Author Topic: Kamelot  (Read 150258 times)

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Online cramx3

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1050 on: April 19, 2018, 08:04:06 AM »
Yea, you are lucky and I am jelly

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1051 on: April 19, 2018, 11:41:31 AM »
There's a discussion about Kamelot raging in a rather large Facebook power metal group I'm part of and boy did people tear me a new one for my opinions on their discography. Serious business, different views produce seething rage in others.  :lol :lol

EDIT: I think the only thing the entire Kamelot fanbase has in common is that the first two albums are the absolute weakest. From that point on it's a crapshoot, hell opinions might be more varied than those of Rush.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1052 on: April 19, 2018, 11:54:43 AM »
There's a discussion about Kamelot raging in a rather large Facebook power metal group I'm part of and boy did people tear me a new one for my opinions on their discography. Serious business, different views produce seething rage in others.  :lol :lol

EDIT: I think the only thing the entire Kamelot fanbase has in common is that the first two albums are the absolute weakest. From that point on it's a crapshoot, hell opinions might be more varied than those of Rush.

Well, your opinions are fairly different so I get that it would start some discussion... but rage, seriously? lol it's just music, we all have different opinions. 

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1053 on: April 19, 2018, 08:11:01 PM »
Three shows into the tour and not a single video of the new songs?  I guess I'll just have to do it myself  :lol  Show is officially sold out now and I have a VIP balcony ticket  :metal

I've listened enough to TST to be able to form a rough ranking:

The Proud and the Broken
Ravenlight
Phantom Divine
Amnesiac
In Twilight Hours
Mindfall Remedy
Kevlar Skin
Burns to Embrace
Vespertine
Static
Stories Unheard

Online Adami

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1054 on: April 19, 2018, 08:18:56 PM »
Stories Unheard

I think that’s the one I skipped about halfway through.
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1055 on: April 20, 2018, 01:59:08 AM »
Just booked tickets for the London show - shame I've gotta wait till December though!

So yesterday I downloaded all the bonus tracks that I didn't get with my copies of the albums.  My plan was to insert the tracks into the albums with sensible placement - rather than tacked on at the end.  However I found out collecting the bonus tracks I'd downloaded with the bonus tracks I already had, I actually had an albums worth of material - so I created.....

Kamelot - At First Light (I chose this name because I actually found some Kamelot artwork for it, so that is my cover).

1. Thespian Drama.  (From Poetry for the Poisoned).
Ever Kamelot album starts with an Instrumental intro - at nearly 4 minutes long this is actually more than an intro.

2. Snow (From Epica).
Epica had been the Kamelot album I struggled to get into most - I'm there now, however if they'd left this track in it would have made it easier.  This is a top 3 Epica track.

3. The Ties The Bind (Haven).
Haven songs generally stuck to a (winning) formula, mid/fast tempo songs with huge hooky laden choruses and this song follow that formula - while this isn't a real top tier Haven track, it more than holds it own.

4. Season's End (Ghost Opera).
The downside to creating this is you lessen Ghost Opera.  This song is simply awesome and I did considered it the best track on Ghost Opera.

5. Grace (Silverthorn).
This is interesting track that sounds a bit different from the standard Kamelot sound, mid tempo with a great chorus.

6. Leaving Too Soon (Silverthorn). 
This maybe about Roy leaving the band.  It's a actually a really awesome song - some great Tommy falsetto on the chorus and a nice bouncy orchestral riff.

7. The Pendulous Falls. (Ghost Opera) 
Another good song taken from Ghost Opera.  Not as great as Season's End but still was somewhere in the middle of Ghost Opera tracks.

8. At First Light (Haven). 
The title track  ;D  This one starts with a cool melody - but overall it's a little flat, unlike most Haven tracks the chorus of this one fails to elevate it.  It's an OK song.

9. Where The Wild Roses Grow (Poetry). 
It's a Nick Cave cover.  I've always liked the song and it fits the Kamelot mold really well - it's the classic female duet ballad that most recent Kamelot albums contain.

10. Like The Shadows (Karma). 
Now this is different.   Sounds like an 80's rock song maybe something that would fit on the Lost Boys soundtrack, there is a slight unfinished feel too it with only one verse - overall it's decent enough.

11. The Last Day of Sunlight (The Shadow Theory). 
When I ranked the songs of The Shadow Theory I put this 8th which I think is still fair.

12. Once and Future King (Karma). 
Disclaimer : I hate the name Kamelot - I expected cheesy fantasy shite.  This song is about the Arthurian legend by Kamelot - Oh Dear........but, but it's actually, well it's actually cheesy as fuck.   Depict all this I actually like it, there is an 80's Maiden vibe about it.

13. Welcome Home (Silverthorn). 
Hmm OK.  A short plaintive ballad.  Just Tommy and one guitar - It's probably the only song that feels like a b-side.  It's not without value, but it's the weakest track by far.

14. Epilogue (Ghost Opera/Black Halo). 
This is weird in the sense it's a Black Halo track, but came as a Bonus on Ghost Opera.  The title makes it have to be the final track really, it's good and has a really nice outro.

So this 'album' has a running time of 53 minutes has most of the hallmarks of a standard Kamelot album.  There are some real top tier Kamelot tracks (Snow, Season's End & Leaving Too Soon) - I personally think it holds up pretty well.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 02:15:36 AM by soupytwist »

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1056 on: April 20, 2018, 02:15:48 AM »
Season's End is the best of the bunch and is better than half songs on Ghost Opera.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1057 on: April 22, 2018, 07:10:37 AM »
Season's End is the best of the bunch and is better than half songs on Ghost Opera.

Yup.  I also really enjoy Snow.

The concert on Friday was really awesome.  I think being sold out, made it feel a bit special, as Kamelot had said during it, it was their first time ever selling out in NY (and I think they can thank Delain for that though).  The crowd was on fire, singing a long and chanting all night to all three bands.  Battle Beast was really fun.  They really brought it to the stage too.  Felt like a band who had something to prove.  6 people on stage in front of two other band's equipment meant they didn't have much to work but they put on a show.  Really respect them after seeing them.  Might not be totally my music, but enjoyed them.  Next was Delain who you could tell have really built up a following in NYC.  They've played NYC 6/7 years so they put their time in inlcuding headlining last year at a similar venue.  There was one moment where the crowd wouldn't stop cheering for them.  I have it in my video, 90 seconds straight of just cheering between songs and Delain just kind of soaked it all in.  Really cool moment.  And Charlotte was hardly wearing anything, I was kind of surprised by how sexy she was.  I mean, shes always been kind on the eyes, but being my 5th time seeing them, never really saw her with such little cloths on  :lol

Then we had Kamelot.  I found out earlier in the day that the new Kamelot Nunez wasn't performing with them.  He had an apparent leg injury and Kamelot had to rush in an emergency back up drummer who happened to be Alex Landenburg who I just saw a couple months ago with Cyhra.  Kind of cool to see another drummer, although bummed to not get to see the new drummer.  I'd say his playing was really basic and kind of felt more like just keeping the beat vs. playing an art.  I don't blame him at all, he had to learn the songs quickly.  I don't think this took anything away from the show.  Tommy brought it as always.  He's just sooooo good.  The set list is not really that interesting and I found Lauren Hart to not be that good.  Feels like Kamelot's touring female has gone down in quality since Alyssa.  (I'm not a big Kobra Page fan).   

Having said all that, I think this was my favorite Kamelot or Delain show Ive seen.  Seems like everyone wanted to out perform each other and put on a show because they had a really excited crowd. 

Kamelot, Delain, and Battle Beast Live at Irving Plaza
Kamelot - Phantom Divine Live in New York City
Kamelot - Amnesiac Live in New York City

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1058 on: April 22, 2018, 11:18:28 AM »
Awesome videos!

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1059 on: April 24, 2018, 12:19:14 PM »
Thanks, so work is sending me to Denver next week and just noticed that the Kamelot tour stops there next week.  I can't make the decision now as work will dictate my schedule, but if I am available next Tuesday night, I may go see the show again.   :metal

Offline robbob

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1060 on: May 01, 2018, 10:57:44 AM »
Great videos cramx3. Couldn't agree with you more. Went to the show the other night in Chicago, was a lot better then I expected. All 3 bands brought it  Battle Beast really rocked, their enthusiasm was really infectious - not really my favorite type of Metal now, when I was 15 yeah, but still enjoyed them.  Delain was really good, what a great front-woman Charlotte is, cool and unique band. First time seeing Kamelot after being a fan for quite a few years. Tommy was awesome, Thomas was as well, but I think that's a given for both of these guys. Setlist was good IMO, nice mix of new and a few older tunes.

Overall, great concert. Wasn't really excited about going after initially listening to The Shadow Theory and a little of Delain, but all of the new tunes came across very well live.

On a different note, got into a few conversations regarding who do you prefer, Tommy or Khan.
I'm more of a fan of Khan, he sang with so much passion and energy, plus overall the music was more interesting. But, after watching quite a few videos of Khan live from the early days until 2010, he lost a lot of range and struggled often in the later days. People say it might have been vocal fatigue and the years of touring taking it's toll. I think it was obvious that he needed a long break and then decided to give it up. So with that being said I totally understand his decision.  I'm basically over the thought of Man I wish he was still in the band.

And, Tommy was a great choice for a replacement.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1061 on: May 01, 2018, 10:59:58 AM »
Yeah, it was heartbreaking to see Khan go, but as far as the band's longevity and their live performances go, it was a blessing in disguise.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1062 on: May 01, 2018, 11:44:25 AM »
I never really looked back to see that Khan was struggling in the end so never really thought about that.

Anyway, I really think I might be able to make it out to the show tonight in Denver.  Been listening to TST much more lately since I saw them a couple weeks ago and it's growing on me.  The first half of the album is really strong then it fades until the final track.  Im thinking if I combined the best of Haven and The Shadow Theory that it would make one really awesome album.  Tommy actually said in an interview that TST was really an extension of Haven so I guess that could explain why it sounds so alike.  If I accept that, I find I can enjoy the album much more. 

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1063 on: May 13, 2018, 08:04:17 AM »
Just listened to The Shadow Theory. I think the problem seems to be that the actual power metal is basically gone. There are still shades of it in 'Phantom Divine' and 'Kevlar Skin'. But the vast majority of the material has no real metallic edge to it whatsoever. Doesn't help that the guitars are so low in the mix. Songs like 'Static' just don't feel right on a Kamelot album and the choruses are mostly pretty phoned in. Also, I don't think the album sounds particularly cohesive as a whole. The flow is actually pretty bad, with 'Kevlar Skin' coming in between two ballads. The sequencing just doesn't seem to carry the momentum that well.

In some ways, it's a little bit like Poetry for the Poisoned. Low energy combined with awkward deviations from the band's sound. I don't think the issue is that it's too similar to Haven. Maybe song-by-song (Phantom = Veil of Elysium, Ravenlight = Insomnia etc.), but the overall focus seems a little different. Haven plays more to the band's strengths and had more highlights. The best songs on there can compete with the band's overall best, while the best on The Shadow Theory is merely good. 'Insomnia', 'Citizen Zero', 'Veil of Elysium', 'My Therapy', 'Liar Liar' and 'Revolution' are all significantly better than the best stuff on The Shadow Theory IMO.

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1064 on: September 11, 2018, 02:38:56 AM »
This friday I will see them live again, looking forward to it! It is a special show for the dvd recording, featuring three guests, Alissa (Arch Enemy), Charlotte (Delain), and Elize (Amaranthe). And according to their fb they have some surprises in store, though I expect a mostly predictable setlist. Anyways, I hope they play as well as they did last time I saw them, because that would make for an awesome recording  ;D

Just listened to The Shadow Theory. I think the problem seems to be that the actual power metal is basically gone. There are still shades of it in 'Phantom Divine' and 'Kevlar Skin'. But the vast majority of the material has no real metallic edge to it whatsoever. Doesn't help that the guitars are so low in the mix. Songs like 'Static' just don't feel right on a Kamelot album and the choruses are mostly pretty phoned in. Also, I don't think the album sounds particularly cohesive as a whole. The flow is actually pretty bad, with 'Kevlar Skin' coming in between two ballads. The sequencing just doesn't seem to carry the momentum that well.

In some ways, it's a little bit like Poetry for the Poisoned. Low energy combined with awkward deviations from the band's sound. I don't think the issue is that it's too similar to Haven. Maybe song-by-song (Phantom = Veil of Elysium, Ravenlight = Insomnia etc.), but the overall focus seems a little different. Haven plays more to the band's strengths and had more highlights. The best songs on there can compete with the band's overall best, while the best on The Shadow Theory is merely good. 'Insomnia', 'Citizen Zero', 'Veil of Elysium', 'My Therapy', 'Liar Liar' and 'Revolution' are all significantly better than the best stuff on The Shadow Theory IMO.

Yeah, I agree with this. I like their latest album, but it lacks the punch Haven had for me. Maybe live it will be different.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1065 on: September 11, 2018, 05:17:20 AM »
I think Shadow Theory is easily the best Tommy Kamelot album.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Evermind

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1066 on: September 11, 2018, 05:25:13 AM »
I'm the opposite. I've heard it once and have no desire to spin it again.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1067 on: September 11, 2018, 05:29:24 AM »
I'm the opposite. I've heard it once and have no desire to spin it again.



It's not that it was bad, but it was absolutely nothing new from Kamelot.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1068 on: September 11, 2018, 07:59:46 AM »
Because rankings are fun.

Of course not including the first 3 albums.

1. Karma
2. Epica
3. The Black Halo
4. Silverthorn
5. The 4th Legacy
6. Haven
7. Poetry for the Poisoned
8. Ghost Opera
9. The Shadow Theory

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1069 on: September 14, 2018, 05:19:19 PM »
Just came back from their dvd recording. That should be a great watch! Great performance and great visuals. Good enthousiastic crowd in a sold out venue as well (same venue as the Ayreon Universe shows). However, I do think for many here it will be too much new songs. But that at least will make it very distinct from their last live album.

Setlist was mostly Tommy era, but given the great performances (and me loving Silverthorn and Haven), I don't mind. I don't like some of the songs they played live here on their respective studio albums, but really liked them when actually seeing them live (Burns to Embrace and Under Grey Skies, for example). Guests were also great, on top of the four female vocalists (Lauren, Elize, Charlotte, and Alissa), there were Eklipse on strings and a couple of children singing.

My only major complain is Here's to the Fall, I just don't like that song at all and would've loved Song for Jolee or Don't Your Cry or something. Hell, I prefer any Kamelot ballad over that one. Oh, and the sound was a bit shoddy at some points, but that at least shouldn't affect the recordings.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1070 on: September 14, 2018, 05:26:52 PM »
Totally agree about Here's to the Fall, but damn that actually looks like a pretty cool setlist and I love all the guests.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1071 on: September 14, 2018, 05:27:39 PM »
I am cool with that setlist since soooo much of their good stuff was on their last DVD, I wouldn't want much of that on this one.

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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1072 on: September 15, 2018, 12:33:40 PM »
Yeah, I thought this setlist had a great pacing and there were no real low points for me. Despite me disliking Here's to the Fall, Tommy standing in the middle of the audience (at the booth of the sound guys) with lots of people using their torch (phone) was a cool moment. Also, don't know if this is a new thing, but Liar Liar was their encore, which I think works really well, awesome live track.

I am cool with that setlist since soooo much of their good stuff was on their last DVD, I wouldn't want much of that on this one.

Did sexy blue hair girl sing/scream on Mephisto?

Yeah, she did! Alissa makes several appearances throughout the concert.

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1073 on: September 16, 2018, 04:00:12 PM »
Wait a minute, what?! Roy Kahn apparently comes out of "retirement"?

Apparently his prog metal band conception will do a reunion, including him as the vocalist. There was a (successful) crowdfunding campaign a couple of months back. I was aware of the Roy Kahn song put up by Roy himself on youtube (which is great in my opinion, except for the lyrics being a bit too much on the nose). But this is set up to be actual prog metal. Not very familiar with conception though, just good to hear Roy is making some metal again. 

The now closed campaign: https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/conception-ep And here is their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/conceptionmusi2/

Honestly surprised I missed that, probably would've pledged.

Release of their EP is apparently planned for November this year.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1074 on: September 16, 2018, 05:10:41 PM »
Oh yeah, I saw the ProgPower community go nuts on Facebook recently when that was announced.  :lol Conception ain't really my bag but I'll check it out because, well, Roy! I was actually thinking they might be announced for PP next year but oh well.
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Offline Evermind

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1075 on: September 17, 2018, 12:32:54 AM »
I remember it being discussed somewhere in GMD a few months ago. Or maybe I saw it on FB.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1076 on: September 17, 2018, 04:18:17 AM »
So, on the tour for the new album they play most of the previous one (more songs than during the actual tour of said album) and one of the best songs off the new album gets the live premiere only because of the DVD recording? I'm a bit meh about this. I'm sure the show went down greatly, and I should be happy that they play so much off an album I love way more than the previous one, but I'm not sure I will be checking them out when they'll tour nearby me. On one hand, I know their show is great and Tommy kicks ass, on the other hand, having seen the Haven tour, I can't find any "OMG CAN'T MISS THIS FOR THE WORLD" stuff on the setlist.

Anyway, the setlist for the show is mostly fine, I'd just drop Rule the World forever and ever and also The Great Pandemonium, for maybe two Khan tracks - a classic one (Center of the Universe? Ghost Opera?) and maybe a gem like The Fourth Legacy or Wings of Despair. But I'm sure the DVD will look great the way it is.
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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1077 on: September 17, 2018, 05:11:08 AM »
So, on the tour for the new album they play most of the previous one (more songs than during the actual tour of said album) and one of the best songs off the new album gets the live premiere only because of the DVD recording? I'm a bit meh about this. I'm sure the show went down greatly, and I should be happy that they play so much off an album I love way more than the previous one, but I'm not sure I will be checking them out when they'll tour nearby me. On one hand, I know their show is great and Tommy kicks ass, on the other hand, having seen the Haven tour, I can't find any "OMG CAN'T MISS THIS FOR THE WORLD" stuff on the setlist.

Anyway, the setlist for the show is mostly fine, I'd just drop Rule the World forever and ever and also The Great Pandemonium, for maybe two Khan tracks - a classic one (Center of the Universe? Ghost Opera?) and maybe a gem like The Fourth Legacy or Wings of Despair. But I'm sure the DVD will look great the way it is.

For the DVD, I think it was the right decision. We haven't had a pro shot live recording (of a whole concert) for many years and this DVD will be representative for the Tommy-era live shows of the last couple of years. And I can assure people the performances were fantastic.

I think Kamelot is heavily aiming to make their newer, Tommy-era songs the new "classics". And in order to achieve that, they need to play them a lot. And personally I think it is working (at least over here people are clearly singing along with plenty of the newer songs). They have had their best album sales and best selling tours of their careers in recent years, as well as an overall bigger online presence. A spark in popularity allows the artists to build upon those new fans with the newer songs that attracted those people.

That said, for this tour in general I would like to see them take a couple of classic tracks and swap them for others. And in the future it would be great if they did something like Nightwish is doing, a legacy type of tour covering a lot of classic songs. Kamelot definitely has the material to do that and I think Tommy will do a great job.

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1078 on: September 17, 2018, 05:36:31 AM »
We already have a DVD from the Black Halo era, so I have no problem with them playing a ton of their newer songs.  It does kinda suck that they've really abandoned some of the old stuff, but kudos to them for pushing forward and playing mostly songs from the albums with Tommy and still achieving a lot of success. 

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1079 on: September 17, 2018, 01:05:15 PM »
We already have a DVD from the Black Halo era, so I have no problem with them playing a ton of their newer songs.  It does kinda suck that they've really abandoned some of the old stuff, but kudos to them for pushing forward and playing mostly songs from the albums with Tommy and still achieving a lot of success.

Which is actually something I wish more bands would do with their newer albums. It shows you really have faith in the new albums, and you're fans will love the show anyways.

I'll likely buy this DVD even though I haven't heard much from the albums with Tommy.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1080 on: September 17, 2018, 01:19:57 PM »
I'm fine with the set for the DVD, makes sense to get the Tommy era stuff immortalized.  But their touring setlists are really bad IMO if you've already seen Kamelot before.  They just don't switch things up enough and then they don't even play enough new stuff.  It's really just the same songs over and over.  They just released a music video for Mindfall Remedy, so why aren't they playing it? 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1081 on: September 17, 2018, 01:23:40 PM »
Yeah their live performance is great but the sets need to be way better imo.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1082 on: September 17, 2018, 01:38:18 PM »
I'm fine with the set for the DVD, makes sense to get the Tommy era stuff immortalized.  But their touring setlists are really bad IMO if you've already seen Kamelot before.  They just don't switch things up enough and then they don't even play enough new stuff.  It's really just the same songs over and over.  They just released a music video for Mindfall Remedy, so why aren't they playing it?

Thats why I feel a lot of us got spoiled from DT sets of old. Haha...but its what bands usually do. But then if those bands did change the sets dramatically keeping only one fan favorite, a lot of the fan base would bitch. Especially if that fan favorite isn't the main song, it'd be like C&C not playing Welcome Home.


Also, I wish I could see Kamelot live one day. For me, its about seeing the band live regardless of what they play. Since hardly anyone I really love comes by here, I try to jump at every chance I can to see them. Blind Guardian came and it was just before I really listened to them, I knew I should've went anyways and I kick myself for missing it. Even though I do complain about setlist, I still go because its the band playing live in my state.
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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1083 on: September 17, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
I am still going to see Kamelot next year (bought my ticket already) and it'll be the 6th time seeing them.  I think the fans would be OK if they swapped say When The Lights Are Down with The Black Halo or The Great Pandemonium with Once Upon a Time.  Just to switch it up a bit.  It seems every tour they get less and less creative with their set lists.  At least 5 years ago they Dont You Cry which I felt was a nice change up for them to go and do an older song with Tommy.  And it was magical how good that was. 

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Re: Kamelot
« Reply #1084 on: September 17, 2018, 04:19:25 PM »
I think over time it will improve. If you think about it, the majority of their setlist stems from the last six years/three albums. Though there isn't that much variation between tours, it is not like they have been doing this for decades long. As I said in my previous post I think it has partially to do with them trying to establish newer songs amongst their fans. Of that bunch Liar Liar and Sacrimony, for example, are there to stay. I think that with one or two more Tommy-era albums, there will be more variation.

 But in the meantime, they should definitely switch up the Kahn-era songs and swap two Silverthorn/Haven songs for other Silverthorn/Haven songs. I would looove to see them play Prodigal Son, for example.

I agree that seeing them tour after tour can give a mich too similar feeling, I have seen them 5 times over five years now. I do think Dutch fans are a bit lucky considering they often do a special song (Welcome Home or End of Innocence acoustic) or add another twist to the show (larger scale or a more intimate setting, special guests).