Author Topic: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread  (Read 555102 times)

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Offline HOF

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6335 on: January 03, 2022, 10:07:15 PM »
Neal has talked on his podcast before about how hard it is for him to compromise within the confines of a band at times. While he admits sometimes having that outside influence and feedback from bandmates about his writing can be important, he also sometimes just wants to be able to put out whatever his vision is without having to compromise on anything with bandmates. So I think he'll always want to do his own solo albums from time to time.

I do agree that there is a very definite "solo prog Neal" output that essentially served the same function for Neal as Spock's Beard, starting with Testimony. I don't think it's hard to draw a distinction between those albums and his first two solo albums or his praise and worship albums or Songs from November and Life and Times. But I also think people should include those other albums when considering his body of work as a whole. Because Neal has never been just a prog guy, and if you're ignoring the poppier singer-songwriter stuff you're missing out on some of the best stuff he's done IMO.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 10:13:19 PM by HOF »

Offline Willthescout7

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6336 on: January 04, 2022, 05:39:00 AM »
Neal has hinted on Facebook that he is working on a project based on a book right now. I want to say that it was a Biography about a missionary but I could be projecting, and I'm too lazy to go look it up. It sounds like it would be a solo prog album, though it is really too early to tell.

Online Kram

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6337 on: January 04, 2022, 11:01:22 AM »
Neal has hinted on Facebook that he is working on a project based on a book right now. I want to say that it was a Biography about a missionary but I could be projecting, and I'm too lazy to go look it up. It sounds like it would be a solo prog album, though it is really too early to tell.
That sounds interesting.  I wonder if it's for a new solo album or possibly the NMB?  I think he always has "something in the works".

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6338 on: January 04, 2022, 11:07:37 AM »
Neal has hinted on Facebook that he is working on a project based on a book right now. I want to say that it was a Biography about a missionary but I could be projecting, and I'm too lazy to go look it up. It sounds like it would be a solo prog album, though it is really too early to tell.

Is it God's Smuggler? He's mentioned writing songs for it in his Nov and Oct IC Newsletters more recently, but revealed it in his July newsletter, saying he had 10-12 songs already written for it by then. It is based on the book God's Smuggler, and it is "a story about a guy named Brother Andrew. He's a man from the Netherlands who smuggled Bibles behind the iron curtain in the 50s and 60s." as Neal said.

He's gone on to say that he doesn't really know how this whole project will manifest, but given the subject matter, I could see it being another NMB album, but at very least, another solo album since he seems to be taking a lot of time and care in crafting the songs for it by himself.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 11:14:20 AM by The Letter M »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6339 on: January 04, 2022, 11:40:58 AM »
Doing a bit of math for the five of us who have put up our rankings of Neal's 8 solo prog albums, here's how they average, out of a total 40 points:

Except that Jesus Chris the Exorcist is a Neal solo prog album, so even if you want to cherry pick and only count certain albums, as if the others never happened, you still left one off.  Or is this where we cherry pick some more and say The Exorcist doesn't count because it used different singers?  "Oh no, Neal did an album that sounds different than all of the others!!!!" 

Neal fans are a strange bunch. I have seen it elsewhere online as well.  I have never seen the fanbase of another artist go out of their way to rank albums by ignoring certain albums for the sake of it.  And it seems like they know that Neal gets accused of his music being too samey, yet their exercise of ranking his prog albums pretty much eliminates all of the albums that do not sound like his "normal" prog albums, so they ironically only reinforce that narrative about Neal.

This would be like if someone started a thread called "What are your favorite debut albums?" and someone said, "Well, Opeth's album with growls are different than the ones without, and Damnation was the first totally without, so I am counting that as their debut!"  :lol :lol

I don't know that it's "cherrypicking" so much as Neal just has had a lot of different projects that are different degrees of similar, and fans like things to fit into neat little boxes, but we don't always agree about what the boxes are or what should go into each one.  To me, the singer-songwriter albums feel like they go in a different category than Neal's solo prog stuff, just because they are a different genre (or at least subgenre) of music.  And Neal seems to feel this way too, it seems, since he rarely if ever includes any of those songs in his sets when he tours for his solo or NMB tours.  So those just feel like separate entities to me. 

Solo prog and NMB are a bit tricker to me.  Yes, there are different players from the early albums.  And they appear to be set up as separate entities legally, I think.  And the songwriting his handled differently.  But overall, the music is virtually indistinguishable, there is considerable overlap in players, and Neal seems to treat the music from the two as completely interchangeable when he tours.  To me, these don't feel like two separate things for most purposes.

Since it was mentioned, I will acknowledge that JCTE is a bit of an oddball.  There were lots of additional players brought into the mix, and the format is really different.  Neal practically views this as a separate one-off project that was in the works for a long time.  But that said, it really isn't all that independent from his other stuff.  So I would include it in the big ball of "Neal solo prog" and NMB. 

So all that said, I completely get that people feel differently about some of those classifications.  And I'm not going to scream too loudly if others see it differently.  At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters.  The above are my opinions only, and I don't think that taking a hard line one way or the other is fruitful, especially since I see a lot of grey rather than clearly defined lines.

So, for me, lumping the solo prog stuff and the NMB stuff together, here's my ranking:

1.  One:  All time favorite album
2.  The Great Adventure:  I have really enjoyed Neal's output through the years, but this just took things back to a level I hadn't felt in a LONG time. 
3.  Sola Scriptura:  Could be #2 on a different day.
4.  Testimony:  Nostalgia probably plays a big role in ranking it this high.  But I love it.  Yes, it feels overly long.  But when you take time to truly understand and appreciate the story, I think it becomes apparent that it is long and plodding for a reason.  It's kinda like Lord of the Rings in that way.  If you are looking for conciseness or action, it isn't the thing for you.  But if you can be patient and understand that the long, plodding nature of the journey itself is kinda the point, it is pretty rewarding. 
5.  Similitude:  Really solid album.  I was not expecting TGA to top it and was surprised when that one was so good.  But I really like this one as well.
6.  JCTE:  Hard to rank.  There are some things that bug me about this album.  And some parts that don't do a lot for me.  But the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  So at least for now, it feels like it should be about here.
7.  Testimony 2:  Feels like it pales in comparison to the original.  And, for the most part, little if any of disk 2 has stuck with me.  But there are some really great moments as well. 
8.  The Grand Experiment:  This album doesn't really feel "special" like a lot of Neal's albums do, but it is just a fun, enjoyable listen.
9.  Momentum:  Same comments as TGE.  These two are almost interchangeable for me.
10.  Sola Gratia:  Some things on here confuse me, but there are some great moments too.  I feel like Neal could have done more with this concept than he did.  Almost seems like he was distracted.
11.  Innocence & Danger:  Maybe I just haven't gotten used to it yet.  It's a perfectly fine album.  But nothing stands out to me yet.  But admittedly, the problem is that it came out at roughly the same time as DT's new album, so I have barely given this one the time of day.  Maybe it "deserves" better, but it is what it is.
12.  ?:  Some really cool moments, but doesn't do it for me overall. 
13.  Lifeline:  Leviathan is not a good song.  It just isn't.  I have no idea why Neal thinks otherwise and keeps playing it.  And not much else on the album stands out to me or has stood the test of time.
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Online Kram

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6340 on: January 04, 2022, 01:08:37 PM »
I don't know that it's "cherrypicking" so much as Neal just has had a lot of different projects that are different degrees of similar, and fans like things to fit into neat little boxes, but we don't always agree about what the boxes are or what should go into each one.  To me, the singer-songwriter albums feel like they go in a different category than Neal's solo prog stuff, just because they are a different genre (or at least subgenre) of music.  And Neal seems to feel this way too, it seems, since he rarely if ever includes any of those songs in his sets when he tours for his solo or NMB tours.  So those just feel like separate entities to me. 

Solo prog and NMB are a bit tricker to me.  Yes, there are different players from the early albums.  And they appear to be set up as separate entities legally, I think.  And the songwriting his handled differently.  But overall, the music is virtually indistinguishable, there is considerable overlap in players, and Neal seems to treat the music from the two as completely interchangeable when he tours.  To me, these don't feel like two separate things for most purposes.

Since it was mentioned, I will acknowledge that JCTE is a bit of an oddball.  There were lots of additional players brought into the mix, and the format is really different.  Neal practically views this as a separate one-off project that was in the works for a long time.  But that said, it really isn't all that independent from his other stuff.  So I would include it in the big ball of "Neal solo prog" and NMB. 

So all that said, I completely get that people feel differently about some of those classifications.  And I'm not going to scream too loudly if others see it differently.  At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters.  The above are my opinions only, and I don't think that taking a hard line one way or the other is fruitful, especially since I see a lot of grey rather than clearly defined lines.

So, for me, lumping the solo prog stuff and the NMB stuff together, here's my ranking:

1.  One:  All time favorite album
2.  The Great Adventure:  I have really enjoyed Neal's output through the years, but this just took things back to a level I hadn't felt in a LONG time. 
3.  Sola Scriptura:  Could be #2 on a different day.
4.  Testimony:  Nostalgia probably plays a big role in ranking it this high.  But I love it.  Yes, it feels overly long.  But when you take time to truly understand and appreciate the story, I think it becomes apparent that it is long and plodding for a reason.  It's kinda like Lord of the Rings in that way.  If you are looking for conciseness or action, it isn't the thing for you.  But if you can be patient and understand that the long, plodding nature of the journey itself is kinda the point, it is pretty rewarding. 
5.  Similitude:  Really solid album.  I was not expecting TGA to top it and was surprised when that one was so good.  But I really like this one as well.
6.  JCTE:  Hard to rank.  There are some things that bug me about this album.  And some parts that don't do a lot for me.  But the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  So at least for now, it feels like it should be about here.
7.  Testimony 2:  Feels like it pales in comparison to the original.  And, for the most part, little if any of disk 2 has stuck with me.  But there are some really great moments as well. 
8.  The Grand Experiment:  This album doesn't really feel "special" like a lot of Neal's albums do, but it is just a fun, enjoyable listen.
9.  Momentum:  Same comments as TGE.  These two are almost interchangeable for me.
10.  Sola Gratia:  Some things on here confuse me, but there are some great moments too.  I feel like Neal could have done more with this concept than he did.  Almost seems like he was distracted.
11.  Innocence & Danger:  Maybe I just haven't gotten used to it yet.  It's a perfectly fine album.  But nothing stands out to me yet.  But admittedly, the problem is that it came out at roughly the same time as DT's new album, so I have barely given this one the time of day.  Maybe it "deserves" better, but it is what it is.
12.  ?:  Some really cool moments, but doesn't do it for me overall. 
13.  Lifeline:  Leviathan is not a good song.  It just isn't.  I have no idea why Neal thinks otherwise and keeps playing it.  And not much else on the album stands out to me or has stood the test of time.
Great post!  Except for your rankings LOL

Offline me7

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6341 on: January 04, 2022, 01:20:38 PM »
The last few pages taught me, that some Neal fans don't consider "?" to be among his best works  :omg:

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6342 on: January 04, 2022, 01:53:15 PM »
The last few pages taught me, that some Neal fans don't consider "?" to be among his best works  :omg:

To this day, I've only listened to it in full about 1 or 2 times at best. I rank it towards the bottom with Lifeline :lol

I should give it another spin soon.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline HOF

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6343 on: January 04, 2022, 01:55:13 PM »
The last few pages taught me, that some Neal fans don't consider "?" to be among his best works  :omg:

You know, I don't think I've heard a note of that album. Must have heard some promo clips maybe, but it came out before YouTube and streaming services made checking things out easy to do, and I was so disappointed by One that it was not an auto-buy for me at that point.

Offline 425

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6344 on: January 04, 2022, 03:03:30 PM »
HOF, if part of your issue with One is that it feels somewhat overlong and reprise happy, you might enjoy ?. It's the most compact concept album of Neal's career.

I think ? is maybe Neal's best solo album (I don't include NMB in that). There are a lot of pieces on there that are unusual for him, and it feels like a cohesive musical journey that doesn't waste a moment. The other competitors would be Sola Scripture and the first Testimony (which is kind of the opposite direction from ?, but makes it work).
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Offline bluefox4000

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6345 on: January 04, 2022, 03:29:39 PM »
My issue with one is it just feels overlong even for a neal album.  don't get me wrong i love

the Creation
Author of Confusion
Separated Man
Reunion

but i just get bored when i listen too it in spots....hence why it ranks low with me.

add in cut songs ad it just goes on and on and on, lol


Offline HOF

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6346 on: January 04, 2022, 03:37:58 PM »
I just didn't find the music on One to be enjoyable. Just wasn't picking up what Neal was putting down. Testimony was also a bit of a letdown, but I at least enjoyed a good chunk of it. One really made me question whether I needed to buy any more NM albums. I don't think I picked up another NM release until Flying Colors came out, and I've only sort of dipped my toes in Neal's solo prog stuff since. I'll pick stuff up when it's discounted on Radiant though (that's how I got Momentum, Lifeline, and recently Testimony II). 

Offline 425

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6347 on: January 04, 2022, 04:00:08 PM »
I feel that. One is not at all among my favorites, either. I think there are good songs on there, especially Author of Confusion and Reunion, but I don't really connect with songs like The Creation and The Separated Man as much as a lot of other NM music.
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Offline emtee

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6348 on: January 04, 2022, 04:03:28 PM »
? Was a swing and a miss for me. Testimony and One are my favorites but I&D is also really good. I never bought anything after ? Until the new one.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6349 on: January 04, 2022, 05:45:13 PM »
I wonder if liking One and/or ? depends on when you discovered Neal and his music. Personally, I discovered him in 2005, just before ? came out, so it was his first new album for me after I became a fan. I *really* enjoyed it, especially with all the guest musicians on it. I also really enjoyed One quite a bit, even with the expanded tracklist to make it an 11-track, 920-minute album. It was his latest album when I became a fan, so I spun the heck out of it and really got into One.

Also, Neal just released his December IC Newsletter and he brings up his God's Smuggler musical some more, saying that his recent watch of Tick, Tick... Boom! may have influenced his writing a bit. Other than that, he doesn't give many more details, but at this point, he probably has well over 20 songs written at various stages of completion. I think he'll do another JTCE-styled album, and at this point, that means he's written at least three different musicals (the other being the aforementioned Hitman, which was released via the Inner Circle in a demo format). With regards to "fitting his work in a neat box", I think we can safely put his musicals in a separate category apart from solo prog, NMB, worship, and singer-songwriter stuff, as well as the more obvious distinctions with his other bands (SB, TA, and FC). He definitely has a  lot of avenues for musical output, and as others have said above, I think he'll keep doing this until he's physically and/or mentally unable to write/record/perform music.

-Marc.
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Offline 425

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6350 on: January 04, 2022, 06:03:49 PM »
It's possible, but I don't think I would fit into that theory. I got into Transatlantic in around 2013 and Neal solo in around 2015, and I rate ? near the top and One near the bottom.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6351 on: January 04, 2022, 06:31:33 PM »
? is ranked as Neal's 2nd best solo album by voters at both RYM and Prog Archives, and usually gets mad love from most on the fan FB page, so I thinki it is safe to say that Neal's fans in general do consider it one of his best solo albums, although there will be always be some contrarians, some of whom post here at DTF. :)

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6352 on: January 04, 2022, 06:59:33 PM »
Also, Neal just released his December IC Newsletter and he brings up his God's Smuggler musical some more, saying that his recent watch of Tick, Tick... Boom! may have influenced his writing a bit. Other than that, he doesn't give many more details, but at this point, he probably has well over 20 songs written at various stages of completion. I think he'll do another JTCE-styled album, and at this point, that means he's written at least three different musicals (the other being the aforementioned Hitman, which was released via the Inner Circle in a demo format). With regards to "fitting his work in a neat box", I think we can safely put his musicals in a separate category apart from solo prog, NMB, worship, and singer-songwriter stuff, as well as the more obvious distinctions with his other bands (SB, TA, and FC). He definitely has a  lot of avenues for musical output, and as others have said above, I think he'll keep doing this until he's physically and/or mentally unable to write/record/perform music.

-Marc.

Very interested in that new musical he's working on! Also, never heard of Hitman before, but it makes sense considering I'm not an IC member. Do you have any info/backstory on it? Sorry if this was mentioned recently in the thread and I missed it :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online MinistroRaven

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6353 on: January 04, 2022, 08:39:35 PM »
I wonder if liking One and/or ? depends on when you discovered Neal and his music. Personally, I discovered him in 2005, just before ? came out, so it was his first new album for me after I became a fan. I *really* enjoyed it, especially with all the guest musicians on it. I also really enjoyed One quite a bit, even with the expanded tracklist to make it an 11-track, 920-minute album. It was his latest album when I became a fan, so I spun the heck out of it and really got into One.

Also, Neal just released his December IC Newsletter and he brings up his God's Smuggler musical some more, saying that his recent watch of Tick, Tick... Boom! may have influenced his writing a bit. Other than that, he doesn't give many more details, but at this point, he probably has well over 20 songs written at various stages of completion. I think he'll do another JTCE-styled album, and at this point, that means he's written at least three different musicals (the other being the aforementioned Hitman, which was released via the Inner Circle in a demo format). With regards to "fitting his work in a neat box", I think we can safely put his musicals in a separate category apart from solo prog, NMB, worship, and singer-songwriter stuff, as well as the more obvious distinctions with his other bands (SB, TA, and FC). He definitely has a  lot of avenues for musical output, and as others have said above, I think he'll keep doing this until he's physically and/or mentally unable to write/record/perform music.

-Marc.

He has written 4 musical counting HOMELAND, another IC release

EDIT:

HOMELAND album info:

Homeland is an album by Neal Morse. It is a piece that was written for a musical theater production in the early 1990s. Many of the musical themes from this production would later appear on some of the Spock's Beard albums. This is the twelfth release in the Neal Morse Inner Circle

Tracklist:

Set up for Overture/Son of Mine
Overture/Son of Mine
Set up for Where Will I Go Now
Where Will I Go Now
Set up for Lord of the Flies
Lord of the Flies
Set up for Cut Throat Island/Mother
Cut Throat Island
Mother
Set up for Haiti Rise
Haiti Rise
Set up for What Do They Know?
What Do They Know?
Set up for We Will Better the World
We Will Better the World
Set up for How Can You Love That Man?
How Can You Love That Man?
Set up for The Greatest of Them All
The Greatest of Them All
Set up for Rise Again
Rise Again
Set up for the End Of Homeland
The End Of Homeland
Rise Again Reprise
End Talk

Online MinistroRaven

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6354 on: January 04, 2022, 08:49:30 PM »
Also, Neal just released his December IC Newsletter and he brings up his God's Smuggler musical some more, saying that his recent watch of Tick, Tick... Boom! may have influenced his writing a bit. Other than that, he doesn't give many more details, but at this point, he probably has well over 20 songs written at various stages of completion. I think he'll do another JTCE-styled album, and at this point, that means he's written at least three different musicals (the other being the aforementioned Hitman, which was released via the Inner Circle in a demo format). With regards to "fitting his work in a neat box", I think we can safely put his musicals in a separate category apart from solo prog, NMB, worship, and singer-songwriter stuff, as well as the more obvious distinctions with his other bands (SB, TA, and FC). He definitely has a  lot of avenues for musical output, and as others have said above, I think he'll keep doing this until he's physically and/or mentally unable to write/record/perform music.

-Marc.

Very interested in that new musical he's working on! Also, never heard of Hitman before, but it makes sense considering I'm not an IC member. Do you have any info/backstory on it? Sorry if this was mentioned recently in the thread and I missed it :biggrin:

Notes
Hit Man: A Musical by Neal Morse was first started in the early 1990s. It includes demo material from the first recordings in Oxnard, California.

Two record moguls make a bet, one saying he can "make a band famous that doesn't even exist". This is the story and the musical that is inspired from this premise.
Band
See credits (only additional info shown)
Robert White as Stan
Maggie Egin as Iris
Pam Parker as Iris
Christopher as Wolfe
Margaret Mendenhall as Tish
Dean Bro as Wolfe

Characters
Nat Wolfe or Frank Wolfe - the 'Hit Man' or The Record Executive
Art Godaman - The Rival Record Executive or Wolfe's mogul friend in the 'bet'
Stan Fudgerucker - The Desperate Songwriter
Iris Fudgerucker - The Songwriter's Wife
Tisch - The Record Executive Secretary
James - with Jo, Stan and Iris' Best Friends
Jo - with James, Stan and Iris' Best Friends
Ensemble - various music business people
Collideoscope - the band

This is "Inner Circle #4" November 2005

tracklist:

Track listing
1 Intro
2 The Overture / The Buzz
3 Set Up for "I Want to Be"
4 I Want to Be
5 Set Up for "Hit Man"
6 Hit Man
7 Set Up for "You Were My Eyes"
8 You Were My Eyes
9 Set Up for "We Are the Artists"
10 We Are the Artists
11 Set Up for "The Contract / Sign Here"
12 The Contract / Sign Here
13 Have You Heard?
14 Set Up for "The Duet"
15 The Duet
16 Set Up for "You're What Makes Me Tick"
17 You're What Makes Me Tick
18 Set Up for "Wolfe's Big Debut"
19 Wolfe's Big Debut
20 Set Up for "Until He Finds Me"
21 Until He Finds Me
22 Set Up for "The Glory"
23 The Glory
24 Set Up for "Collideoscope"
25 Collideoscope
26 Set Up for "There's the Moon"
27 There's the Moon
28 Set up for the End
29 The Buzz Reprise
30 Never Let the Light Go Dark

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6355 on: January 04, 2022, 08:56:34 PM »
? is ranked as Neal's 2nd best solo album by voters at both RYM and Prog Archives, and usually gets mad love from most on the fan FB page, so I thinki it is safe to say that Neal's fans in general do consider it one of his best solo albums, although there will be always be some contrarians, some of whom post here at DTF. :)

Yup.  I will happily own the "contrarian" badge if that's what you want to call it.  But I'm also not a hater.  I acknowledge that it is ranked highly by a lot of fans and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it if asked.  It's just not my thing.

But you don't need to try to bait me in almost every post relating to Neal and DT and try to make my opinions sound more extreme than they are.  I have no problem voicing my tastes and my opinions, but it's not like I don't acknowledge that others' opinions might differ.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6356 on: January 04, 2022, 09:52:01 PM »
@MinistroRaven thanks a lot, pal :tup :tup
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6357 on: January 05, 2022, 02:18:12 AM »
I have rarely listened to ?, don't really care for it to be honest.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6358 on: January 05, 2022, 07:14:48 AM »
I love ?, but it definitely has a slightly different feel than some of his other albums.  Kind of heavy (for Neal), and a lot of compact songs that flow together like one long thing.

But really, as much as we talk about the NM sameiness, most of his albums are slightly distinct.  Nothing from Sola Scriptura feels like it would fit on Lifeline, for instance (and vice versa).
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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6359 on: January 05, 2022, 03:09:45 PM »
I love ?!  It's my second favorite Neal solo prog album (not including NMB albums) after Sola Scriptura.  I really should have made it to Moresfest 2015 - as they played both Sola Scriptura and ? - would have been my ultimate Morsefest!

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6360 on: January 05, 2022, 04:30:32 PM »
@MinistroRaven thanks a lot, pal :tup :tup

 :tup

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6361 on: January 05, 2022, 07:05:56 PM »
? is ranked as Neal's 2nd best solo album by voters at both RYM and Prog Archives, and usually gets mad love from most on the fan FB page, so I thinki it is safe to say that Neal's fans in general do consider it one of his best solo albums, although there will be always be some contrarians, some of whom post here at DTF. :)

Yup.  I will happily own the "contrarian" badge if that's what you want to call it.  But I'm also not a hater.  I acknowledge that it is ranked highly by a lot of fans and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it if asked.  It's just not my thing.

But you don't need to try to bait me in almost every post relating to Neal and DT and try to make my opinions sound more extreme than they are.  I have no problem voicing my tastes and my opinions, but it's not like I don't acknowledge that others' opinions might differ.

I honestly do not know what you mean with the baiting comment.  I think some of us are just more aggressively wordy with our opinions (that can probably be said about both you and me), but no offense is intended.  :tup :tup

And "contrarian" was not meant to be negative or anything.  Heck, I am a contrarian when it comes to Sola Scriptura (I think it is really good, but I don't consider it one of his best like many fans do), and I am good with that.  It would be no fun if we all loved the same stuff.  :hat :hat

Offline Stadler

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6362 on: January 06, 2022, 07:12:03 AM »
? is ranked as Neal's 2nd best solo album by voters at both RYM and Prog Archives, and usually gets mad love from most on the fan FB page, so I thinki it is safe to say that Neal's fans in general do consider it one of his best solo albums, although there will be always be some contrarians, some of whom post here at DTF. :)

Yup.  I will happily own the "contrarian" badge if that's what you want to call it.  But I'm also not a hater.  I acknowledge that it is ranked highly by a lot of fans and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it if asked.  It's just not my thing.

But you don't need to try to bait me in almost every post relating to Neal and DT and try to make my opinions sound more extreme than they are.  I have no problem voicing my tastes and my opinions, but it's not like I don't acknowledge that others' opinions might differ.

I honestly do not know what you mean with the baiting comment.  I think some of us are just more aggressively wordy with our opinions (that can probably be said about both you and me), but no offense is intended.  :tup :tup

And "contrarian" was not meant to be negative or anything.  Heck, I am a contrarian when it comes to Sola Scriptura (I think it is really good, but I don't consider it one of his best like many fans do), and I am good with that.  It would be no fun if we all loved the same stuff.  :hat :hat

Contrarian?  You rang?  :) :) :) :)

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6363 on: January 06, 2022, 05:24:56 PM »
I think the chances that he does another solo album outside of NMB is approaching 100%.   Not to be dramatic or starry-eyed about it, but I get the sense that making records for Neal is not a job, not something you "retire" from.  I think he will be making music in some form or another until his brain is no longer processing that music for one reason or another.

I think it's far more likely he jettisons the other bands than it is that he forsakes another solo album (simply because the consequences of the burden are far greater when you have 2/3/4 other band members).
I agree with this as well.  He'll definitely release more solo albums for sure.  If anything, I think we'll see less of TA and Flying Colors, unfortunately.  I think they know they have something special with the NMB chemistry, so I expect that to continue as well as future "solo" releases.

If Transatlantic is done, I'd be fine with that. They produced five very fine albums and as great at TAU is, I'm not sure they could do anything else that could top that or their earlier works. A sixth TA album just seems difficult for me to imagine what it'd be like. Flying Colors, on the other hand, I really hope sticks around, as it's the most unlike-his-other-bands that Neal has been in, especially since he's not a major musical contributor with Steve Morse and Casey McPherson throwing in their music just as much as Neal. I would love to see at least two more albums from them, I think they've got it in them to do at least two more and then call it a day. I honestly hope they reconvene this year, especially if Neal's tour plans get canceled in the wake of resurging COVID cases. Get the boys back together to do FC4 this Spring and release it in the Fall, and maybe by then, touring will be more certain and they could do a FC Tour (opening with Morsefest 2022!).

-Marc.

I can also see TA being done or at least another long break.  I get the impression that there is always friction in those records, particularly between Neal and Roine wrestling a little to get more of their parts included.  They actually got to a point this time where they literally couldn’t compromise and took the unprecedented step of releasing their own different versions of the album.  I think it will be a while before they go back there but I may be totally wrong.  I’m not saying this is Roger Waters/David Gilmour level animosity or anything but I’m not sure it’s 100% a fun experience for them either.

It wouldn’t worry me too much to be honest as NMB scratch that particular itch for me for the most part although Roine does add a bit of a laid back 70’s vibe which sets it apart.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6364 on: January 06, 2022, 06:55:22 PM »


Contrarian?  You rang?  :) :) :) :)

Hehe,  :tup :tup

I can also see TA being done or at least another long break.  I get the impression that there is always friction in those records, particularly between Neal and Roine wrestling a little to get more of their parts included.  They actually got to a point this time where they literally couldn’t compromise and took the unprecedented step of releasing their own different versions of the album.  I think it will be a while before they go back there but I may be totally wrong.  I’m not saying this is Roger Waters/David Gilmour level animosity or anything but I’m not sure it’s 100% a fun experience for them either.

It wouldn’t worry me too much to be honest as NMB scratch that particular itch for me for the most part although Roine does add a bit of a laid back 70’s vibe which sets it apart.

I am a big fan of Roine as well, but for me NMB is much better and more interesting than Transatlantic right now.  Don't get me wrong, I'll be seeing TA at Morsefest this year and will have a blast without a doubt, but I personally feel now that all four NMB album are better than both of the last two records Transatlantic did.  As much as I love the first three Transatlantic albums, if you asked me, "What two Neal projects/bands would you like to see new studio albums from in the next year or so?", my quick answer would be Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors.

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6365 on: January 07, 2022, 10:43:44 AM »
But that was not a bonus disc. 

That is a strange position to take.  But whatever.  The semantics don't bother me.  We both know what disk/songs we are talking about, which is the main thing.  :tup
I think Kev's right based on Neal never marketed it as a "bonus disc", but rather as a double album.  But I agree with you, and the others, in that it does have that feel (even though Seeds of Gold is one of his best).  I think after Testimony, which was so long and all about his story, it's natural to think of disc 2 of Testimony 2 as a "bonus disc", as it's not a continuation of Neal's "story".
I was listening to Morsefest 2017 yesterday, and it's interesting that they played both Supernatural and Seeds of Gold, prior to playing Disc 1, but they did not play Absolute Beginner.  Anybody have any insight into why they skipped that one?

I also found it interesting, that when it came to Steve Morse's amazing solo in Seeds of Gold, they split it up with Neal taking the first half (different than Steve Morse) then Eric comes ripping in with the 2nd half.  I'm surprised they didn't let Eric take the whole thing.  He's an amazing player who can seriously shred (after watching him handle some of the crazy LTE JP parts, as well as Paul Gilbert's amazing solo in The Door), I feel like he could have handled it and done it justice.  Does anybody know if the part of the solo Neal was playing was from the original demo he did or something like that?  If that's the case, then I can see how it makes sense - otherwise I would have let Eric shred away.  Just my opinion..

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6366 on: January 07, 2022, 10:50:58 AM »
Neal played the solo live when they did shows for T2 (this was before he got the first iteration of what now is NMB), so I guess it was just a nod to that.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6367 on: January 07, 2022, 11:23:07 AM »
I am a big fan of Roine as well, but for me NMB is much better and more interesting than Transatlantic right now.  Don't get me wrong, I'll be seeing TA at Morsefest this year and will have a blast without a doubt, but I personally feel now that all four NMB album are better than both of the last two records Transatlantic did.  As much as I love the first three Transatlantic albums, if you asked me, "What two Neal projects/bands would you like to see new studio albums from in the next year or so?", my quick answer would be Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors.

That's an interesting take.  I have cooled of a bit on The Absolute Universe since it came out.  I'm not sure I would put it in the top 4 anymore.  But even at #4, I feel that it is a close #4.  Similitude and TGA are in that same tier for me.  And it would be close.  So close that I hate to rank them, because I feel it would be just far too arbitrary.  But if I had to, I think at the moment, I would go:
1.  TGA
2.  TAU
3.  Similitude
But, again, they are close.  Similitude being last in that ranking does not imply that it doesn't measure up.  The distance between #1 and #3 on that list is miniscule.

And I would probably lump Kaliedoscope and the other two NMB albums together in a lower tier.  They feel about the same to me in quality.  I like them.  But I could easily do without and wouldn't miss them much if Thanos snapped them out of existence. 

But I guess all I'm really trying to say is that I love TAU, and would absolutely put it up there with the best NMB material.  Honestly, if I could plan my "Ultimate Morsefest Experience" right now, I would probably have it be a 3-night affair with Similitude, TGA, and TAU each played in their entirety.  Yeah, not realistic at all.  But if that could somehow happen, I don't think I could come up with anything more perfect.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6368 on: January 07, 2022, 11:32:43 AM »
And I would probably lump Kaliedoscope and the other two NMB albums together in a lower tier.  They feel about the same to me in quality.  I like them.  But I could easily do without and wouldn't miss them much if Thanos snapped them out of existence. 

Neal's catalog is so big that Thanos would need to snap twice to get rid of it all ;D
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline 425

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Re: Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6369 on: January 07, 2022, 11:47:25 AM »
I am a big fan of Roine as well, but for me NMB is much better and more interesting than Transatlantic right now.  Don't get me wrong, I'll be seeing TA at Morsefest this year and will have a blast without a doubt, but I personally feel now that all four NMB album are better than both of the last two records Transatlantic did.  As much as I love the first three Transatlantic albums, if you asked me, "What two Neal projects/bands would you like to see new studio albums from in the next year or so?", my quick answer would be Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors.

I definitely agree with this. I have my own specific, lyric-related reasons (discussed in one of the AOTY threads) for not loving TAU, but even just musically, I found Innocence & Danger vastly more interesting and enjoyable.

It's hard not to notice that NMB is one album away from producing about the same amount of original music in a decade as Transatlantic produced in 22 years (NMB is at 387 minutes including the TGE bonus tracks; TA is at 433 minutes including the TW bonus tracks and counting the Ultimate edition for TAU). And, controversial though it may be, I think that if NMB 5 is anywhere near the level of the first four, that run will top the Transatlantic discography. BAF and TW would be very difficult to beat, but I think I'd put all four NMB albums above the other three TA albums—at the very least above SMPTe and TAU (it might be a close call between Kaleidoscope and the last couple).

In fact, this might be an interesting ranking to do:
1. The Whirlwind
2. Bridge Across Forever
3. The Great Adventure
4. Innocence & Danger
5. The Grand Experiment
6. Kaleidoscope
7. The Similitude of a Dream
8. SMPTe
9. The Absolute Universe
And if spirit's a sign,
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