Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (Star Three on the way)

[KevShmev]

I am stunned at all of these recs of The Source, which I thought was considered a letdown at the time, and for me is one of those albums with a handful of really good songs and then a bunch of meh songs otherwise.  Meanwhile, single albums like The Dream Sequencer and The Final Experiment are not only much more consistent, but have arguably higher highs. *shrugs*

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, I agree... I think the Source would be a bad way to *start* with Ayreon.  The cheese is layered on pretty thick, and (again), part of it's charm is in the story, characters, and ultimately the connection back to 01.  I personally love the album (it's certainly better than TTOE, and I like it more than 01), but I don't think it's the place to start.

[ErHaO]

I am stunned at all of these recs of The Source, which I thought was considered a letdown at the time, and for me is one of those albums with a handful of really good songs and then a bunch of meh songs otherwise.  Meanwhile, single albums like The Dream Sequencer and The Final Experiment are not only much more consistent, but have arguably higher highs. *shrugs*

I do agree The Final Experiment and The Dream Sequencer are accessible and consistent, but I don't think it is very representative for the majority of the body of Arjen's work at this point in time, at least to my ears. And the latter is not an easy recommendation for someone looking for metal.



And I think The Source has actually been a point of entry for many, looking at sales and reactions on youtube and all. It is also at the top of popular releases on Spotify (artist page).

[Stadler]

I'm going to listen to one Arjen/Ayreon album later this week. You guys have until Tuesday afternoon to decide which one it'll be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have never heard a single song by him/them..

Honestly, I think I MIGHT start with 10010101.  That first sequence - Age Of Shadows/We Are Forever/Comatose/Liquid Eternity - is solid as a rock for me.   

Then again, given that I like it so much, maybe he should stay far away from it! 

[jingle.boy]

I'm going to listen to one Arjen/Ayreon album later this week. You guys have until Tuesday afternoon to decide which one it'll be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have never heard a single song by him/them..

Honestly, I think I MIGHT start with 10010101.  That first sequence - Age Of Shadows/We Are Forever/Comatose/Liquid Eternity - is solid as a rock for me.   

Then again, given that I like it so much, maybe he should stay far away from it! 

Self Awareness:  You get it.   

[Kwyjibo]

I could have sworn someone sent some Ayreon in the TAC roulette that I participated in, wasn't me though.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer (it blows) when he listens to Ayreon. 

The only thing that could be remotely to his liking is Universal Migrator and even with that I'm not sure.

[The Letter M]

When you're all referring to Universal Migrator, you just mean Flight Of The Migrator, right? Universal Migrator is the name for the two albums, being Part 1: The Dream Sequencer and Part 2: Flight Of The Migrator.

Unless you're suggesting both parts to start with, though the softer, Floydian sounds of TDS might turn someone away if they're just looking for the heavier metal elements of FOTM.

-Marc.

[TAC]

I'm going to listen to one Arjen/Ayreon album later this week. You guys have until Tuesday afternoon to decide which one it'll be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have never heard a single song by him/them..

Honestly, I think I MIGHT start with 10010101.  That first sequence - Age Of Shadows/We Are Forever/Comatose/Liquid Eternity - is solid as a rock for me.   

Then again, given that I like it so much, maybe he should stay far away from it! 

Self Awareness:  You get it.   

Yup. I now know what NOT to start with. 

[jingle.boy]

I could have sworn someone sent some Ayreon in the TAC roulette that I participated in, wasn't me though.

I sent Human See, Human Do in Round 1 of his first roulette.

Jingle.Boy-Star One-Human See Human Do
Like Ruslan’s submission, this is exactly the type of song I was envisioning for this first round.  Fast upbeat and to the point. Excellent vocals on this especially Damien Wilson. Tried sneaking those Swano vocals by me, and on first listen, I hated it, but on subsequent listens, I thought they worked perfectly with those eerie keyboards.  Would definitely be interested in hearing more from this album.

8.5

Wonder how he'd feel about those Swano vox now!?!?   

Also, I DID send him Chaos outside of his roulette - guess he doesn't remember, or didn't listen.  

[Kwyjibo]

When you're all referring to Universal Migrator, you just mean Flight Of The Migrator, right? Universal Migrator is the name for the two albums, being Part 1: The Dream Sequencer and Part 2: Flight Of The Migrator.

Unless you're suggesting both parts to start with, though the softer, Floydian sounds of TDS might turn someone away if they're just looking for the heavier metal elements of FOTM.

-Marc.

You're right, I, and probably the others too, mean Flight Of The Migrator, the heavy one.

[KevShmev]

I find Flight of the Migrator to be kinda spotty, but it's got some great tunes.

I agree with Bill that the opening run on 10010101 is pretty money (the atrocious lyrics in Connect the Dots aside).

[jingle.boy]

When you're all referring to Universal Migrator, you just mean Flight Of The Migrator, right? Universal Migrator is the name for the two albums, being Part 1: The Dream Sequencer and Part 2: Flight Of The Migrator.

Unless you're suggesting both parts to start with, though the softer, Floydian sounds of TDS might turn someone away if they're just looking for the heavier metal elements of FOTM.

-Marc.

You're right, I, and probably the others too, mean Flight Of The Migrator, the heavy one.

Oh yeah, right ... I usually forget which is which, cuz I always think of it simply as a double album (and usually completely disregard The Dream Sequencer disc - I'm not a fan, and Tim would loathe it).  I'm definitely referencing the Flight of the Migrator

[Grappler]

I'll reach for a wild card and suggest The Universal Migrator.

I know TAC likes his metal and that's an album of Arjen going whole-hog into spacey prog metal territory. Some killer songs and guest performances from musicians I bet he's already a fan of.
It was my introduction to Ayreon and it did the trick for me. I think it's also more immediate and engaging than those sprawling double albums.

Seconded The Universal Migrator Part 2 - it's the heaviest Ayreon album and features a lot of power metal singers, and one very well known, massive singer.  It's really the only Ayeron album that I enjoy.

Star One is very much in the same vein - heavier, with songs about science fiction films. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't usually like recommending a bands best album right away. For someone, to get a sense of the band, I recommend an album that has all the essential elements that make the band who they are. I guess, the album that best represents the sound of the band. Sometimes, it does happen to be their best album.

The Source is one that is a great introduction right from the first song. The Day That The World Breaks Down starts off with that Sci-Fi type of sound, like you know you are entering a world in another time, another space (couldn't help it). JLB, one of many guests, begins his vocals, and we are introduced to how Ayreon utilizes the vocalists capablities. Then comes in the flute, and we are made aware of the fact there are many different instruments as well, then in comes the violin, and it gets more bombastic once the Synth Rhythm makes it's appearance before going into the heavy onslaught riff. It then, goes on to showcase, all the vocalists, and the twists and turns, that Arjen does to tell his story of Ayreon.

[Bentower]

I'll reach for a wild card and suggest The Universal Migrator.

I know TAC likes his metal and that's an album of Arjen going whole-hog into spacey prog metal territory. Some killer songs and guest performances from musicians I bet he's already a fan of.
It was my introduction to Ayreon and it did the trick for me. I think it's also more immediate and engaging than those sprawling double albums.

Seconded The Universal Migrator Part 2 - it's the heaviest Ayreon album and features a lot of power metal singers, and one very well known, massive singer.  It's really the only Ayeron album that I enjoy.

Star One is very much in the same vein - heavier, with songs about science fiction films.

I can imagine TAC liking the first Star One album as well (it's way better than the second IMO), but I didn't recommend it because it's not an Ayreon album per se.

And yes, like you and others pointed out, Flight of the Migrator (Universal Migrator Part 2) is the one I meant.

[LudwigVan]

I'm going to listen to one Arjen/Ayreon album later this week. You guys have until Tuesday afternoon to decide which one it'll be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have never heard a single song by him/them..

Honestly, I think I MIGHT start with 10010101.  That first sequence - Age Of Shadows/We Are Forever/Comatose/Liquid Eternity - is solid as a rock for me.   

Then again, given that I like it so much, maybe he should stay far away from it! 

Self Awareness:  You get it.   

Yup. I now know what NOT to start with. 

Outside of a song or two, I can’t see you taking a shine to Ayreon. Especially since I know you’re not crazy about the whole rotating vocalists concept.

[The Letter M]

I'm going to listen to one Arjen/Ayreon album later this week. You guys have until Tuesday afternoon to decide which one it'll be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have never heard a single song by him/them..

Honestly, I think I MIGHT start with 10010101.  That first sequence - Age Of Shadows/We Are Forever/Comatose/Liquid Eternity - is solid as a rock for me.   

Then again, given that I like it so much, maybe he should stay far away from it! 

Self Awareness:  You get it.   

Yup. I now know what NOT to start with. 

Outside of a song or two, I can’t see you taking a shine to Ayreon. Especially since I know you’re not crazy about the whole rotating vocalists concept.

Well if the multiple-vocalists approach isn't that pleasing, I guess the only albums you could check out to get a sense of Arjen's work might be the Guilt Machine album, On This Perfect Day, or his solo album Lost In The New Real (though that features narration by Rutger Hauer, but Arjen is the only vocalist on the album). You could also check out Ambeon, Stream Of Passion, or The Gentle Storm as they only have a singular vocalist - Astrid van der Veen, Marvela Bovio, and  Anneke van Giersbergen respectively. Outside of that, his Ayreon and Star One albums all features casts of vocalists, either singing individual songs (Actual Fantasy, Universal Migrator), or playing parts across an album like a true rock opera (every other album).

-Marc.

[TAC]

I just want to pick an Ayreon album and check it out. I might lose my mind chasing down all of Lucassen's projects.

Yes, it's true that I'm not a huge fan of multiple vocalists, but I've come to accept the Avantasia albums as they are.

[425]

Here, I'll lay out a summary of some of the options that have been presented:

01001101 - On the heavier side, a lot of vocalists and a lot of switching between vocalists. I'll also give you the warning that there's significant Jorn Lande on this one.

Flight of the Migrator - The most consistently heavy Ayreon album, this one comes close at times to just being straight-up power metal. A different lead vocalist for each song, but each song has only one lead singer (plus a background singer in one case). This one has an A+ Bruce Dickinson performance on Into the Black Hole, which, for a Maiden fan, is worth listening to for Bruce even if you pick a different album. Also the only one of these that is not a double album.

The Source - Probably the second-heaviest Ayreon album after FotM. Like 01, has a lot of different vocalists with a lot of switching. IMO this is a slightly stronger cast of singers, but there's some overlap and opinions may vary. This album had a bit more of a mixed reception, but it's personally my favorite Ayreon album.

The Human Equation - Their consensus best album. Not as heavy as the previous three, somewhat more on the border of prog rock and prog metal, although it has some heavy moments. A medium amount of singers with some room for singers to get longer solo sections. JLB is the main character.

Into the Electric Castle - Similar to THE in my opinion, but goes for the absolute maximum amount of cheese. A lot of people really like this one, but I personally never got into it outside of a few songs.

[TAC]

Are those the only 5 Ayreon albums?

[The Letter M]

Flight of the Migrator - The most consistently heavy Ayreon album, this one comes close at times to just being straight-up power metal. A different lead vocalist for each song, but each song has only one lead singer (plus a background singer in one case). This one has an A+ Bruce Dickinson performance on Into the Black Hole, which, for a Maiden fan, is worth listening to for Bruce even if you pick a different album. Also the only one of these that is not a double album.

It is a single album, but I will add, that if anyone new is trying to follow the narrative at all, it's a direct sequel to The Dream Sequencer, both albums being part of an intended double album. But if you're going in strictly for the music, then the lyrics' meaning won't matter much anyway. It is a very heavy album, though, so if you want a more power metal feel, go for it, but it's really just one side/aspect of Ayreon's music as a whole.

The Source - Probably the second-heaviest Ayreon album after FotM. Like 01, has a lot of different vocalists with a lot of switching. IMO this is a slightly stronger cast of singers, but there's some overlap and opinions may vary. This album had a bit more of a mixed reception, but it's personally my favorite Ayreon album.

I wouldn't say the reception was mixed, as far as critics go. According to its wikipedia article, a lot of reviews gave it at least 3.5/5.0 or 9/10. But looking at ProgArchives, it is the fifth highest rated Ayreon album (behind The Human Equation, Into The Electric Castle, The Theory Of Everything, and 01011001 in that order), although it only receved 255 ratings (compared to 600-1200 ratings for the other four albums).

If you want to check any of these out on YouTube, there's a great account named Taycott who has uploaded lyric videos for whole albums (some of which do not have the audio due to copyright claims by the label), which feature pictures for each character and on-screen lyrics by each of them as they sing, so if you want to keep track of who is singing when, it's definitely worth checking out. They also put up a motion comic version of the comic that came with Transitus, though I haven't checked it out in its entirety.

Are those the only 5 Ayreon albums?

There are ten Ayreon albums (nine if you count the two Universal Migrator albums as one double album, though both were released separately).

1995 - The Final Experiment (71:10)
1996 - Actual Fantasy (re-released with a new mix/real drums as Actual Fantasy Revisited in 2004) (61:59)
1998 - Into The Electric Castle (104:32)
2000 - Universal Migrator, Part 1: The Dream Sequencer (70:09)
2000 - Universal Migrator, Part 2: Flight Of The Migrator (65:34)
2004 - The Human Equation (102:14)
2008 - 01011001 (102:09)
2013 - The Theory Of Everything (89:33)
2017 - The Source (88:31)
2020 - Transitus (80:41)

That is the core Ayreon discography, not counting singles, compilations, or live albums. The last five albums are all double albums, as is ITEC.

EDIT - Added album lengths for each album.

-Marc.

[425]

I think Marc's contributions are all helpful.

I listed only those five albums because those were the ones I saw being recommended in the thread. I think the other five are less likely to appeal to you for various reasons. The Final Experiment and Actual Fantasy because they're the first two albums, written while Lucassen was still sort of finding the Ayreon sound, The Dream Sequencer because it is purely a prog rock album with no heavy parts at all, and The Theory of Everything and Transitus because the vocal lines often come closer to sung speech, which can come off as awkward, especially when the lyrics are not great.

[ErHaO]

Are those the only 5 Ayreon albums?

No, but I think he is estimating what to recommend to you and why. Two other albums are closer to musicals (to an extent the Theory of Everything and especially Transitus). One is prog but not a whole lot of rock/metal (Dream Sequencer). One is just not very popular (Actual Fantasy).

And if you do happen to enjoy the metal side of Ayreon, there is also Star One (two albums, one upcoming)

[KevShmev]

Marc's post was helpful, but I would disregard any ratings from ProgArchives, as they are often based on how proggy an album is rather than the quality, which is why The Theory of Everything, which is 4 long songs, is 3rd there, while it is near the bottom of rankings almost everywhere else (as is should be as that and Transitus are definitely the two least best).

[TAC]

OK, thank you everyone.

I think I'm going to hit Flight Of The Migrator. But I also want to hear the one Labrie is on..The Human Equation, I think.


No Kiske on any of these albums??

Marc's post was helpful, but I would disregard any ratings from ProgArchives, \

I only disregard ratings from StadlerArchives.

[KevShmev]

OK, thank you everyone.

I think I'm going to hit Flight Of The Migrator. But I also want to hear the one Labrie is on..The Human Equation, I think.

Good picks, given your tastes...or lack thereof.

[The Letter M]

Marc's post was helpful, but I would disregard any ratings from ProgArchives, as they are often based on how proggy an album is rather than the quality, which is why The Theory of Everything, which is 4 long songs, is 3rd there, while it is near the bottom of rankings almost everywhere else (as is should be as that and Transitus are definitely the two least best).

  You're killing me Kev. I really love TTOE, but perhaps my enjoyment stems from really loving the inherent progginess of the album, plus stellar performances by Mike Mills and Tommy Karevik, not to mention John Wetton. I'd probably put TTOE 3rd or 4th for me, at least ahead of the first two albums, 01011001, Transitus, and Universal Migrator (both parts). ITEC and THE are easily my top two, and The Source has really grown on me over the years, but TTOE might stay at third. Yeah, it's four long songs (totalling 42 movements across both discs), but I really like the flow of the album, which sets it apart from the other Ayreon albums.

-Marc.

[TAC]

OK, thank you everyone.

I think I'm going to hit Flight Of The Migrator. But I also want to hear the one Labrie is on..The Human Equation, I think.

Good picks, given your tastes...or lack thereof.

[KevShmev]

 

  You're killing me Kev. I really love TTOE, but perhaps my enjoyment stems from really loving the inherent progginess of the album, plus stellar performances by Mike Mills and Tommy Karevik, not to mention John Wetton. I'd probably put TTOE 3rd or 4th for me, at least ahead of the first two albums, 01011001, Transitus, and Universal Migrator (both parts). ITEC and THE are easily my top two, and The Source has really grown on me over the years, but TTOE might stay at third. Yeah, it's four long songs (totalling 42 movements across both discs), but I really like the flow of the album, which sets it apart from the other Ayreon albums.

I'll give my updated thoughts when I get to it again what looks to be later this week.  Hoping it is better this time around, but we'll see.

[The Letter M]

OK, thank you everyone.

I think I'm going to hit Flight Of The Migrator. But I also want to hear the one Labrie is on..The Human Equation, I think.


No Kiske on any of these albums??

After some Googling, Michael Kiske does not seem to appear on any Ayreon or Star One albums, although now that you said that, I'm sure Arjen is calling him up right now to be on the third Star One album (which is currently in the works). 

And yes, James LaBrie is on The Human Equation, but he is also on The Source, but he has a bigger role on The Human Equation.

I'll give my updated thoughts when I get to it again what looks to be later this week.  Hoping it is better this time around, but we'll see.

I hope you like it better this time around as well! Definitely try to follow along where the soloists come in as well, though if you're at all familiar with the sounds and styles of Emerson, Wakeman, Rudess and Hackett, it won't be hard to spot their solos.

-Marc.

[TAC]

Cool, I'll report back!

[KevShmev]

I'll give my updated thoughts when I get to it again what looks to be later this week.  Hoping it is better this time around, but we'll see.

I hope you like it better this time around as well! Definitely try to follow along where the soloists come in as well, though if you're at all familiar with the sounds and styles of Emerson, Wakeman, Rudess and Hackett, it won't be hard to spot their solos.

-Marc.

I spotted Emerson's part the first time through, as there was no mistaking his tone and style, but I cannot remember where the others are.

[The Letter M]

I'll give my updated thoughts when I get to it again what looks to be later this week.  Hoping it is better this time around, but we'll see.

I hope you like it better this time around as well! Definitely try to follow along where the soloists come in as well, though if you're at all familiar with the sounds and styles of Emerson, Wakeman, Rudess and Hackett, it won't be hard to spot their solos.

-Marc.

I spotted Emerson's part the first time through, as there was no mistaking his tone and style, but I cannot remember where the others are.

Emerson's solo definitely stands out on the album, his tone is so unique, but right after his solo comes Rudess!! I guess if anyone could follow Emerson, it would be the Wizard!

-Marc.

[Kwyjibo]

The Theory Of Everything is absolutely amazing, regardless of what KevShmev thinks.

[Cool Chris]

If you want to check any of these out on YouTube, there's a great account named Taycott who has uploaded lyric videos for whole albums (some of which do not have the audio due to copyright claims by the label), which feature pictures for each character and on-screen lyrics by each of them as they sing, so if you want to keep track of who is singing when, it's definitely worth checking out.

I would never have time to watch whole albums of this, but it sounded cool so I checked a couple out. Cool idea. I didn't like that he didn't put the lyricists names on screen. I saw he listed them in the description, but I think having it on screen, along with their character name, would have been nice.