Author Topic: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (Star Three on the way)  (Read 381935 times)

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Offline Adami

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1855 on: September 23, 2017, 12:01:36 AM »
Caught some fan filmed stuff from the shows.


HOLY POPE ON A ROPE! This show looks insane. I am buying this on blu ray the second it's available. Just hope the production is as good as the theater equation.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1856 on: October 01, 2017, 11:30:23 AM »
My review of the show is finally done: https://wpapu.com/ep-364-featuring-ayreon-universe/

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1857 on: October 15, 2017, 08:09:05 AM »
A friend had burned me a copy of The Source a while back, which I finally gave a few spins recently.  Overall, it's not bad - definitely an upgrade over The Theory of Everything, which I thought was pretty forgettable - but, aside from a few songs on Disc 1, I doubt I will return to this one too much.  Star of Sirrah is the one I remember standing out the most.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1858 on: October 16, 2017, 03:11:20 AM »
Disc 1 for me is basically flawless. Disc 2 has 2-3 tracks that I can live without but nothing that bad.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1859 on: October 16, 2017, 05:21:36 PM »
I will probably update my Ayreon mp3 CD for the car and throw most of this on there to see if any more of it soaks in that way.

I did give 01011001 a whirl recently, too, and that one is better than I remember (although I always liked most of it).

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1860 on: October 29, 2017, 05:49:47 AM »
Oh, here's the thread I was looking for!

So here's my ranking of the albums at the moment, except for The Final Experiment and Actual Fantasy which I have yet to give a listen to. Also, I have Guilt Machine's On this perfect day and it would surely be somewhere between n°5 and n°4.

7) Flight of the migrator

A great album but if suffers from the fact that some tracks aren't really that memorable taken out of context. Chaos followed by Dawn of a million souls is a great start even though the keyboards at the beginning of DOAMS are a little too much I think, but the song rocks. Surprisingly I enjoy listening to songs like To the Quasar or To the Solar System from time to time even though they did not impress me that much, I guess they are grower. I really like what he did with Timo Kotipelto, Stratovarius' singer, on Out of the white hole, one of the best tracks. Into the black hole is also a highlight and I really like the kind of oppressing/ominous tone there is to it, even though it gets too repetitive in the end. Finally, The New Migrator is a really fine ending, a great 'orchestral' intro/outro, powerful vocal lines even though the singer is completely unknown to me and maybe the best kind of speed metal solo section Arjen has done. But overall, I have to rank this one last.

6) The Source

Ok, with this one each album starts getting pretty strong. I don't have a lot of issues with it and I would have liked to rank it higher, but I've realised that it's one that I enjoy the less as a whole out of the ones that remain, I tend to listen to the songs separately most of the time. The Day that the World Breaks Down is obviously the masterpiece out there, and one of the best songs Arjen has ever written in my opinion. The other big highlights for me are Aquatic race, The Dream Dissolves, Deathcry of a race and The Source will flow, so mostly disc 2. I enjoy all of the other songs and they all have great melodies and vocal performance and are very fun to listen to, but they lack the something that makes them grower and that makes me listen to them over and over. I think this one might lack a bit of variety but I could easily see it as the starting point to introduce someone to Arjen's world, it even makes sense story-wise.

5) 01011001

My first Ayreon album, my first prog album. It has 5 songs which I consider absolute classics in Arjen's discography, namely Age of Shadows, Liquid Eternity, Beneath the Waves (my personal fave), The 5th and the 6th extinction. This album is awesome at least for those 5. But I enjoy the others too and there are some real growers out there like Newborn race, Waking dreams... I think this one also has some really strong vocal performance even though it can get quite messy with the huge number of singers. Overall it is a really good record with some beautiful highlights, however disc 1 suffers from 'Connect the dots' which is just cringeworthy even though I know it serves a purpose... I don't dislike the song that much and it is even pretty catchy but it does feel a little out of place. 'Web of lies' does a better job at that even though this one is kind of forgettable.

4) The Dream Sequencer

This one was a real grower - I did not expect to like it that much. Just like Flight of the migrator it is only one side of the thing, here the ambient one, but unlike Flight, it does succeed much better. There is a real sense of sadness, despair but also of wonder that comes out of that one, and pretty much every song helps conveying that kind of feeling in its own way. I guarantee a song like 2084 can hit pretty hard when listened to alone in the dark on a rainy day... Or it is really easy to let your mind wander along the waves of Dragon on the Sea at the end of a long day. I love every song on here except for Temple of the Cat which is the only one that dissapoints. My favorite is surely One small step because it does associate that sense of despair and of wonder in such a beautiful way. The verse 'As I lie here in this cold tank, living a dream/I'm the last on the planets/I decided this morning I don't want to be/The man on Mars' is so powerful. I think all the singers here did a really great job.

3) The Human Equation

I think it is a fine blend of everything Ayreon is about and it really works well as a whole. There is enough diversity but it does not feel disconnected and there is no plain bad song. The cast shines on this one. The story is also well told and the interaction between 'Me' and the different emotions is quite impressive, a feeling reinforced by the amazing performance delivered on The Theater Equation. The reason it is 'only' number 3 is because I don't feel that connected to it in some parts and because there are not that much songs that I would consider favorites of mine among the whole discography, outside of the album. It's like each song's got at least one impressive moment and a unique distinctive thing, but no song 'dares' to stand out and be significantly better than the others. Still, if I had to name some, I think Day 2, 7, 11, 12, 15, 16, 18 and 20 are maybe a bit stronger. Also, I want to point out James Labrie' superb vocals, really smooth and with a gentle warm, sensitive tone that is not used that much in DT. Arjen's really got the thing to bring out the best of the people he works with!

2) Into the Electric Castle

At first, I thought I was going to like this one the least for some unexplainable reason. But it has slowly grown on me and now I really, really dig it. It has the same qualities that The Human Equation, but here each song is really unique and they are almost all highlights, except for 3 more forgettable ones (Decision Tree, Tunnel of Light, Tower of Hope) but those don't really come in the way of my enjoyment. I like to listen to it as a whole, it has a real journey-like feel, but I also like to listen to it out of context. There are a lot of incredible moments on which I won't elaborate or I will write at least 300 more words. The cast is also shiny on this one and the characters quite likeable even though they can be cliché. It's like Arjen just did what the hell he wanted on this one and thanks to some magic it worked. Of course, it is not perfect, it's damn cheesy, but it provides a real experience that will stick with me for quite a while I believe. It's on this one that you can find some of the most experimental tunes by Arjen, and I like that a lot. Isis and Osiris, Amazing Flight, The Garden of Emotions, Cosmic Fusion come to mind and they are incredible in my opinion. If I had to rank my favorite Ayreon songs, I guess a fair share of ITeC would be ranked be pretty high. 

1) THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING

Of course, it is my avatar. The reason why I love this one so much is because it takes the absolute best out of Ayreon and there's nothing that brings down my enjoyment (or that would be the pause between tracks, but that can be solved). Its structure in 4 phases allows for 4 big epics that are very promising, but the fact that it is divided in 42 tracks makes me think of it as a play with 4 acts and 42 scenes. Each scene serves a purpose, is incredible and fits well with the rest. The story is very compelling, when you discover it for the first time you want to know what happens next. There is also a real work on the characters, and they are all beautifully interprated. The Teacher comes to mind, but of course this applies to all the characters. The twist at the end could have even worked in a great movie I think. The fact that I can somehow relate to it on a personal level (nothing dramatic) makes it even better. Musically, it is pure perfection. Every goddamn melody is awesome and brings out the excitement to a next level and the 'main theme' is in my opinion one of the best musical hooks ever written and arranged. There is a perfect balance and chemistry between the instruments and some really incredible keyboards parts, I am so glad the instrument was so well-used. Arjen uses to its best his ability to create what I call 'musical landscape' with all his sound effects because here it is really subtle and never seems out of place nor does it drag on. I am never bored when listening to it, I'm just amazed at every little twist and turn. Each of the 4 epics has its own highlights and they are all equally awesome. And as if all of that was not enough, the music always follows the emotions of the story, which is something that is really impressive (when I think of it, that's not always the case for the others). At the end of the day, TToE really sums up everyhting that makes a great concept album and shines in every possible way. It was without a doubt that it is my favorite, I liked it upon the first listening and it only kept growing on me to like it even more.

So, what do you think of my ranking and of my thoughts? How much do you think I would enjoy The Final Experiment and Actual Fantasy based on what I wrote? Do you completely disagree on some points? I'd be very glad to discuss it with you all!

« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 01:16:30 PM by RKW »

Offline nattmorker

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1861 on: October 30, 2017, 01:03:47 PM »
4) The Dream Sequencer

This one was a real grower - I did not expect to like it that much. Just like Flight of the migrator it is only one side of the thing, here the ambient one, but unlike Flight, it does succeed much better. There is a real sense of sadness, despair but also of wonder that comes out of that one, and pretty much every song helps conveying that kind of feeling in its own way. I guarantee a song like 2084 can hit pretty hard when listened to alone in the dark on a rainy day... Or it is really easy to let your mind wander along the waves of Dragon on the Sea at the end of a long day. I love every song on here except for Temple of the Cat which is the only one that dissapoints. My favorite is surely One small step because it does associate that sense of despair and of wonder in such a beautiful way. The verse 'As I lie here in this cold tank, living a dream/I'm the last on the planets/I decided this morning I don't want to be/The man on Mars' is so powerful. I think all the singers here did a really great job.


Good post! I agree with almost everything except for the bolded part, I really really love "Temple of the Cat", it's actually my favorite song of that album and one of my favorite Ayreon songs.

Offline RKW

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1862 on: October 30, 2017, 01:11:45 PM »
Well, it's got great melodies but it's not really that memorable and it just feels 'weaker' overall, but maybe it would also grow on me if I took the time to re-listen to it outside of the album. But One Small Step will without a doubt remain my fave for that album.

Glad that you agree with me on the rest though! ;) You would rank them exactly in the same order?

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1863 on: October 30, 2017, 01:41:52 PM »
Well, it's got great melodies but it's not really that memorable and it just feels 'weaker' overall, but maybe it would also grow on me if I took the time to re-listen to it outside of the album. But One Small Step will without a doubt remain my fave for that album.

Glad that you agree with me on the rest though! ;) You would rank them exactly in the same order?

For me One Small Step and 2084 took the longer to grow on me but now I love the album from start to finish. My ranking would be very similar with the exception of "Into the electric castle":
7. Flight of the Migrator
6. The Final Experiment tied with Into the electric castle
5. The Source
4. 010111001
3. The Dream Sequencer
2. The Human Equation
1. The Theory of Everyhing

The only one I haven't heard is Actual Fantasy.

Offline RKW

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1864 on: October 30, 2017, 01:46:01 PM »
Hmm, if you rank The Final Experiment along with the Electric Castle maybe I would really like it. Why do you rank ITeC so low?

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1865 on: October 30, 2017, 02:00:36 PM »
Hmm, if you rank The Final Experiment along with the Electric Castle maybe I would really like it. Why do you rank ITeC so low?

I guess it hasn't grown on me yet, I hope it does. I really like some songs like: Cosmic Fusion, Valley of the Queens, Across the Rainbow Bridge, Another Time Another Space, however, for the most part, it feels unnecessary long for me and sometimes I zone out when I listen to it. Whereas I like The Final Experiment but it is the first album and I think it feels a little imature in some places.

But even when I rank them low I still like them and think they're good.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1866 on: October 30, 2017, 02:08:27 PM »
I can understand why it sometimes feels long, that was the same for me at the beginning, but in the end I find that almost each section is necessary, it really 'builds' something unique. In that regard, i love The Garden of Emotions, The Mirror Maze, Isis and Osiris, Amazing flight, Time byond time, Evil Devolution... If you like Cosmic Fusion maybe those will grow on you.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1867 on: October 30, 2017, 02:30:09 PM »
I guess I'm the only guy who didn't care for TTOE. It was okay, but easily bottom tier for me.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1868 on: October 30, 2017, 03:01:27 PM »
Good Tier:
9. The Dream Sequencer
8. Flight of the Migrator
7. Actual Fantasy

Very Good Tier:
6. 01011001

Great Tier:
5. The Source
4. The Theory of Everything

God Tier:
3. The Final Experiment
2. Into the Electric Castle
1. The Human Equation

Let me say, there is not a bad Ayreon album, and even my "good" tier I probably regard as very good if I'm not intentionally trying to show my gaps here. The Migrator discs each have some fantastic songs, but as a whole a lot less to get excited about overall. If it was one disc of the best stuff it would move up a ton I think, though it would also lose the intended points of the albums. Some may be surprised to see Actual Fantasy so high, and I will say that I have only known that album in 5.1 with real drums (revisited), and I think that helps my impression a lot.

The Final Experiment is the most impressive Ayreon album. Before he had notoriety, before all the big names, before all the resources, before having stable label support he cranked out an amazing rock opera that just barely site below his most widely loved and known works.

I also find it interesting, looking at this now, that having gotten into Ayreon with The Human Equation that the six albums released at that time are so polarized for me. Three at the top, three at the bottom, and alternating perfectly as well, while the three albums released since are in the middle.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1869 on: October 30, 2017, 03:09:23 PM »
I guess I'm the only guy who didn't care for TTOE. It was okay, but easily bottom tier for me.

Not the only one.  Some great performances, and some great moments... but as a whole, it feels discombobulated.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1870 on: October 30, 2017, 04:02:05 PM »
My issues with The Theory of Everything did not have to do with the music (we all know that the music from Ayreon will be top-notch), but it was hard for me to find sympathy for the main character of the story compared to Me in The Human Equation which was funny given that Me seemed like an a-hole at times.

It also did not help that The Theory of Everything is basically 4 20 minute songs and that I do not much have the biggest urges to relisten through those and that The Human Equation has plenty of standalone songs with plenty of repeat value.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1871 on: October 30, 2017, 04:18:52 PM »
1. The Human Equation
2. The Theory Of Everything
3. The Source (still fresh, this could move up or down after some time)
4. Flight Of The Migrator (this was my first exposure to Ayreon so it's still special for me)
5. 00001111
6. Into The Electric Castle
7. The Final Experiment
8. The Dream Sequencer
9. Actual Fantasy

But even the ones at the bottom are really good records, I love all of them.
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Offline RKW

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1872 on: October 31, 2017, 05:14:53 AM »
My issues with The Theory of Everything did not have to do with the music (we all know that the music from Ayreon will be top-notch), but it was hard for me to find sympathy for the main character of the story compared to Me in The Human Equation which was funny given that Me seemed like an a-hole at times.

It also did not help that The Theory of Everything is basically 4 20 minute songs and that I do not much have the biggest urges to relisten through those and that The Human Equation has plenty of standalone songs with plenty of repeat value.

Well for me it was harder to connect with 'Me' from The Human Equation, perhaps because 'Me' alone is not all of the personnality since there are also all the emotions. And the 4 big songs made me want to listen to them over and over again because they are long and so there was a lot to dig at once.

The Final Experiment is the most impressive Ayreon album. Before he had notoriety, before all the big names, before all the resources, before having stable label support he cranked out an amazing rock opera that just barely site below his most widely loved and known works.

I got a feeling I will really like The final experiment!


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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1873 on: October 31, 2017, 09:38:15 AM »
I've never thought of TTOE as 4 long songs, i always think of it as a lot of tiny songs that usually follow inti each other nicely. I love that, it was the first time i heard something like that.

I often listen to the pieces as stand alone songs.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1874 on: October 31, 2017, 10:32:12 AM »
Well, I think that works for some and not really for others. As I've already said, I tend to think of it as scenes. For instance, Mirror of Dreams can work very well as a stand alone short song, but I can't listen to The Lightouse without The Argument 2 because they are very connected. And since they are all more or less connected, I have to listen to them in order for the most part, which is the equivalent of listening to 4 big songs. But yes, it is unclear whether it is 4 long songs or 42 short ones, and I think it doesn't really matter. But in the end I have to listen to it in order, at least in order in one Phase at a time. I can start listening from 'The Rivals Dilemma' to the end of Phase 2 for example, that works.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1875 on: October 31, 2017, 10:58:20 AM »
But yes, it is unclear whether it is 4 long songs or 42 short ones, and I think it doesn't really matter.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1876 on: November 01, 2017, 02:01:33 AM »
After finishing my journey through Threshold discography (which was fantastic to be honest), I've started another one - through Arjen's music. For that time I've heard only The Human Equation, something about 7 years ago and I was blown away. Now it's time to get known with every Ayreon album. I've started off with first Arjen's album Pools Of Sorrow, Winds Of Joy and yesterday I've reached Into The Electric Castle. My rankings up to this time are:

1. Into The Electric Castle
2. Actual Fantasy
3. Pools Of Sorrow, Winds Of Joy
4. The Final Experiment

Into The Electric Castle is such a long one ;) but, it's great, though one listen through it's not too much to get into it. Actual Fantasy has some very specific atmosphere which I like. Pools and Winds is pure fun album for me, very enjoyable. And The Final Experiment... I dunnk, maybe it's too cheesy for me ;)

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1877 on: November 01, 2017, 03:56:32 AM »
Wow I don't even own Pools. And cheesy is a term used a lot in regard to Arjen! Great journey yet to come!  :tup
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1878 on: November 01, 2017, 01:35:25 PM »
Wow I don't even own Pools. And cheesy is a term used a lot in regard to Arjen! Great journey yet to come!  :tup
I hope so ;) I will be relistetning Electric Castle today to get more into that one. Very good album.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1879 on: December 07, 2017, 12:16:52 PM »
Ayreon is performing live again next year, only concert that year. Graspop metal meeting! he's taking the full production with him :-)

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1880 on: December 07, 2017, 12:34:48 PM »
Any word on what he's playing? Is it a "variety show" from some of the albums/projects or it more like The Theater Equation? I mean, there's probably a 0% chance I'll be able to see it because money, but I'm curious.

And my ranking:

1. The Human Equation
2. The Theory of Everything
3. 01011001
4. Into the Electric Castle
5. The Source
6. Universal Migrator 2
7. Universal Migrator 1

Haven't listened to Actual Fantasy or The Final Experiment yet. Oops. Should get around to that.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1881 on: December 07, 2017, 12:44:45 PM »
I assume it's gonna be an abridged version (because of festival time contraints) of the shows they played last September:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/ayreon/2017/poppodium-013-tilburg-netherlands-23e2249f.html
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1882 on: December 07, 2017, 01:33:13 PM »
Wow that must have been a hell of show, almost 30 Arjen songs? 3 hours easily... :metal

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1883 on: December 07, 2017, 01:43:19 PM »
i was at the first show, and that production is really stellar. Best i've witnessed. Go check out some youtubevideos for reference.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1884 on: December 08, 2017, 05:31:05 PM »
That is extremely cool, and in a tent, which is great for atmosphere (assuming it is at an earlier slot). Graspop has a fantastic lineup, but I don't think I will go unfortunately.

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1885 on: December 08, 2017, 06:17:22 PM »
Wow that must have been a hell of show, almost 30 Arjen songs? 3 hours easily... :metal

Many songs where cut down from their original versions, shows were 2.5 houre, which included 15 minutes of Arjen talking.
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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1886 on: December 27, 2017, 06:27:09 PM »
I was listening to The Source, March of The Machines started playing. Since it's a Prequel to the 01 story, I decided to splice MoTM into Age of Shadows, making Age of Shadows heavy full band intro start right after "The Age of Shadows will begin" in MoTM. Really great move there by Arjen, it works really well, and makes the circle complete. haha
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Offline busty sinclair

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1887 on: December 28, 2017, 07:15:34 AM »
the theory of everything is my favorite of his as well maybe my favorite rock opera of all time. amazing stuff especially as the album is wrapping up

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1888 on: January 06, 2018, 10:50:58 AM »
Arjen is selling his house which includes his Electric Castle studio. Surprised by this. Wonder what his future plans are regarding recording.

https://bravewords.com/news/ayreon-mastermind-arjen-lucassen-selling-house-in-the-netherlands-including-electric-castle-studio

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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: Ayreon/Arjen Lucassen Thread (The Source, April 28, 2017)
« Reply #1889 on: January 06, 2018, 11:06:51 AM »
He's moving to a larger place because of lack of room, or (as Lori says) 'clutter'.  ;D
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