Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[Stadler]

As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.

I think I'm alone in this, but I feel the two latter day Dio-Sabbath albums are underwhelming.  I think they fell into stereotypes at that point.  Dio had to be the growling heavy metal wizard, and Iommi had to be the Riff-master General.   I think 13 absolutely BLOWS away both the later Dio records.  There are bits and pieces on 13 that are reminiscent of all eight Ozzy-era Sabbath records, and that's a good thing.  It's 3D.  It's got character. 

Controversial statement alert:  I think Dio is only the second best lyricist in that band.  I MUCH prefer Geezer's lyrics over Dio's.

[wolfking]

As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.

I think I'm alone in this, but I feel the two latter day Dio-Sabbath albums are underwhelming.  I think they fell into stereotypes at that point.  Dio had to be the growling heavy metal wizard, and Iommi had to be the Riff-master General.   I think 13 absolutely BLOWS away both the later Dio records.  There are bits and pieces on 13 that are reminiscent of all eight Ozzy-era Sabbath records, and that's a good thing.  It's 3D.  It's got character. 

Controversial statement alert:  I think Dio is only the second best lyricist in that band.  I MUCH prefer Geezer's lyrics over Dio's.

I see no issues with that.

[TAC]

Yeah that’s not really controversial.

[ozzy554]

Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes. 

[pg1067]

Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.

There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did.  The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ).  I'm waiting for him to do Dio.  It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"

[LudwigVan]

Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.

There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did.  The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ).  I'm waiting for him to do Dio.  It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"

Don’t forget the rainbows!

[El Barto]

Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.

There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did.  The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ).  I'm waiting for him to do Dio.  It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"

That's a wonderful idea, and the guy did a great job of making it a song. The thing is, it's not really writing lyrics in the style of ACDC, but rather taking lyrics from ACDC and mashing them all together. In any case, Too many Women with Too Many Balls was absolutely inspired. 

Also, I'm pretty sure that the "AI" would just spit out My Eyes and call it a day. It's the same trick.

[Grappler]

I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs.   Both records are really good though. 

Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.

[wolfking]

Was pumping Headless Cross this morning travelling around for work.  Outstanding.

[Stadler]

I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs.   Both records are really good though. 

Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.

I listened to 13 yesterday, and what I call "13 1/2" (the four bonus songs from the "13" album deluxe version, plus the four studio songs from "The End" EP) and I love that album.  Ozzy doesn't sound great, but it all works.  I saw that show in Mansfield, MA, with Rival Sons opening.  What a good show.

[ozzy554]

I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs.   Both records are really good though. 

Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.

I listened to 13 yesterday, and what I call "13 1/2" (the four bonus songs from the "13" album deluxe version, plus the four studio songs from "The End" EP) and I love that album.  Ozzy doesn't sound great, but it all works. I saw that show in Mansfield, MA, with Rival Sons opening.  What a good show.

Agreed and I got to see Hand of Doom live which is one of my favorites.

[WardySI]

I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs.   Both records are really good though. 

Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.

Headless Cross has grown on me so much over the past few years I'd almost rank it ahead of Cross Purposes maybe not The Eternal Idol but that's saying something

[gazinwales]

Tony Martin isolated vocals from Headless Cross.
https://youtu.be/5f9MGHvvt98

[gazinwales]

Happy Birthday to Anthony Philip Harford who is 63 years young today.

[Grappler]

Those isolated vocals are amazing!

[El Barto]

Those isolated vocals are amazing!

I found them fascinating. I never would have guessed that so much reverb went into vocal tracks. I certainly don't hear it on the album, but I suspect that I'd instantly notice if the reverb were removed. I imagine there are a lot of things like that which go into making an album sound good, and HC does, that we never really pick up on.

[ProfessorPeart]

Iommi is thinking about remixing Born Again as they finally tracked down the masters. He also mentions a Tony Martin box. I'm on board for both. Let's get them out already.

https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-says-he-may-be-remixing-born-again-we-have-found-the-original-tapes

[TAC]

I'd be all over a Tony Martin box set, but not for the Born Again EP.

[Stadler]

I'm all over the Tony Martin box set.   In a heartbeat.

[gazinwales]

Yeah same, although I have all the original Martin era on CD, hopefully the remasters (Forbidden remix) will bring something new.

[wolfking]

I'm all over both of those.

[ozzy554]

Maybe we'll see one of these projects released this decade.

[WardySI]

New instrumental Tony posted up couple days back sounds quite great!

(sorry if posted elsewhere already I didn't see it )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xala32PZ5vU

[gazinwales]

Sounds amazing, great to hear and see something new from Tony.

[TAC]

https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbath-born-again-master-tapes-found-tony-iommi-planning-to-remix

Hopefully there's additional tracks.

[wolfking]

New instrumental Tony posted up couple days back sounds quite great!

(sorry if posted elsewhere already I didn't see it )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xala32PZ5vU

Cool shit.

https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbath-born-again-master-tapes-found-tony-iommi-planning-to-remix

Hopefully there's additional tracks.

I love this album.  I never really had an issue with the production but I could definitely see why people would.  Such a strong album and Gillan rips on the whole damn thing.

[TAC]

Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.

[Stadler]

One of the few times when band members ripping on an album bothered me.   I LOVE Born Again.   It's not the best ever, but for what it was, when it came out, I was into it and still am.   Though my friend Jim calls it "Zero The Album".   

[wolfking]

Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.

What do you mean?

One of the few times when band members ripping on an album bothered me.   I LOVE Born Again.   It's not the best ever, but for what it was, when it came out, I was into it and still am.   Though my friend Jim calls it "Zero The Album".   

Yeah, I never understood the criticism.  Heavy, raw, energetic, unique just a wonderful album.  As I said, Gillan is amazing here.  His vocals on the title track are ridiculous.

[TAC]

Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.

What do you mean?

Well, if you remove The Dark and Stonehenge, you're at 7 tracks @ 37m.

Not a fan of Hotline or Keep It Warm so now I'm down to 5 tracks @ 28ms

5 tracks @ 28m = EP!

[wolfking]

Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.

What do you mean?

Well, if you remove The Dark and Stonehenge, you're at 7 tracks @ 37m.

Not a fan of Hotline or Keep It Warm so now I'm down to 5 tracks @ 28ms

5 tracks @ 28m = EP!

Man, Keep it Warm is so good.  Tony's solo here rips.  One of his best moments and such a great buildup.

[TAC]

OK, add it back in, and it's still like 33 minutes.


Honestly, the only songs I really like are Disturbing The Priest and Zero The Hero. Born Again and Trashed are fine and Digital Bitch fucking smokes but that chorus? WTF?



So I have a story about Born Again..

I went to a private catholic high school (my father taught there, and I got into trouble in junior high) which meant that I went to school with kids from all different towns. In the 10th grade, I was in English class and the kid two seats in front of me, who I really didn't know, had a Born Again tour shirt that I could see through his white dress shirt.
Anyway, I started a conversation with him about it, and we became really good friends. In fact he's the only person from high school that am still in contact with. (He's the same guy that had Rik Emmet sing at his wedding.)

[wolfking]

That's a cool little story.

I've never thought or had an issue with the length.  Obviously it was a strained and confusing time for the band, and it showed in the album.  Probably a reason why I like it so much.

[LudwigVan]

That’s classic. A shirt with a satanic devil-baby on it being worn at catholic shool. I read somewhere that when Ian Gillian saw the cover for the album he just did vocals on, he was appalled. 

[ProfessorPeart]

Reign In Blood is just over 28 minutes.