Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[Grappler]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.

If they did, they would have to go out as "Headless Cross" or some other name, like what they did with Heaven and Hell.  Sharon and Ozzy settled with Tony Iommi for some of the ownership of the Black Sabbath name. 

I really enjoyed Tony Martin's solo album that came out a few years ago - it would be cool to see him front Sabbath again. 

[Stadler]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set.   I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live.  I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.

[wolfking]

I too am eagerly awaiting something......

[TAC]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set.   I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live.  I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.

I remember those tours. I completely thumbed my nose at the whole thing, calling it Black Sabbath and trying to take my money. Fuck that!

[Stadler]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set.   I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live.  I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.

I remember those tours. I completely thumbed my nose at the whole thing, calling it Black Sabbath and trying to take my money. Fuck that!

Haha, it was good though.  Cross Purposes was Geezer and Iommi and Bobby Rondinelli, and it ROCKED. SO good.   The Forbidden tour was Cozy Powell, Neil Murray and Iommi, and it was pretty good; Martin was sick, though, and you could tell.  Plus I was about 10 feet from Lemmy both nights. 

[TAC]

Yeah, I really regret not going, or even buying the albums. I bought Seventh Star and swore I wouldn't be duped again.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

additionally there was a recent 25th anniversary expanded edition release for Reunion if anyone was interested in that

[TAC]

additionally there was a recent 25th anniversary expanded edition release for Reunion if anyone was interested in that

What was expanded about it?

[El Barto]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

not entirely sure, that's just what the release is called on streaming, lol

looks like two studio songs were included from the time period? and remixes of them or something?

[TAC]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

For me, I actually only own the CD proper of Eternal Idol. I do have digital versions of the rest. I'd be interested in the package though, the booklet and liner notes and shit.

I'm not generally a reissue kind of guy, and I'll consider the price, but if it's reasonable, I do plan on getting it.

Also, I'm not one that romanticizes about the Tony Martin Era either.

[jjrock88]

"romanticizes"??.........The Tony Martin era is great stuff.

[wolfking]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

You make a good point.  I have the originals and they are great but foe me, the Martin era us so important to me that it would just feel wrong not getting any reissues that are brought out.

[nick_z]

I would absolutely get the reissue of Headless Cross because, well, I don't have it at all 

[Grappler]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

Iommi confirmed some time ago that he finished remixing Forbidden, which I would LOVE to hear.  That title track is so heavy and I'd love to hear it with a big, fat, clear mix.  I think that's the big draw to this rumored box set, other than the fact that the physical albums have been out of print forever. 

[MirrorMask]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.

If they did, they would have to go out as "Headless Cross" or some other name, like what they did with Heaven and Hell.  Sharon and Ozzy settled with Tony Iommi for some of the ownership of the Black Sabbath name. 

I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.

The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.

[wolfking]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

Iommi confirmed some time ago that he finished remixing Forbidden, which I would LOVE to hear.  That title track is so heavy and I'd love to hear it with a big, fat, clear mix.  I think that's the big draw to this rumored box set, other than the fact that the physical albums have been out of print forever.

Yep, that song is unreal.  Pretty sure it's the lowest tuned Sabbath song too in C Standard......from memory.

[The Curious Orange]

The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.

I think it was done about the time of the 1997 Reunion.

[Grappler]

I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.

The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.

That's all correct.  The Tony/Ozzy settlement was either 100% financial, or Tony had to give up a little control over the name to appease Ozzy and Sharon.  She was really big on saying that "Ozzy IS Black Sabbath" around that time.  So there could be an element where Tony can't use the name without Ozzy and/or Geezer, which is what I suspect.

Either way, he and Tony Marin could always voluntarily use a different name like they did with Heaven and Hell.  I still say that I saw Ronnie front Sabbath, despite it being a separate band.

[WardySI]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

For me, I actually only own the CD proper of Eternal Idol. I do have digital versions of the rest. I'd be interested in the package though, the booklet and liner notes and shit.

I'm not generally a reissue kind of guy, and I'll consider the price, but if it's reasonable, I do plan on getting it.

Also, I'm not one that romanticizes about the Tony Martin Era either.

I have the Deluxe version of Eternal Isol Lommi released several years ago which included the second disc of original Ray Gillen demos and that whole package, from the remaster the demos and booklet is so well put together.

I wouldn't hesitate to own the entire Martin era in this format if the price is right \m/

2c

[MirrorMask]

I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.

The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.

That's all correct.  The Tony/Ozzy settlement was either 100% financial, or Tony had to give up a little control over the name to appease Ozzy and Sharon.  She was really big on saying that "Ozzy IS Black Sabbath" around that time.  So there could be an element where Tony can't use the name without Ozzy and/or Geezer, which is what I suspect.

Either way, he and Tony Marin could always voluntarily use a different name like they did with Heaven and Hell.  I still say that I saw Ronnie front Sabbath, despite it being a separate band.

I agree.

I saw Heaven and Hell twice, in 2007 and 2009. On stage there were people who at a time were, all together, members of Black Sabbath, who recorded albums presented as Black Sabbath and in the show they played songs by Black Sabbath. If you ask me if I ever saw Black Sabbath live, I reply "yes, the version with Dio".

In an alternate scenario where the Bruce Dickinson version of Iron Maiden falls apart time and time again, and Steve Harris, Dave Murray, Dennis Stratton, Clive Burr and Paul Di'Anno come together to play songs from the 1980 debut album billed as "Opera Phantoms", that counts as seeing Iron maiden to me.

[Stadler]

Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.

Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?

You make a good point.  I have the originals and they are great but foe me, the Martin era us so important to me that it would just feel wrong not getting any reissues that are brought out.

Well, for me, there's the unreleased - well, they were released in Japan - songs and b-sides.   The other, non-Ozzy deluxe versions were generally pretty good with additional material; live stuff, and what not.  There was a live release (Cross Purposes Live) that was done, and the CD and the VHS were not identical; it would be nice to get a DVD of the show (it's got more songs than the CD).

And not for nothing, I'm with you Bart: remasters generally suck in that they're the same thing, just louder.  BUT... there are a batch of remasters from the Ozzy years that are NOTICEABLY better. Cleaner, and not just "louder" per se, but more depth.  The Martin years generally sound good (I think all but Forbidden are produced by Iommi, with help from Cozy) but if they get treated the same way as the Ozzy years, a little clarity wouldn't hurt anyone.

[jjrock88]

Just listening to "The Shining".  What an awesome song 

[wolfking]

Just listening to "The Shining".  What an awesome song 

One cannot argue with this post.

[WardySI]

Just listening to "The Shining".  What an awesome song 

 

[ZirconBlue]

Just listening to "The Shining".  What an awesome song 

That song popped up on my Spotify "Discover Weekly" list a while back, and I loved it instantly.  Other than that and Headless Cross, I haven't heard any of the Martin-era Sabbath.  That's really something I need to rectify.

[Grappler]

Just listening to "The Shining".  What an awesome song 

That song popped up on my Spotify "Discover Weekly" list a while back, and I loved it instantly.  Other than that and Headless Cross, I haven't heard any of the Martin-era Sabbath.  That's really something I need to rectify.

I did that a long time ago after hearing The Shining.  I finally found some of the Martin records and fell in love with them, just as I did with the Dio albums 20 years ago.  There's definitely plenty of great songs from Tony Martin's time as the frontman.

[Glasser]

Love The Shining, great tune! Am I in the minority that likes the Seventh Star album?

[nick_z]

I wouldn't say it's among my favorites, but I do like it...

One thing I never quite understood is the "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" thing...I mean, I get that for a while this was supposed to be a Iommi solo record, but then there were pressures to release it as "Black Sabbath". Once that was decided, though, what was the point of adding "Featuring Tony Iommi"?? He was the ONE permanent fixture of the band the whole time! Of course it was going to "feature" him...??

[jjrock88]

I really like Seventh Star, Danger Zone is fantastic.  With the Martin era, I think The Shining and Headless Cross are the two standouts, but always thought Black Moon and The Lawmaker were two underrated gems.

[TAC]

I listened to Seventh Star a couple of months ago, and it fucking blows monkey chunks.
The fact that they called it Black Sabbath, and that it sucked so fucking bad, totally turned me off to the Tony Martin Era and caused me to completely ignore it.

[pg1067]

I listened to Seventh Star a couple of months ago, and it fucking blows monkey chunks.
The fact that they called it Black Sabbath, and that it sucked so fucking bad, totally turned me off to the Tony Martin Era and caused me to completely ignore it.

I can only vaguely remember hearing Danger Zone and thinking it sucked, so I ignored Seventh Star (after seeing and scoffing at the cover with the "Black Sabbath" name on what was obviously a Tony Iommi solo album).  When I heard The Shining the next year, it was so good that I went out and bought The Eternal Idol, but the rest of the album didn't hold up.  Sabbath was dead to me at that point until Dehumanizer came out in '92.

[MirrorMask]

I wouldn't say it's among my favorites, but I do like it...

One thing I never quite understood is the "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" thing...I mean, I get that for a while this was supposed to be a Iommi solo record, but then there were pressures to release it as "Black Sabbath". Once that was decided, though, what was the point of adding "Featuring Tony Iommi"?? He was the ONE permanent fixture of the band the whole time! Of course it was going to "feature" him...??

Now that you point it out it kinda feels weird 

My guesses:

- Compromise. Iommi wanted it labeled as a Tony Iommi album. The label wanted Black Sabbath. They met halfway to distinguish it somehow from other Sabbath albums.
- Recognition. Let's remember that the band was basically dead at the time. When Ian Gillian left, the band tried to go on with a couple of singers and then folded. The name was a way of saying "so, Black Sabbath is back and in case you wonder if any of the original guys is there, well, it's Iommi".

[jjrock88]

80's Black Sabbath is such an interesting era.

[wolfking]

I fucking hated SS when I first heard it.  I was so confused.  I must say though, over time, it's not all that bad in my eyes.