Author Topic: Doctor Who  (Read 216611 times)

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Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1540 on: August 28, 2012, 02:22:09 PM »
Not to mention that the romance is a bit hard to swollow. They only like each other because they've hinted to each other that they're supposed to.

Offline Nekov

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1541 on: August 28, 2012, 02:47:22 PM »
And also because they are both (Spoilers!!!!!) timelords. It's really too forced
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1542 on: August 28, 2012, 04:53:30 PM »
I like River Song, I just feel her story in series 6 was a little... rushed? I'm sure there was a behind the scenes reason for it - most likely, they wanted to make sure they could tell all her stories while she was definitely available, and while Amy and Rory were still in the TARDIS too - but we've now seen her birth, her wedding, her death, her abduction, her training-and-defection in very quick succession, the reason she's in Stormcage - and then, in the series 6 extras (of all places!!) we see her last night, and her first night, and it's just too much, too fast. Loved her in series 5. Small revelations, building.

Everything they've done with her is great, and everything in series 6 is basically good - but like the series itself, she's less than the sum of her parts. Lots of nice ideas, and there's not a bad River Song episode, but they've been grafted together rather too hastily. Out of necessity, I presume, but she sort of lurches in and out of focus, and it's such a shame after the brilliant, clever, and very elegant series 5.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1543 on: August 28, 2012, 05:04:33 PM »
I like River Song, I just feel her story in series 6 was a little... rushed? I'm sure there was a behind the scenes reason for it - most likely, they wanted to make sure they could tell all her stories while she was definitely available, and while Amy and Rory were still in the TARDIS too - but we've now seen her birth, her wedding, her death, her abduction, her training-and-defection in very quick succession, the reason she's in Stormcage - and then, in the series 6 extras (of all places!!) we see her last night, and her first night, and it's just too much, too fast. Loved her in series 5. Small revelations, building.

Everything they've done with her is great, and everything in series 6 is basically good - but like the series itself, she's less than the sum of her parts. Lots of nice ideas, and there's not a bad River Song episode, but they've been grafted together rather too hastily. Out of necessity, I presume, but she sort of lurches in and out of focus, and it's such a shame after the brilliant, clever, and very elegant series 5.

This is my biggest problem with last season.  "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song" felt WAY too forced in comparison to how "the Impossible Astronaut"/"Day of the Moon" and "A Good Man Goes to War" were structured, which was pretty damn near perfect, all the while still not concretely answering the question of "why blow up the TARDIS." :P

And I'm not a fan of that series 6 extra you mentioned.  The idea's great, but the last night thing felt forced, and also takes away a lot of River Song mystery and what made her cool, that she had a book of all the Doctor's faces so she'd know who he was no matter what regeneration.  It implied she knew a few more doctors than just 10 and 11, but now we know its just limited to 11 now.  I can understand why, since Moffat won't be showrunner when the 12th takes over, but they could have done it as part of Matt Smith's last episode or something if they needed too.  I dunno. 

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1544 on: August 29, 2012, 04:18:01 AM »
(...) all the while still not concretely answering the question of "why blow up the TARDIS." :P
Oh, yeah! This is the one that really takes the cake. After series 5, it was our hook into the next series. But on the evidence so far, their motive for blowing up the TARDIS, and hence both this universe and every other universe that's ever existed, was... preventing the universe from ending when the question was answered? So to undoom themselves, they decided to... willingly doom themselves? No, doesn't make sense. Wish it did!

Although - the voice in the TARDIS said "Silence will fall" as it was sabotaging it - so it might've been a battle cry, rather than a warning. Rogue silent, then? If that's the case, though, they've not even pretended to explain it in the slightest.

Yeah - it's an orphaned plot thread! Loose end, and one hell of one. But ah well. These things happen. As I said, there's plenty of good in series 6, and if the Doctor landed here right now and told me I was one day going to write something as good as the Impossible Astronaut - or hell, even as good as the Wedding of River Song - I'd openly weep with joy. Good series, just... frustrating, for the kind of fan I am.

Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1545 on: August 29, 2012, 08:32:11 AM »
Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon (are those the names?) are actually among my favorite episodes.

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1546 on: August 29, 2012, 08:42:40 AM »
They are, and likewise! The Girl Who Waited is great, too. Loads of good eps in series 6. Only one real stinker. It's a perfectly fine watch! Never mistake the reservations for antipathy. Not an amazing series, but some stunning episodes. Great writing, great directing, great acting, great set design, great costume, great lighting, great SFX - wonderful stuff.

Offline Jaq

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1547 on: August 29, 2012, 09:31:07 AM »
Not to mention that the romance is a bit hard to swollow. They only like each other because they've hinted to each other that they're supposed to.

For better or worse, Moffat is quite fond of that sort of thing. He loves ontological paradoxes, so it suits him perfectly to have the Doctor and River have a romance strictly because they told each other they did before actually having the romance. Would they have had the romance if they hadn't ever hinted it to each other?

I did feel we got a little too much about River last year, but I do chalk that up to making certain they got it done while they had this particular cast together. It hurt the flow a bit, but its understandable on the logistical side.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1548 on: August 29, 2012, 03:26:51 PM »
Introducing... series 7-A!










Offline Fiery Winds

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1549 on: August 29, 2012, 05:45:58 PM »
:caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine:

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1550 on: August 31, 2012, 05:25:32 AM »
I like River Song, I just feel her story in series 6 was a little... rushed? I'm sure there was a behind the scenes reason for it - most likely, they wanted to make sure they could tell all her stories while she was definitely available, and while Amy and Rory were still in the TARDIS too - but we've now seen her birth, her wedding, her death, her abduction, her training-and-defection in very quick succession, the reason she's in Stormcage - and then, in the series 6 extras (of all places!!) we see her last night, and her first night, and it's just too much, too fast. Loved her in series 5. Small revelations, building.

Everything they've done with her is great, and everything in series 6 is basically good - but like the series itself, she's less than the sum of her parts. Lots of nice ideas, and there's not a bad River Song episode, but they've been grafted together rather too hastily. Out of necessity, I presume, but she sort of lurches in and out of focus, and it's such a shame after the brilliant, clever, and very elegant series 5.
These are basically my thoughts too. I love the character and what they've done with her, but it was definitely rushed in the second half of last series.

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Offline jonny108

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1551 on: September 01, 2012, 09:22:39 AM »
It's on in 3 hours! Eeeeeeee!!!!!

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1552 on: September 01, 2012, 09:36:12 AM »
It's on in 3 hours! Eeeeeeee!!!!!
...Two hours forty-five!

It feels like years since Let's Kill Hitler. And even longer since The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe, for all the sense that doesn't make. There is no excuse. Thank god it's almost over..!

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1553 on: September 01, 2012, 11:16:48 AM »
ONE HOUR! And four minutes. I need something to do while I'm waiting for it to come on, so I'm thinking of working out my top six Dalek episodes. Feel free to join in.

Offline Sketchy

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1554 on: September 01, 2012, 11:21:37 AM »
Tell me if a giant pendulum appears. I'll be cooking.
This is as exciting as superluminal neutrinos. The sexy thing is that this actually exists :D

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1555 on: September 01, 2012, 11:31:02 AM »
Haha - I'll stay alert!

And in the meanwhile... top six dalek stories! New series only. I'll try for one every ten minutes, with 1. going up just before Asylum starts. And I'll edit this post rather than flood the thread.



6. The Stolen Earth

My feelings about this two-parter are so, so mixed. Because the thing is, I love part one to bits. It still doesn't quite feel like a real episode of Doctor Who - it's just this huge, giddy adrenaline rush that bypasses every single one of my critical faculties and drills right into my inner child. I'm not sure I'd ever stop rewatching it. The Stolen Earth, to my inner child, is more fun than Christmas.

But Journey's End... there are some good bits. More than a few, in fact. There's "Exterminieren!" I love "Exterminieren!" And I like how Davros is done, and Donna's exit, and all that jazz... but, oof. The problems. The botched regeneration, with the handy Doctor. Rose's muddled final goodbye. Doomsday was perfect. She didn't need that. It was fun once. And shunting the Daleks away, towing the Earth home - all too saccharine even for my deeply uncynical tastes. Could've been great, and the Daleks are fun and exciting in a way they don't always get to be, but Journey's End is the only black mark on the entirity of series 4, and for that reason I can't rank it higher. My inner child silently weeps.



5. The Parting of the Ways

This is the Dalek story I've most recently rewatched, and I genuinely did not remember it being that brilliant. Because it's properly fantastic, isn't it? Starts so facetious, but cracking fun regardless, and the Daleks are chilling in a way they never managed in subsequent series. The silent "EX-TER-MIN-ATE" - delicious!

I cannot imagine it aging well for a second. It feels a little out of date now, but hey, why not? Everything's going to age at some point - might as well embrace it! Future generations are going to love the 2005 kitsch. Heck, I already do. And I'm constantly surprised by how well the genre-switch works. By all rights, this should feel like two stories grafted into one, but Russell T Davies is, fortunately, a genius. I might not love it with the same vigour I'd love the later Dalek stories, but hey! This forged the template for the two-part finale. And so confidently. Strode right in there - Doctor Who like I'd never seen it. Like no-one had ever seen it. Great slice of Who, and I'd do well to remember that more often.




4. Victory of the Daleks

Poor Victory of the Daleks. I don't think the Doctor Who fanbase ever recovered. Brave new era, brave new Daleks - and all eyes were on this episode. Churchill, daleks... spitfires in space! And with the publicity, the hype, the eyestalks staring out of every single news-stand in the UK, it was never going to live up to the scrutiny. But that's fine! Despite all the kerfuffle, I'd say there's a lot to love about Victory of the Daleks.

Because I don't care about defusing the bombs with love.  I don't care about the implausibility of scratching up some spacecraft in the space of a couple of hours - they had prototypes, and Bracewell's Dalek technology! And I've never understood what everyone hates about the new paradigm daleks. When I think of this episode, I think of camouflaged Daleks skulking through corridors, I think of the claustrophobia of the mid-war bunkers, I think of Ian McShane's wonderful Winston Churchill, I think of "Would you like some tea," I think of the Doctor bluffing his way onto the Dalek mothership with a Jammie Dodger... and I'm afraid I can't find it in my heart to hate this one.

So don't worry, Victory. Some of us think you're just ace.



3. Army of Ghosts

Over time, I've fallen out of love with series two. What seemed fun at the time has been done better since, and it's the patchiest series the revival's produced. But the peaks, I'll always maintain, are among the show's best moments, and Army of Ghosts is possibly the best finale Russell T Davies ever wrote.

Because 2006 was probably the best time to be a Dalek. Even though they only featured in half of the story, I think of the Daleks before I think of the Cybermen. From the first second they appeared on screen, from that breathtaking cliffhanger, they stomped their authority all over the entire two-parter. It's all anyone could talk about. It's all I could talk about, certainly. I'm usually more of a Cyberman kind of guy, but there was nothing more exciting than watching the Cult of Skaro rise from the sphere and lay waste to the Cybermen's entire army.

Good, simple story, but fantastically told. It's exciting and heartbreaking and has all the right bits in all the right places. Most notably, a Cybermen v. Dalek bitch-fight. Which, for all their superior firepower, I fear the Cult may have found themselves on the losing side of.

"Daaaaaa-leks have no concept of elegance!"
"This is obvious."

Burn.



2. The Pandorica Opens

We're working to a fairly loose definition of "Dalek episode," here, but the Pandorica Opens is an impeccable story. The stone Dalek is just one masterstroke among many - but that doesn't make him (or her, come to think of it!) any less of a masterstroke. On paper, he should just be a cattle-prod, a device to keep up the urgency, keep the characters moving from room to room, but the design, the personality, the never-ending hatred even in the face of the end of all things... oh, he's good, isn't he?

And though this is the second series finale in a row that the Doctor gets exterminated by a Dalek, for some reason it seems to have more impact this time. In the Stolen Earth, the extermination was just plain exciting. There was a momentary gasp, but we moved straight on to the regeneration, and after that it was very hard to care. But this Dalek? He gives us the breezy "twelve minutes to live" speech, he gives us the Doctor, agonised, dying in the Pandorica, he gives us "geronimo," he gives Auton-Rory a chance to redeem himself, and most importantly, he gives us that chat between Amy and the Doctor. Wait, no, not THAT one, the other one - where the Doctor's shackled in, and Matt and Karen are just sat there, acting their hearts out. The Daleks are so often engines of hate that it's easy to overlook that they can sometimes, just occasionally, be engines of love.


1. Dalek

I'm going to level with you. I didn't like Dalek the first time I saw it. And you know? I think I stand by that initial reaction. It was my first time meeting a Dalek, and I was bracing myself for this terrifying monstrosity. This eldritch creature of pure, visceral hatred. And forty-five minutes later, the credits rolled and I'd watched... the Dalek who learned to love! It was 2005, I was fifteen, how rubbish was that? I wanted explosions!

But in retrospect, it all locks in. Now that I know what the Daleks are about, now that I know them, and I understand the enormity of the story, it's all locked in. Context helped so much - Chris Eccleston's (superb!) speech didn't mean much to me when the Dalek was a stranger, but now that I know them I can see the 900 years of mutual loathing looming over the characters' heads, and it's truly, really astonishing. I hate that the first episode is their best, I hate being that hipster who insists that the early stuff's where it's really at... but hey! This is the one to beat.

So, from one 2012 episode to another... let's see if this is the time!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 12:20:24 PM by robwebster »

Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1556 on: September 01, 2012, 11:41:32 AM »
Awesome start to the list! I just have to wait for a download. :caffeine:

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1557 on: September 01, 2012, 12:20:42 PM »
DONE!

7:20 precisely! Some rubbish blurbs - bit hasty, a lot of that, not much time to think, but there we go.

And now the computer goes off. Happy watching, kids!

Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1558 on: September 01, 2012, 12:33:13 PM »
I might agree with you that Dalek is the best Dalek episode. It's really the only episode where I was afraid of the Dalek. I thought it was actually dangerous and unstoppable. Every other episode I thought that they weren't really shown to be that much of a threat.

Offline E.S.

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1559 on: September 01, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »
Oh, a Who thread here too.

Just watched Asylum, and I won't spoil anything, but.. Whoa!  :metal

Offline Sigz

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1560 on: September 01, 2012, 05:59:55 PM »
That was excellent  :laugh:
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1561 on: September 01, 2012, 07:14:27 PM »
I didn't even process the "holy fuck!!" moment. My brother noticed first. "Is that...?"

A full five or six seconds later, "...holy fuck!!!"

Although, it feels ridiculous to call it "the" holy fuck moment, given the sheer number of them. Putting Demon's Run to one side, and without giving anything away whatsoever... a Dalek!!

Offline Sigz

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1562 on: September 01, 2012, 07:32:39 PM »
******FUTURE SEASON 7 SPOILERS*******

I'm really curious how the new companion is gonna be tied in now.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1563 on: September 01, 2012, 07:55:37 PM »
MORE HUGE, HUGE SPOILERS FOR ASYLUM FOLLOW. DON'T BOTHER READING. STOP. STOP NOW. I've made the font illegible, but I still do not want anyone getting this wrong. If you keep reading, you're doing it to yourself.

******FUTURE SEASON 7 SPOILERS*******

I'm really curious how the new companion is gonna be tied in now.
Response in unreadably tiny letters to the right --

Well, this is clearly both of their first meetings! Barring the possibility of mind-fiddling and the Doctor lying, both of which would be plenty foreshadowed... but she's dead! And she's a Dalek!

The new companion is a Dalek. What the fuck. How is that a sentence!?!

Can we all agree, right now, that this is the weirdest episode of Doctor Who to date? Bloody love it, though.

Offline Sigz

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1564 on: September 01, 2012, 10:15:59 PM »
YAY MORE TINY TEXT

Yeah, I'm just trying to sort it all out. I mean, it's clearly her - her name is Oswin, they said the companion's name is Clara Oswin. But how is she gonna get from Dalek/dead -> human? I mean, there's no way The Doctor's gonna go touring around with a Dalek (at least, I hope not, cause that voice for 7+ episodes would slay me).

My first thought was that she survives the blast and-being a genius-works out some way to get back into human form. That doesn't seem very likely though. An interesting thought I heard was that The Doctor ends up saving her ship before she crashes, thus saving her and also returning The Daleks to their normal Doctor-hating selves. I like that theory in some ways, but it still doesn't feel right. Neither one feels very christmas-y either, which is something to be considered.

Basically, I have no idea what to expect, but I'm really excited.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 10:23:25 PM by Sigz »
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Offline Heretic

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1565 on: September 01, 2012, 11:24:28 PM »
SPOILERS

From the way she spoke and the subtle hints she gave (calling The Doctor a 'clever boy' despite him not doing anything that clever in the episode and taking the time to mention "she didn't know him" in an almost ironic way) I'm thinking it could be another River Song kind of deal, having her in the Dalek-form already having met the Doctor in her past, but the Doctor not having met her yet. I'm not sure though. Hoping it's something different and more climatic.

In either case, awesome episode, interested in seeing where the "Doctor who?" storyline goes from here.

Offline E.S.

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1566 on: September 02, 2012, 02:08:47 AM »
Certainly lots of surprises in this one. I spent 50 minutes going "What the.. but how... oh right.. no wait.. Whaaaat?? Brilliant!
What a way to start the new series.

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1567 on: September 02, 2012, 04:44:31 AM »
SPOILERS I GUESS

From some of the shots, as far as I can tell she's still in completely human form inside the dalek frame, right? They turned her into a dalek mentally and put her in the frame - so, if she can get her mind back and climb out, there's no reason she couldn't be human again. Either way, I'm excited to find out!

In general, that was an awesome episode, definitely the best dalek one since Dalek, maybe even better, hard to decide at this stage.

Eggs!

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Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1568 on: September 02, 2012, 05:04:32 PM »
Should I still be using small text? Spoilers below.

Skaro was destroyed. How was he on there?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 06:50:54 PM by Implode »

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1569 on: September 02, 2012, 06:21:56 PM »
I think we're far enough past the posts with big, fat spoiler warnings that nobody's gonna be reading this - but I do like to be cautious.

Nevertheless, Skaro burned. Didn't necessarily blow up! And that's not even a spoiler, come to think of it, because I've said nothing we haven't known since series 2. q:

Offline Implode

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1570 on: September 02, 2012, 06:55:22 PM »
I guess so.

I guess the episode just didn't do a lot for me. I'm trying to figure out why.

Offline Heretic

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1571 on: September 07, 2012, 08:53:49 PM »
Tomorrow! :biggrin:

Offline robwebster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1572 on: September 08, 2012, 06:47:44 AM »
Dinosaurs! On a spaceship!!

Featuring, among others, David Bradley, Rupert Graves, Mark Williams, David Mitchell and Robert Webb. That's a hell of a cast. The latter of whom has a bloody superb taste in names, I might add.

It's going to be excellent.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1573 on: September 08, 2012, 07:29:42 AM »
The only thing I didn't like about Asylum was

Rory and Amy's problems.  Amy "gave Rory up" because she's infertile now, its this thing both of them are sad about...so they're angry and pissy at each other in the time between Pond Life 5 and Asylum?  Their attitude at the beginning is a little hard to swallow.  Plus it was handled way too quickly, I guess Steven Moffat seems to love cramming as much in as possible into episodes now.  Which is great when he has space to do it!

As for the Oswin moment, I'm thinking its either a River Song deal or the new companion is an ancestor of Oswin, the way that Gwen Cooper is hinted to be a descendant of the girl from The Unquiet Dead, Amy loves Romans (she was in Fires of Pompeii), and Martha and her cousin look exactly alike.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #1574 on: September 08, 2012, 07:40:07 AM »
I'm a time traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologists.

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