Author Topic: The Savatage Thread  (Read 103069 times)

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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #455 on: May 05, 2015, 10:05:07 PM »
I have Gutter Ballet in the car at the moment.  Man, almost forgot how fucking good this album is.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #456 on: May 05, 2015, 10:14:38 PM »
I have Gutter Ballet in the car at the moment.  Man, almost forgot how fucking good this album is.

 :hefdaddy    No 5 in my top 50 if memory serves correct. 
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #457 on: May 05, 2015, 10:42:55 PM »
Amazing album. Actually I think I'll listen to it soon

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #458 on: May 06, 2015, 05:50:38 AM »
Just solid from start to finish.  Mentally Yours is probably the only song that is dips in quality just a fraction, but that riff during the instrumental section makes up for it.

Summer's Rain is one of the most underrated ballads ever.  Always got overshadowed by WTCAG but just such a special song, amazing.  TS as a bonus track is killer too.

The Unholy is one of their best and most underrated songs.  Very dark and heavy with an excellent feel and atmosphere, amazing track.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #459 on: May 06, 2015, 06:00:29 AM »
Summer's Rain is definitely underrated. Gutter Ballet was the first Savatage release I ever bought. I heard a friend listening to Gutter Ballet and loved everything about that song.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #460 on: May 07, 2015, 10:38:05 AM »
Concerning that Return to Wacken release: pointless.  If they want to celebrate the band's previous appearances there in '98 and '02, why don't they release an album of live tracks from those shows?  As it is, this is just another psudo-"best-of" compilation, with nothing that can't be found on other records.  The only time releases like this are worth it for me is if they have something new or super rare.  Just putting a bunch of studio tracks from older albums on a record is lazy.  I'm sure it's partially a cash grab, but I think part of it too is just "We haven't done anything in 13 years, so what can we put out to promote this?" syndrome.  To be fair, this is probably more of a record label thing then something the band wanted to do, but that being the case, I'm sure they could have come up with something better then this.

Here's an idea: why don't you get the six guys together in the studio and record the 2 or 3 or however many songs that were cut from Poets and Madmen when Zak quit because Jon felt those songs didn't work with only himself?  Or what about re-recording some of the tracks that were cut from Streets that haven't been put out in some form or another yet?  (I've still never heard a complete version of Tonight I Would Be King).  Or why not just do a few new songs like Jon talked about a couple years ago since TSO spends so much time in the studio anyways? (although if at all possible, I would prefer they save any new material for a new full album)  A record of a few new songs, re-recorded lost stuff, and/or some live tracks from the previous Wacken shows would be awesome, and a hell of a lot better then this. 

As for Gutter Ballet, that is a fantastic record.  The title track is actually my favorite song the band has ever done.  While they dabbled a bit in new ideas on Mountain King, GB is, IMO, the record where they went from being just a really good heavy metal band to one of the best and most unique bands on the planet.  It was where the band really began to shine with ballads like When The Crowds Are Gone and Summer's Rain, and explored progressive influences a bit more deeply with tracks like Hounds.   If there is one weak track on there, I'd say it is She's In Love, although since Jon has said the song was basically a joke to poke fun at the misogamy that was rampant in hair metal at the time, I give it a pass.  I think the only issue with Mentally Yours is that the chorus is a bit repetitive, but the song is still great in other parts, especially the intro and the solo section.  Easily at least a 9/10 record for me.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:59:00 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #461 on: May 07, 2015, 03:24:22 PM »
Well said DM.  I think you're right, it probably is a record company thing, but yeah, a few good ideas there that could have been done.

I quite like She's in Love, has a nice pace.  It's definitely on the verge of filler but it's alright.  Would have been funny if they kept the original lyrics in.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #462 on: May 07, 2015, 06:21:26 PM »
No filler on the Gutter Ballet album in my opinion.

Fight for the Rock on the other hand......

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #463 on: May 07, 2015, 06:57:02 PM »
Yea, I definitely would not call anything on Gutter Ballet filler.  Not all the tracks are created equal, but all of them are certainly enjoyable.

As for FFTR, the two covers and the re-recorded Out On The Streets were absolutely filler.  Those should have been replaced with original songs, like The Message and No More Saturday Nights.  I also wish they had kept the original Fighting For Your Love (which is on one of the re-releases of Dungeons), as it's much better then the Crying version on the album.

There's still some cool stuff on that record, though.  Edge Of Midnight is one of my favourite pre-HOTMK Sava-tracks, and the title track and Hyde are both excellent.  She's Only Rock And Roll and Red Light Paradise aren't as great, but they're still solid early Savatage cuts.

I must say though, I've come to like the album version of Lady In Disguise more then the demo.  The demo was basically a repeat of Fighting/Crying For Your Love, while the final version on the album was a foretaste of their Broadway influenced songs like Gutter Ballet.  It was really cool of Jon to dust that song off for the Storytellers tour.

Speaking of which, I need to get my hands on those bootlegs Prog Snob was talking about.  I have some very fond memories of that tour...

Offline TAC

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #464 on: May 07, 2015, 07:08:33 PM »
I have Gutter Ballet in the car at the moment.  Man, almost forgot how fucking good this album is.

 :hefdaddy    No 5 in my top 50 if memory serves correct.
#5????
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Big Hath

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #465 on: May 07, 2015, 09:14:42 PM »
it was #4
Winger would be better!

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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #466 on: May 07, 2015, 09:39:17 PM »
#4, impressive ranking.

And no, I guess they aren't filler, as I have never skipped them but as TDM said, just not as equal.  I think it would be better though if Shuffle was in and Mentally was the bonus track.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #467 on: May 07, 2015, 11:05:10 PM »
Thanks for the clarification  :lol ..........I just checked back on my work and I originally had it #5 and switched it up a place at the last minute.

It is just that good Tim  :P
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #468 on: May 08, 2015, 01:13:50 AM »
Whats Tim doing in the Savatage thread anyway? lol

And I agree about Fighting for Your Love as compared to Crying; much better version.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #469 on: May 08, 2015, 04:52:30 AM »


Speaking of which, I need to get my hands on those bootlegs Prog Snob was talking about.  I have some very fond memories of that tour...

When I get home from work later, I'll upload them to my Google Drive and send a link to whoever wants them. I have two if I remember correctly. One is from Cleveland (or Cincinatti) and the other is from the New Jersey show. They are basically the same though as far as the actual show itself, but I think it's the Cleveland (or Cincinatti) show that has additional stuff like photos of the show and part of the soundcheck.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #470 on: July 12, 2015, 01:42:00 PM »
So Savatage/TSO have been rather quiet since the end of last years winter tour, doubtlessly focusing all their effort into finishing the new TSO album and planing the Wacken show at the end of this month.  Consequently, there hasn't been much news to report on the Sava-front.  However, I did stumble across this interview Zak did back in January that I somehow missed:  https://roadtometal.blogspot.com/2015/01/interview-zak-stevens-circle-ii-circle.html  There are some rather interesting things he has to say about his time in Savatage and the upcoming reunion at Wacken.

Quote
RtM:  It was announced this year that Savatage will make a special show at Wacken 2015! What was your reaction when realized that this reunion will happen? How were the negotiations? I believe that you are very happy with it, because i remember you  always demonstrated  the will that the band return to activities. Can you tell us a bit more about it, how will be this concert, set list, guests? Every Savatage fan in this world is dreaming with this concert now!!

Z: Well I understand the great buzz and excitement around the"reunuion" show and I absolutely expect to be there perfoming, of course.  When I first heard about it I was surprised it took this long for there to be a decision to have this concert.  Unfortunately We won't have any information about what is going to happen with the "reunion" until January.  So there are no further details on anything until then.  But all the guys in T.S.O. / Savatage are talking right now and we're just trying to make the Savatage "reunion" part of the T.S.O. show the best it can possibly be for all of the faithful Savatage fans that has have supported the band throughout all the years.


RtM: And Jon, surely he should have talked to you when the negotiations began to emerge? Did you feel that he is excited? Chris Caffery recently also commented that there is a possibility of something more than the Wacken concert? More shows? New album? Did you talk about something?

Z: Yes Jon and all the guys have spoken with me about the concert at Wacken.  Everything is still under negotiations at this time.  I am aware of Chris Caffery's comments on the "reunion" and Chris and I have always agreed on out feelings about Savatage and possible further activity.  So that doesn't surprise me in the least that he said that.  But then again Chris and I have been in agreement on that exact thing for years so we'll just have to see how Jon and Paul O'Neill feel about possibly continuing Savatage in the future.  After all they are the ones who make all of the decisions about the "reunion" and Savatage/T.S.O. business.

RtM: Jon said several times that Savatage ended up because not having a return in financial terms, and was one of the reasons that the band was stopping. Do you believe that a return of the band can now bring a different scenario? Also because I think that the work of Savatage, the legacy that the band is currently more recognized, and there are many new fans too.

Z: Of course I agree that the profile of Savatage has greatly increased because of the public knowledge that T.S.O. is actually basically a "re-configured" Savatage.  When I was in Savatage, it was a very lucrative enterprise for the most part and everyone in the band was paid well.  So of course the band could be an even more successful entity now that T.S.O. has raised its awareness and profile to a much a much higher level in the past few years.   During this period T.S.O. itself has raised the profile of my band CIIC to unheard of levels.  So from a business standpoint why wouldn't it do the same thing thing for the band it was formed from (Savatage)? 

RtM: Looking back, some years ago, would you tell us a little about your entry in Savatage, as was the beginning, your expectations, which hoped to accomplish with the band?

Z: Well you are talking about looking back about 20 years on this.  When I came into Savatage, I was a new inexperienced singer in the music business for the most part.  I learned much of what I know in the business from being in that band and also from watching the business transformation of the band into becoming T.S.O.  Of course I continued honing my writing and production skills in CIIC, but I owe it to all the players in Savatage for bringing me into the business and giving me a career that has spanned over 20 years.  My expectations were very high then and they continue to be high now.  It came down to my own personal drive and determination to make my career last this long and I believe the best times are yet to come from my career.

RtM: And when you left the band, including not participating in the latest album, "Poets and Madmens"? Today, you look back, feel regret not having participated in that album? What are the main reasons for your departure?

Z: No I don't feel any regrets whatsoever.  As you know these kinds of things happen every day in the music business.  I wouldn't trade the time I took out of Savatage to spend time with my family and at the time my newborn daughter (and later both of my daughters).  It was definitely a needed departure at the time.  Also at that same time we all knew that "Poets" was the final album for Savatage before the launch of T.S.O.  So in retrospect it was all done on good terms and the parting was very amicable.  All the guys in Savatage knew my situation at the time that I had to take that leave of absence.  That's why I have such a good relationship with all the Savatage and T.S.O. members and management to this very day.

Some very cool stuff, although I find it rather interesting that he says they basically knew at the time they did P&M that it would be the final Savatage album (which contradicts a lot of things Jon said at the time).  I suppose in retrospect, it was obvious with TSO become as big as it was that Savatage was on it's way out, but even so, I found that comment by Zak to be rather intriguing.

Also, for the CIIC fans, he talks quite a bit about their future plans in the full article, so you should definitely go check that out if you're interested.

Now, to just play the waiting game 'til Wacken...

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #471 on: July 12, 2015, 03:21:33 PM »
Has it been confirmed who will be taking part in the reunion?

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #472 on: July 12, 2015, 04:17:25 PM »
Last I heard, it's the full DWD/TWOM lineup.  As I noted above, the band has been rather tight-lipped about the whole thing since the beginning of the new year, but as far as I know, it's still going to be that lineup.  Obviously Jon's going to be there, and since it's following a TSO show, then Caffery, Middleton, Plate and Pitrelli are all guaranteed.  And that interview certainly makes it sound like Zak will be there as well.  Plus that's still their official lineup on Facebook/Myspace/Savatage.com.  So yeah, DWD/TWOM-era Savatage.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #473 on: July 12, 2015, 04:56:18 PM »
Sounds good. I'm hoping for a live cd of the show

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #474 on: July 12, 2015, 05:15:16 PM »
I'm hoping for a Blu-Ray.   :D  Honestly, at this point, Savatage is so overdue for a new anything, if they are going to do a reunion, they should do it in style.  A really sleek, high quality concert video/album would be a great way to reintroduce the band to a whole new generation of fans who aren't old enough to have seen them in their heyday.  I just hope Paul has the same thoughts on his mind and will be bringing some HD cameras to Wacken this year for the band's show.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #475 on: July 12, 2015, 05:17:26 PM »
Perfect lineup to reunite IMO.  Although wouldn't mind seeing Doc could make an appearance.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #476 on: July 12, 2015, 05:23:36 PM »
Hopefully Jon's got himself healthy or you may need a special widescreen edition to see anyone else .  He's a worry  :-\ .
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 05:29:21 PM by bl5150 »
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #477 on: July 12, 2015, 05:30:18 PM »
He said he was getting into shape for the Wacken show.  Caff said in an interview back in December that fans will be "blown away" when they see Jon take the stage. 

As for Doc, I honestly have no idea what he is up to these days, or if he would even be interested in a Savatage event now.  The last time he did anything Savatage related was back in 2004 for the Weapons of Mass Destruction show at ProgPowerUSA (he also performed on a few tracks on the first JOP album the same year.)  Doc seemed to loose interest in Savatage after Jon stepped down, and then especially after Chris' death (although, Jon has implied that if HOR had been more commercially successful, Doc may have come back to the band full time.)  At this point, though, who knows what, if any, interest he has remaining in Savatage.

Offline gazinwales

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #478 on: July 12, 2015, 06:17:21 PM »
All the major acts at Wacken are filmed by the event in house camera's already.
Usually there is a DVD of the Wacken shows with a couple of songs each artist/act.
So filming is no issue, it will be filmed, whether the whole show gets released is another matter entirely.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #479 on: July 12, 2015, 09:08:04 PM »
There is so many great full concerts that could be released from Wacken over the years.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #480 on: July 12, 2015, 09:52:47 PM »
I guess a lot of the shows never see the light of day and are never released

I'm confident this Savatage show will be released

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #481 on: July 13, 2015, 06:37:55 AM »
Yeah, it has to be.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #482 on: July 13, 2015, 08:43:16 AM »
A live recording of the show plus one or two new studio tracks. I would be content with that being the final release of the band if they are set against a full length album.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #483 on: July 13, 2015, 04:40:27 PM »
Yeah, that would be cool if they weren't gonna do another album.
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Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #484 on: July 31, 2015, 09:06:27 AM »
So the reunion we've been waiting for finally happened. Savatage live at Wacken! They also did a cool thing where they played Savatage / TSO across the two main stages.

Some Savatage videos below.

Gutter Ballet
Edge of Thorns
Jesus Saves

There are a ton more at Blabbermouth here if you want - Click it

It's cool to see all the guys healthy and in good shape too. Jon looks great.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #485 on: July 31, 2015, 09:13:36 AM »
Apparently Russell Allen also sang with TSO

What was really cool is that both Savatage and TSO performed some songs at THE SAME TIME and at a DIFFERENT STAGE. Hope this thing is released in full. Would love to hear the Savatage set!

Offline Art

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #486 on: July 31, 2015, 09:15:35 AM »
Awesome  :metal

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #487 on: July 31, 2015, 09:24:37 AM »
I'm screaming with joy. Please, Jon Oliva, do the smart thing: make a new Savatage studio album. Pleeeeeeeeease, I need for new Savatage! :hefdaddy
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #488 on: July 31, 2015, 11:26:16 AM »
It's awesome to see them like this with a full TSO style production - wow - and with Zak there too. I didn't see Johnny Lee in the vids I watched but apparently he was there.

According to Caffery I was supposed to be blown away by the great shape that Jon was in , but from what I could see (not much) I'm not sure about that.

Hopefully some pro footage will pop up shortly. If there's a DVD then I'll be all over it.

Top 5 band of all time for me ,so this is really great to see.

You there Tim? :lol
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #489 on: July 31, 2015, 11:27:48 AM »
Top 5 band of all time for me
You serious? With all of the music you have heard in your life?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol