Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[Stadler]

I don't know if this was already discussed, but why was The Eternal idol excluded from the set? That's kind of odd that one of the five albums Tony Martin released with the band isn't in the box.

It's already been released in "deluxe" format, if that matters, and is on a different label.  The box set is essentially "the IRS years". 

EDIT:  Ninja'd by the Prof.

EDIT II:  Purchased.

[Grappler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwEWf3RXseg

Remastered video for Headless Cross.  My favorite Tony Martin-era song, and it sounds slamming.   

[ozzy554]

Yeah Eternal Idol was Warner Brothers/Vertigo so that probably would've been an addition legal hurdle to try and include in the set.

Also along with Headless Cross Anno Mundi landed on Spotify today.

[ProfessorPeart]

Got my order in. One minor disappointment is the missing live album. Was hoping to see that in the box. Dio's had Live Evil in it. Was hoping for Cross Purposes Live in this one.

[Stadler]

Got my order in. One minor disappointment is the missing live album. Was hoping to see that in the box. Dio's had Live Evil in it. Was hoping for Cross Purposes Live in this one.

yeah, especially since the CD (and I think the VHS, too) were truncated. Put out the whole show!!!

[ozzy554]

Joe Siegler over at Black-Sabbath.com included this bullet point for the box set announcement whatever it means.

Cross Purposes Live is not part of this, but I’m told will probably make an appearance somewhere else down the line.

[Grappler]

Joe Siegler over at Black-Sabbath.com included this bullet point for the box set announcement whatever it means.

Cross Purposes Live is not part of this, but I’m told will probably make an appearance somewhere else down the line.

That guy's website is awesome and a real treasure trove of Sabbath history. 

[TAC]

So wait...the Sabbath/Martin box set does NOT contain The Eternal Idol, NOR does it contain the live show?

Yeah....fuck that.

[gazinwales]

Not sure why people are bitchin' about no TEI in the IRS years box set?
It was remastered (first 1996) and re-issued as a deluxe edition in 2010.
Yes it would be nice to have all the TM albums together in one box, but obviously this is not possible.
I do agree with the lack of a full-set live album is disappointing, given that besides the CP Live set, there are several widely available radio broadcast bootlegs from the TM era around.

I've just listened to the remastered Headless Cross and Anno Mundi via YT music and I am very impressed with the sound.
Even an audio nerd can hear the difference and IMO a great improvement on the OG sounds.

[TAC]

Not sure why people are bitchin' about no TEI in the IRS years box set?
It was remastered (first 1996) and re-issued as a deluxe edition in 2010.

Well what interested me was having the complete set in one place with liner notes and shit. I didn't realize there'd be an omission. I would've bought the thing to thumb through it, but I'll settle for Spotify now.

[nick_z]

Yes it would be nice to have all the TM albums together in one box, but obviously this is not possible.

Why not? I'm sincerely asking...is it a label thing (disclaimer: I haven't read any press release)? Just seems odd...not like there are a ton of albums with TM to start with.

Incidentally, I already own TEI. The one I don't own and I'd love to have is Headless Cross, but I won't be buying the set just for that...

[ProfessorPeart]

This is the version of Eternal Idol I have. Bought it years ago. Definitely a different label.

https://www.amazon.com/ETERNAL-IDOL-BLACK-SABBATH/dp/B004222UC8

EDIT: Just watched the video. That sounded excellent, even for a YouTube video. Really looking forward to legit copies of these.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

WTF really???

[wolfking]

They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may

Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.

No bonus live stuff?  No Eternal Idol?  No full Cross Purposes CD?  No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released?  What the fuck!?  So disappointing. 

[Madman Shepherd]

They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may

Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.

No bonus live stuff?  No Eternal Idol?  No full Cross Purposes CD?  No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released?  What the fuck!?  So disappointing. 

Eternal Idol, different label.

Cross Purposes is complete.

Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.

Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.

Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?

[Grappler]

Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.

I remember reading this somewhere else.  I want to say that Tony Martin mentioned it in an interview - that they wouldn't be able to release any additional live songs. 

I share your view - despite not having EVERYTHING, it's still a really cool set that they're putting out.  The remixed Forbidden is huge for me.

[Madman Shepherd]

Yeah the way Martin worded it, it could mean they simply can't release any *new* Martin/Iommi collaborations on the albums as bonus tracks but I would imagine it means they can't release anything like bonus live tracks from the era or demos. 

I'm glad other people are stoked about Forbidden. I've always been a fierce defender eve though I can admit it's probably earned a place at the bottom of the rankings. "Bad" Black Sabbath is still excellent music for the most part.

[WardySI]

Meh I prefer my EI Remaster with the Ray Gillen demos anyway so sure while it doesn't feel 'complete' as it should it's still a darn miracle we finally got this box.

Looks awesome and I sure as heck will be wanting a copy 

[wolfking]

They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may

Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.

No bonus live stuff?  No Eternal Idol?  No full Cross Purposes CD?  No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released?  What the fuck!?  So disappointing. 

Eternal Idol, different label.

Cross Purposes is complete.

Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.

Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.

Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?

I meant Cross Purposes Live CD.  My mistake, I know the studio album is complete.

And yes, I'm complaining.  Did my post not give that away?  I don't care about remasters, the originals all sound amazing.  The Forbidden remix would be interesting though.

[wolfking]

Even if it was allowed or not, this set really needed a quality boot from each tour at least.  It's nice to have all the bonus tracks but I was at least expecting maybe some demos or live boots.

[ProfessorPeart]

As someone who has never had the opportunity to own these and only has (cough) pirated (cough) copies, this set is exactly what I needed. I have the Deluxe reissues of Eternal Idol and Gillan's Born Again. The only studio albums I have never had are exactly what is in this set.

Guess your excitement sits on when exactly you became a fan and what your purchasing opportunities were. For me, this is nearly perfect. Hoping the nugget that the live album might be coming later comes true. Maybe they are remastering the video for a deluxe release with the whole show on CD and remastered video. One can dream.

As always, I hate Sharon and the fact the she has Iommi by the balls. I know he initially wanted to record some new stuff for this box with Martin but that stupid contract stipulation quashed it.

[Madman Shepherd]

They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may

Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.

No bonus live stuff?  No Eternal Idol?  No full Cross Purposes CD?  No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released?  What the fuck!?  So disappointing. 

Eternal Idol, different label.

Cross Purposes is complete.

Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.

Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.

Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?

I meant Cross Purposes Live CD.  My mistake, I know the studio album is complete.

And yes, I'm complaining.  Did my post not give that away?  I don't care about remasters, the originals all sound amazing.  The Forbidden remix would be interesting though.

With the exception of Cross Purposes, I don't think they sound great at all. So the remasters are most welcome.

As someone who has never had the opportunity to own these and only has (cough) pirated (cough) copies, this set is exactly what I needed. I have the Deluxe reissues of Eternal Idol and Gillan's Born Again. They only studio albums I have never had are exactly what is in this set.

Guess your excitement sits on when exactly you became a fan and what your purchasing opportunities were. For me, this is nearly perfect.

Well i've been a fan so long that I was able to purchase most of these at a used cd store because they practically couldn't give them away. The exception is forbidden which I got at best Buy in the $2 bin in 1996. That was about the time I became a fan and had no interest in non Ozzy years but I couldn't pass that up considering most CD's were 15 or $16 Back when I earned $13 a week, delivering a newspaper 1 day per week.

Took years but I grew to love the Martin years INCLUDING Forbidden but the mix is definitely Sabbath's worst. The others could benefit from a remastering job. TYR and Headless Cross sound a bit 80s but the songs are killer. Cross Purposes I used to love but have grown to feel it's one of Sabbath's blandest.

Anyway, I've got all the bonus songs as illegal downloads so the quality isn't the greatest. Happy to have good versions and psyched for the improved sound.

[wolfking]

Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's?  No shit! 

[Madman Shepherd]

Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's?  No shit! 

Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.

[Grappler]

For me, Forbidden goes back to Christmas 1995.  I was 15 and only liked a handful of bands - Metallica, Megadeth, Ozzy/Sabbath, etc.  My mom bought me the new album from Black Sabbath and I was stoked....though I had only ever heard the Ozzy era.  I had no idea they had different singers!  I remember not digging the album and sold it off.  Years later, I got back into it after hearing the title track. 

I have some nostalgia for it due to my mom's alzheimers now and remembering that moment when I was becoming a metalhead.  She wanted me to have a new cd from a band that I liked. 

[WardySI]

Yeah it's these stories and all the history that comes with these albums that make them so dear to us all these years later.

Thanks for sharing!

[Madman Shepherd]

For me, Forbidden goes back to Christmas 1995.  I was 15 and only liked a handful of bands - Metallica, Megadeth, Ozzy/Sabbath, etc.  My mom bought me the new album from Black Sabbath and I was stoked....though I had only ever heard the Ozzy era.  I had no idea they had different singers!  I remember not digging the album and sold it off.  Years later, I got back into it after hearing the title track. 

I have some nostalgia for it due to my mom's alzheimers now and remembering that moment when I was becoming a metalhead.  She wanted me to have a new cd from a band that I liked.

That's awesome! My mom bought me Headless Cross. Of course, she asked what I wanted for my birthday and I told her that and this independent record store would be the only one to have it. The guy at the counter looked at it, then looked at her and said, "Grest album!" She sort of nodded and he said, "but I'm assuming you're not buying it for yourself."

[wolfking]

Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's?  No shit! 

Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.

They all sound timeless to me.  Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.

I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.

[Madman Shepherd]

Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's?  No shit! 

Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.

They all sound timeless to me.  Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.

I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.

100% agreement.

[wolfking]

Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's?  No shit! 

Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.

They all sound timeless to me.  Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.

I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.

100% agreement.

Great that we can agree.  I guess I just wanted more from this amazing batch of albums, but I'm sure they did whatever was possible.

[ozzy554]

Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.


They all sound timeless to me.  Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.

I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.


100% agreement.


Great that we can agree.  I guess I just wanted more from this amazing batch of albums, but I'm sure they did whatever was possible.

Tony did hint in a video a few months ago that legal stuff was holding this release up

[wolfking]

Tony did hint in a video a few months ago that legal stuff was holding this release up

Yeah, I remember that.  I'm sure Tony would have liked a bit more out of this release too I would guess.

[Stadler]

I thought the Sharon restriction was on releasing NEW material (which makes sense, since the whole "name thing" was from circa 2008/2009 around the time of "Heaven And Hell") specifically under the Black Sabbath name, but I could be wrong. 

I don't know; I'm fired up for this.  I've always like Forbidden - except the first song - and that was the one that I kind of wanted to see what they would do with it.  I don't have a problem with the sound of the other records; in fact, Cross Purposes to me sounds decent. Then there's the three Japanese songs; I mean, $55 isn't worth "three songs" but I've really liked the job that Sabbath has done with their remixes/remasters.   They've sounded really, really good. 

[Madman Shepherd]

I thought the Sharon restriction was on releasing NEW material (which makes sense, since the whole "name thing" was from circa 2008/2009 around the time of "Heaven And Hell") specifically under the Black Sabbath name, but I could be wrong. 

It's not entirely clear what the agreement is but it doesn't look favorable to Iommi.

[Stadler]

It's not entirely clear what the agreement is but it doesn't look favorable to Iommi.

I think generally it governed what could be released under the "Black Sabbath" name, and I think it basically has to include Ozzy or get his permission, is the gist of it.   Then again, I haven't seen it.

I remember reading an article where it was said that it was "confusing" otherwise.  WTF? We're not idiots.