Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (Star Three on the way)

[ErHaO]

I don't know how anyone could hear Mike Mills in that to be honest. I don't immediately recognise this voice. Sounds great though.

[jingle.boy]

I don't know how anyone could hear Mike Mills in that to be honest. I don't immediately recognise this voice. Sounds great though.

Same... I saw those responses and was like

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I'm about 85% sure that's Brittney Slayes.  Mills does have a higher vocal timbre and insane high range, but that still doesn't sound like a male vocalist. 

I agree... the Live on Earth versions of the Space Metal tunes are generally far better than the studio ones.  I just wish they'd done Master of Darkness live.

I think Arjen was too intimidated by Wehrkamp's soloing by try and pull it off.  It is one of the coolest Star One songs though.  I wouldn't say the live versions are better, but it's definitely one of my favorite live albums.  A major reason I prefer the studio versions is because I'm a huge Swano fan.  "Starchild" is another of my favorite songs, and it just doesn't sound the same with Soeterboek doing Dan's lines an octave up.  Even Dan himself might not have been able to pull off that final sonorous note on the album live though. 

[majo]

Decent Ayreon song. Really dug parts of it.

Let me know when he releases a Star One song.

this is imho a pretty meh song even for the Ayreon... and I LOVE Ayreon usually.

[Stadler]

I don't know how anyone could hear Mike Mills in that to be honest. I don't immediately recognise this voice. Sounds great though.

I do think it's neat that Mills is breaking out of the comfort zone of REM, though.    

[The Letter M]

https://youtu.be/4jn5c2OfqRQ

Brittney Slayes confirmed!

-Marc.

[Ben_Jamin]

I've been pondering this since the reactions in the A View From...official album thread and I am noticing it here with regards to Star One.

How does one define the sound/identity of a band? and I really think this plays into a persons perceptions and expectations of a bands new music.

Here in the case of Star One. People have come to identify and have a perception/expectation of Star One as a band that mainly consists of those vocalists. The fan/audience perception of the what Star One is, is not the same as Arjens perceptions of what Star One is.

What Arjen is doing with this Star One album is breaking that audience/fan perception of what Star One is and showing us exactly what the artist perceives Star One to be. What Star One is and always has been is Arjen's outlet to play the more metal Sci-Fi inspired songs and ideas he has. There are no flutes, and other unique instruments that are related to the folk genre. I think this want to do a more Metal style of songs came from splitting up The Universal Migrator. This was the formation of what is known as Star One. This is where he branched the Ayreon sound into two separate identities. The more folky, storytelling of Ayreon and the more metal-sci fi space crew of Star One.

Knowing how big a Star Trek fan Arjen is. I am just laughing at myself because I am comparing the reactions of this Star One album, similar to Star Trek fans with regards to the original Star Trek crew and the Star Trek: The Next Generation crew. I see this album as Arjen making a Next Generation of the Star One crew.

I view Star One as a musical Star Trek. A spaceship crew exploring the vast galaxies of space (They even had matching outfits for the shows.  )What is one to do when one of the crew has a falling out, and one is uncapable of performing their duties. You find a new crew to work the ship.

This is what I feel Arjen is doing with Star One...

But then this makes me think about the Ayreon similarities and what if Arjen is slowly going to just combine these two elements into one awesome Ayreon album mixing both styles, in which he regrets splitting them up on The Universal Migrator. 

[Adami]

She sounds good! Also sounds very Star One.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

VT: And as hard as it is to believe, it’s already the 10th anniversary of the second Star One album Victims Of The Modern Age.

AL: I know! Funny you should mention it. As you know, every album I do is a reaction to the previous one, so since Transitus is not a metal album, I’d love to do a metal album now. So I’m thinking of doing a ‘Star Three’. But I don’t want to repeat myself, so last week I took a really long walk and with headphones I listened to both Star One albums. And again, it’s weird for me because the first album sold like crazy, it’s way more popular than Victims Of The Modern Age, which is one of my lesser sellers. But when I heard it, I thought ‘Oh my god, it sounds so good, and so huge!’ And it sounds stupid to say about myself, but the songs are kind of intelligent, you know? And then you listen to the first Star One album and it’s basically simple songs (laughs and sings ‘Intergalactic space crusaders…’) But it’s way more catchy, the first album. It has standout tracks like Set Your Controls and Songs Of The Ocean and The Eye Of Ra. The second album for some reason doesn’t have that. It’s kind of all on the same level for me. That’s probably why I didn’t play one of them on Ayreon Universe, but I think that album is so incredibly strong. The riffs, the sound, and of course the singers sound so good.

Yea he's so right about VOTMA sounding so good, sonically it's a beefcake! 

The cheese was strong on the debut I mean Intergalactic space crusaders  However it's such a fun song live and he's probably right, he sometimes overdo something instead of keeping it simple which is funny because this album seems to go in the same vein since it's so much Ayreon over it so i'm not sure what his reaction for this album really is?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

But then this makes me think about the Ayreon similarities and what if Arjen is slowly going to just combine these two elements into one awesome Ayreon album mixing both styles, in which he regrets splitting them up on The Universal Migrator. 

Stareon! 

I see myself out...

[LithoJazzoSphere]

A spaceship crew exploring the vast galaxies of space (They even had matching outfits for the shows.  ).

Apparently Russ didn't get the wardrobe memo... 

[Stadler]

As a general proposition, I subscribe to the theory that the art is what the artist says it is. If Arjen says this is "Star One", or if Petrooch says "this is what DT is today" then that's what it is.  The art is THEIR expression, not mine, and is subject to whatever lenses, biases, motivations, interpretations that the artist puts to it. 

[jingle.boy]

As a general proposition, I subscribe to the theory that the art is what the artist says it is. If Arjen says this is "Star One", or if Petrooch says "this is what DT is today" then that's what it is.  The art is THEIR expression, not mine, and is subject to whatever lenses, biases, motivations, interpretations that the artist puts to it.

I hear what you're saying, I just think it's wrong.   

I kid... I don't really think this statement is entirely wrong.  I think art a blend of both the artist's intentions, and the viewer/listener's interpretation.  Like how some people think Die Hard is a Christmas movie - and even though Director John McTiernan says it *became* a Christmas movie, most of us know that it is *not* a Christmas movie.

So, I think in one sense you're right, but you're not entirely right (imo).

[Adami]

As a general proposition, I subscribe to the theory that the art is what the artist says it is. If Arjen says this is "Star One", or if Petrooch says "this is what DT is today" then that's what it is.  The art is THEIR expression, not mine, and is subject to whatever lenses, biases, motivations, interpretations that the artist puts to it.

Yes. This is technically Star One.

Still sounds like Ayreon. He can’t tell me what it sounds like, he can just tell me what it’s technically called.

[425]

As a general proposition, I subscribe to the theory that the art is what the artist says it is. If Arjen says this is "Star One", or if Petrooch says "this is what DT is today" then that's what it is.  The art is THEIR expression, not mine, and is subject to whatever lenses, biases, motivations, interpretations that the artist puts to it.

I hear what you're saying, I just think it's wrong.   

I kid... I don't really think this statement is entirely wrong.  I think art a blend of both the artist's intentions, and the viewer/listener's interpretation.  Like how some people think Die Hard is a Christmas movie - and even though Director John McTiernan says it *became* a Christmas movie, most of us know that it is *not* a Christmas movie.

So, I think in one sense you're right, but you're not entirely right (imo).

I think it makes a difference whether it's a proper name, like "Star One," or a category, like "Christmas movie."

Like, if Arjen claimed this album was baroque chamber music, I don't think I should give any credence to that just because he's the artist. I can just listen to it and tell that it's blatantly not baroque chamber music. But if he claims it's Star One, he's really saying that it's part of his project that he calls Star One, and there I think I have to take him at his word. I think I have to take him at his word even if he does release an album of baroque chamber music and says it's Star One.

Per Adami's post, as for what you say it *sounds like*, I think, yeah, that's another situation where it's up to your judgment, not the artist's. But in a case where an artist changes musical style and then makes several albums in that new style, sticking to that initial judgment might become questionable. Like, when Opeth went from death metal to prog rock, a lot of people said that the new album doesn't sound like Opeth, which had a lot of plausibility because it really didn't sound at all like most of their other albums. But now that they've released four albums in that new style, I don't think it would be so credible to say that their fifth "doesn't sound like Opeth," because... well, what do you mean? It sounds like these other four Opeth albums!

[jingle.boy]

Or when Bon Jovi went from Rock to whatever the hell they are putting out nowadays?

[Kwyjibo]

Obviously if it has Star One written on the album sleeve it is a Star One album. But that doesn't mean I can't say that I expected different music and a different cast on a Star One album.

[The Curious Orange]

Yet again I find myself in a minority on DTF - I really liked Transitus. It was everything The Astonishing was trying to be but wasn't.

Ayreon or Star One? Who really cares so long as the music is good.

[Stadler]

As a general proposition, I subscribe to the theory that the art is what the artist says it is. If Arjen says this is "Star One", or if Petrooch says "this is what DT is today" then that's what it is.  The art is THEIR expression, not mine, and is subject to whatever lenses, biases, motivations, interpretations that the artist puts to it.

I hear what you're saying, I just think it's wrong.   

I kid... I don't really think this statement is entirely wrong.  I think art a blend of both the artist's intentions, and the viewer/listener's interpretation.  Like how some people think Die Hard is a Christmas movie - and even though Director John McTiernan says it *became* a Christmas movie, most of us know that it is *not* a Christmas movie.

So, I think in one sense you're right, but you're not entirely right (imo).

I think it makes a difference whether it's a proper name, like "Star One," or a category, like "Christmas movie."

Like, if Arjen claimed this album was baroque chamber music, I don't think I should give any credence to that just because he's the artist. I can just listen to it and tell that it's blatantly not baroque chamber music. But if he claims it's Star One, he's really saying that it's part of his project that he calls Star One, and there I think I have to take him at his word. I think I have to take him at his word even if he does release an album of baroque chamber music and says it's Star One.

Per Adami's post, as for what you say it *sounds like*, I think, yeah, that's another situation where it's up to your judgment, not the artist's. But in a case where an artist changes musical style and then makes several albums in that new style, sticking to that initial judgment might become questionable. Like, when Opeth went from death metal to prog rock, a lot of people said that the new album doesn't sound like Opeth, which had a lot of plausibility because it really didn't sound at all like most of their other albums. But now that they've released four albums in that new style, I don't think it would be so credible to say that their fifth "doesn't sound like Opeth," because... well, what do you mean? It sounds like these other four Opeth albums!

But some of the things being said (generally, not by you, 425) are not really on point.   The artist has to be honest, both with himself and the audience for this to be true.   If you and I decide "we need to be rich!" and write 10 pop tunes, but after the album is released go on TV talking about how it was a deep expression of our disgust for the last Presidential election, that's bull shit.  If we get hammered one night and lament the Presidential election, and somehow bang out 10 cool tunes, and they happen to be very poppy, that's not.

U2 is famous, now, for introducing "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" as a gospel song.   And even though it doesn't sound like it, it is, because they said so.  It's their song, ultimately (and yes, I know there are now gospel interpretations of that song MAKING it so).   Music From The Elder is a good example; for us, fans of the prog world, that's a shitty concept album - single disk, lousy story, etc. - but I think Gene and Paul well and truly WERE trying, initially, to do a concept record. 

I don't think what we hear is all that important frankly; that's not to say that songs don't take on other meanings, but it doesn't change the INITIAL meaning intended by the artist.   

[425]

I still think there are a couple of different elements in play here. I agree that artist testimony matters when it comes to the question of what they're trying to express, or what their inspirations were, or whether they're trying to write a concept album (as well as the question of whether a certain album is "by" a certain band or project, assuming the artist(s) in question are controlling members of that band/project). But I think genre is a bit of a different matter.

If the members of Dream Theater came out and said "Pull Me Under was inspired by disco," and they were really telling the truth about what was in their minds when they wrote the song, then they're right, because that's a statement about intent or inspiration. Same if they said "Pull Me Under was our attempt at disco"—they're the ones who know what they were attempting to do, so their testimony is what we need to know whether that statement is true. But the statement "Pull Me Under is a disco song" is different, to me. Because that's a statement about what the music actually sounds like. And that's one where I maintain that DT could call it a disco song all day long, and even have really meant to make it a disco song, and it still wouldn't be disco because it's just not disco.

To return to this scenario: If Arjen says "This is a Star One album," or "I approached this with the intent of writing a Star One album" or "I was inspired by the sound of the previous Star One albums and wanted to write another like them," then we need to look to his testimony to determine the truth of those statements. If he's accurately reporting the state of his mind, in the latter cases, and his final decision on project titling, in the first case, then those statements are true regardless of what we think about the music itself. But if Arjen says "This album sounds like the other Star One albums," then we need to listen to the albums in question in order to determine whether we agree with him or not, because it's a statement about qualities of the music itself.

[ErHaO]

Latest samples sound right up my alley. Not familiar with Britney, but that sample sounds amazing. And Romeo is great as always.

Also, while I agree Lost Children sounds like Ayreon, it is not like Ayreon is this totally different genre of music. Nor does the song categorically not sound like Star One to me. The riffing that kicks in around 2:10 (and is found throughout the song) would totally fit on Victims of the Modern age and every time Marcela and Irene sing as well. And to me it is not like there is a clear established rule of sound concerning Star One, seeing they only released two albums and have done one tour (with mostly Ayreon songs). I just don't think it is all that comparable to many of the examples given in this thread of artists changing names/genres.

[Ben_Jamin]

Knowing how big a Star Trek fan Arjen is. I am just laughing at myself because I am comparing the reactions of this Star One album, similar to Star Trek fans with regards to the original Star Trek crew and the Star Trek: The Next Generation crew. I see this album as Arjen making a Next Generation of the Star One crew.

I view Star One as a musical Star Trek. A spaceship crew exploring the vast galaxies of space (They even had matching outfits for the shows.  )What is one to do when one of the crew has a falling out, and one is uncapable of performing their duties. You find a new crew to work the ship.

So...I decided to message Arjen this on Facebook on his Ayreon page. How I view Star One as a spaceship crew exploring the galaxies of space and how it's like making a new Star Trek crew akin to The Next Generation.

He laughed and said, "great analogy, Ben. Engage!

Sometimes it pays to just ask a question to the artist anyways. Arjen is so nice to respond.

[Stadler]

Knowing how big a Star Trek fan Arjen is. I am just laughing at myself because I am comparing the reactions of this Star One album, similar to Star Trek fans with regards to the original Star Trek crew and the Star Trek: The Next Generation crew. I see this album as Arjen making a Next Generation of the Star One crew.

I view Star One as a musical Star Trek. A spaceship crew exploring the vast galaxies of space (They even had matching outfits for the shows.  )What is one to do when one of the crew has a falling out, and one is uncapable of performing their duties. You find a new crew to work the ship.

So...I decided to message Arjen this on Facebook on his Ayreon page. How I view Star One as a spaceship crew exploring the galaxies of space and how it's like making a new Star Trek crew akin to The Next Generation.

He laughed and said, "great analogy, Ben. Engage!

Sometimes it pays to just ask a question to the artist anyways. Arjen is so nice to respond.

HAHAHAHA!  I love that response!  Good for you!

[ErHaO]

I love the new track! More concise, straightforward metal track, but it flows really well and I like Romeo's solo. Britney sounds really good, I need to check out more from Unleash The Archers one day.

[jingle.boy]

Musically.... THAT was Star One.  Vocally... I'm luke-warm at the moment, but have a feeling I'll warm up to it.  Lyrically - gloriously cringy.

Loved it.

[Peter Mc]

I love the new track! More concise, straightforward metal track, but it flows really well and I like Romeo's solo. Britney sounds really good, I need to check out more from Unleash The Archers one day.

If you do, I’d start with their last two albums, Apex and Abyss.  Anything earlier than that is vastly inferior but those two albums are superb.

[Grappler]

I dug that song, but agree that the lyrics were beyond cheesy.  But it gives me hope that the album will feel more like Star One and less like Ayreon.

[Adami]

Loved it.

Sounded like Star One (musically at least, still odd without the quartet), fun, cringey lyrics. Bring on more!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

It's early, but so far that's the best song of 2022. 

[cramx3]

I love the new track! More concise, straightforward metal track, but it flows really well and I like Romeo's solo. Britney sounds really good, I need to check out more from Unleash The Archers one day.

Please do so, their last album Abyss was (if I recall) my 2nd favorite album of 2020 and upon more review, I think I'd rate it #1 now.  Britney is a really good singer and the music is very good on the newest album.  Great metal IMO and they performed live a couple months ago, blew me away with how good she was in person. 

Now I need to check this song out.

[Ben_Jamin]

I will say Brittany Slays fits right in with Arjen and his sound. It would be awesome if he worked with her for an Ayreon project.

Song reminded me of Run Apocalypse Run mixed with Ride The Comet. I enjoyed the song.

[gzarruk]

Song reminded me of Run Apocalypse Run

THIS! Listened to this new song once and had Run Apocalypse Run stuck in my head for hours

[ErHaO]

I love the new track! More concise, straightforward metal track, but it flows really well and I like Romeo's solo. Britney sounds really good, I need to check out more from Unleash The Archers one day.

Please do so, their last album Abyss was (if I recall) my 2nd favorite album of 2020 and upon more review, I think I'd rate it #1 now.  Britney is a really good singer and the music is very good on the newest album.  Great metal IMO and they performed live a couple months ago, blew me away with how good she was in person. 

Now I need to check this song out.

Sounds good. I only know their (very nice) cover of Northwest Passage from a metal playlist on spotify.

[Ben_Jamin]

Song reminded me of Run Apocalypse Run

THIS! Listened to this new song once and had Run Apocalypse Run stuck in my head for hours

I kept thinkng... What Ayreon song is this...then just started singing..."WE'RE BOUND FOR SIRRAHS EYE!!"

[majo]

I dig it