Author Topic: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread  (Read 539507 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #490 on: May 27, 2011, 12:43:07 PM »
I am sorry, but I can't get on board with the last song being weak.  I think it is tremendous, and I'd probably say it is one of the best single songs of Neal's solo career.

Also, got the CDs and Making of DVD in the mail yesterday (yes, I had been listening to a leak for the week prior to that ;) :P), and the Making of DVD was great.  You really get a glimpse of how well the three of them work together, and it really showed how important George and Portnoy are when finalizing the album as a whole.  

Quick sidenote: I was shocked at how little Portnoy was.  I mean, I knew he had worked out a ton and lose weight while on tour with AS last year, but he looks really small behind his drum kit now.  And that wasn't even his biggest one! :lol :lol

Anyway, "Time Changer" is growing on me, but I am not big on the "Time changer, time change, change the time..." chorus, and the big vocal section with the Spock's Beard guys is probably my least favorite part of the whole album.  But I was never as crazy about those vocal-type sections when he was in Spock's, as they have the tendency to sound a bit too corny more often than not, especially when they starting saying lines really fast and with a lot of words, like at the very end of the one in "Time Changer."  But that is a very small part of even that song, so I can deal with it. :biggrin:

Finally, I do agree that a few of the reprises from T1 did feel unnecessary and like window-dressing more than anything else, but like I said before, reprises as a whole from T1 are pretty limited, so I am fine with all of it, even the ones that seem a bit "thrown in for the hell of it."

Offline unklejman

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #491 on: May 27, 2011, 12:43:51 PM »
. The rest of the song has some awesome parts with the sweep picking on the guitar (is that Neal???)

It is in fact, Paul Bielatowicz.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #492 on: May 27, 2011, 12:48:00 PM »
darkshade, I am glad you mentioned the fadeout at the end, as I meant to say something about that in my last post, but I said so much else, I forgot about it. :lol  Anyway, yes, I love that fadeout.  Like you said, not everything has to end with that huge ending.  Plus, that main melody is so awesome, it is like you never want to end, so with it fading out for 40 or 50 seconds, it leaves you with the impression that it is still going on and on and on, even though it faded away from us.  Very effective use of the fadeout! :tup :tup

And while that sweep picking part was not Neal, I do think his electric guitar playing has improved tremendously.  So has his tone.  The lack of many memorable electric guitar parts of T1 (aside from a few nice solos, including Livgren's) has always stood out as something it was really missing, but I no longer get the impression that his electric guitar playing is of lower quality than the bass, drums, keys or acoustic guitars.  :coolio

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #493 on: May 27, 2011, 12:53:19 PM »
Quick sidenote: I was shocked at how little Portnoy was.  I mean, I knew he had worked out a ton and lose weight while on tour with AS last year, but he looks really small behind his drum kit now.  And that wasn't even his biggest one! :lol :lol

He's also very short.  I was surprised when I met him and stood right next to him.  So with losing weight and getting leaner, yeah, he's going to look tiny.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #494 on: May 27, 2011, 01:11:10 PM »
darkshade, I am glad you mentioned the fadeout at the end, as I meant to say something about that in my last post, but I said so much else, I forgot about it. :lol  Anyway, yes, I love that fadeout.  Like you said, not everything has to end with that huge ending.  Plus, that main melody is so awesome, it is like you never want to end, so with it fading out for 40 or 50 seconds, it leaves you with the impression that it is still going on and on and on, even though it faded away from us.  Very effective use of the fadeout! :tup :tup

And while that sweep picking part was not Neal, I do think his electric guitar playing has improved tremendously.  So has his tone.  The lack of many memorable electric guitar parts of T1 (aside from a few nice solos, including Livgren's) has always stood out as something it was really missing, but I no longer get the impression that his electric guitar playing is of lower quality than the bass, drums, keys or acoustic guitars.  :coolio

Yea the fadeout works, and thankfully fades out very slowly. I also agree Neal's guitar work has gotten better over the years. I just think he plays better solos on the keys and piano.

BTW, that Spock's Beard vocal section inspired me to listen to some Gentle Giant recently  :)

Offline Ħ

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #495 on: May 27, 2011, 02:11:05 PM »
Anyway, "Time Changer" is growing on me, but I am not big on the "Time changer, time change, change the time..." chorus, and the big vocal section with the Spock's Beard guys is probably my least favorite part of the whole album.
This times a million.  That chorus just sounds SO bad.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #496 on: May 27, 2011, 02:23:55 PM »
Quick sidenote: I was shocked at how little Portnoy was.  I mean, I knew he had worked out a ton and lose weight while on tour with AS last year, but he looks really small behind his drum kit now.  And that wasn't even his biggest one! :lol :lol

He's also very short.  I was surprised when I met him and stood right next to him.  So with losing weight and getting leaner, yeah, he's going to look tiny.

well, at least he ain't the shortest

Offline jonny108

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #497 on: May 27, 2011, 04:59:21 PM »
 :rollin :rollin :rollin Poor Pete

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #498 on: May 27, 2011, 05:07:53 PM »
So you know what's surprised me most when I got my package in and I looked in the booklet? "Seeds Of Gold" doesn't have movements! It's all one long song without subsections/movements dividing the various lyrical/musical sections, which I feel like there are :
0:00-4:35 : Intro/Overture (Instrumental)
4:35-7:10 : "Look Away"
7:10-9:48 : "City Of Light"
9:48-12:46 : "Love You More"
12:46-15:11 : (Instrumental)
15:11-22:19 :  "Homecoming"
22:19-25:59 : "Look Away (Reprise)/Finale"

Lyrically, there are five chunks/sections, and you could separate the "Homecoming" section from the epic Steve Morse solo at 19:34, so a total of 8 sections, lyrically and musically.

Either way, I think it's a nice change-of-pace for Neal to do a non-divided epic (much like DT did with "The Count Of Tuscany", which I also expected to have sections), as he has done SO MANY(ROADS) over the last 18 years...

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Offline Tick

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #499 on: May 27, 2011, 05:43:33 PM »
Anyway, "Time Changer" is growing on me, but I am not big on the "Time changer, time change, change the time..." chorus, and the big vocal section with the Spock's Beard guys is probably my least favorite part of the whole album.
This times a million.  That chorus just sounds SO bad.
It was cool hearing the band do it live.
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Offline ronnibran

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #500 on: May 27, 2011, 05:47:27 PM »
My favorite part of the album is easily the last half of the last song on disc one.  I love when things go crazy and then it goes into the Mercy Street reprise.  Very hard to sing along to without getting choked up!

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #501 on: May 27, 2011, 10:53:24 PM »
Definitely!  That song came on when I was doing cardio earlier today, and when it got to the reprise late in the song ("In the house of the rising sun..."), I literally got goosebumps all over both arms.  Neal is great at writing goosebump-worthy moments like that. :hat

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #502 on: May 28, 2011, 12:36:11 PM »
So, now that Neal has released six solo prog album since leaving Spock's Beard, which six album run do you like better?   

Comparing the studio albums one-by-one...

The Light vs Testimony: Gotta go with Spock's Beard here.  Testimony has a lot of really good songs, but also has plenty of unnecessary padding.  The Light is nearly perfect - I think "On the Edge" should have been earlier in the track order, as putting a short song at the end after three long pieces makes it seem like an afterthought that they threw on there.  Plus, it has one of the best epics Neal has ever written, that being the title track.

Beware of Darkness vs One: This is tough.  Both of these are really good, but fall a hair or two short of being great.  Even with the bonus songs, I think I'll give Beware of Darkness the very slight edge, as it does have "The Doorway," also one of Neal's best epics (or mini-epics, based on your definition of epic ;)).

The Kindness of Strangers vs ?: There is no "question" which one of these is better, pun intended. :P  TKOS is good, but ? is terrific.

Day for Night vs Sola Scriptura: Both are somewhat weak by Neal's standards, but for completely different reasons.  DFN has a handful of short, forgettable songs, while not really having anything truly great (although I dig "Crack the Big Sky" and "The Gypsy" a lot).  SS, meanwhile, has two really long epics, both of which have some great parts, but both of which also sound a bit too meandering and long.  But SS's highs are higher than DFN's, so I'll give solo Neal the edge here.

V vs Lifeline : This is a beatdown of Super Bowls in the late 80s/early 90s proportions.  Lifeline is easily the weakest of the 12 here, while V is possibly the best.  No contest.

Snow vs Testimony 2: It almost seems unfair to do this now, since T2 is so new, but even though we all sometimes have the tendency to say that something new that we are loving is better than we end up realizing it is, I still gotta give the slight edge to SB.  I still love almost all of Snow, but if T2 ages as well as it, it could someday surpass it....

So, it looks like SB won 4-2.  And if I had to put the 12 in order of preference, they'd probably look like this:

1. V
2. Snow
3. ?
4. Testimony 2
5. The Light
6. Beware of Darkness
7. One
8. The Kindness of Strangers
9. Testimony
10. Sola Scriptura
11. Day for Night
12. Lifeline

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #503 on: May 28, 2011, 12:58:59 PM »
I don't know all the SB. Really only know V and Snow.

I like Lifeline A LOT. I can see why people don't like it (as much), but I dunno, I think it is wonderful. I would give the edge to Lifeline.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #504 on: May 28, 2011, 07:59:16 PM »
I don't know all the SB. Really only know V and Snow.

You should change that.  But be forewarned that the early albums, from a sound quality standpoint, don't sound nearly as good as almost everything Neal has released since 2000. 

Offline Ħ

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #505 on: May 28, 2011, 08:10:19 PM »
Hey does anybody else think that The Truth Will Set You Free sounds VERY similar to The Water by SB?  I actually think there are a couple references.  But the biggest one is way Neal sings "just stop this haunting in my brain.....brain.....braiaiaiain", which is kinda similar to some of the phrases in the FU section.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #506 on: May 28, 2011, 08:26:18 PM »
The FU section?
space cadet, pull out.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #507 on: May 28, 2011, 08:27:52 PM »
The FU section?
From The Water.

Or if you're asking where in The Water, the middle part that starts with "you gave me this home, then you left me alone".
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #508 on: May 28, 2011, 09:40:19 PM »
I haven't noticed any "The Water" references in "The Truth..." yet, but I just may not have picked on them yet.  The bass intro to "Nighttime Collectors" is quite obviously a nod to "The Water," and he throws in some organ chords in the middle of "Time Changer" that are also from a Spock's song, but I can't place which one right now (it is probably really obvious, too :lol).

 

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #509 on: May 28, 2011, 09:54:16 PM »
I don't know all the SB. Really only know V and Snow.

You should change that.  But be forewarned that the early albums, from a sound quality standpoint, don't sound nearly as good as almost everything Neal has released since 2000. 

I tried to years ago, but the other albums didn't do much for me. I'll try again at another time. I think I remember part of it being the sound quality, yeah. But even the best SB albums don't rank above any of his solo prog stuff. :lol

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #510 on: May 28, 2011, 10:22:20 PM »
he throws in some organ chords in the middle of "Time Changer" that are also from a Spock's song, but I can't place which one right now (it is probably really obvious, too :lol).

"The Water"

Ironically, I'm listening to it right now on The Beard Is Out There.

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Offline ytserush

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #511 on: May 28, 2011, 11:25:17 PM »
I'll take the Spock's Beard album in every case but Snow.

I got the book, DVD (both autographed with obligatory bible quote) and the CD on Tuesday and read the book the first night (kind of wished he'd have gone into more detail as I didn't learn much, but it was his book...still entertaining anyway) watched the DVD the second night, listened to the bonus disc the third night and listened to the CD last night.

Way too early for me to form any meaningful opinion other than to say some of it sounds a little forced to me (kind of like Snow) and where Testimony 1 has an an outpouring of relief and openess, this one seems a little more controlled. A couple of listens aren't nearly enough....

Offline darkshade

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #512 on: May 28, 2011, 11:55:17 PM »
^ Give it time.

Actually listening to The Light album right now, on headphones! The sound quality is clear and you hear everything, but doesn't have that surround sound feel. The compositions MORE than make up for it though, one of NM and SB's best.

Speaking of which, I have all 6 of Neal's solo prog albums, all 3 TA albums, and all SB albums except Beware of Darkness, Day For Night, and Snow; which one should I get next?

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #513 on: May 29, 2011, 07:32:00 AM »
Get Snow, darkshade. Great album!

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #514 on: May 29, 2011, 08:38:32 AM »
Yeah, Snow is a must-get, for any Neal and/or SB fan.

Actually listening to The Light album right now, on headphones! The sound quality is clear and you hear everything, but doesn't have that surround sound feel. The compositions MORE than make up for it though, one of NM and SB's best.


Despite sounding pretty raw, the debut sound very organic and lush.  Definitely the best sounding of the first four.  The Kindness of Strangers is probably the worst of the bunch in that regard, as it just sounds noisy at times, especially during the most rocking parts. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #515 on: May 30, 2011, 10:13:11 AM »
The Light vs Testimony: Gotta go with Spock's Beard here.  Testimony has a lot of really good songs, but also has plenty of unnecessary padding.  The Light is nearly perfect - I think "On the Edge" should have been earlier in the track order, as putting a short song at the end after three long pieces makes it seem like an afterthought that they threw on there.  Plus, it has one of the best epics Neal has ever written, that being the title track.

Interesting observations.  Regarding the "extra padding" on Testimony, I sort of feel that way, but feel a bit conflicted about it.  I'll make a couple of different analogies to explain what I mean:

The Shattered Fortress analogy:  For the most part, I love TSF.  But one thing that has bugged me since the biggining with that song is that there are a few parts (the "take all of me" and low-voice-Repentence-guy reprises, for example) that almost feel so unnecessary and gratuitous as to drag the song down.  HOWEVER, given what Portnoy was trying to convey with the song and the suite as a whole, they are lyrically essential.  So, really, for what the song and the suite as a whole are trying to accomplish, they need to be there despite giving off a very obvious "unnecessary" vibe.  Yeah, there's an argument that, as an artist, it was incumbent on MP to figure out a way to incorporate those necessary ideas in a way that didn't give off that vibe.  But he apparently felt that what he did worked, so I guess that pretty much ends it.  Kinda the same with Testimony.

The Lord of the Rings analogy:  To grossly oversimplify the trilogy, it is a story about a bunch of guys just going on a long, exhausting quest.  I've heard arguments over the years that Tolkien wouldn't have lost anything and actually would have gained quite a bit by being more concise in areas.  But the sheer length of the story actually works as a literary device in and of itself.  It is a long, arduous, life-changing journey, and one where the sheer length and burden of the journey in and of themselves are key agents in the changes that occur in some of the characters.  The sheer length of the narrative serves to impart those emotions on the reader.  In a way, I feel as thought Neal is doing the same thing with his story.  Yes, he could have been more concise, both lyrically and musically.  Or he could have been a bit more varied and not reused so many themes.  But I think it somehow all works in taking the listener on a journey that is meant to evoke a lot of particular emotions in very particular ways that it would be hard (and perhaps impossible) to evoke if he had done it differently. 

Feel free to disagree, but that's my take on that album.  (which is to say that I partially agree with you while on the same time acknowledging that I think what he did on Testimony works)
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Offline Nick

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #516 on: May 30, 2011, 10:45:20 AM »
I think Testimony is the only album Neal has ever done in his three main bands that has any significant filler.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #517 on: May 30, 2011, 10:58:51 AM »
I think Testimony is the only album Neal has ever done in his three main bands that has any significant filler.

I would agree. I feel that Testimony has more filler than even Snow, and I don't think Snow has that much, if at all. On the contrary, since Testimony, Neal has done a lot to trim down filler from his albums. Unfortunately, he took out 3 songs from One, which I think sounds better with them restored in the track listing, but that's just me. He really hit it out of the ballpark with ?, and Sola Scriptura was alright (has a bit of padding, but not really filler), and Lifeline was a mediocre-to-good effort IMO, but none of the songs really screamed filler to me, just not his usual writing as we had come to expect it after the previous 3 albums.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #518 on: May 30, 2011, 11:07:06 AM »
bosk1, I get what you are saying, and when I listen to all of Testimony (which admittedly isn't that often, since, like Snow, it is a major undertaking to have the time to listen to an album that long the whole way through), there is nothing that I think, "Meh, this stinks, so I am gonna skip it," but when going for single songs, I never listen to stuff like "Colder in the Sun" or "Power in the Air," simply because those two songs and "Moving in My Heart" all pretty much have the same melodies and whatnot, but "Moving in My Heart" by far does the best job with them, so it makes those other two expendable to me.

Also, I think the "Interlude"/"The Prince of the Power of the Air"/"The Promise" section is easily expendable, too.  "Interlude" is basically a short, uninteresting instrumental, built around the melody that is used much better in other places on the album, and "The Promise" is built around that vocal chant that sounds much better in "The Storm Before the Calm."  

Once again, it comes down to have too many musical reprises.  Having several main themes that are reused throughout the album can be a really good thing, but in the case of this record, it seems like there are too many that are overused too many times, resulting in major overkill.  But I get that Neal had a lot to say at the time, given that he had just left Spock's Beard and wanted to tell his story, so maybe he had too many lyrics and not enough musical ideas (which is not to say he didn't have a lot of good musical ideas, because he did, but there are a lot of lyrics on this record), and going for Reprise City was the way to go for him at the time. :biggrin:

Lastly, getting back to the new album, lost in the talk of Disc 1 and the awesomeness of "Seeds of Gold" is what a great song "Supernatural" is.  Very cool song, and the similarity to SB's "June" with those vocals in the middle and at the end was a nice touch. :tup :tup
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 11:30:56 AM by KevShmev »

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #519 on: May 30, 2011, 11:14:09 AM »
Snow meanders a bit too much near the end of Disc 2 ("Freak Boy Part 2" through "Ladies and Gentleman..."), but the 1-2 punch at the end of "I Will Go" and "Made Alive Again/Wind at My Back" is :hefdaddy :hefdaddy.

I like One with the restored tracklisting, but "Nothing to Believe" really stands out as being significantly weaker than the rest of the songs.  

Also, I recently broke the first two Sola Scriptura songs into six tracks each using Audacity, and when listening to Neal on random or shuffle, some of those sections are really standing out now as being really good.  Before, they kind of got lost in attempts at grasping 30 minute songs as a whole all at once, but individually, listening to them that way has helped me get into that album a bit more.  

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #520 on: May 30, 2011, 11:28:18 AM »
...and going for Reprise City was the way to go for him at the time.

Interesting side note.  I just google mapped Reprise City, and its main thoroughfare happens to be Mercy Street.  Wow, who knew? 
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #521 on: May 30, 2011, 11:45:25 AM »
Yeah, I agree that Testimony is a bit bloated. I see bosk's point, but like Kev, if I wanted to listen to the album, it is a serious undertaking (unless I am doing other things and music is a background).

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #522 on: May 30, 2011, 12:12:50 PM »
I think Testimony is the only album Neal has ever done in his three main bands that has any significant filler.
I would say that Snow also has significant filler. 
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #523 on: May 30, 2011, 12:45:07 PM »
I think Testimony is the only album Neal has ever done in his three main bands that has any significant filler.
I would say that Snow also has significant filler. 

I thought so too at once, but as I grew to love and understand the album more, everything about it just fell into place and everything seemed to fit right where it was supposed to.

One man's filler is another man's filling.

-Marc.
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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #524 on: May 30, 2011, 03:00:09 PM »
I think Snow is an overrated album, much because a lot of it is great, but much of it just isn't that good. But I don't find it to be filler. To me filler is, good or bad music that inflates the length of the song or album past what seems necessary or natural. I think a clear sign of filler is that you can't point out exactly which song or section is definitely filler, but you know that somewhere too much is there.
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