Author Topic: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?  (Read 1290 times)

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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2019, 08:07:44 AM »
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2019, 12:21:18 PM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.
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Offline JLa

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2019, 01:52:16 PM »
Soen released their new album "Lotus" a few months ago. I think it's really good, maybe you will too. Here's the track "Martyrs". Try to not skip - there's quite the buildup/climax around 5:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh92nGMaEVg

Offline Stadler

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2019, 02:09:28 PM »
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.

Roxy And Elsewhere is crucial.  (Nugget; if you listen to... I think it's "More Trouble Every Day", and don't think of Genesis, you're not paying attention!)

I'd also add The Dixie Dregs here, though. 

Offline Herrick

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2019, 06:02:18 PM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
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Offline ariich

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2019, 11:45:00 PM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2019, 11:55:47 PM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.

I'd buy that for a dollar.
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2019, 07:27:58 AM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?
Apparently Christianity is a niche religion now.

If only!
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Offline 425

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2019, 06:35:17 PM »
To steer clear of the P/R topic...

The last two NMB albums have definitely both had some heavier material, although the majority of both is still on the rock side of the rock/metal line. The Man in the Iron Cage from The Similitude of a Dream and especially Welcome to the World 2 from The Great Adventure are definitely heavy songs.

I don't really get what Neal's religion is supposed to have to do with his propensity to write heavy music? As I understand it Theocracy is forthrightly Christian and they are definitely a metal band. Also, Neal writing some heavier stuff isn't, like, a totally novel thing. The opening movement of The Conflict from Sola Scriptura is pretty heavy.
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Offline Moor

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2019, 05:23:40 AM »
To steer clear of the P/R topic...

The last two NMB albums have definitely both had some heavier material, although the majority of both is still on the rock side of the rock/metal line. The Man in the Iron Cage from The Similitude of a Dream and especially Welcome to the World 2 from The Great Adventure are definitely heavy songs.

I don't really get what Neal's religion is supposed to have to do with his propensity to write heavy music? As I understand it Theocracy is forthrightly Christian and they are definitely a metal band. Also, Neal writing some heavier stuff isn't, like, a totally novel thing. The opening movement of The Conflict from Sola Scriptura is pretty heavy.

Thank you ... this is exactly how see the NMB.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2019, 05:59:01 AM »
As for the Neal Morse discussion, there's a lot of people who can't separate the man and the artist and if you have someone who believes in something that doesn't exist - whether it's god or the easter bunny and they write songs on this topic, I could see why someone would have a hard time taking it seriously or getting into it. As for me personally it doesn't really bother me if an artist is a religious nut, in the case of NB it's just something I haven't been interested in diving into myself.

As for the topic overall, I don't think this is an issue because most of the time you start with whats popular and then you kinda dive deeper and a lot of the time you find the hidden gems that might even be better than the big names. I don't mean this next part in a hipster way but for me it's almost more exciting once you get to "deep diving"-mode within a genre because it feels even more exciting to find great music that everyone doesn't already know about. It's not about liking things with fewer fans, it's more about the excitement of finding an awesome band that isn't mentioned among the "pioneers" and then sharing that band with other people who didn't know about them.

So yeah happy exploring. :)

Offline cramx3

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2019, 09:22:27 AM »
For me, the fact NM isn't metal is probably why his music hasn't clicked with me as I am not into most prog or prog rock, but I like the heaviness of metal.  Having said that, I don't recall from what I heard of him being religious in the music.  Is that the case?  If not, who cares about his religion? 

Either way, the OP seemed to be wanting prog metal so a lot of these suggestions aren't hitting the mark

Offline Lethean

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2019, 11:45:34 AM »
Here's a great (imo) prog metal recommendation for you - old Sieges Even.  2000's Sieges Even is fantastic and I recommend that too, but if you are specifically looking for crazy complexity, go for the 80s and early 90s stuff.

Offline SwedishGoose

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2019, 01:51:19 PM »
Some great quite unknown swedish progmetal can be found in Vulkan who have released two albums so far and have a third on the way.

More in the line of Tool than DT though....

https://open.spotify.com/album/2QRPQqJtnOmZ7U2OKEfUhL?si=nnUPkcQqRR21UNorzKlchw

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2019, 08:28:25 AM »
5. Neal Morse: try The Similitude of a Dream & The Great Adventure.

Neal Morse is prog metal now? I know Portnoy's drumming with him, but still...that's the least likely thing I thought Neal "Probably trying to start his own cult" Morse would be classified as.

Cult?

Half in jest, but not completely. The religion stuff aside...he has his own label (Radiant). He has the Inner Circle. He has his own music festival (Morsefest). And he has his own streaming service (Waterfall).
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Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2019, 01:48:59 PM »
Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.

And there is your problem. You are not judging music on its own merits. You have made it a competition, comparing the quality of it to Dream Theater. Why does music have to be better or worse than something else? Enjoy each band for what it brings to the table. Enjoy it, not because it is better than DT or in the same ballpark as DT, but because the music, the lyrics, the melodies connect with you. There is a whole expansive universe of music, but if you need to constantly rank it and judge it against the arbitrary baseline of DT, you will miss out on some great stuff.

Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2019, 01:56:54 PM »
Here's a slightly odd recommendation:

Frank Zappa.

Seriously, if it's odd time signatures, strange tunes and virtuoso musicianship (with some of the best guitar soloing you'll ever hear) then you can't beat FZ's discography. Roxy and Elsewhere is a good place to start, as is Zappa In New York.

It's the only thing I've heard that comes close to what I get from DT.

Roxy And Elsewhere is crucial.  (Nugget; if you listen to... I think it's "More Trouble Every Day", and don't think of Genesis, you're not paying attention!)

After diving into the Roxy box set with all the complete shows from which the original live album was drawn from, I don't know if I have use to go back and listen to the original album anymore (though it was cool to hear ZPZ play it in its entirety a few years ago).

I wish they were able to release the full shows for the Zappa In New York anniversary set, but what they assembled was still a great collection and well work picking up (stupid packaging aside).

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2019, 02:10:39 AM »
Everything I'm listening to in the genre I'm comparing with Dream Theater, and it's falling far far short of that high-water mark.

And there is your problem. You are not judging music on its own merits. You have made it a competition, comparing the quality of it to Dream Theater. Why does music have to be better or worse than something else? Enjoy each band for what it brings to the table. Enjoy it, not because it is better than DT or in the same ballpark as DT, but because the music, the lyrics, the melodies connect with you. There is a whole expansive universe of music, but if you need to constantly rank it and judge it against the arbitrary baseline of DT, you will miss out on some great stuff.

Hardly anything's connected with me though. I'm using DT as comparison because they are absolutely perfect, imo. The marriage of complexity and melody is second to none. The only band that I know of that have come close, again imo, are Haken. I want to experience the same thrill I experienced when discovering those bands.
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Offline Tomislav95

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2019, 02:31:09 AM »
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Fates Warning yet, try their latest. Redemption is also cool, probably even more similar to DT.
Maybe you should look in another direction and try with some more unusual progressive rock like dredg, Fair to Midland, Mew and Rishloo. I'm a lot like you, there is something in DT I don't hear in any other music (not even Haken) even though I don't listen to them as much as I used to.
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Offline JLa

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2019, 11:26:43 AM »
Quote from: RoeDent
Hardly anything's connected with me though. I'm using DT as comparison because they are absolutely perfect, imo. The marriage of complexity and melody is second to none. The only band that I know of that have come close, again imo, are Haken. I want to experience the same thrill I experienced when discovering those bands.

Do you know Threshold? More melody and less complexity, but they have some great songs still. It's hard to do recommendations because everybody's taste is different, but I'll give a shoutout to the song "Small Dark Lines".

Evergrey also put out some great stuff in the early 2000's. Their three albums "In Search of Truth", "Recreation Day" and "Inner Circle" has tons of good music on them. Try the song "Rulers of the Mind".

Evergrey are still active but they don't really do prog metal anymore. At least not the last time I checked, but I see they have put out even more stuff recently.  :lol

Offline Pettor

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2019, 01:49:26 PM »
I get you 100%! :) There's no point hearing that there's "much better" bands out there, Dream Theater is the masters of that type of sound. I am not saying there could be something better out there for you, just that if this is the type of sound you like it can be impossible finding something better.

I found love for DT by going from power metal, a genre that many times had prog elements and strong melodic metal songs. DT was the perfect evolution from that and it wasn't because prog was the ultimate genre for me, it was just that DT took element that I love about prog and incorporate them songs varying from epic, emotional, popish etc. It's colorful and comes in all kinds of different well crafted variations :)

Going into DT and loving those elements I naturally thought prog in any shape would be a great match for me. I have browsed through tons of prog bands on progarchives.com as well as recommendations and I like maybe 0.01% of the prog out there. Usually bands like POS, Riverside, Shadow Gallery, Circus Maximus, BTBAM or similar that share elements with DT within prog metal genre. However most other bands is more restricted to certain songs or albums.

In the end I am fine having a band I can't find any replacement for. They have tons of good songs that I never stop caring for. I don't think I will find a better fit in my life. Still there's tons of other bands with great music to listen to!


Some song recommendations as you maybe have a similar taste as me:

Circus Maximus - Architect of Fortune
Circus Maximus - Last Goodbye
Riverside - Egoist Hedonist
Pain of Salvation - Idioglossia
Shadow Gallery - The Archer of Ben Salem
Haken - Puzzle Box
Between The Buried and Me - Lay Your Ghosts to Rest
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:04:18 PM by Pettor »

Offline Cyril

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2019, 01:52:00 PM »
Not prog metal, and not as technical as DT I guess, but Poly-math - House of Wisdom | We Are the Devil is an excellent jazz-prog instrumental record filled to the brim with catchy melodic hooks

Offline Stadler

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2019, 02:23:03 PM »
For me, the fact NM isn't metal is probably why his music hasn't clicked with me as I am not into most prog or prog rock, but I like the heaviness of metal.  Having said that, I don't recall from what I heard of him being religious in the music.  Is that the case?  If not, who cares about his religion? 

Either way, the OP seemed to be wanting prog metal so a lot of these suggestions aren't hitting the mark

Well, Zantera expressed his opinion in a way that implied they were actually fact (the non-existance of God, the "nuttiness" of Neal's religious belief) but notwithstanding that...   Some of Neal's work (Testimony, ?, Sola Scriptura) is more overt than other works (the Transatlantic material, the NMB work), but all has a sort of "spiritual" undertone.  He clearly believes in God and in the power of Christ, and that informs all his music, be it lyrically or in other ways.

For me, who doesn't share the depth of belief that Neal does, I just choose to interpret the lyrics in a manner of "positivity" and so for me it's not an issue.  By no stretch, though, is his work "prog metal".   

Offline 0u81234

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2019, 11:42:09 AM »
Check out Witherfall https://youtu.be/GZudFbJdBp4

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Have I reached peak prog-metal too soon?
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2019, 04:33:50 PM »
For a DT wannabe band try early Circus Maximus. Their last album was a snooze fest imo but the first 2 albums and parts of album 3 are superb.

For prog metal different to DT Id try Tool. Not keen on their debut but Lateralus and Aenima are amazing. Lateralus is a bit more accessible but both great albums if youre prepared to spend time with them. 

Id also try Opeth in the Blackwater Park - Watershed era. Not sure how you feel about death metal vocals, I always hated it but Opeth have a mix of melodic and death metal vocals and I learned to love both. Amorphis are a kind of watered down more accessible version of Opeth but very melodic. I dont know their very early stuff but anything from Eclipse onwards is decent apart from their latest album which I cant get into. Silent Waters was my first album I heard of theirs and its excellent.

Finally Id give early Queensryche a go, especially the three album run from A Rage For Order to Empire. Not all that proggy but there are elements in there and I still consider Operation Mindcrime right up there with Images and Words as one of the best albums of all time.