Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (Star Three on the way)

[Stadler]

OK, just finished up..   



Chaos- Reminds me a bit of Steve Vai era Alcatrazz. Kind of Blackmoreish in some bits and Malmsteenish in others.. I'm liking this. We are off to a good start!

Dawn Of A Million Souls- I am on record that I find Russell Allen a bit cold, and I'm not a huge fan. But here he sounds amazing. I love this style of his singing. I am not on board with his more gruff style. This was an unexpected surprise. Thankfully Damian Wilson isn't singing leads though. He blows! This song is excellent. Even the keyboardy thing four minutes in is nicely orchestrated. Such tasteful vocals by Allen and playing by Romeo. I'd like Symphony X a lot more if they did it like this.

What's a TAC review without at least one "he BLOWS!"

Journey On The Waves Of Time- I'm also on record of not being a huge Ralf Scheepers guy either. But WTF, he sounds amazing here. I don't even mind the extended keyboard solo though. I like the unison with the guitar coming out of it. [/quote]

For me it was Russell Allen as well, but Arjen has a knack for using these vocalists in exactly the right way.  EXACTLY.   I think it was Chad that called me out on this during a roullette; "I thought you hated Russell Allen?" and I do, but his work with Ayreon and Star One (ESPECIALLY Star One) is stellar.   It's really good.   Too bad he doesn't sound like that on the other things I've heard by him.   "Take one to the FAAACCCCCEEEEE!"

[jingle.boy]

I'm curious to check his music out. But since I have a problem with The Astonishing, will I struggle with his music? Sounds like they have the same kind of 'style' - from your descriptions anyway.

I think it depends on what you dislike about The Astonishing. Is it the cheesy lyrics and heavy emphasis on story? If so, you'll probably have trouble with a lot of Ayreon. Is it the heavy reliance on piano-driven pieces? Then no, Ayreon is a totally different sound. Is it just the fact that it's a long album that has a lot of short tracks? Then probably not, since most Ayreon albums have a variety of track lengths.

To be fair, the lyrical translation of the story-telling in TA is beyond juvenile.  The ENTIRETY of it is as though it was written by a 6-year old.  Arjen has many cringe-worthy moments, but those are moments... not an entire fucking story.

[425]

I'm not sure I agree. I think Arjen has albums that are better lyrically than TA, but I think he also has albums that I'd call worse. And I'd say that whether you're talking about the story or the style. Maybe the way I'd put it, although I'm not too certain about this, is that TA is consistently pretty mediocre, while AAL has more moments that strike me as quite bad and moments that strike me as surprisingly good.

And not to defend the lyrics of TA, which I don't have any particularly affinity for, too much, but I'd really just say the whole thing sounds like it's written by someone writing their first sci-fi story. It's better than a six-year-old, but it doesn't come off as professional.

[KevShmev]

Not like I think The Astonishing is Shakespeare, but dogging its lyrics and then trying to act like Arjen's are good at all is quality comedy.  I'm an Ayreon fan, but let's get serious. 

[jingle.boy]

Look, it’s not like Arjun writes concepts like The Wall or Mindcrime, but at least he doesn’t write like he’s trying to describe a picture book - which is exactly what I hear when listening to TA.  Yes, there’s lots of cringe, but there’s also a lot that is very good storytelling.

[TAC]

Honestly, I didn't have an issue with the lyrics to The Astonishing or Flight Of The Migrator.

I think the lyrics to The X Aspect are quite moving.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't have a problem with either's lyrics at all...

I don't really place a big emphasis and concern for lyrics, and if they're the best poetry ever written. It's nice when the lyricist is a poet and can work wonders with words, but it's not like music is supposed to have these kind of lyrics...

It's a funny juxtaposition, when you get serious music with some funny ass cheesy lyrics. And a funny sounding song, with serious lyrics.

If JP was a great writer and a good lyricist. He would've just wrote the book for The Astonishing.

Arjen, gets away with it, because the music itself is silly. It's Sci-Fi, and that itself is cheesy.

People have high expectations for Dream Theater. That when they got The Astonishing, the not so good writing of the lyrics, was a downfall for it. Because of the high expectation of the lyrics for the seriousness of the concept.

I think the lyrics fit fine.

As The Astonishing is meant to be a dialogue. The lyrics are meant to be written as people would normally talk. It's not Shakespeare Dialogue. I relate it to how The Theory of Everything is written with regards to the Dialogue.

It's like a movie, The Theory of Everything is your Sci-Fi flick, while The Astonishing is your Pixar flick.

[Ben_Jamin]

I forgot to add to that some of the vocalists Arjen worked with only worked with him, if they got to write the lyrics.

Devin Townsend was one, so was Jonas Renske, although, Jonas Renske, said it was a good challenge for him as a lyricist to write for another persons concept. He did a fantastic job with his parts for his Forever character, you can feel that desperation in the lyrics, and is straight up Jonas Renske.

[KevShmev]

I will say his: I have a renewed love for The Human Equation after giving it two spins this week.  Definitely pretty great, and I have perhaps underrated it a tad over the years.

[jingle.boy]

I will say his: I have a renewed love for The Human Equation after giving it two spins this week.  Definitely pretty great, and I have perhaps underrated it a tad over the years.

I just listened to it last weekend, and it's still my #2 Album of All Time.  Love the concept, love the storytelling, and (imo) it's the album with the fewest amount of cringey lyrical moments - more than offset by some of his best lyrical stanzas.

[TAC]

I may do that one next. It has JLB right?

[IDontNotDoThings]

I may do that one next. It has JLB right?

Yes, he plays the main character.

Also featured are Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth), Devin Townsend, & some others I don't recognise but enjoy their performances anyway.

[KevShmev]

Marcela Bovio is a major highlight, especially when she sings the bridge in Day 13: Sign.  That is  .

[The Letter M]

I may do that one next. It has JLB right?

Yes, he plays the main character.

Also featured are Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth), Devin Townsend, & some others I don't recognise but enjoy their performances anyway.

Full cast list and musical personnel:
Vocalists
James LaBrie (Dream Theater) as Me
Mikael Åkerfeldt (Opeth, Bloodbath) as Fear
Eric Clayton (Saviour Machine) as Reason
Heather Findlay (ex-Mostly Autumn) as Love
Irene Jansen as Passion
Magnus Ekwall (The Quill) as Pride
Devon Graves (Deadsoul Tribe, Psychotic Waltz) as Agony
Arjen Anthony Lucassen as Best Friend
Marcela Bovio (Elfonía) as Wife
Mike Baker (Shadow Gallery) as Father
Devin Townsend (Strapping Young Lad) as Rage

Arjen Anthony Lucassen – all electric and acoustic guitars, bass guitars, mandolin, lap steel guitar, keyboards, synthesizers, Hammond
Ed Warby (Gorefest, Hail of Bullets) – all drums and percussion

Guest Soloists
Joost van den Broek (After Forever) – synthesizer solo on Day 2, spinet on Day 13
Martin Orford (IQ, Jadis) – synthesizer solo on Day 15
Ken Hensley (Uriah Heep) – Hammond solo on Day 16
Oliver Wakeman – synthesizer solo on Day 17

I've been listening to the live version, The Theater Equation, and I'm still amazed that so many of the original album cast were able to perform this live given how much time and effort was put in for just four shows! Might have to pull my artbook out and watch this concert tonight!

-Marc.

[ErHaO]

I have never minder Arjen's lyrics at all. It ain't high end literature (as subjective as that may be), but his lyrics serve their purpose. They are often quite literal, the characters state how they feel or what they are doing. And the vocalists and music get to express that information further to give it feeling.

A lot of times the characters behave/sound like what the archetype of that character would be. Jealous kid at school? You get the "so much cooler" part. Though I get some lyrics sound awkward at times. But hey, so do many real people when talking, which is one of the reasons why I do not necessarily need beautiful lyrics/writing in conversations, people do not talk in poetry or beatifully crafted speeches.

Now let's take a look at Avantasia's lyrics, for example, those read like they come from an a.i. or online fantasy lyrics generator at times. I don't know what the fuck is going on in most of those songs (actually, I don't know what is going on in any of them). Which I honestly do not mind either, because the whole rock opera/concept thing is not something that attracts me to Avantasia. But from my perspective, Arjen's lyrics usually succeed at what they are intended for.

[KevShmev]

I have never minder Arjen's lyrics at all. It ain't high end literature (as subjective as that may be), but his lyrics serve their purpose. They are often quite literal, the characters state how they feel or what they are doing. And the vocalists and music get to express that information further to give it feeling.

A lot of times the characters behave/sound like what the archetype of that character would be. Jealous kid at school? You get the "so much cooler" part. Though I get some lyrics sound awkward at times. But hey, so do many real people when talking, which is one of the reasons why I do not necessarily need beautiful lyrics/writing in conversations, people do not talk in poetry or beatifully crafted speeches.

Now let's take a look at Avantasia's lyrics, for example, those read like they come from an a.i. or online fantasy lyrics generator at times. I don't know what the fuck is going on in most of those songs (actually, I don't know what is going on in any of them). Which I honestly do not mind either, because the whole rock opera/concept thing is not something that attracts me to Avantasia. But from my perspective, Arjen's lyrics usually succeed at what they are intended for.

Is this the long version of basically saying that Arjen's lyrics are finger licking good?

[Ben_Jamin]

I have never minder Arjen's lyrics at all. It ain't high end literature (as subjective as that may be), but his lyrics serve their purpose. They are often quite literal, the characters state how they feel or what they are doing. And the vocalists and music get to express that information further to give it feeling.

A lot of times the characters behave/sound like what the archetype of that character would be. Jealous kid at school? You get the "so much cooler" part. Though I get some lyrics sound awkward at times. But hey, so do many real people when talking, which is one of the reasons why I do not necessarily need beautiful lyrics/writing in conversations, people do not talk in poetry or beatifully crafted speeches.

Now let's take a look at Avantasia's lyrics, for example, those read like they come from an a.i. or online fantasy lyrics generator at times. I don't know what the fuck is going on in most of those songs (actually, I don't know what is going on in any of them). Which I honestly do not mind either, because the whole rock opera/concept thing is not something that attracts me to Avantasia. But from my perspective, Arjen's lyrics usually succeed at what they are intended for.

Is this the long version of basically saying that Arjen's lyrics are finger licking good?

I know the truth is out there. 

[KevShmev]

A fresh listen of 01011001 tells me that this is Ayreon's Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.  It doesn't touch the top 3 (ITEC, Dream Sequencer, THE), but it is comfortably ahead of everything else for 4th place. 

It's a little top heavy in that the three best songs are the first three on Disc 1, but the whole thing is consistently good after that, some piss poor lyrics notwithstanding.  The Fifth Extinction is really good, but we needed that chorus again once or twice at the end.

The Theory of Everything is next...

[KevShmev]

I just gave TTOE a fresh spin last night and this morning, and it definitely holds up for me eight years later. I think even after the five-year wait after 01 and all the hype that came with it, it definitely lived up to my expectations. It's different enough from the other Ayreon albums but still carries that signature feel that Arjen is known for. Also, it features John Wetton, and although his part isn't incredibly big, he kills it on all of his vocal lines. I also just really like Tommy Karevik and Mike Mills here as well, and I'm glad Arjen has utilized them many times since then.

Well, I tried...

The Theory of Everything is still just one big mess to me.  Taking away the fact that there are too many herky-jerky transitions, making me think the whole thing sounds contrived, like, "Oh, I need to connect these all so I can say it is all long songs," the memorable vocal melodies, which are usually a strength with Ayreon, are lacking. Some good moments here and there, but I can't remember where most of them are, and far too often I was thinking that the music was the usual good Ayreon stuff, but it was all let down by both the lack of memorable melodies and the singers.  Like I said, I tried. *shrugs*

[Ben_Jamin]

I just gave TTOE a fresh spin last night and this morning, and it definitely holds up for me eight years later. I think even after the five-year wait after 01 and all the hype that came with it, it definitely lived up to my expectations. It's different enough from the other Ayreon albums but still carries that signature feel that Arjen is known for. Also, it features John Wetton, and although his part isn't incredibly big, he kills it on all of his vocal lines. I also just really like Tommy Karevik and Mike Mills here as well, and I'm glad Arjen has utilized them many times since then.

Well, I tried...

The Theory of Everything is still just one big mess to me.  Taking away the fact that there are too many herky-jerky transitions, making me think the whole thing sounds contrived, like, "Oh, I need to connect these all so I can say it is all long songs," the memorable vocal melodies, which are usually a strength with Ayreon, are lacking. Some good moments here and there, but I can't remember where most of them are, and far too often I was thinking that the music was the usual good Ayreon stuff, but it was all let down by both the lack of memorable melodies and the singers.  Like I said, I tried. *shrugs*

 

I don't even know the names to the actual track titles. I have the tracks on TToE, grouped into the Phases.

So my track 1 is Phase 1, and track 2 is Phase 2.

I had no choice but to group then together, because just 1 or 2 minutes is just too short of a track. I do wonder why he decided to split it up like that? Maybe, as a 4 track double album doesn't sound too pleasing?

Grouping the tracks made it a lot easier for me to listen to it as well. I don't even bother paying attention anymore to what the single tracks are called.

The way I have TToE set up, it's my 20-min, 4 track, Ayreon album.

Although I do wonder why, Mirror of Dreams starts Phase 4, when it flows better when it ends Phase 3. Starting at The Lighthouse, would be a better start to Phase 4.

[KevShmev]

I tried it that way years ago as well, thinking it would help, and it didn't.  I just have to accept that this album is mostly a huge miss for me and move on.  The Source is next...

[The Letter M]

I just gave TTOE a fresh spin last night and this morning, and it definitely holds up for me eight years later. I think even after the five-year wait after 01 and all the hype that came with it, it definitely lived up to my expectations. It's different enough from the other Ayreon albums but still carries that signature feel that Arjen is known for. Also, it features John Wetton, and although his part isn't incredibly big, he kills it on all of his vocal lines. I also just really like Tommy Karevik and Mike Mills here as well, and I'm glad Arjen has utilized them many times since then.

Well, I tried...

The Theory of Everything is still just one big mess to me.  Taking away the fact that there are too many herky-jerky transitions, making me think the whole thing sounds contrived, like, "Oh, I need to connect these all so I can say it is all long songs," the memorable vocal melodies, which are usually a strength with Ayreon, are lacking. Some good moments here and there, but I can't remember where most of them are, and far too often I was thinking that the music was the usual good Ayreon stuff, but it was all let down by both the lack of memorable melodies and the singers.  Like I said, I tried. *shrugs*

Ah well, at least you tried, and that's all I can ask for! Some Ayreon albums just aren't for everyone. I love TTOE, but then again, I've never truly warmed up to 01011001, which a lot of folks seem to love. I just think it drags on a bit and it all seems very same-y to me, not a lot of it is very memorable in my mind when I think about the album, not that I think it's horrible, and I enjoy listening to it, but it just doesn't stick with me after the fact. I think having 17 singers kind of makes it feel distant for me, so having the smaller cast of TTOE meant hearing them more often, and getting to know their characters more, so it sounds more like a solid concept album/rock opera than 01 does, which feels more like a compilation of different songs by different artists all mashed up into one album. I think the over-all story for 01 also just makes it feel like it's trying to tell a HUGE story, but I seem to enjoy Arjen's more personal stories with smaller casts like THE, TTOE, and Transitus.

...But that's just, like, my opinion, man. Different strokes for different folks. At least many of us can agree that ITEC and THE seem to be two of the better albums by Ayreon, and probably many fans' top two albums. It's no wonder, then, that both albums have been the first two that have been performed live in their entirety.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

The good news going into The Source is that I know that it has three songs I am really high on (note: The Day the World Breaks Down is not one of them, although I do think that song is pretty good), so I am hoping new shit comes to light regarding the rest and the album as a whole comes off a lot better than before.

[jingle.boy]

I'm Team Kev when it comes to TTOE.  I also spun it recently, and it just does very little for me.  The keyboard solos in-and-of-themselves on disc 1 are great, but in the context of the song, it's like Arjen simply wanted these three magnificent musicians contributing to the song, and sound shoe-horned into the composition.  Doesn't help that Wetton and JB do nothing for me vocally, and Scabbia is a poor woman's version of AVG.

Where 01 had too many vocalists, TTOE doesn't have enough great vocalists.

[KevShmev]

Even the Steve Hackett solo felt just kind of there.  It was nice, but felt shoehorned in.

Anyway, The Source is better, but still has a lot of material that just seems there.  I am still a big fan of the 3-song run of Everybody Dies (good cheesy fun), Star of Sirrah and All That Was.  I liked The Dream Dissolves just for that rad keyboard solo (which looks to have been played by the guy from Marillion; interesting).  The Day That the World Breaks Down is good, but I don't think it's this amazing all-time Ayreon track that apparently many fans do.  That said, it is still one of the best songs here, and the album feels pretty front-loaded as a result, especially with my favorites being tracks 3, 4 and 5.  Journey to Forever seemed notable as well. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I tried it that way years ago as well, thinking it would help, and it didn't.  I just have to accept that this album is mostly a huge miss for me and move on.  The Source is next...

Well, that's just unfortunate. 

I'm the same way though. I am now finding it a bit harder to listen to this album all the way through. It's why I also, split it into the Phases, as it's easier to listen to a section than the split up songs.

At least you tried and gave it another go.

I'll tell you when I first heard The Source, it was a nice refresher, from the track onslaught of The Source.

[Kwyjibo]

I'm Team Kev when it comes to TTOE.  I also spun it recently, and it just does very little for me.  The keyboard solos in-and-of-themselves on disc 1 are great, but in the context of the song, it's like Arjen simply wanted these three magnificent musicians contributing to the song, and sound shoe-horned into the composition.  Doesn't help that Wetton and JB do nothing for me vocally, and Scabbia is a poor woman's version of AVG.

Where 01 had too many vocalists, TTOE doesn't have enough great vocalists.

I think Wetton is great for the role he played and I'm really not a fan of AVG, so happy that she's not on that record.

TTOE is my second favorite after The Human Equation.

[ErHaO]

Scabbia and van Giersbergen sound nothing alike to me. And while I don't really know Scabbia outside of TTOE, she sings and sounds like an alto type of voice to my ears, which Anneke is not.

[Stadler]

I'm Team Kev when it comes to TTOE.  I also spun it recently, and it just does very little for me.  The keyboard solos in-and-of-themselves on disc 1 are great, but in the context of the song, it's like Arjen simply wanted these three magnificent musicians contributing to the song, and sound shoe-horned into the composition.  Doesn't help that Wetton and JB do nothing for me vocally, and Scabbia is a poor woman's version of AVG.

Where 01 had too many vocalists, TTOE doesn't have enough great vocalists.

I think Wetton is great for the role he played and I'm really not a fan of AVG, so happy that she's not on that record.

TTOE is my second favorite after The Human Equation.

Really?  I just re-watched the Addicted! portion of By A Thread and between that and her most recent solo record, she's just always on point.   Bend It Like Bender! is just...

[Kwyjibo]

She's not a bad singer, I just don't think she's that great and it seems that she's everywhere, so I'm glad that she's not on that particular record also. 

[KevShmev]

Finished up my Ayreon run-through.

Transitus is not good and pretty much totally forgettable.  Yowza.

[Cool Chris]

Reading AVG took me a minute. I was wondering why people were talking about anti-virus software.

Kev, final rankings?

I still have not listened to Transitus all the way though.

[KevShmev]

I'd probably go with this:

01 Into the Electric Castle
02 The Dream Sequencer
03 The Human Equation
04 01011001
05 The Final Experiment
06 Flight of the Migrator
07 The Source
08 Actual Fantasy
09 The Theory of Everything
10 Transitus

If I had to do an Ayreon top 20 songs list, my guess would be that 15 of them would be from my top two albums.

[jingle.boy]

I'd probably go with this:

01 Into the Electric Castle
02 The Dream Sequencer
03 The Human Equation
04 01011001
05 The Final Experiment
06 Flight of the Migrator
07 The Source
08 Actual Fantasy
09 The Theory of Everything
10 Transitus

If I had to do an Ayreon top 20 songs list, my guess would be that 15 of them would be from my top two albums.

I think ITEC has the best songs that can be listened to independently of the album/concept.  TUM as well, though I don't exactly consider that to be a proper 'concept' album.

Your bottom 3 is exactly how I'd rank 'em too.

[kaos2900]

Finished up my Ayreon run-through.

Transitus is not good and pretty much totally forgettable.  Yowza.

100% agreed on Transitus. Biggest disappointment of the year for me.