Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[wolfking]

Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.

He was one of my earliest influences.  He's not technically a great soloist but something always resonated with me in terms of his guitar solos.  However, I didn't take to much of his soloing outside the Martin era to be honest.  Over and Over and Lonely are exceptions but to rattle off a few songs of his that made me a mega fan;

Born to Lose
Glory Ride
Ancient Warrior
Kill in the Spirit World
Jerusalem
Immaculate Deception
The Hand That Rocks the Cradle
Devil and Daughter

So many tasty solos.  Always simple in nature but just melodically pleasing.  I was also shocked and stunned when I found out When Death Calls is actually Brian May.  That would rank as one of my all time fav solos and I'm not even a fan of May or Queen.

[Grappler]

Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?

www.black-sabbath.com is a much more complete, better and fan-run website. 


And the Dio-era is definitely not overrated.  I view the band just like Van Halen.  The original singers (Ozzy, DLR) are absolutely iconic, but not the best singers in the world.  The second singers in each band (Dio, Hagar) have much better, more melodic voices and really opened up the songwriting to new levels.

[Stadler]

I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me.  Maybe it's the songwriting.  If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.

I love the Heaven And Hell album. The only real dud is Walk Away. It was an early album in my musical discovery and it was very impactful.

Mob Rules was the followup the following year.

LITERALLY my favorite song on the album, but that should surprise NO ONE who reads mine and TACs banter about albums. 

[Stadler]

Calling the first Dio era overrated doesn't resonate with me because I don't know how it's rated.

As far as I'm concerned, Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are the two best Sabbath albums.  For my money, the first eight Sabbath albums have anywhere between 0-4 songs that I really want to listen to.  By contrast, there are no skippers on either H&H or Mob.

My gateway into Sabbath was Ozzy's Speak of the Devil, which I probably bought either shortly before or shortly after Bark at the Moon was released.  I didn't become a fan until after Rhoads had died so it wasn't weird to me like I'm sure it was for some others.  I went back and bought Paranoid, Sabotage and Never Say Die (and maybe also Master of Reality), but the Speak of the Devil versions are still the definitive versions of all those songs.  I guess my point is that, since I didn't really hold any allegiance to the original incarnation of Sabbath, I found myself comparing speak of the Devil against H&H and Mob.  They compare favorably, but the rest of the original Sabbath catalog does not, so, while the best of the original Sabbath catalog compares favorably to the first Dio era, the overall original catalog does not.  And, I generally like Dehumanizer, but I've never hear The Devil You Know or any of the stuff Ozzy did with Sabbath over the last what...15 years?


Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?

Well, for me, it was WSOW(FRnR), then Vol. 4, Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on cassette.  To this day, SBS is probably my favorite Sabbath record and Spiral Architect my favorite Sabbath song.  I'm not saying that Dio-era Sabbath is BAD; Heaven And Hell is all killer and no filler, for sure.  But I think there's more drama and extra-curricular stuff around the Ozzy era that I think has diminished it in the eyes of many.   There seems to be a sort of mystique around the Dio era, and the presumption that he's a way better singer (he is, but that's not relevant) that I don't really get 100%.   

You either like Ozzy's tone or you don't, I get that, but if you listen to the studio tapes from the new Vol. 4 Deluxe Edition, Ozzy CAN sing, and sing pretty well.  They're rehearsing in the studio and he steps up to the mike and even with made up shitty words, it's album quality.  The guy nails it. 

KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING!  Even if it's just the albums.   

[pg1067]

Well, for me, it was WSOW(FRnR), then Vol. 4, Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on cassette.

And I think that makes all the difference in the world.  If you're old enough to have experienced the Ozzy era firsthand or got introduced to that material first, then you're likely to have an entirely different point of view.  We're seeing similar things in the Fates Warning countdown thread with people who got into the band during the John Arch era or shortly after Ray Alder joined, as opposed to newer fans.

[The Realm]

I am a huge Ozzy fan and a huge Ozzy Sabbath fan. To me the first 6 Sabbath albums are all pretty much equally awesome, just some amazing stuff and I think Ozzy's voice on these albums is also perfect for the music. Ozzy doesn't seem to have that many fans on here and I sometimes wonder if that is because we all associate him with his more recent antics etc then how amazing he was in his prime. At the end of the day, I also get that his tone can be a bit polarising but it really works for me.

[Grappler]

I am a huge Ozzy fan and a huge Ozzy Sabbath fan. To me the first 6 Sabbath albums are all pretty much equally awesome, just some amazing stuff and I think Ozzy's voice on these albums is also perfect for the music. Ozzy doesn't seem to have that many fans on here and I sometimes wonder if that is because we all associate him with his more recent antics etc then how amazing he was in his prime. At the end of the day, I also get that his tone can be a bit polarising but it really works for me.

I love the Ozzy era equally.  There are times where I binge the Dio albums and times where I binge the Ozzy stuff.  Like I noted above, I think they're different in terms of songwriting - Dio really let Iommi open up and write some different stuff and those records have big, soaring vocals. 

[TAC]

KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING!  Even if it's just the albums.

My songs are already ranked.

[Orbert]

I loved the original Black Sabbath sound.  Dark and doomy, and Ozzy's voice worked very well with that.  But after Ozzy went solo and was pretty popular for a while, I got really tired of his voice.  Just got tired of the same whiny stuff, because let's face it, he doesn't have great range or even expression.  Then something horrible happened and I realized I had trouble enjoying the original Sabbath albums because of Ozzy.  The music is still great, but then Ozzy starts singing and I realize I just don't want to hear it.

Definitely a first-world problem, but there it is.

[El Barto]

Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.

He was one of my earliest influences.  He's not technically a great soloist but something always resonated with me in terms of his guitar solos.  However, I didn't take to much of his soloing outside the Martin era to be honest.  Over and Over and Lonely are exceptions but to rattle off a few songs of his that made me a mega fan;

Born to Lose
Glory Ride
Ancient Warrior
Kill in the Spirit World
Jerusalem
Immaculate Deception
The Hand That Rocks the Cradle
Devil and Daughter

So many tasty solos.  Always simple in nature but just melodically pleasing.  I was also shocked and stunned when I found out When Death Calls is actually Brian May.  That would rank as one of my all time fav solos and I'm not even a fan of May or Queen.

Always loved the Ancient Warrior solo. It's got a wonderful, Gilmouresque quality to it.

[wolfking]

Sabbath ranking?!  Oh yes please!

[KevShmev]

KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING!  Even if it's just the albums.

I could possibly be talked into doing the albums...maybe.

[TAC]

KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING!  Even if it's just the albums.

I could possibly be talked into doing the albums...maybe.

Well, since the albums have songs, do songs instead. 

[KevShmev]

Nah, that would take too long.  Besides, the backlog of ideas is already getting long, so it's not like this is happening any time soon.

[TAC]

A backlog of ideas? Any good ones?

[KevShmev]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

[jammindude]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

 

[TAC]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

I'll be disconnected from that one.

[Zydar]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

I'll be disconnected from that one.

So TAC is out then. Someone Else?

[wolfking]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

I'm sorry could you say that one more time?  100 fav moments?  I will be damaged and totally out of mind if I participated in that one!

[Orbert]

I pulled up Heaven and Hell and gave it another spin this morning.  Much better than I remembered!  Solid rock and roll, great riffs, and of course Dio's voice.  I'm on my second spin right now.

I think at the time, it was just too different, too much "not Black Sabbath" (which at the time meant everything up to that point).  The doom and gloom of their original sound was all but gone.  Still heavy, but not all dark and dreary like the early stuff.  Some of it reminds me of Deep Purple.

In 1980 I had already dived headfirst into prog, so "basic" rock and roll wasn't doing it for me.  I remember listening to this album and thinking it was nothing special at all.  No Ozzy, and it's so much lighter that it almost sounds happy, which is not Black Sabbath.  Today, I can look back and appreciate things more for what they are, not dismiss them for what they're not.  Funny how that works.

Sometimes I'm a bit jealous of people who get into classic bands long after the fact, and the thrill you can get when you first encounter something great.  And there's also a perspective you get that obviously isn't possible if you're there as it's unfolding.

[pg1067]

Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.

1. Damaged
2. I Am I
3. Jack
4-100. Shit

[ProfessorPeart]

Good news, I saw Tony Martin reveal in an interview that his albums are coming out in 2023 per contact with Iommi. Today, Iommi celebrated Cozy Powell in a tweet and mentioned he can't wait for the release of the I.R.S. label albums in 2023. Seems like we are very close to getting these finally. Martin mentioned a box set, but who knows. I don't care, I just want to finally have these albums.

[wolfking]

Good news, I saw Tony Martin reveal in an interview that his albums are coming out in 2023 per contact with Iommi. Today, Iommi celebrated Cozy Powell in a tweet and mentioned he can't wait for the release of the I.R.S. label albums in 2023. Seems like we are very close to getting these finally. Martin mentioned a box set, but who knows. I don't care, I just want to finally have these albums.

If the content is there, I'll happily repurchase these. 

[TAC]

I really only have these on digital burned to CD. I did buy a used copy of Eternal Idol. I'd grab a box set of the Marting Era for sure.

[wolfking]

Yeah, a box set of all the albums would be exceptional.

[Madman Shepherd]

I've got all of them and will be rebuying, assuming the remastering job is noticeable. I can't imagine it won't be, possibly with the exception of Cross Purposes which probably doesn't need it.

Tony Martin said they can't put any new recordings on as part of the (bullshit) lawsuit ozzy filed several years ago, but anything previously recorded is ok. Hopefully there will be good bonus content.

[ozzy554]

Finally. I don't own any of these albums physically so I'll be a day one buyer.

Now I know they can't release any new recordings under the sabbath name but it would be cool to get any new material from them. Even if its just a song or two that goes straight to Spotify. Especially if Martin has any more unused Cozy Powell drum tracks like he used for Raising Hell from Scream.

[gazinwales]

I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).

[ozzy554]

Looks like we are also getting a new Iommi solo album https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-guitarist-tony-iommi-is-getting-ready-to-write-another-album

I can't wait for that as it's been way too long since Fused. Whether it's another one with Glenn or with a bunch of special guests I can't wait.

[Stadler]

I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).

There are three or four b-sides and Japanese-only bonus tracks that I am looking forward to.

[gazinwales]

I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).

There are three or four b-sides and Japanese-only bonus tracks that I am looking forward to.

Headless Cross and Tyr, there no Japan bonus tracks, but HC single had 'Cloak and Dagger'.
Cross Purposes has 'What's The Use' and Forbidden adds 'Loser Get's It All'.

[wolfking]

Loser Gets It All is really the only worthwhile bonus track IMO.  Better than most songs on the album.

[Zydar]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

[TAC]

Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html

I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.