Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

[HolidaysAnoraks]

As far as Morsefest 2017 goes, do you guys think he could end up doing a themed night? I'd be down with a night of the epics!

[Moor]

Mike Portnoy praised the last album by his son's band as better than early DT.

Portnoy on the upcoming BC&SL, "Imagine a DREAM THEATER album with 'A Change Of Seasons', 'Octavarium', 'Learning To Live', 'Pull Me Under' and 'The Glass Prison'... all on one album... COULD YOU HANDLE IT?? Excited? I sure am!!!!"

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Neal Morse has been outside my radar for quite some time now, but today somebody mentioned the Similitude album to me (mostly because of MP's rant on his forum).

Bummer really, considering how I was the world's biggest fan of his early output, there's just nothing that grabs me about his music anymore. By about song 4 or so I was starting to get actively annoyed by it and switched to something else. I guess people still hear new things in his output, but it just sounds so self-derivative to me. The whole "it's not Neal, it's the band" thing is also silly. Of course it's 90% Neal, the music, the lyrics etc are obviously his.

Oh lawd, what's he ranting about now?

I think he was dismayed at the poor pickup of the album, complaining that nobody outside his inner fan circle knows about it.

Really? lol

[rumborak]

I think Portnoy did a great job with that simulisten, and I even came away liking him more as a person (or maybe disliking him less, LOL), but he seemed a bit miffed that some people are still turned off by the g-word, and I thought, he can't be that obtuse. By and large, I am not bothered by the overtly spiritual lyrics he wrote from 2003-2011 (he really has toned it way down on the last three prog albums), but I can totally see why some are. Not everyone wants to hear about God and Jesus and redemption on every album, and let's face it, Neal loves to sing about redemption.

At this point, I would almost say he should just continue going all out on God. I mean, at this point his circle of fans is what it is, and even if he tones it down on a release, the vast body of existing spiritual lyrics will likely cause the needle to not move much. It's a bit like Amy Grant in that sense.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I think Portnoy did a great job with that simulisten, and I even came away liking him more as a person (or maybe disliking him less, LOL), but he seemed a bit miffed that some people are still turned off by the g-word, and I thought, he can't be that obtuse. By and large, I am not bothered by the overtly spiritual lyrics he wrote from 2003-2011 (he really has toned it way down on the last three prog albums), but I can totally see why some are. Not everyone wants to hear about God and Jesus and redemption on every album, and let's face it, Neal loves to sing about redemption.

At this point, I would almost say he should just continue going all out on God. I mean, at this point his circle of fans is what it is, and even if he tones it down on a release, the vast body of existing spiritual lyrics will likely cause the needle to not move much. It's a bit like Amy Grant in that sense.

Agreed. Neal has put himself into a corner lyrically-wise.

[KevShmev]

I think Portnoy did a great job with that simulisten, and I even came away liking him more as a person (or maybe disliking him less, LOL), but he seemed a bit miffed that some people are still turned off by the g-word, and I thought, he can't be that obtuse. By and large, I am not bothered by the overtly spiritual lyrics he wrote from 2003-2011 (he really has toned it way down on the last three prog albums), but I can totally see why some are. Not everyone wants to hear about God and Jesus and redemption on every album, and let's face it, Neal loves to sing about redemption.

At this point, I would almost say he should just continue going all out on God. I mean, at this point his circle of fans is what it is, and even if he tones it down on a release, the vast body of existing spiritual lyrics will likely cause the needle to not move much. It's a bit like Amy Grant in that sense.

I agree, in the sense that it won't make him a lot of newer fans, but I think toning down the spiritual stuff could definitely bring back older fans who haven't been as keen on his solo work because of the lyrics being more overtly spiritual than they were with Spock's pre-Snow or the first two TA albums.  Case in point, a longtime friend, who is as big on Spock's and TA as I am, has largely shied away from Neal's solo work because of the lyrics, but The Grand Experiment kind of peaked his interest again, and he is liking the new album quite a bit, too.  And it's no secret that, while still spiritual in nature, the lyrics on the last two are a lot less in your face than the ones on Testimony, One, Sola Scriptura or Lifeline.  That friend is now going with me to the show here next month, which wouldn't have happen two years ago. 

[The Letter M]

I think Portnoy did a great job with that simulisten, and I even came away liking him more as a person (or maybe disliking him less, LOL), but he seemed a bit miffed that some people are still turned off by the g-word, and I thought, he can't be that obtuse. By and large, I am not bothered by the overtly spiritual lyrics he wrote from 2003-2011 (he really has toned it way down on the last three prog albums), but I can totally see why some are. Not everyone wants to hear about God and Jesus and redemption on every album, and let's face it, Neal loves to sing about redemption.

At this point, I would almost say he should just continue going all out on God. I mean, at this point his circle of fans is what it is, and even if he tones it down on a release, the vast body of existing spiritual lyrics will likely cause the needle to not move much. It's a bit like Amy Grant in that sense.

I agree, in the sense that it won't make him a lot of newer fans, but I think toning down the spiritual stuff could definitely bring back older fans who haven't been as keen on his solo work because of the lyrics being more overtly spiritual than they were with Spock's pre-Snow or the first two TA albums.  Case in point, a longtime friend, who is as big on Spock's and TA as I am, has largely shied away from Neal's solo work because of the lyrics, but The Grand Experiment kind of peaked his interest again, and he is liking the new album quite a bit, too.  And it's no secret that, while still spiritual in nature, the lyrics on the last two are a lot less in your face than the ones on Testimony, One, Sola Scriptura or Lifeline.  That friend is now going with me to the show here next month, which wouldn't have happen two years ago.

Since "Seeds Of Gold" (and I guess all of disc 2 of T2), Neal's lyrics have been less overtly Christian and a bit more spiritual in the vein of early SB and early TA, especially with Momentum and TGE, where the lyrics are either very obtuse or just not as in-your-face as they used to be with Neal.

With TSOAD, I think it's a fair balance. There's definitely a bit more of the Lord/God/Jesus in the lyrics, but it's not beaten over your head at all, and it's spread out over long stretches of other lyrics topics. The thing I don't like much about Lifeline is that it isn't a concept album like the four that came before it. There, the Christian-nature of the lyrics was a bit more conceptual and story-like, so I could understand the use of those lyrics in the concept-album sense, like they were part of the story he was telling, and less of a worship album of Neal just preaching his faith, which is what some of Lifeline sounds like to me. I've grown to appreciate Lifeline more over the years, but it's more direct lyrics were a huge turn off for me at the time.

-Marc.

[Skeever]

I don't really feel like Morse's lyrics have become less spiritual. People say that all the time, but the seem to have stayed about the same to me. Maybe they've become less "heavy" - less Neal trying to make points out Dogma or philosophy as he seems to have done on albums such as ? and SS.

[Mosh]

Neal's lyrics have always been spiritual, even before he became a big Christian. His recent lyrics have gone back to the broader spirituality of (for example) Stranger In Your Soul and further away from something blatant like the content of Testimony.

[KevShmev]

If someone who was completely unfamiliar with Neal Morse listened to One, Testimony or Sola Scriptura, they would have no doubt as to where his spirituality stood.

If this same person first listened to The Grand Experiment or Momentum, I doubt they'd come away thinking, "Man, that guy sure loves religion."  Like you said, Mosh, the lyrics are back to mostly being presented on a broader scale, similar to the first two TA albums and the first five Spock's albums.

[KevShmev]

The Similitude of a Dream is now on a small list of albums I have bought more than once (not counting buying albums twice because of a remaster or anything like that).  I had bought the digital version on the day of its release, but I wanted the real CDs and the Making Of DVD, so I ordered that last week from Radiant, and it arrived yesterday.  The Making Of was pretty cool. 

Other albums I have bought more than once include:

Porcupine Tree - Deadwing (I bought three copies at the time, one for me and both of my brothers)
Dream Theater - Scenes from a Memory (the girl I was dating at the time liked it, so I let her have my copy and bought another for myself)

Oh, and I had also ordered the Momentum live set. I remember being annoyed at the time of its release, because it was only offered with the live CDs, of which I have no use for, but it was only $14.99 last week, so I couldn't resist.  It was worth it just for World Without End and the set of ? songs.

[Mladen]

That's one fine live DVD, I must say. World without end and ? suite are tremendous, but the real highlights are The Conflict and the Testimony part.

[KevShmev]

Yep, The Conflict is good, especially the Two Down, One to Go section.

I have to admit, though, that the Testimony album doesn't do it that much for me anymore.  There are still some songs on it I am a big fan of, but as a whole, it's just lacking compared to every other prog album he has done since, except for Lifeline.  The newer stuff have toned down lyrics really makes the ones on Testimony stand out as being a bit too much.  Don't get me wrong, I still like the album, but he has so much material that it rarely gets any time anymore in my CD player or iTunes.

And while I thought T2 was arguably his best work right after it came out, I think I've come around to not thinking that anymore.  I'd still put it near the top, but not at the top or even top 3 anymore. 

[KevShmev]

TSOAD is moving up the list...

CANNOT

STOP

LISTENING

 

[bosk1]

I KNOW!

EDIT:  Have any of you read The Pilgrim's Progress?  I never did.  For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

[KevShmev]

No, and I have honestly have no urge to.  I prefer to leave the lyrics as they are, instead of finding what is obviously a deeper religious meaning.  I like when his lyrics are spiritual in a more general way, and even if they aren't that way this time around, on the surface they mostly appear to be, so I'd prefer to leave it that way.

[NoseofNicko]

4th listen to TSOAD and it finally clicked. Good album. I expect it to keep growing on me.

[Kwyjibo]

I don't really have a clue what TSOAD is about and frankly I don't care, so I won't read the book. The ones where I understand the concept are sometimes a little too preachy for my liking (i.e. Testimony), the ones where I don't know what it's about are the ones I like best (i.e. "?" my favorite NM record).

[Jester]

I KNOW!

EDIT:  Have any of you read The Pilgrim's Progress?  I never did.  For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

Rarely pay attention to lyrics (unless they eventually stand out as amazing or horrible/cheesy/cringe-worth).  I usually pay attention to the lyrics when the song and melody are so strong that I can't help it.

I really was not paying attention to Neal Morse as of late.  Well, the Neal Morse band, but I've been enjoying Flying Colors.  Didn't hear any of Portnoy's salesmanship on the album.  Just on a music site and clicked on the City of Destruction link and immediately knew I had to hear more.

I'm an absolute sucker for lush vocals mixed with guitars.  The fact that they can all pretty much hold their own on lead vocals (except Portnoy) is all kinds of awesome.

[Jester]

On a tangent, did Neal write everything on the album?

I ask because it has become pretty clear to me that if the vocalist can compose, they usually make the best songwriters.  Even if they are thought of more as a bassist, guitarist, insert instrument, but at least can sing a bit.  Melody is king.

[bosk1]

On a tangent, did Neal write everything on the album?

Not this time.  Or on the last album either.  I mean, he was involved in the final writing of all the songs if I recall.  But the others brought in a lot of ideas.  This current version of the band that has been on the last two albums is active as a band in writing.  Beyond that, I wasn't paying attention to specifically who contributed what.  I know Marc and perhaps others can probably comment in more detail on that.

[hefdaddy42]

Have any of you read The Pilgrim's Progress? 

Yes.

I never did.

You are more fortunate than I.

For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

It will lead to a deeper appreciation of not reading anything.

[NoseofNicko]

For those who have the deluxe edition of TSOAD, are the designs on the cover embossed?

[KevShmev]

On a tangent, did Neal write everything on the album?

I ask because it has become pretty clear to me that if the vocalist can compose, they usually make the best songwriters.  Even if they are thought of more as a bassist, guitarist, insert instrument, but at least can sing a bit.  Melody is king.

Even after watching the "Making Of," it's not clear how much everyone wrote, although I think it's a safe guess that Neal wrote the most.

-Bill Hubauer wrote most of The Ways of a Fool; Neal wrote the lyrics and the part near the end he sings, but Bill wrote the rest.
-The band minus Portnoy wrote what appear to be the main ideas for most of Disc 1 back in January when they were jamming and getting ideas.
-Portnoy wrote the vocal melodies for the verses in Draw the Line; the making of showed Neal listening to Portnoy's demo of humming the melody over the music, and then Neal wrote lyrics to fit Portnoy's melody.

[PROGdrummer]

I KNOW!

EDIT:  Have any of you read The Pilgrim's Progress?  I never did.  For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

I imagine it would be like attempting to read through Dante's Inferno to get a deeper appreciation for Symphony X's Underworld.   

[Kwyjibo]

For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

It will lead to a deeper appreciation of not reading anything.

Sounds like a killer book 

But isn't this supposed to be one of the most important books in christian religion?

[hefdaddy42]

For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

It will lead to a deeper appreciation of not reading anything.

Sounds like a killer book 

But isn't this supposed to be one of the most important books in christian religion?

No.  It's a book by a Christian, full of Christian allegory, but it isn't "in" the religion, any more than any of Neal's solo albums.  The only book "in" the religion is the Bible.

[Kwyjibo]

I should have worded it different, I know it's not "in" the religion.

But according to wikipedia it is "one of the most significant works of religious English literature". And I just made fun of the fact that you found it pretty unreadable.

Anyway back to topic: This is shaping up to be one of the better Neal Morse releases, I quite like it, although I doubt it will top my favorites (One, "?") by him.

And even if this a band effort in writing it still sounds like 99% Neal Morse.

[hefdaddy42]

I should have worded it different, I know it's not "in" the religion.

But according to wikipedia it is "one of the most significant works of religious English literature". And I just made fun of the fact that you found it pretty unreadable.

I should say that I am a Christian, and I know many other Christians who have found it to be a meaningful book.  But I am not one of those people, and I would never ever recommend it to anyone.

[bosk1]

I KNOW!

EDIT:  Have any of you read The Pilgrim's Progress?  I never did.  For those that may have, I am wondering how much it will help the album "click."  Not that it isn't clicking already--I am really digging it.  But if reading it will likely lead to a deeper appreciation, I may have to do that.

I imagine it would be like attempting to read through Dante's Inferno to get a deeper appreciation for Symphony X's Underworld.   

Eh, not really.  Underworld isn't a story, and it isn't strictly based on Inferno.  Having a hodgepodge of different songs that are loosely inspired thematically by a book is not the same as telling a story based on a book.  Underworld is fantastic.  Probably my 2015 album of the year.  But it doesn't leave much to the imagination, and there isn't much going on in any of the songs that is difficult to understand.  TSOAD is a different animal.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The Similitude of a Dream is a tough one to handle, both lyrically and musically. There's a loadcrap of things going on. It grew on me immensely, but I still think it's kinda overlong. The lack of 10+ minute songs is quite refreshing, tho. I've been listening to this album mostly by parts, and it's helping me get a big grasp of it and really digest it.

[KevShmev]

As far as Morsefest 2017 goes, do you guys think he could end up doing a themed night? I'd be down with a night of the epics!

Here is an idea:

Two nights
Skip Lifeline, since that is clearly the weak link of his 9 solo/NMB prog albums, and then each album can take up half a set, with encores from SB or TA.

Night 1:
Set 1: songs from Testimony and One
Set 2: songs from ? and Sola Scriptura
Encore: SB/TA songs

Night 2:
Set 1: songs from T2 and Momentum
Set 2: songs from The Grand Experiment and TSOAD
Encore: SB/TA songs

Night 1
Set 1:
The Land of Beginning Again
California Nights
Break of Day
In the Middle
Storm Before the Calm
Oh, to Feel Him
God's Theme
Author of Confusion
The Separated Man
King Jesus

Set 2:
The Outsider
Sweet Elation
In the Fire
Solid As the Sun
Inside His Presence
The Temple of the Living God
The Door

Encore:
We All Need Some Light
The Light
Solitary Soul
Wind at My Back

Night 2
Set 1:
Mercy Street
Time Changer
The Truth Will Set You Free
It's For You
Supernatural
World Without End

Set 2:
The Call
New Jerusalem
Waterfall
City of Destruction
The Ways of a Fool
So Far Gone
The Main in the Iron Cage
I'm Running
The Mask
Confrontation

Encore:
The Doorway
Stranger in Your Soul

How awesome would that be?

[KevShmev]

I wanted to address this, too...

And even if this a band effort in writing it still sounds like 99% Neal Morse.

I don't mean you here, Kwyjibo, but it seems like some often use that line implying that Neal Morse sounding like Neal Morse is a bad thing, when it's a good thing!  I get that some get aggravated because his prog style is a bit samey, and even I at times wish he would mix up a little more, but, by and large, Neal's style that he has perfected is pretty damn awesome. 

[Kwyjibo]

I didn't mean it in a negative way.

Neal has developed his style and he sticks to it and you know what you get, and what you get is mostly good to great.

What I meant was, that he obviously has a great influence on how this music sounds, no surprise there because it's the NEAL MORSE band. But I think TSOAD could have been written solely by him and it wouldn't sound that much different from what we got now where all band members contributed to the writing.

[KevShmev]

Perhaps, but the presence of the two newer members adds a lot to their overall sound musically, even if you eliminate songwriting from the equation for a minute here.

I think the "usual" Neal stuff is heard in the overture, the finale (the first half of which is very similar in vibe to Crossing Over from T2 or Dancing with Eternal Glory from The Whirlwind) and stuff like Breath of Angels. On the flip side, a song like The Man in the Iron Cage is pretty different for Neal.