Doctor Who

[BlobVanDam]

Rob, your link appears to have eaten a 7.

I agree with him that S5 was his best season, although S6 was also quite good overall. S7 is the weaker to me, probably partially because the first half had Rory and Amy dragging their heels on the way out, then the second half didn't have as many episodes to develop a full arc, besides Clara's origin, which I enjoyed. S7 did finish incredibly strongly, which redeemed it somewhat.

By all accounts, they're trying to shake things up in S8 with the new Doc, so it will be an interesting new era for the show.

[ariich]

I pretty much agree with you Rob - on the whole my favourite episodes are the character driven ones. Vincent. Doctor's Wife. Girl Who Waited. But it's not always the case - as much as I like the character stuff in Silence in the Library, it's the plot itself that makes it really stand out to me.

[robwebster]

That's fair! I think I'm sort of trying to get at a general trend rather than an absolute rule, and there are some utterly brilliant monsters-first stories, but even in Silence in the Library, I think the two strands coalesce beautifully. Even once the Vashta Nerada are off the scene, it's just one punch the air moment after another, and you've got both the beginning and the end of the River Song arc. I think it's an utterly spectacular monster-plot, with a lot of great character stuff woven right in.

But yeah, "come for the monsters, stay for the people," was off the cuff, just part of a stream of consciousness rambling, it wasn't something I'd spent much time thinking about! Don't expect it to hold too much water, just that there are a lot of very replayable episodes that follow that format.

[ariich]

Yeah it's not the monsters in Silence in the Library so much as the story concepts.

[Onno]

Definitely. The "Hey, who turned out the lights?!" bits were epic though.

[Super Dude]

Funny - I always thought those moments were creepy as F, but I've heard tell that many people actually consider that laughably cheesy.

[Onno]

I don't know, I didn't find them cheesy at all. I loved that.

[Super Dude]

Neither did I, I'm just sayin'.

[Onno]

I know I was just wondering about why someone could see that as cheesy. I guess it's not the most original thing ever, for some people it may be a bit too much of a horror cliché.

Just watched The Doctor's Wife by the way. Wow, that was an epic episode!

[Scorpion]

Very belated: Both The Day of the Doctor and The Time of the Doctor were the tits. Loved everything about both of them. Matt Smith's final monologue was beautiful.

"I wll always remember when the Doctor was me." 

[Super Dude]

My opinion of Time of the Doctor has decreased over time, actually. It wasn't the send-off I was hoping for, much less something that would qualify as "the tits."

[Scorpion]

I should mention that I'm easily pleased. I don't think there's a single Matt Smith episode that I'd call bad, so I guess my standards are just low. The worst is probably Closing Time or The Curse of the Black Spot, and even those have some really cool stuff.

I can totally see why people don't love Time, btw. It's just that I do.

On a semi-related matter, I have finished watching the Classic Series. There's sooooo much there, but here's - very quickly - my favourite story from each Doctor.

1st: The Time Meddler
2nd: The War Games
3rd: Carnival of Monsters
4th: tie between Pyramids of Mars, The Pirate Planet and Warrior's Gate
5th: tie between Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment and The Caves of Androzani
6th: The Mysterious Planet (Trial of a Time Lord)
7th: tie between The Greatest Show in the Galaxy and The Curse of Fenric

[ariich]

Awesome Scrop, glad you caught up, and glad you have the Pirate Planet among your favourites, that's such a fun story with some really cool ideas.

Have you watched the 8th Doctor's TV movie as well? If so then you are indeed fully caught up.

[BlobVanDam]

Is the 8th Doctor's movie worth watching? I've heard it's not very good, but I've been meaning to check it out for a little while now.

[Super Dude]

It's fun in a campy sorta way.

[hefdaddy42]

Is the 8th Doctor's movie worth watching? I've heard it's not very good, but I've been meaning to check it out for a little while now.

I am by no means a Doctor Who scholar, but I thought that movie was a lot of fun.

[BlobVanDam]

Is the 8th Doctor's movie worth watching? I've heard it's not very good, but I've been meaning to check it out for a little while now.

I am by no means a Doctor Who scholar, but I thought that movie was a lot of fun.

Neither am I, so that's good enough for me.

And also, for reasons that escape me, I just watched Sharknado again on TV, so anything will seem amazing after that.

[Scorpion]

Paul McGann is easily the best thing about it (the TV movie). Lots of things in this movie are actually quite bad, though, and pretty much contradict the canon set up during the first 26 seasons.

But yeah, it's entertaining if nothing else.

[hefdaddy42]

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." - Walt Whitman

Surely the same can be said for Doctor Who and his 50 years of TV.

[robwebster]

I can remember exactly the last time I watched the TV movie, and that's November 23rd, 2013. Also the last time I watched The Name of the Doctor. Thought it'd be a fun warmup to Day of the Doctor, and it was fun, but watching it with people around really highlighted its flaws. On your own, you just plough on. "Fair enough, he drezzes for the occasion, understood. What happens next?" With people, that kind of thing lingers, and there are a lot of lines like that that stink out loud. As made-for-TV movies go, there are many, many worse, and Paul McGann is superb in it, but it's not quite as good as a proper movie might be, and it's not quite as good as a proper episode of a TV show, either.

[Scorpion]

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." - Walt Whitman

Surely the same can be said for Doctor Who and his 50 years of TV.

True, but some of them are unnecessary and there for no discernible reason, like the Doctor saying that he's half human on his mother's side or something like that.

[robwebster]

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." - Walt Whitman

Surely the same can be said for Doctor Who and his 50 years of TV.

True, but some of them are unnecessary and there for no discernible reason, like the Doctor saying that he's half human on his mother's side or something like that.

Some silly masterplan - they had all sorts of stuff laid out if it was picked up for a full series, I think the Doctor and the Master were going to be half-brothers or something? Thanks for Paul McGann, TVM, but I think the show found its way to the right people in the end.

I should mention that I'm easily pleased. I don't think there's a single Matt Smith episode that I'd call bad, so I guess my standards are just low. The worst is probably Closing Time or The Curse of the Black Spot, and even those have some really cool stuff.

Oh, yeah, it's always quality TV. "Bad" is relative. Closing Time and The Name of the Doctor are good, well-produced television episodes, but they're just not my bag in terms of Doctor Who.

Last episode I rewatched was The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe. I've never disliked it, it's always entertained me, but time and distance have done that episode huge credit. I think, at the time, I was sort of hoping for it to be all things Doctor Who - wit and thrills and scares all wrapped in a devilishly clever Christmas bow. It's not that at all, but I do love what it is. Claire Skinner is absolutely brilliant in it -

"I found a spaceman in a field, possibly an angel, but he's injured and I can't get his helmet off, so I'm having to take him into town to find a police telephone box, all right?"
"Stay inside - the rain is frightful!"
"What have I told you about opening your presents early? Something like this was bound to happen!"
"It's funny! One can't imagine being a forest, then suddenly one can."

I love the harvest rangers, too. "Sorry, sir. It's under control. Do you want me to shoot her?"

There's a couple of lines I don't like - "humany wumany" among them - but the ep's so witty, very moving, and I love how it subtly weaves into the bigger story. The man who let his family believe him dead. Last few scenes are perfect.

[Onno]

Arthur Darvill doing his own rendition of Let It Go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDyBBAjRHg

[abydos]

Damn, that was quite the performance.

[Onno]

By the way, I just watched A Good Man Goes To War and Let's Kill Hitler. Those were absolutely amazing. Loved the "Hitler in the cupboard" thing.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

A Good Man Goes to War is amazing, but Let's Kill Hitler is really the only Moffat-era episode I think is poor.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought A Good Man Goes to War was great, but I'm mixed on Let's Kill Hitler. It had a lot of good ideas, but I hate River Song, and she was even more annoying than usual in it, and I was expecting more Hitler given the name of the episode. It was fun that he was played as a quick laugh, but it wasn't the direction I was expecting the episode to go.

[robwebster]

[PSA: Open spoilers follow! Onno... tread carefully!]

"I really was hoping for a bit more Hitler," remains the weirdest criticism of any TV show, ever. I mean, I get it, given the title and the episode I totally get it, I just never tire of the way it looks written down.

For what it's worth, pretty much everyone in that episode is trying to kill their own personal Hitler in their own special way, so although it's not the episode I was expecting, I think the title was spot on. It's an episode that starts to show up the weaknesses in the arc - psycho-River is dispatched way, way, way too quickly for the Silence's upbringing to feel at all meaningful - but the things that make it weaker in the context of the arc actually make for a stronger episode. The split focus means we don't really see that much of River breaking her programming, which hurts the arc, but it means we do get all the wonderful stuff in the Teselecta (which is brilliant, I love the Teselecta), it gives the Doctor and his companions something different to do, it's all these superb, mad things crashing into each other. LKH is great telly, it's an utterly brilliant episode of Doctor Who, but when I'm thinking of the series 6 arc, I think it also represents a few of the things I wish they'd done better.

For want of more time!

[BlobVanDam]

"I really was hoping for a bit more Hitler," remains the weirdest criticism of any TV show, ever. I mean, I get it, given the title and the episode I totally get it, I just never tire of the way it looks written down.

It largely comes down to the title setting up an expectation. I know a title is ultimately a trivial thing, but when you name the episode after such a huge historical figure who only gets a minute of screen time before being locked in a closet, there's a bit of disappointment, especially given that River Song gets so much time instead. That's like a double kick in the face to me!
And yes, I realize how odd it sounds to essentially say "Aw, I really wanted more Hitler!".

The Teselecta is definitely the best thing to come from the episode, and sets up the solution for the season arc later on. And seeing The Doctor's reaction to dying was another highlight (even though it arguably creates an inconsistency with the later idea of the War Doctor when he believes he's going to regenerate).

[ariich]

It's an episode that starts to show up the weaknesses in the arc - psycho-River is dispatched way, way, way too quickly for the Silence's upbringing to feel at all meaningful

Agreed. I don't think the weaknesses are in the arc itself (which I enjoy immensely), but in the pacing. The first half of the season is so perfectly paced, with a hugely engaging build up to A Good Man Goes to War, but from LKH onwards the pacing is totally off, and really good episodes become a bit forgettable because you're wondering what's happing in the context of the overall arc, which then again gets rushed at the end of the series.

[Super Dude]

Eh, I'm with Blob on the River hate. To me she adds absolutely nothing to the series and talks in stupid cryptic phrases like "Spoilers." I wasn't interested in whatever mystery she held because she was just annoyingly smug.

[robwebster]

I sort of get both sides. I think she adds something to the show that's a lot of fun, but I think she's a little too superhero and not enough geography teacher. She's done some wonderful emotive stuff, but as Amy herself notes, she doesn't act like a person! The Doctor is frail, and fallible, and despite his Time Lord heritage he's basically just a bloke. Despite basically being human, River Song has all these supernormal talents and powers, she's this sort of big, bolshy cartoon, right up to the hair drawn by children. It's like, the Doctor is amazing, but basically a person - River Song is a person, but basically amazing. She's great fun on screen, though. I think she's a net gain to the show, I love having the TARDIS so full of all these different people. I can't imagine The Impossible Astronaut, The Pandorica Opens, The Time of Angels or especially Silence in the Library without her.

I think The Name of the Doctor would have been stronger in her absence, though. I don't buy the time-travelling psychic link at the best of times - while I love the genuinely horrifying scene it gave us of Jenny dying (less fond of how cheaply she's resurrected!), it largely seems to have been an excuse for Alex Kingston to spook around as a sort of walking metaphor. Pulled at a thread that wasn't dangling in the first place.

Mixed blessing - but what isn't! AK hams it up, but it usually works, sometimes gloriously.

WRT the arc - I think I'd sub out Closing Time, and in its place, I'd delegate some of the arc leg-work to Gareth Roberts. Give him an episode with Canton Everett Delaware III as a companion. Not so it forms an actual two-parter, but start drip-feeding some answers, clarify the Silence, so TWoRS can fit in a bit more story without scrabbling to close up a (four-episode, but complex and non-linear!) arc.

[Super Dude]

That's well summed up. She's a black hole sue to me, which is essentially the same thing.

[Onno]

Just finished S6 - loved it! Probably my second favourite behind S4.

[Scorpion]

What your thoughts on the season arc? I still like it, though it could have been executed better, and it's definitely the weakest Moffat-era season arc in my opinion.