!

Yeah, I'm grateful that O'Neill came into his life and influenced him, but Jon (and Criss) were always Savatage to me. It always rubbed me the wrong way about how much O'Neill wanted to take credit for Jon's work.

Yeah, Jon is humble.

[abydos]

Yeah, I agree.

Every time I see this thread bumped I mourn for all the potential lost.

Every time I see this thread bumped I think "Oh no, who died...".

[The Dark Master]

To be honest, in all the interviews I've seen or read, I don't recall Paul trying to take a lot of credit for Jon's work.  If anything, it seems that Jon is all too willing to give credit to Paul for making Savatage as great as it was, while Paul never stops praising Jon's genius and talents.  This is really apparent in the video interviews they did for the Wacken 2015 show, where they are constantly complimenting each other and talking about how the other guy is the true mastermind behind Savatage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCXxnUOfcSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzURoR13oYs

Ultimately, I think that they complimented each other perfectly and each brought something to Savatage that the other lacked.  Jon is an immensely talented multi-instrumentalist and one of the most brilliant songwriters in the history of rock, but I don't think he ever had a good idea for the "big picture" of how a Savatage album should sound.  If you listen to the pre-O'Neill records or the JOP records (which are basically Savatage albums in all but name), it's clear that Jon can write great songs as easily a bodily function but the records from the O'Neill-era clearly have a much more cohesive and well thought-out structure, not to mention amazing, if occasionally a bit obtuse, storylines (and, tellingly, Jon never attempted a rock opera without Paul).  By contrast Paul was a guy just bursting with awesome creative ideas and has the vision to know how to bring those dreams into reality, but it seems like he needed someone else with the musical and compositional talent to make it happen.

Really, I think one of the greatest gifts the metal gods ever granted us was getting those two minds together to make some of the best albums that have ever been released. Were it not for the untimely passing of Criss, we can only imagine how far Savatage may have gone with such genius at the helm.

[MirrorMask]

Really, I think one of the greatest gifts the metal gods ever granted us was getting those two minds together to make some of the best albums that have ever been released. Were it not for the untimely passing of Criss, we can only imagine how far Savatage may have gone with such genius at the helm.

Indeed, the band had so much potential and it could have been one of the giants of the genre by now. If I recall correctly, Jon was going to come back eventually to the band, and they would have had two singers, Criss obviously would have been one of the leading forces of the band.

Who knows if the more conceptual albums (Dead Winter and Magellan) would have been made anyway, which in turn would have put a question mark upon Trans Siberian Orchestra - usually bands die for lack of success, it's sad irony that the success Savatage deserved came in the form of a song released with the same name, but disguised under another band, and that other band grew so much that it made no longer sense for the Savatage guys to sweat it out in small clubs (at least in the USA) while they could make millions with TSO instead.....

[SoundscapeMN]

https://bravewords.com/news/jon-oliva-on-possibility-of-a-new-savatage-album-i-ve-been-writing-savatage-material-since-2003-all-i-can-say-is-it-s-very-possible?fbclid=IwAR1ZlI-JsMAOLDO6YVWd-_KpkUerqwWVFEORg6IRWr5HEGTz2rODLhBA-Uk

Oliva: "I’ve been very busy. We are working on the Romanov project. It’s very special to me because it’s the first thing that Paul O’Neill ever worked on outside of Savatage. We are making progress. It’s not an easy project because there are a lot of parts and a lot of great music. I have to be very meticulous. I’m being very bitchy about it because I want it to be perfect. Since the the Wacken show in 2015, Chris Caffery, Al Pitrelli, and myself have been trading song ideas for a possible Savatage thing. I’ve been writing Savatage material since 2003. I could do a quadruple double album if I wanted to. We are trading off things and looking at it. We are also looking at a Savatage live thing from Cologne Germany in 1997. We are putting it together for a livestream. I’ve been working on that. I had Al come down to Florida and we beefed it up just a little bit, mixed it. I think the fans will love it. If this Savatage album happens, we’ll make an official announcement. We have been working together, because we are all bored because of the pandemic. There’s nothing to do! So we are trading ideas through e-mail and over the phone. We’ll see what happens....I know I would love to do a Savatage album. Paul and I were talking about it before he died. We had a lot of meetings about it. All I can say is it’s very possible."

[wolfking]

A new Savatage album would be just too epic.  I hope it happens.

[ProfessorPeart]

Anything from Jon is welcome, be it a JOP album or Savatage. Heck, I loved his solo album. Been way too long without music from the man. Glad to see that he is active. That is encouraging.

[T-ski]

I feel like every couple of years we get teased about a new Savatage album.

[wolfking]

I feel like every couple of years we get teased about a new Savatage album.

We do.

[TAC]

Suckahs!

[wolfking]

Suckahs!

It gets me everytime though. 

[bl5150]

Lockdown and the resultant inability of TSO to tour might've been the key to making it happen finally.

[wolfking]

Lockdown and the resultant inability of TSO to tour might've been the key to making it happen finally.

Agree.  If not, then I don't think it will ever happen.

[abydos]

I'd love a quadruple album.

[kirksnosehair]

I'm not holding my breath for this, not after all the speculation we've had over the last, what, 20 years?


I'll believe it when I'm ripping the CD to my iPhone

[goo-goo]

Would love at least a proper recording of the Wacken live set.

[wolfking]

Put Poets and Madmen on in a the car.  Holy shit, I almost forgot how amazing this album is.

[kirksnosehair]

That's a masterpiece.  A rare 5-star album.