Doctor Who

[robwebster]

Couldn't agree more if I tried! The Waters of Mars and The End of Time are kind of the pinnacle of RTD's era. TEoT is the first finale that I can't pick a single flaw in. The closest I've got is the bit where the Silver Cloak interrupt a really tense scene where the Doctor's chasing the Master, which I "got" as comic relief, but I was sat in my armchair practically screaming at the television, so blue were my balls... and yet, that then leads into the Doctor and Wilf in the café, and every fibre of my frustration just fizzles away forthwith.

The one that always seems to get lost in the rabble, though, is The Next Doctor. Which, were it not for TEoT1, would be my favourite christmas special. Absolutely splendid episode.

[ariich]

The Next Doctor is great fun, and actually The Planet of the Dead is the one that I think gets overlooked. It's also great fun, and the prophecy at the end is absolutely chilling, especially when re-watching.

[robwebster]

I don't mention Planet mainly 'cause it's my least favourite, but it's got a lot of cool stuff going on. I really dig the stuff on Earth (MALCOLM!) and the visual of the bus in the desert is pretty fantastic. It's the most beautiful of the specials all round, actually. Only problem is that I find San Helios a little dull. Totally justified in-story, it's just not my favourite. I think it might've needed a little bit more geography to it, 'cause as much as I love the idea of metropoles being turned to sand, it was a little "tell don't show," and so I struggled a little to connect to the horror of the occasion.

Still cool, though! Lovely little diversion. And yes, the moments at the end were infinitely replayable.

[ariich]

See I actually quite liked the tell-don't-show approach for that one. It's an unusual approach for DW, but it was nice to have that subtlety for a change. I think that's what I like about the specials in general, they all have something rather unique about them. The Waters of Mars is the most relentlessly dark thing emotionally that DW has done.

[robwebster]

Yeah! I think the specials marked one of those times they really decided to break with convention and tell stories they hadn't done before. Not having a companion really helped, probably. Planet is very striking and very unconventional. Hell of a lot of scale, too. It's not an experiment that entirely worked for me, but there were aspects that I really liked, and I'm glad they took a chance.

[ClairvoyantCat]

The Waters of Mars is the most relentlessly dark thing emotionally that DW has done.

Yep, that's one of the reasons why it would be my favorite of the specials.  Especially with the "Timelord Victorious" thing that is momentarily introduced.  Seeing that, I was sort of hoping that it was a hint towards a progression in character of the Doctor.  Part of me wishes that the whole power-crazed Doctor that we saw brief shadings of at moments in the episode had been taken somewhere.  It would have made for an interesting element of the story to see the Doctor's ability to change time start to go to his head.  Still, that episode is very strong.  It would probably only be bested by Silence in the Library /Forest of the Dead as far as season 4 is concerned. 

[robwebster]

I think the Time Lord Victorious thing sort of began and ended in the same episode. Adelaide committing suicide was basically the massive crash down to earth, the pride and then the fall.

The End of Time did kind of reflect that fall. We meet a desperate Doctor on the Ood-Sphere. His pride's been crushed, and though he's trying to force a smile, he's failing miserably. Turning up in a hat and garland, pre-preparing silly jokes, going on for just-a-little-bit-too-long about what a wonderful time he's really honestly having... it's a Doctor who's learnt in no uncertain terms that he abjectly cannot fight time, and he's emotionally crippled by that fact - as much as he tries to pretend he isn't. We don't see the scary Doctor, we see its shattered remains. Trying to laugh. Which - as much as I do agree that the Time Lord victorious was one of the most compelling ideas that the series has produced and yet tantalisingly short - was, perhaps unfortunately, the only way that the show could've really made sense.

He does also echo the Master in that opening sequence. "Funny, no, little bit?" The darkness is there... it's just muted.

[tri.ad]

I really like the 2009 specials as well. Of course, TEOT is out of this world; and I think that rob's point also reflects in the regeneration process of the Doctor. Remember the 9th Doctor? He went out with a smile and a joke, and the 10th Doctor's last moments were filled with desperation and - maybe even to a further extent - loneliness. Maybe that's one of the few times where one could truly see how the Doctor felt inside because of it all. Might also have got something to do with the fact that there's no companion in his presence - he really "died" alone, without anyone for whom he had to put on an act.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I can definitely see some correlation between those two things.

[ACID_FOX]

"They leave. Because they should or because they find someone else. And some of them, some of them... forget me. I suppose in the end, they break my heart."

I cried.

[adameastment]

Righto, just seen the most recent episode of Torchwood... Something is confusing me... When they say, "We are everywhere, we are nowhere" doesn't that sound suspiciously like the Silence? I would actually like to see it being the silence, since they were an "adult" alien in my eyes

Also, just made my doctor who collection up to date tonight, already got series 1 + 2. Just bought series' 3, 4, 5 and the specials.

[ACID_FOX]

Righto, just seen the most recent episode of Torchwood... Something is confusing me... When they say, "We are everywhere, we are nowhere" doesn't that sound suspiciously like the Silence? I would actually like to see it being the silence, since they were an "adult" alien in my eyes

Also, just made my doctor who collection up to date tonight, already got series 1 + 2. Just bought series' 3, 4, 5 and the specials.

Yeah, I was waiting for him to say "Silence will fall", but alas. It'd be really cool if it was, it would emphasize the extent of their control and influence, but I doubt it. I'm starting to doubt whether it's even alien at this point.

[robwebster]

Righto, just seen the most recent episode of Torchwood... Something is confusing me... When they say, "We are everywhere, we are nowhere" doesn't that sound suspiciously like the Silence? I would actually like to see it being the silence, since they were an "adult" alien in my eyes

Also, just made my doctor who collection up to date tonight, already got series 1 + 2. Just bought series' 3, 4, 5 and the specials.

Yeah! It does sound Silencey, and I did think that a couple of times.

On the other hand, I can't see RTD having called up Steven and gone "soooo... any interesting monsters in the pipeline?" I'm sure they keep each other in the loop, but I think RTD's monsters are more conspiratorial.

How fucking creepy was that episode, by the way? Every scene in a car was high-octane nightmare fuel. Dear me. I've got a hunch I'm never watching that one again. Brilliant, but ack! And I was so smug when Oswald stole the limelight from the Dead Is Dead bigot.

[adameastment]

Yeah! It does sound Silencey, and I did think that a couple of times.

On the other hand, I can't see RTD having called up Steven and gone "soooo... any interesting monsters in the pipeline?" I'm sure they keep each other in the loop, but I think RTD's monsters are more conspiratorial.

How fucking creepy was that episode, by the way? Every scene in a car was high-octane nightmare fuel. Dear me. I've got a hunch I'm never watching that one again. Brilliant, but ack! And I was so smug when Oswald stole the limelight from the Dead Is Dead bigot.

But, the whole Silence thing is a worldwide phenomenon, and they do have the technology to keep someone alive without any help... Although, it wasn't the Silence who made River "Time Lordey". To be honest, the Silence were never actually explained in great detail, only that they kept River alive when she was a child (how did they get her? We don't know). I think that if anything, Moffat may have got the Silence from RTD possibly? Since filming for Who is in Summer time (onwards), and I would imaging RTD may have begun writing the basic story for Miracle Day earlier than that (what with Children of Earth airing around the same time the xmas episode was being filmed?). I do come up with some quite impossible scenarios, this is probably one of them xD

It's definitely all very cloak and dagger, but I don't think that whoever is controlling this "miracle" is human by any means. It's a tough one.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah! It does sound Silencey, and I did think that a couple of times.

On the other hand, I can't see RTD having called up Steven and gone "soooo... any interesting monsters in the pipeline?" I'm sure they keep each other in the loop, but I think RTD's monsters are more conspiratorial.

How fucking creepy was that episode, by the way? Every scene in a car was high-octane nightmare fuel. Dear me. I've got a hunch I'm never watching that one again. Brilliant, but ack! And I was so smug when Oswald stole the limelight from the Dead Is Dead bigot.

Yeah - being crushed in that car yet still alive would be minging. :/

[Kotowboy]

Episode 5 was not bad.

This series is pretty minging but so compelling !! I'm hooked.

*SPOILER ALERT*


I'm guessing once you're incinerated then you're truly dead ?


*SPOLER ENDS*

Can't wait for next week !!

[robwebster]

Yeah! It does sound Silencey, and I did think that a couple of times.

On the other hand, I can't see RTD having called up Steven and gone "soooo... any interesting monsters in the pipeline?" I'm sure they keep each other in the loop, but I think RTD's monsters are more conspiratorial.

How fucking creepy was that episode, by the way? Every scene in a car was high-octane nightmare fuel. Dear me. I've got a hunch I'm never watching that one again. Brilliant, but ack! And I was so smug when Oswald stole the limelight from the Dead Is Dead bigot.

But, the whole Silence thing is a worldwide phenomenon, and they do have the technology to keep someone alive without any help... Although, it wasn't the Silence who made River "Time Lordey". To be honest, the Silence were never actually explained in great detail, only that they kept River alive when she was a child (how did they get her? We don't know). I think that if anything, Moffat may have got the Silence from RTD possibly? Since filming for Who is in Summer time (onwards), and I would imaging RTD may have begun writing the basic story for Miracle Day earlier than that (what with Children of Earth airing around the same time the xmas episode was being filmed?). I do come up with some quite impossible scenarios, this is probably one of them xD

It's definitely all very cloak and dagger, but I don't think that whoever is controlling this "miracle" is human by any means. It's a tough one.

Nor do I... but, on the other hand, the longer we spend with an all-human cast, the more jarring the tonal switch'll feel if any aliens turn up. I'm starting to seriously consider the absence of any aliens. I could very much imagine unseen aliens, but the humans, once again, are the playing the role of the monsters for now.  See also: this week!

Episode 5 was not bad.

This series is pretty minging but so compelling !! I'm hooked.

*SPOILER ALERT*

I'm guessing once you're incinerated then you're truly dead ?

*SPOLER ENDS*

Can't wait for next week !!

Yep! Totally dead. According to Jane Espenson on twitter. Absolutely harrowing. The worst bit? I've got a feeling things are only ever going to get worse. :s

[Kotowboy]

I don't mind. It's escapism. I'm not a horror fan in the slightest but this is as dark as i'm willing to go

I think being stuck in the squashed car would be the worst imo.

Pretty sure you'd pass out from the heat in the incinerator first.

[Kotowboy]

]Yep! Totally dead. According to Jane Espenson on twitter. Absolutely harrowing. The worst bit? I've got a feeling things are only ever going to get worse. :s

It's like they've thought of all the worst things that could possibly happen to a human and are throwing them all in.

Much more sinister than any hollywood slasher cookie cutter nonsense.

Wes Craven couldn't direct traffic.

[Kotowboy]

Just seen a Matt Smith episode of Dr. Who where they go outside the universe and the TARDIS spirit is transported into a woman's body.

I think it's the first time since the classic Dr. Who era that i've actually seen corridors in the TARDIS.

Pretty cool episode

[robwebster]

Just seen a Matt Smith episode of Dr. Who where they go outside the universe and the TARDIS spirit is transported into a woman's body.

I think it's the first time since the classic Dr. Who era that i've actually seen corridors in the TARDIS.

Pretty cool episode

Ah! The Doctor's Wife. Yeah, they built corridors specifically for that episode, and they've said they're keeping them as a standing set. Which is ace. Very classic-looking corridors they are, too.

I don't mind. It's escapism. I'm not a horror fan in the slightest but this is as dark as i'm willing to go

I think being stuck in the squashed car would be the worst imo.

Pretty sure you'd pass out from the heat in the incinerator first.

Totally! They're stretching at the limit of what I'm comfortable watching, but without quite crossing that boundary from "morbidly compelling" into "genuinely unwatchable."

Apparently people aren't "big" on going unconscious, right now - see also, Jack's "more alive than ever" speech - so they'd probably be conscious as they burned. Even creepier. Shudders down the spine.

[Kotowboy]

But depending on how much damage they already had, they might have no nerve endings anyway. The guy in episode 1 who blew himself up definitely couldn't feel anymore.

You'd probably just be a consciousness without a body.

[Kotowboy]

Dunno if you *do* MSN or Skype.. Would be cool to chat outside DTF ?

Or Twitter at least

Follow me @KotowDave

[ariich]

Don't do that if it means less DW and TW chat in here!

Going to catch up on the latest episode today (latest BBC episode that is... I assume the Americans are one more ahead)

[adameastment]

I'm just getting back into Series 3 with Smith and Jones. I loved this series so much when it was on, it's a shame they only show Dalek episodes on the re-runs to be honest. I also got the Revisitations box set and I watched the Movie with McGann.

Now I'm onto my favourite episodes from Series 3, then possibly skip straight to the specials. All I can say is, I'm in for a good few days of telly!

[Bonham]

Just went through a power watching session of all the last six Miracle Day episodes... I'm pretty impressed, so far. RTD really seems to hit it on the nail when he asks these tremendous, unanswerable questions (How can a government humanely deal with a population that can't die, would you passively let the human race die, actively hand over 10% of the world's children, or personally kill your own son to save them all? Small text for CoE spoilers).

Anyway, I'm sensing several religious undertones to this series, and I'm starting to think Oswald Danes is the antichrist. Emphasis on the word "revelation" in his speech, mentioning ascendance to angels, and the whole "false prophet" thing sort of works with his connections to PhiCorp. He's also essentially the anti-Harkness, who is obviously Jesus.

Of course, my limited knowledge of the Bible means I'm probably horribly wrong about this, but I'm still calling it now.

[tri.ad]

Is there any information about when DW continues in the UK? Wiki says that in the US, the next episode is to be broadcast on the 27th, but that doesn't really help...

[ariich]

I'm pretty sure it'll be the same date in the UK. So excited, been watching from the start of series 1 and just coming up to the first half of series 6 now.

[robwebster]

Yeah, the BBC doesn't tend to confirm a returning series until ten days before broadcast. They made an exception with The Impossible Astronaut, for some reason, by telling Doctor Who Magazine quite publically, but every other series of Doctor Who has been confirmed Wednesday of the week before the show's return.

TV in the USA works differently, so they get it quite a while in advance, but we won't be getting it after the USA 'cause we're not allowed to do that, and we won't be getting it before the USA because in that case it would have to have been announced on Wednesday. 27th is the only date that makes sense - the BBC just don't want to show their hand too soon by announcing a time, 'cause ITV try to steal viewers by putting on Harry Potter.

[tri.ad]

Ah, I didn't know about the way the BBC announces stuff like that. Good to know that we don't have to wait that long anymore.

In other news, I found a way to watch Classic Doctor Who recently and decided to start with the last Patrick Troughton serial (The War Games), since many of the oldest episodes are missing. So far, I watched three episodes, and at the moment, it is enjoyable, but the fact that many things are low-budget and so dated can make it hard at times. Still, the storyline seems intriguing enough that I will keep watching.

Also, of course, I'm really excited about the actual next episode. If the trailers weren't put together by the most intense moments, I think we're in for a real treat.

[ariich]

The War Games isn't too exciting, it has some nice ideas but it drags on a bit long. There are some other much better Troughton episodes though.

[adameastment]

Ah, I didn't know about the way the BBC announces stuff like that. Good to know that we don't have to wait that long anymore.

In other news, I found a way to watch Classic Doctor Who recently and decided to start with the last Patrick Troughton serial (The War Games), since many of the oldest episodes are missing. So far, I watched three episodes, and at the moment, it is enjoyable, but the fact that many things are low-budget and so dated can make it hard at times. Still, the storyline seems intriguing enough that I will keep watching.

Also, of course, I'm really excited about the actual next episode. If the trailers weren't put together by the most intense moments, I think we're in for a real treat.

After watching the revisitations box set, I really think you're right. I think that Doctor Who still doesn't have a substantial budget, they really do manage to pull it out the hat though (there is a few bits of bad CGI here and there, I noticed one bit on The 2006 xmas special).

I really want to get hold of the episodes with multiple doctors in, they had some really good storylines. Didn't some of them have to play "A Game of Rassilon"? Or something like that.

Currently I'm rewatching the Silence in the Library episodes, then I shall move on to "Turn Left" and the finale of Series 4. Then the specials, particularly "The Waters of Mars". I love that episode.

[tri.ad]

The Waters Of Mars is really intense, and I like the foreshadowing of the Tenth Doctor's end (however, I'm not too fond of his attitude he displays, though it's perfectly understandable in some ways).

I think I'll rewatch Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead as well; the Vashta Nerada are absolutely terrifying, and I'd love Steven Moffat to use them again.

[adameastment]

The Waters Of Mars is really intense, and I like the foreshadowing of the Tenth Doctor's end (however, I'm not too fond of his attitude he displays, though it's perfectly understandable in some ways).

I think I'll rewatch Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead as well; the Vashta Nerada are absolutely terrifying, and I'd love Steven Moffat to use them again.

Yeah, I think the attitude is definitely understandable. Purely because "the last of the time lords" syndrome . I loved that episode because of the Doctors attitude actually, because of the way he believes he can now make the rules!

The Vashta Nerada are very cool, it was a very cool episode to bring River Song into the Whoniverse, even though it was her death. I can't wait until the series continues later this month.. I really can't wait!

I also would like to add, that "Turn Left" is really a fantastic episode brilliantly done in my opinion. I've always loved the episode, just the way it flows is really great. One of my favourites!

[tri.ad]

Yeah, Turn Left is really great and a very cool starting point for the "Journey's End" three-parter.

[adameastment]

Yeah, Turn Left is really great and a very cool starting point for the "Journey's End" three-parter.

I wish I hadn't bought the box sets now, since I'm just addicted