Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[Stadler]

That is so interesting, thanks for the information. It's unbelievable how I even got to see Sabbath live, the set list said "Embryo/Children of the grave" afterwards, and I remember thinking "wait, I haven't heard Embryo!" 

Haha.   

[wolfking]

Wow, I never even knew about The Haunting.  First I'm hearing about it.  Have to go back and check it out.

[kirksnosehair]

Hmm, I always knew it as Embryo and I'm old enough to have seen Black Sabbath live with Ozzy and later with Dio on vocals.   God, I was tripping SO hard when I saw them with Dio that it kind of freaked me out during "Sign of the Southern Cross" I was peaking on 2 hits of Window Pane Acid.      That was a crazy night.  I couldn't drive home until about 6 am because I was still tripping my balls off and didn't want to risk it. 

[Stadler]

Wow, I never even knew about The Haunting.  First I'm hearing about it.  Have to go back and check it out.

Sabbath did that a lot. 

Wasp/Behind The Wall Of Sleep
Bassically/N.I.B.
A Bit Of Finger/Sleeping Village
War Pigs/Luke's Wall
Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots
The Elegy/After Forever
Step Up/Lord OF This World
Deathmask/Into The Void
Wheel's Of Confusion/The Straightener
Under The Sun/Every Day Comes And Goes

Some are real (the "Bassically" intro to N.I.B., the instrumental outro Luke's Wall) some are more iffy, like The Elegy, which is basically 15 seconds of keyboard swirl.   I can't even tell you what "Step Up" and "Deathmask" really are, other than the intro riff to the actual song.

[pg1067]

Hmmm...I had a record back in the day.  For whatever reason, I didn't replace it with a CD at or before the time that I dumped the last of my vinyl records in the late 90s, and I only bought a CD for Master of Reality last year.

I'm pretty sure Embryo has always been Embryo, and I can't recall ever hearing of "The Haunting" and always attributed that stuff at the end of Children of the Grave to "crap they did at the end because they had time and were stoned."

[Stadler]

The Embryo
Children Of The Grave/The Haunting   "The Haunting" starts at 4:25

[wolfking]

Yeah, I know all them but literally never heard of The Haunting before.  Huh!

Pretty sure Step Up and Deathmask are just that, the intro riffs to the songs.

[ozzy554]

Another demo has been released by the estate of Geoff Nicholls. The title of the song appears to be Slapback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y

[pg1067]

Another demo has been released by the estate of Geoff Nicholls. The title of the song appears to be Slapback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y

That was kinda meh, but here's the link for a demo of Heaven and Hell posted on the same channel about a month ago:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAk4Z3sX0F4

Interesting and raw as fuck.

[kirksnosehair]

Whoa, he sounds a lot like Dio, holy shit 

[kirksnosehair]

Just noticed that the bass line is different from the final version too.  Interesting

[pg1067]

That is Dio singing.  It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.

[Stadler]

That is Dio singing.  It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.

There was another guy in early, too, as Geezer had left shortly after Ozzy did, thinking it was over;  I want to say it was Craig Gruber, though it might have been Mark Clark (both ex-Rainbow).  Then Geezer came back, and while there has been some discussion about this, Geezer re-recorded everything.

[kirksnosehair]

That is Dio singing.  It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.

oops, I thought it was a different vocalist.  Well that explains the different bass line then 

[WardySI]

From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...

“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”

https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set

[Grappler]

That's awesome.  I've been listening to a lot of Headless Cross, TYR and Cross Purposes over the last few days.   I'd love remastered or remixed versions. 

[gazinwales]

Iommi has been saying similar things for quite a few years now.
Forbidden is being remixed, the rest Headless Cross, Tyr and Cross Purposes will be remastered.
Lets hope there not just brick walled and some of the unreleased material is decent.

[WardySI]

Yes some of the recent reviews for the newly remastered H&H and Mob Rules suggest they're way too loud so not sure whether to pursue those yet or not

[gazinwales]

I only have the 2017 remasters and they sound great.

[wolfking]

From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...

“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”

https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set

First day buyer on a box set with the Martin albums.

[Mladen]

I've listened to the Tony Martin stuff about ten years after I've discovered the rest of the catalogue. Maybe it was a bit late for me, but I wasn't too crazy about the albums. Tyr is solid, but the rest didn't work for me.

I also remember being disappointed with Headless cross, given that a lot of my friends love it. But then again, perhaps I should give it another shot.

[wolfking]

Headless Cross is a top 50 album for me.

[ozzy554]

I hope the Martin era releases come out somewhat soon as they will be a day one buy for me. Cross Purposes is the most underrated album in the bands entire discography IMO.

[TAC]

Cross Purposes is easily my favorite of the Martin Era.

[WardySI]

Cross Purposes and The Eternal Idol are essentials IMO

[Madman Shepherd]

All Martin era is great but Eternal Idol takes the win which is kind of sad to say considering Martin had the least to do with that. It's also amazing how great that album is considering what a mess it was. They had at least two musicians for every instrument it seems (minus keyboards and guitar) and nobody wanted to be in the band but between Bob Daisley and Eric Singer whose performances remained and Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen, that album holds up with just about any other great Sabbath album.

[wolfking]

I'd probably put Headless Cross at the top for me, closely followed by TYR.  Cross Purposes is a very mature album IMO and sounds great.

[Stadler]

From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...

“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”

https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set

First day buyer on a box set with the Martin albums.

As am I.   I even like Forbidden.   I saw the Cross Purposes and Forbidden tours, and even though Tony was suffering on the latter - sick; it was a cold snowy February when I saw them in Connecticut - it was still good (though Cross Purposes was so much better because of Geezer being there). 

[ProfessorPeart]

Count me in as another first day buyer of the Martin set. I only own the Deluxe Eternal Idol set. Everything else I had to get via other means. I have been craving proper versions for years now.

[Stadler]

There's material there, too.  There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find.  There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single).   The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official). 

I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.

[gazinwales]

There's material there, too.  There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find.  There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single).   The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official). 

I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.

All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.

[Stadler]

There's material there, too.  There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find.  There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single).   The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official). 

I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.

All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.

Fair enough, you're right.  It can be pricey to collect, though.  It'd be nice to have it all in one place.

[wolfking]

There's material there, too.  There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find.  There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single).   The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official). 

I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.

All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.

Pretty sure I have an unofficial DVD of that Moscow show.  I didn't really have an issue with him on Cross Purposes Live.  He definitely is under par nut enjoyable to watch.

[wolfking]

There's material there, too.  There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find.  There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single).   The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official). 

I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.

Never understood why Loser Gets it All was a bonus track, it's brilliant.

[ozzy554]

Agreed. Same with What's the Use.

I hope there's audio from earlier in the Cross Purposes tour that they can release as he sounded much better. It's commendable that he did most of that tour while ill but it clearly messed up his voice as he was never the same afterwards live.