Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[crazy climber dude]

Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw

[Stadler]

Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw

I agree with Madman, frankly.   I LIKE Tony Martin. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw

I agree with Madman, frankly.   I LIKE Tony Martin.

I kept hearing about those mythical demos with Ray and how much better they were and when I finally heard them....underwhelmed. great vocalist of course but compared to Tony just a tad more....generic.

[wolfking]

The Tony Martin era has always been my fav, and still is.  Always loved his voice.

[gazinwales]

The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.

[Stadler]

The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.

I'd pay to hear that.  I'm all in with the first two Dio records - H&H, MR - but I thought the Dehumanizer and Heaven And Hell were a step down, and were trading on cliches.  I've since gone back to Dehumanizer, and it's better than I remember, but I think I prefer Tony Martin to those latter two. So to hear Tony sing on some of that material would be a treat!

[wolfking]

The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.

I'd pay to hear that.

Without question.

[WardySI]

The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.

I'd pay to hear that.

Without question.

+1

[MirrorMask]

Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.

Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.

It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).

A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).

[ozzy554]

The first split is interesting because you get a different story from each person. Dio's side of the story was that him and Vinny would be in the studio for hours by themselves because Iommi & Geezer were usually very late due to their drug usage at the time. So instead of just sitting around they would experiment with the mix a bit just to see how it would sound. Essentially it was a Cocaine fueled misunderstanding between Tony & the engineer. There were other problems in the band at the time and this just pushed it over the edge.

[Stadler]

Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.

Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.

It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).

A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).

If that's the site I'm thinking of, it's by a guy named Joe, and it's unofficial, but he's got a relationship with the band (Geezer in particular if memory serves) and his info is pretty solid.

It's also my understanding that Cozy was really pushing to get the Rising lineup back together.  Who knows if it would have happened?  I know Blackmore reconciled with Coverdale, but it's limited to the social/personal, not the musical.

[El Barto]

Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw

I agree with Madman, frankly.   I LIKE Tony Martin.

I kept hearing about those mythical demos with Ray and how much better they were and when I finally heard them....underwhelmed. great vocalist of course but compared to Tony just a tad more....generic.

I'm a big Tony Martin fan, and you may be on to something about Gillen sounding generic, but Gillen really was the better singer. It's shown in two ways. One, Martin was hit or miss singing live, and his hits weren't all that great. He was never able to pull off live what he could do in the studio. Second, Martin was the only singer who sounded great singing from every era. He even sounded good singing Ozzy's stuff, which none of the others could claim. Rather than the demos, you might check out the Montreal video. With all respect to Tony Martin, I don't think he could have ever pulled this off this well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8

[gazinwales]

Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.

Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.

It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).

A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).

If that's the site I'm thinking of, it's by a guy named Joe, and it's unofficial, but he's got a relationship with the band (Geezer in particular if memory serves) and his info is pretty solid.

It's also my understanding that Cozy was really pushing to get the Rising lineup back together.  Who knows if it would have happened?  I know Blackmore reconciled with Coverdale, but it's limited to the social/personal, not the musical.

Yes I know the site well and have read it quite a few times.
The guy who runs the site has a direct line to Iommi and/or his manager.
Joe actually has given a list of material that he would like to be included on any remastered album and/or box set.

[TAC]

Never been to that site. That's a good one.


Oh, and every year and a half or so when the Tony Martin Era comes up, and everyone declares their love for it, I usually run through the albums and wonder what the hubbub is all about.
Probably going to take the cheese again...

[Stadler]

With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:

- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels

[TAC]

Psychophobia is awesome!

I'll run through the albums I guess.

[faizoff]

Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com

I used to use visit this site religiously back when I was in my discover mode with Sabbath I'd say early 2000's, it's a gold mine of information. That and the now discontinued Iron Maiden Commentary fan site were my go-to sites for all sorts of trivial information regarding the band and albums.

[Stadler]

Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com

I used to use visit this site religiously back when I was in my discover mode with Sabbath I'd say early 2000's, it's a gold mine of information. That and the now discontinued Iron Maiden Commentary fan site were my go-to sites for all sorts of trivial information regarding the band and albums.

I used to spend a lot of time at the Iron Maiden Commentary as well.

[wolfking]

With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:

- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels

Jerusalem is a hidden gem of the Martin era, magic song.

[TAC]

Just ran through The Eternal Idol.

This is a real solid album. The production neuters the guitars and the vocal mix feels a bit off in places, like in the verse to Ancient Warrior. It feels like a vocal track added to the music, but doesn't quite feel part of the music.

Tony Martin sounds incredible though. Very Dio-like in spots.

Lost Forever smokes and has a great melodic solo.

The middle run of Hard Life To Live-Glory Ride-Born To Lose is really consistant.

[wolfking]

Just ran through The Eternal Idol.

This is a real solid album. The production neuters the guitars and the vocal mix feels a bit off in places, like in the verse to Ancient Warrior. It feels like a vocal track added to the music, but doesn't quite feel part of the music.

Tony Martin sounds incredible though. Very Dio-like in spots.

Lost Forever smokes and has a great melodic solo.

The middle run of Hard Life To Live-Glory Ride-Born To Lose is really consistant.

Glory Ride and Born to Lose are probably my favs.  Tony stepped up his soloing in this era too.  That solo in Ancient Warrior is tremendous.

[MirrorMask]

With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:

- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels

Crown of Thorns is absolutely awesome and if it was on a Dio album, it would be a greatly revered track.

[Herrick]

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

Which album was that?

[MirrorMask]

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

Which album was that?

The Devil You Know!

https://open.spotify.com/album/49z8GQTJCQBXVT81k0gXzV

[gazinwales]

https://www.discogs.com/Heaven-Hell-The-Devil-You-Know/master/98550

[wolfking]

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

Which album was that?

Check it mate.

[wolfking]

Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.

[gazinwales]

Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.

Yeah! I often forget about those, but they are killer songs.
I normally tag those on to the end of 'The Devil You Know' when I put it on my iPod.

[Herrick]

It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.

Which album was that?

Check it mate.

Oh that one. I thought he was saying they made an album with Dio in 2006. I never got into that Heaven and Hell album. Twas a bit boring.

[TAC]

As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.

[ozzy554]

I liked the Devil you Know. My least favorite from that lineup but I still enjoy it. Also while we're on the subject of the martin era these are my personal favorites.

Born to Lose
Lost Forever
Glory Ride
Devil & Daughter
When Death Calls
Black Moon
Anno Mundi
Jerusalem
Heaven in Black
I Witness
Immaculate Deception
What's the Use
I won't Cry For You
Shaking Off the Chains
Guilty As Hell

[TAC]

I'm going to run through them before I make a list. Most of the material has just never stuck with me.

[MirrorMask]

Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.

Yeah! I often forget about those, but they are killer songs.
I normally tag those on to the end of 'The Devil You Know' when I put it on my iPod.

I re-sequenced the album to include them. And yes, three songs, three killer tracks.

[wolfking]

I'm not a Queen fan but the solo on When Death Calls is probably one of my top 5 Sabbath moments.  Top song too but that solo from May is just unbelievable.  Wish he did some metal.

[Stadler]

With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:

- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels

Crown of Thorns is absolutely awesome and if it was on a Dio album, it would be a greatly revered track.

It was:  "Children Of The Sea".     

I kid, and that shows a lot more disrespect to CoT than it deserves.  Though having said that, I remember playing that track to a friend who was a hard core Dio fan, and he had trouble telling the voices apart at first.