Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[TAC]

Yeah and I know albums were shorter back then. But in real time I thought Born Again felt so incomplete. Like they rushed it.

[Mladen]

Seventh star is so middle-of-the-road to me that even a different name on the cover wouldn't have made it better. I would have listened to it in different context, but I still wouldn't find the songs to be better.

[gazinwales]

I've always liked Seventh Star, despite the rather dated 1980's sound/production is sounds great and even a massively f***ed up Glenn Hughes sounds amazing 

[pg1067]

But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?

I sort of felt the same as Tim about the parade of vocalists post-Dio, along with the departure of Geezer Butler.  However, The Shining got a bunch of radio play, and I loved it (still do), so I bought the album.  I think Ancient Warrior is the only other song even remotely worth listening to (although I haven't listened to anything other than The Shining in years).

After that, I was done.  When Tyr was released, my friends and I joked that they should have called it "Tyred" (even though I don't think any of us had heard a single note from it).

[Grappler]

Headless Cross, Anno Mundi, The Shining, maybe one or two from Cross Purposes - those are all top-tier Sabbath songs.  Great riffs and vocals.

[emtee]

Cross Purposes is great from beginning to end. Love that album.

[wolfking]

But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?

I sort of felt the same as Tim about the parade of vocalists post-Dio, along with the departure of Geezer Butler.  However, The Shining got a bunch of radio play, and I loved it (still do), so I bought the album.  I think Ancient Warrior is the only other song even remotely worth listening to (although I haven't listened to anything other than The Shining in years).

After that, I was done.  When Tyr was released, my friends and I joked that they should have called it "Tyred" (even though I don't think any of us had heard a single note from it).

Wow!  I find TYR quality from start to finish and Headless Cross made my top 50.

[pg1067]

Like I said, we were mocking out of ignorance (I think I was 22 when it came out).   

[wolfking]

Yeah fair enough.  Perhaps the lack of popularity during that period was pure stubornness from hard core fans not even giving these albums a chance.

[Glasser]

I like Seventh Star and absolutely love Eternal Idol. I just don't view them as "Black Sabbath". When Seventh Star came out I had zero expectations and enjoyed it but Eternal Idol is a classic to me. The Tony Martin stuff is absolutely amazing but once again, I just don't compare them to old Sabbath that I grew up on. Sabbath IS Ozzy, after that it was " Dio Sabbath" which I like too but Black Sabbath will ALWAYS be Ozzy to me.

[wolfking]

I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact.  To me Sabbath is Iommi.

[Stadler]

I've come to really appreciate Seventh Star.  I used to have a bug up my ass about Glenn Hughes for ruining Deep Purple (his "funky" singing was no bueno to me at all then, and I still don't care for it) but when I later realized he could sing - the Iommi solo record, and Black Country Communion - I went back to 7th Star and it's decent. I love No Stranger To Love, Danger Zone and In Memory.   

[TAC]

I've come to really appreciate Seventh Star.  I used to have a bug up my ass about Glenn Hughes for ruining Deep Purple (his "funky" singing was no bueno to me at all then, and I still don't care for it) but when I later realized he could sing - the Iommi solo record, and Black Country Communion - I went back to 7th Star and it's decent. I love No Stranger To Love, Danger Zone and In Memory.

I'm actually reading Glenn Hughes' autobiography right now.

Burn is still the best Deep Purple album.

[bl5150]

I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact.  To me Sabbath is Iommi.

Ditto..............I actually think my first (bought) Sabbath album was Tyr , so I associate Martin with Sabbath more than most.  I was an Ozzy solo fan long before I was a Sabbath fan.

[wolfking]

I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact.  To me Sabbath is Iommi.

Ditto..............I actually think my first (bought) Sabbath album was Tyr , so I associate Martin with Sabbath more than most.  I was an Ozzy solo fan long before I was a Sabbath fan.

I'm trying to think which came first, might have been Sabbath for me.  I should associate Dio because Dehumanizer and H&H were my first but I fell in love with those Martin albums big time.  I did spin the shit of of the old stuff but nothing has had the longevity of the Martin albums for me.

[Podaar]

While I was around during OG Sabbath, I didn't buy my first Sabbath album until Sabatage...of course I bought the back catalog soon after. Then when Heaven and Hell arrived, that's when I went totally bonkers for Sabbath. The Martin/Hughes albums did nothing for me even though I bought them all. Not 'til Dehumanizer came out did I really pay attention again. Sadly that was short lived.

Thus, Sabbadio is my most listened to incarnation. With the possible exception of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. I think I've listened to it more than any other, in my opinion it's a must have for any rock fan.

[Stadler]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

[The Realm]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

That's not out on a limb to me. I absolutely love the Heaven and Hell album but Sabbath is Ozzy all the way for me.

[wolfking]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

I don't think that's all that controversial.

[TAC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.

I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.

[Orbert]

I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me.  Maybe it's the songwriting.  If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.

[TAC]

I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me.  Maybe it's the songwriting.  If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.

I love the Heaven And Hell album. The only real dud is Walk Away. It was an early album in my musical discovery and it was very impactful.

Mob Rules was the followup the following year.

[Orbert]

Maybe I should give it another chance.  It's been a while.  Being an old fogey, I grew up on original Sabbath of course, then came Heaven and Hell.  I probably just didn't give it much of a chance, because I know I never picked up Mob Rules or anything after that.  I was getting into prog by then, and basically just moved on.

I did check out 13 a few years back, just to see.  It was about what I'd expected.  Not horrible, but not really exciting either.

[TAC]

I had We Sold Our Souls For Rock N Roll, and I liked it, but I never considered it awesome.

I like a lot of Ozzy Sabbath but I don't love it or elevate it amongst my favorite bands.
Highlights to me are Sabotage and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.

[wolfking]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.

I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.

I think that's actually the exact reason why Bill would think it was somewhat overrated, considering the hype it gets.

[TAC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.

Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.

I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.

I think that's actually the exact reason why Bill would think it was somewhat overrated, considering the hype it gets.

I made his point, didn't I?

[wolfking]

 

[Podaar]

Nah, not over-rated. Over and Over from Mob Rules is better than the majority of the rest of the catalog. The lyrics, the tasty bass, the moody drums, the vocal melody and performance…but especially Iommi’s guitar work!! Just a perfect metal-blues hybrid.

[wolfking]

Nah, not over-rated. Over and Over from Mob Rules is better than the majority of the rest of the catalog. The lyrics, the tasty bass, the moody drums, the vocal melody and performance…but especially Iommi’s guitar work!! Just a perfect metal-blues hybrid.

This could possibly be their most underrated and overlooked song.  It's fucking incredible and definitely a top 5 Iommi song in terms of guitar soloing.

[Podaar]

I knew you would understand, mate.

[wolfking]

I knew you would understand, mate.

For the longest time, I much preferred Lonely is the Word of the two but one day Over and Over just clicked and completely floored me.  This year especially I've warmed to it even more.  The somber atmosphere and the lyrics also just almost bring a tear to the eye.  Could be the best Dio era song for me.

With Iommi's solos, both this and Lonely are two of my favs to jam to.  Just beautiful space and a template to improvise over also, love it.

[Podaar]

“Too many flames, with too much to burn
And life’s only made of paper”

Sublime

[TAC]

Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.

[pg1067]

Calling the first Dio era overrated doesn't resonate with me because I don't know how it's rated.

As far as I'm concerned, Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are the two best Sabbath albums.  For my money, the first eight Sabbath albums have anywhere between 0-4 songs that I really want to listen to.  By contrast, there are no skippers on either H&H or Mob.

My gateway into Sabbath was Ozzy's Speak of the Devil, which I probably bought either shortly before or shortly after Bark at the Moon was released.  I didn't become a fan until after Rhoads had died so it wasn't weird to me like I'm sure it was for some others.  I went back and bought Paranoid, Sabotage and Never Say Die (and maybe also Master of Reality), but the Speak of the Devil versions are still the definitive versions of all those songs.  I guess my point is that, since I didn't really hold any allegiance to the original incarnation of Sabbath, I found myself comparing speak of the Devil against H&H and Mob.  They compare favorably, but the rest of the original Sabbath catalog does not, so, while the best of the original Sabbath catalog compares favorably to the first Dio era, the overall original catalog does not.  And, I generally like Dehumanizer, but I've never hear The Devil You Know or any of the stuff Ozzy did with Sabbath over the last what...15 years?


Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?

[TAC]

Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?