Doctor Who

[ariich]

Well, I personally don't have any trouble following Moffat's plotlines. If you pay attention and actually watch the episodes (whilst rewatching them later may help as well) then it isn't that difficult to piece together his plotlines.

Moffat at least was able to shift the show's dynamic from a sci-fi adventure-filled soap opera (sorry RTD) to an actual family sci-fi drama with elements of fantasy-- something that is much more akin to how classic Doctor Who was.

Yeah, but there's a huge disconnect between your first and second paragraphs. On one hand, MOffat's catering to an ever-increasing audience of diehards who are gonna pay close attention, rewatch, and go online to sort out every little detail to follow the show. On the other hand, Moffat's trying to keep the show an all-ages, family sci0-fi. Something tells me that little Timmy and Mom and Dad aren't gonna be doing due diligence to put everything together.

That's my only real criticism, overall. It's hard to cater to the diehard fans while keeping the family show vibe going, and Moffat has done an OK but not perfect job of doing that. I personally find the show difficult to follow occasionally. There are several plotpoints from the Moffat era that I'm pretty unclear on, I'm just happy enough to move on.

Kids find it easy enough to follow, so adults really shouldn't have any trouble at all. I think it's laziness mostly - the majority of adults don't bother to invest much thought in what they're watching. Moffat's writing is clever and he loves to play around with non-linear storytelling, but it really isn't that complicated.

[wasteland]

For me, I've never had any trouble following any of the storyline, and the increased relative complexity of those is one of the two main reason I like the show better since The Eleventh Hour.

[BlobVanDam]

I haven't had any problem following the story lines. It also helps that I binged on the entire show in a couple of weeks, so all of the story arcs were fresh in my mind, but for the genre I don't think the stories are hard to follow at all.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't have a problem following it either, and neither do my daughters (age 10 and 17).  We love watching the show together - indeed, it is one of the few shows on TV for which I can say that, and I am thankful for it. 

[Perpetual Change]

Kids find it easy enough to follow, so adults really shouldn't have any trouble at all. I think it's laziness mostly - the majority of adults don't bother to invest much thought in what they're watching. Moffat's writing is clever and he loves to play around with non-linear storytelling, but it really isn't that complicated.

I'd say kids follow it because they take the show the same way I tend to - they don't get hung up on all the different plot points and just roll with it. The same is not true about many of the diehards.

TBH, I should say I only had trouble following the "Spaceman Suit" arc, probably because I was on my DS while trying to watch the episodes.

[Jaq]

Some interesting points of view here. I haven't been following the show nearly long enough to have any input but I do agree with some of the stuff said about the writing.

Well couldn't a "cycle" just refer to one body's "life"? I'm not all up on my Doctor lingo, but that's a pretty obvious interpretation to me.

But he says regeneration cycle; Cycle meaning multiple events and Regeneration being the event.

Please don't think I'm seriously worried about this, but I must point out that is not the only way to define the word "cycle."

For instance, the dictionary on my laptop has a whole list of definitions, and the first two lines are:

-A series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order
-The period of time taken to complete a single sequence of such events

So a regeneration cycle could refer to a series of regenerations, but it could also refer to the span of one regeneration. Ya dig?

Like snowdog said, it doesn't really matter because they will always find a way around the "rules" to keep The Doctor around, I'm just saying it's jumping to conclusions to assume that he definitely has 12 more.

Okay I actually left a sentence out when I wrote this, let's edit:

The origins of the term "regeneration cycle" in Doctor Who come from the 20th Anniversary episode The Five Doctors, where the High Council of the Time Lords offer the Master, who was presently out of regenerations and could only live by stealing bodies, a new regeneration cycle. It's the old series term for the full life of a Time Lord, all 13 lives.  Given that Moffat directly referenced the episode in question in the Time of the Doctor-when the Doctor mentions taking the seal of the High Council from the Master-it's a safe bet that he's suggesting the definition to be another 13 Doctors, not that they'll have to answer this question in a couple years down the line.

As the series has defined it previously-and as the hardcore fanboys will most definitely argue for it-regeneration cycle means 13 more Doctors. Capaldi plus 12 more, barring any incidents that are like how 10 saving his life with regeneration energy became a regeneration after the fact.

[bout to crash]

Ahh, gotcha. Like I said before, I am not up on my lingo and wasn't familiar with that term or episode. Without the history it could mean either thing, but obviously the term comes with more baggage than I knew!

[abydos]

Pretty interesting read, mainly criticising Moffat in Smith-era seasons. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/print/2013/12/the-captain-kirk-problem-how-em-doctor-who-em-betrayed-matt-smith/282690/

Spoilers, of course.

[hefdaddy42]

Pretty interesting read, mainly criticising Moffat in Smith-era seasons. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/print/2013/12/the-captain-kirk-problem-how-em-doctor-who-em-betrayed-matt-smith/282690/

Spoilers, of course.

That guy needs to get a life.

[BlobVanDam]

While there are one or two legit criticisms in there (such as Clara not having much opportunity to grow yet beyond a basic companion plot device), it mostly reads like a pseudo-intelligent rant by someone who thought their opinion matters because they have an internet connection and tvtropes bookmarked.

[El JoNNo]

I didn't read it all but some of his points could be attributed to Tennant as well; the bragging certainly could be. Tennant had a thing for announcing that he was a Time Lord from Gallifrey, and he was old, and blah blah blah...


I love the Christmas special but did anyone notice how odd it was that they didn't really explain how the Doctor with seemingly no technology managed to hold off all those enemies for about a 1000 years? Or did I missed something?

[BlobVanDam]

I didn't read it all but some of his points could be attributed to Tennant as well; the bragging certainly could be. Tennant had a thing for announcing that he was a Time Lord from Gallifrey, and he was old, and blah blah blah...

By the later Tennant episodes, he would often announce that he was the doctor, and that the aliens could either leave, or he'd make them. He was equally arrogant in the RTD era. I actually like that the doctor has a natural tendency for arrogance and self importance and over-confidence, and that his companions help humble him a bit. I think the RTD era did a good job of that.

[ariich]

The irony is that the writer of that article is horribly arrogant. He literally doesn't believe that the surge in popularity of the show could possibly be because of how good it is. He doesn't like it, therefore it must be bad, and there must be other reasons for its popularity.

I only read the first few paragraphs but that's enough for me. What a clown!

[El JoNNo]

I didn't read it all but some of his points could be attributed to Tennant as well; the bragging certainly could be. Tennant had a thing for announcing that he was a Time Lord from Gallifrey, and he was old, and blah blah blah...

By the later Tennant episodes, he would often announce that he was the doctor, and that the aliens could either leave, or he'd make them. He was equally arrogant in the RTD era. I actually like that the doctor has a natural tendency for arrogance and self importance and over-confidence, and that his companions help humble him a bit. I think the RTD era did a good job of that.

The Time Lord Victorious!

[ariich]

Yeah, that's a good point about Tenant actually. Swagger =/= arrogance. Towards the end, the 10th Doctor was far more arrogant than the 11th ever was. And the 6th Doctor was the most arrogant of the lot.

[El JoNNo]

No kidding about the 6th Doctor. All the Doctors have been arrogant to a degree but 6 I couldn't watch. I tried watching the first few episodes of him and he is just an asshole. 4 was arrogant and could be an asshole but he always did it with charm and humour.

[hefdaddy42]

Aren't the various incarnations of the Doctor supposed to have different personalities/quirks?  Isn't that part of the point?  Then it would make perfect sense that some would be more or less "arrogant" than others.

What an asshat.

[El JoNNo]

Yeah that's the point; doesn't mean I have to like them all. 

The asshat.

[ariich]

No kidding about the 6th Doctor. All the Doctors have been arrogant to a degree but 6 I couldn't watch. I tried watching the first few episodes of him and he is just an asshole. 4 was arrogant and could be an asshole but he always did it with charm and humour.

Oh you should stick with him, he eases up a lot. In his first story (The Twin Dilemma) his behaviour is outrageous as a side-effect of the regeneration, but with each story he gets more empathetic, and he has a good humour to him. But yeah, still the most arrogant Doctor we've had.

However...

Aren't the various incarnations of the Doctor supposed to have different personalities/quirks?  Isn't that part of the point?  Then it would make perfect sense that some would be more or less "arrogant" than others.

What an asshat.

Exactly. That's part of the joy of the show, and one of the key reasons it has lasted so long!

[abydos]

[El JoNNo]

Harry really needed to show Sarah-Jane his pimp hand. She was such an insufferable bitch to him....Sorry watching some 4th Doctor lol

[hefdaddy42]

Tom Baker FTW

BTW, last night BBCAmerica showed "The End of Time" at midnight for New Year's.  But no way I could stay up to watch the whole thing again lol.

[bout to crash]

Hawt.

[Super Dude]

My brother is so pissed about the Xmas special, he thinks it's such a travesty. Like sure, I didn't love it, but then again I was only there for the regeneration anyway, and that was good enough that I didn't mind the rest.

[masterthes]

It might have been the weakest of the last three episodes, but it was far from a travesty

[hefdaddy42]

It might have been the weakest of the last three episodes, but it was far from a travesty

This

[Heretic]

Yeah, and who would want the task of following up the 50th and trying to make it an even better celebration? I'm glad it was a different beast entirely.

[BlobVanDam]

It might have been the weakest of the last three episodes, but it was far from a travesty

So that would be The Name/Day/Time of the Doctor as the last 3? I thought the Christmas special was much better than The Name of the Doctor, although not as good as the 50th, so I was completely happy with it.
What is it about the Christmas special that some people hate anyway?

[Super Dude]

I think people hate (for some reason) the idea of having an older Doctor. I actually think it's a breath of fresh air, and even if I were to prefer a younger Doctor, Capaldi is too great to hate the change anyway.

[adameastment]

I think people hate (for some reason) the idea of having an older Doctor. I actually think it's a breath of fresh air, and even if I were to prefer a younger Doctor, Capaldi is too great to hate the change anyway.

Capaldi doesn't even *look* that old though, and he's only like 12 years (or so) older than what Tennant is now. People need to get a grip 

[BlobVanDam]

I think people hate (for some reason) the idea of having an older Doctor. I actually think it's a breath of fresh air, and even if I were to prefer a younger Doctor, Capaldi is too great to hate the change anyway.

Do people really dislike an episode based on the new Doctor's 15 seconds of screen time?

I think it's good they cast an older Doctor, as it keeps it fresh to have variety with each Doctor. I haven't seen much Capaldi, but I've seen enough to be optimistic until I've at least seen him in a whole episode to judge properly. Hopefully once we've seen him in action, people will change their tune.

[Jaq]

They actually were going to go with an older Doctor for 11, but Matt Smith just wowed them so they changed their minds. The Doctor is centuries old and an alien, him turning into an older self shouldn't bug anyone.

[BlobVanDam]

I want the next Doctor to be a black chick, just to see people flip out.

[El JoNNo]

I want the next Doctor to be a black chick, just to see people flip out.

As long as it's not a black male. I don't why but every time I hear a black male's British accent it annoys me. I was hoping Micky would die.

[bout to crash]

Um, I'm pretty sure they don't all have the same voice 

As for the older Doctor thing, I have heard a lot of people complain about that and I don't get it. I am happy about it, personally.