Doctor Who

[tri.ad]

Some kind of a prequel/teaser to the next episode:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00jthfd

[skydivingninja]

Matt Smith is such a good actor.  WHY CAN'T IT BE THE 27TH ALREADY?

[tri.ad]

Totally agreed on the first part. I don't know if it was all Matt or with a little help from cosmetics/CGI, but in this short clip, he really had the look of an old man who lived a life filled with loneliness, with a slight hint of desperation, a big hint of powerlessness about the whole situation and fear for what might be coming. Just how it is supposed to be for someone playing the Doctor, being old and youthful at the same time. I absolutely love it.

Oh yeah, the second part is also very valid.

[adameastment]

Well, I'm just watching "The Doctor's Daughter" and I found an interesting tidbit on Wikipedia. For everyone who thinks that Jenny won't make a return, her "coming back to life" was in fact Steven Moffat's idea!

Russell T Davies has stated that this episode "does exactly as it says on the tin".[5] Jenny's death was originally to take place in what Davies called "a Generic Spaceship Room", but producer Phil Collinson suggested filming the scene at Plantasia botanical garden in Swansea.[6][7] Having Jenny come back to life at the end of the episode was Steven Moffat's idea

[tri.ad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110817_01/Lets_Kill_Hitler

Included are two teasers for Let's Kill Hitler.

[robwebster]

Note that he calls the girl in the first one "Mels."

As in, short for Melody.

[tri.ad]

Note that he calls the girl in the first one "Mels."

As in, short for Melody.

Good catch! If you're right, it makes me wonder this: How many regenerations - if they are possible, of which I'm pretty sure - is Melody/River in when we finally see her in her best-known appearance? It must have taken place at least twice...

And, of course, closer to the plot: How did they get Melody back? Should be an interesting story, to say the least.

[robwebster]

Well, the girl in Let's Kill Hitler looks black from what I can tell, which Alex Kingston isn't, so it must be at least her third incarnation. It'd also finally confirm that Time Lords can change skin-colour when they regenerate, which would - hopefully - shut up that slightly iffy faction of the fandom who keep on whining about how the Doctor should always be white.

This, if I'm right, ties quite nicely into my theory that Melody Pond's going to be the companion, next series. Arthur's confirmed that Rory's going to be back in some capacity next year now, too, so the Ponds can be the family-at-home occasional guest characters, a la Wilf Mott or Mickey Smith, and we finally get to see a significant chunk of the River/Doctor travels they keep hinting at.

[robwebster]

Oh Torchwood. You sinister fucker.

[ariich]

Well, the girl in Let's Kill Hitler looks black from what I can tell, which Alex Kingston isn't, so it must be at least her third incarnation. It'd also finally confirm that Time Lords can change skin-colour when they regenerate, which would - hopefully - shut up that slightly iffy faction of the fandom who keep on whining about how the Doctor should always be white.

This, if I'm right, ties quite nicely into my theory that Melody Pond's going to be the companion, next series. Arthur's confirmed that Rory's going to be back in some capacity next year now, too, so the Ponds can be the family-at-home occasional guest characters, a la Wilf Mott or Mickey Smith, and we finally get to see a significant chunk of the River/Doctor travels they keep hinting at.

This would actually be brilliant. The more we see her, the more I like River as a character and Alex Kingston as an actress!

[tri.ad]

I think Alex Kingston is basically the perfect fit for River Song and has been since Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead, at least I couldn't imagine anyone else playing this role so well. Melody/River becoming a definite companion in Series 7 would be very cool indeed; we'd most likely get some hilarious River-Doctor dialogues/arguments at least.

I also have to say that I'm quite curious about the Teselectas. The preview delivered a nice first impression Moffat-style, and I hope that they get some presence in the next episode.

[adameastment]

Erm... On the subject of Torchwood, has anyone considered nanogenes? They were a massive part of The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances... Any chance they would be the cause of this? Or is it more of a person causing the damage?

[robwebster]

Oh, I like nanogenes. That would totally work.

As the Doctor says in that episode - of the nanogenes no less - "What's life? Just nature's way of keeping meat fresh."

(That quote's been in my head for three weeks or so with regards to Miracle Day, incidentally, but I've not been able to place where it came from until just now. Yes! I could definitely see them using that as the method.)

[adameastment]

Oh, I like nanogenes. That would totally work.

As the Doctor says in that episode - of the nanogenes no less - "What's life? Just nature's way of keeping meat fresh."

(And that quote's been in my head for three weeks or so with regards to Miracle Day, but I've not been able to place it until just now.)

The only flaw is that at the end of The Empty Child double is that they healed them all.. I mean, in the Who/Torchwood-iverse, the nanogenes could be used in combination with the "morphic field". However, how would this have effected Jack in the way it did? Small flaw there

[robwebster]

True! Bollocks. Very true. And Rex wouldn't have a gaping wound in his chest.

Still. "Nature's way of keeping meat fresh." I'm sticking with that.

[adameastment]

True! Bollocks. Very true. And Rex wouldn't have a gaping wound in his chest.

Still. "Nature's way of keeping meat fresh." I'm sticking with that.

Very true, it doesn't mean that the nanogenes aren't programmed to keep the blood oxygenated or something. Which is why burning the bodies is the way to kill them, burn everything including the blood?

EDIT:

I've been thinking, I think nano-genes are a very good guess actually! Why? Well, nano-genes have to be programmed right? We found that out in The Empty Child, meaning that someone has programmed them to keep humans alive (not heal them), maybe through keeping blood and muscles and bits of the body oxygenated, meaning that they'd survive almost anything, and yet still be in so much pain. This pattern could be transferred through a morphic field of sorts (like what keeps getting mentioned), and these nanogenes are getting into everyone and staying put.

They also need to know who to target, I'm assuming it's all humans which would mean this trait would carry to Jack. I don't think Jack is mortal, I think he's come under the same morphic field as the rest of the humans, and the nano-genes have been transferred into him. Giving him what looks like mortal traits, but essentially still immortal (since making a anti serum to a poison? Really?). I think the real reason they want Jack is to simply burn him alive, he's the bedrock for the whole of Torchwood. Without him, they don't have the knowledge of Jack, meaning they would basically disband...

I might have overthought this though

[Sigz]

WAIT A MINUTE EVERYONE 

Doctor Who is back this Saturday!?

[tri.ad]

WAIT A MINUTE EVERYONE 

Doctor Who is back this Saturday!?

*in the Tenth Doctor's voice* Oh yes!

[ariich]

[robwebster]

Dear me. That was slow.

Just felt gratuitous. Look at how quickly they establish the characters - no, the universe - in Everything Changes. Rose. The Eleventh Hour. Smith and Jones. Heck, episode one of this very series. Effortless. Deft. They can conjure up entire universes in minutes. This is the polar opposite.

There were lots of nice character moments. Angelo has been given a fair bit of depth. It was nice to see alien activity. And the "devil" bit was an ingenius concept, and absolutely harrowing. It felt very, uncomfortably real.

But that's where the word "gratuitous" comes in. Look at episode 5. The bit where Vera is burnt alive. Completely fearsome concept, but the image is conjured up by what? A few bunsen burners and some stock footage of some flame. Absolutely chilling, but told very quickly. The immortality-montage here, however, overstayed its welcome by what felt like a good minute or so.

Two people doing not-very-much, very slowly, and putting the overarching plot on hold for another week. They could've dripped this backstory over the last six episodes and it wouldn't have felt like such a bolt from the blue. Like such an unwelcome interruption.

First time since From Out of the Rain that I've not enjoyed a Torchwood. They were doing so well!

Really hope everyone else loved it, though. There was plenty of interesting stuff there. It was just... so... slow..!

[ariich]

You seem to hate slower episodes. I haven't seen it yet, but this series (as with Children of Earth) is one big story arc, so I expect there to be slower episodes. It can't be non-stop action-packed madness for 10 solid episodes.

[robwebster]

You seem to hate slower episodes. I haven't seen it yet, but this series (as with Children of Earth) is one big story arc, so I expect there to be slower episodes. It can't be non-stop action-packed madness for 10 solid episodes.

Oh, agreed! I think the balance has been great up to this point, though, but this episode was a complete diversion. I'm sure it'll be significant, but it just felt really flabby to me. It's a completely different story. Almost entirely separate to everything we've seen so far, and I'm so busy caring about the characters that I've spent the last six weeks caring for that I did not appreciate being taken away from them, and having events put on hold for a week.

Don't take my word for it, though. Give it a go! And enjoy it, preferably. The more people who enjoy it, the better. It's been an absolutely cracking series, this latest ep aside, and anyone who's got their count running at seven-for-seven is someone I envy. A lot of people are absolutely loving it so please don't let my comments colour it.

[ariich]

Indeed, I'll watch it over the weekend! Have to say, I can't even remember specific episodes. Shows like DW (and the first 2 series of Torchwood) have each story somewhat separate so they're more distinguishable, whereas these days this is more like 24 or something like that, where it's basically one massive story cut into chunks. Fair play if you can remember individual episodes in enough detail to have opinions on them, but I don't appear to have that ability!

[robwebster]

Ha - well, I remember them in broad strokes! Ep 1 was the intro episode, watched it a couple of times so wahey, ep 2 was the fun one on a plane with the weird-looking assassin, ep 3 I can't quite remember but I think it had a lot to do with Ozzy 'n' Jill. Might've introduced Phicorp? Ep 4 was the one where they infiltrated the warehouse as the Dead is Dead lady got crushed, eps 5&6 were the overflow camp two-parter, and episode 7 I just watched.

It's cloudy! But I remember roughly how each made me feel, and this is the first time since From Out of the Rain in 2008 that I've truly been disappointed by an episode of one of my favourite TV shows. :p

And then I went online and discovered that half of the viewers think it's the best episode of the series! Shows what I know. Don't listen to me, I'm a right muppet.

[adameastment]

Dear me. That was slow.

Just felt gratuitous. Look at how quickly they establish the characters - no, the universe - in Everything Changes. Rose. The Eleventh Hour. Smith and Jones. Heck, episode one of this very series. Effortless. Deft. They can conjure up entire universes in minutes. This is the polar opposite.

There were lots of nice character moments. Angelo has been given a fair bit of depth. It was nice to see alien activity. And the "devil" bit was an ingenius concept, and absolutely harrowing. It felt very, uncomfortably real.

But that's where the word "gratuitous" comes in. Look at episode 5. The bit where Vera is burnt alive. Completely fearsome concept, but the image is conjured up by what? A few bunsen burners and some stock footage of some flame. Absolutely chilling, but told very quickly. The immortality-montage here, however, overstayed its welcome by what felt like a good minute or so.

Two people doing not-very-much, very slowly, and putting the overarching plot on hold for another week. They could've dripped this backstory over the last six episodes and it wouldn't have felt like such a bolt from the blue. Like such an unwelcome interruption.

First time since From Out of the Rain that I've not enjoyed a Torchwood. They were doing so well!

Really hope everyone else loved it, though. There was plenty of interesting stuff there. It was just... so... slow..!

I'm going to disagree with you there, I think it was a welcome change personally. I didn't enjoy the man on man scenes (doesn't float my boat...), but it reminded me of the older series' where it took a completely different plot line on. I think it was needed to get the gasp at the end, where she tells him that Angelo is still alive and kicking.

Now to suss how it all ends - the blood has got to have something to do with it! How did Angelo stay alive for so long? So many questions arose from that episode (also, youtube one of the trailers for the next episode you see Angelo's hand, I also think he actually dies although, I can't be sure.

Also, did you listen carefully? At the start of the episode Jack says to Gwen something about "Reseaching the blessing". Angelo called Jack the blessing coincidence? I don't think so, RTD enjoys that kind of thing within a series putting small hints (ie. Bad Wolf, Torchwood from DW). Even though it wasn't written by RTD I think there might be something in that.

It kinda sets up the scene for the next few episodes, 8 seems to be figuring what the Miracle is how it happened, how it can be stopped. 9 + 10 will be how it can be stopped. Lots of action!

[Bonham]

Dear me. That was slow.

Just felt gratuitous. Look at how quickly they establish the characters - no, the universe - in Everything Changes. Rose. The Eleventh Hour. Smith and Jones. Heck, episode one of this very series. Effortless. Deft. They can conjure up entire universes in minutes. This is the polar opposite.

There were lots of nice character moments. Angelo has been given a fair bit of depth. It was nice to see alien activity. And the "devil" bit was an ingenius concept, and absolutely harrowing. It felt very, uncomfortably real.

But that's where the word "gratuitous" comes in. Look at episode 5. The bit where Vera is burnt alive. Completely fearsome concept, but the image is conjured up by what? A few bunsen burners and some stock footage of some flame. Absolutely chilling, but told very quickly. The immortality-montage here, however, overstayed its welcome by what felt like a good minute or so.

Two people doing not-very-much, very slowly, and putting the overarching plot on hold for another week. They could've dripped this backstory over the last six episodes and it wouldn't have felt like such a bolt from the blue. Like such an unwelcome interruption.

First time since From Out of the Rain that I've not enjoyed a Torchwood. They were doing so well!

Really hope everyone else loved it, though. There was plenty of interesting stuff there. It was just... so... slow..!

I'm going to disagree with you there, I think it was a welcome change personally. I didn't enjoy the man on man scenes (doesn't float my boat...), but it reminded me of the older series' where it took a completely different plot line on. I think it was needed to get the gasp at the end, where she tells him that Angelo is still alive and kicking.

Now to suss how it all ends - the blood has got to have something to do with it! How did Angelo stay alive for so long? So many questions arose from that episode (also, youtube one of the trailers for the next episode you see Angelo's hand, I also think he actually dies although, I can't be sure.

Also, did you listen carefully? At the start of the episode Jack says to Gwen something about "Reseaching the blessing". Angelo called Jack the blessing coincidence? I don't think so, RTD enjoys that kind of thing within a series putting small hints (ie. Bad Wolf, Torchwood from DW). Even though it wasn't written by RTD I think there might be something in that.

It kinda sets up the scene for the next few episodes, 8 seems to be figuring what the Miracle is how it happened, how it can be stopped. 9 + 10 will be how it can be stopped. Lots of action!

I have to agree with adam here; I was absolutely bored to tears during episode six. Despite all the action, it felt like the plot and character development completely halted. Things had been slowing down since quite a while before as well: through most of the previous episodes, we've been given next to nothing about the force behind the Miracle, treated instead to the myriad human implications (and inevitabilities) that arose from the situation. From a philosophical standpoint it's fascinating (I've been thinking all through work for the past few days about what humanity would really do if we all became immortal), but I'm not too sure it makes for good TV.

This episode was a welcome change of pace; very little "action," but finally we get some progression towards the end of the story. I'm really looking forward to ep. 8

Also, the car scene was one of the best moments from this series so far (from any series, in my opinion).

tl;dr: You should watch it again. It was good.

[robwebster]

Oh, I'm certain it's necessary backstory. They mentioned The Blessing in the last episode, too. I think the Ghostbuster said it over dinner. But it was so sluggishly established!

I can't think of a single scene that didn't go on for at least a good minute longer than it had to. A couple of the cutaways, say. There's nothing long with long scenes, but Quarantino this wasn't. They weren't gripping long scenes. It was like watching life unfold at its own pace - which, I guess, is what I'm not keen on. A story with this little to say could've been told within fifteen minutes. Or, if you want to keep all the character development (and I wouldn't blame you if you did!), woven throughout the series. If ep six was boring, how much better would it have been had another mystery been coming to a climax? Lots of disparate glimpses of 1927 and 1928 New York, stripped throughout the series.

I don't have any problem with the story itself, or the characters, or the concepts behind them - perfectly interesting, all of them - but it was told in a way that I found frustrating beyond belief.

I will rewatch it, though. Not immediately, but at some point this week. And I am genuinely, sincerely, very glad you both enjoyed it. Feels good to be in a minority on this one!

[tri.ad]

Tomorrow...

[robwebster]

I KNOW! 

[Bonham]

I love that I get to watch Doctor Who before my plane leaves to Israel. This weekend is going to be epic

[adameastment]

Tomorrow...

Today..

[tri.ad]

Oh Steven, you brilliant bastard.

I'll watch this episode again later; for now, I'll just say that this episode was absolutely awesome and definitely worth the wait.

[adameastment]

Well... That was brilliant!

It's kind of set up the whole Library now

[alirocker08]

I couldn't help but laugh at the joke River Song made to all the soldiers getting ready to fire at her :')

And I had to stop myself from crying in case my siblings laughed at me >.<

[robwebster]

Fucking hell, that was one of the single weirdest episodes of Doctor Who. Loved it.

Alex Kingston gets a regeneration scene!!