Author Topic: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)  (Read 22033 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #525 on: January 17, 2024, 04:49:09 PM »
Well, that basically wraps things up.  Thanks to Lethean for co-hosting this with me.  They've already been my favorite band for almost a decade at this point, but going through the process of this has put a nearly insurmountable distance between them and any other would-be contenders like Opeth for me.  Too much quality and consistency over three decades now, with so many very specific elements that appeal to me, that's going to be tremendously difficult for anyone else to top anytime soon. 

I suppose if they come out with another album in the near future we can always resurrect this thread to do a retrospective on it, though I imagine it'd be better to save live thoughts for the standard Katatonia thread and reserve this for when we have at least a little bit of distance and perspective to more properly evaluate it in context.  We arguably don't really have much yet for Sky Void of Stars, but at least there's been almost a year, certainly a bit more than if we'd slogged on and finished this last winter.  Anyway, this has been really fun, and I thank everyone for participating. 

I suppose my new album ranking is:

Dead End Kings
The Great Cold Distance
Sky Void of Stars (1/14/24)
Viva Emptiness
Last Fair Deal Gone Down
Night Is the New Day
The Fall of Hearts
City Burials
Sky Void of Stars (11/x/23)
Discouraged Ones
Tonight's Decision
Brave Murder Day
Dance of December Souls

Yeah, SVoS is on there twice.  It's momentarily rocketed way up, which I don't expect to hold very long, but I wanna ride and document the high while it lasts.  I think if you'd asked me a month after it came out I might have had it above CB and TFoH, but going through the process of reevaluating those has pushed them back up, and I just didn't have quite enough time sunk into SVoS yet then.  The last couple months have really boosted it back up. 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 04:55:06 PM by LithoJazzoSphere »

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #526 on: January 17, 2024, 05:26:50 PM »
BTW, "fun" fact, for some reason Rate Your Music isn't allowing embedding of images anymore, and Imgur has gotten wonky and won't allow me to add images now, so it kind of ruins the art from previous albums, and hopefully the new image hosting site holds. 

Offline nick_z

  • Posts: 3654
  • Gender: Male
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #527 on: January 17, 2024, 05:29:18 PM »
One housekeeping note - we glossed over "Wide Awake In Quietus" (a bonus track from The Fall of Hearts) having a guest guitar solo from Greg Mackintosh of Paradise Lost. 


I still have to catch up with your latest write-ups, but...I did NOT know that  :o

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #528 on: January 18, 2024, 08:07:03 PM »
I'll chime in on both posts soon.  This week has been a combination of busy and winter blah.  Which Katatonia is a good antidote for so I should have visited the forum sooner anyway, I suppose.

Offline billboy73

  • Posts: 368
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #529 on: January 19, 2024, 12:50:58 PM »
I really have enjoyed this thread discussing one of my favorite bands!  Lethean and Litho, thanks for hosting it and keep it moving!  I really enjoyed the writeups on each of the eras/releases.

On Viva Emptiness, I only listen to the remaster at this point.  I haven't listened to the original in years, so the remaster is how I know the songs now.  Definitely an improvement to the original.

I love Sky Void of Stars, and only the new Horrendous album, Ontological Mysterium, edged it out for my favorite album of last year.  I am gonna give it another good listen over the weekend and will post my thoughts early next week.

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: City Burials (2020)
« Reply #530 on: January 19, 2024, 12:57:41 PM »
Ok, Sky Void of Stars is just about ready, but in the meantime I wanted to go over some thoughts on the update of Viva Emptiness that we missed discussing.  We'll get to SVoS in a few days after we see if there's any discussion on this next one. 

[snipped but read in detail]

*"Inside the City of Glass" is easily the song that I find benefits the most from the changes on this version.  In addition to now having vocals as originally intended and being longer, the mix I think benefits the track, since it's one of their most doomy ones since generally veering a bit away from that style starting in the late 90s.  It sounds weightier and more spacious.  My only complaint there is that I did kind of enjoy the spooky whispers in the original verse, which were the only vocals on it, and would have preferred if they kept those in, making the verse longer, but now having more of a build to it.   

*I suppose some people liked the idea of "Inside the City of Glass" being one of the relatively few instrumental songs Katatonia has done, but again, the original version still exists if you want that. 

 

Why not both? :)


I haven't listened to the new version much at all.  It's just one of those things.  I'm happy to own it just for the full version of Inside the City of Glass and Wait Outside, both of which I just added to the original in my library.  So I listen to both versions of Inside the City of Glass whenever I listen to the album.  I get the new vocals and the spooky whispers.

If all they did was that and improve (in their minds) the sound, then I probably wouldn't care what version I listen to.  But messing around with the actual songs is kind of a no go for me.  I get that this is what they wanted and have no problem with them doing it, but for me it's not “my” Viva Emptiness if they're adding, changing, and/or removing parts.  I should probably just look at it as alternate reality Viva Emptiness and an addition rather than a replacement, and maybe at some point I will. 

It's kinda the same with Vapor Trails.  Even I agree that the original Vapor Trails sounds kind of bad (and Viva Emptiness suffers from no such thing), but they also messed with the songs, added some stuff, and made the guitars sound kind of weak to me.  If they were to make the original sound better while being otherwise exactly the same, I'd be all for it.  But it's not, and I accepted the sound of the original pretty much right away because nothing was going to mute my joy for that album - the songs rule.  So the original is what I listen to.

Eventually when I'm bored one day and Katatonia is taking too long between album
Ok, Sky Void of Stars is just about ready, but in the meantime I wanted to go over some thoughts on the update of Viva Emptiness that we missed discussing.  We'll get to SVoS in a few days after we see if there's any discussion on this next one. 

[snipped but read in detail]

*"Inside the City of Glass" is easily the song that I find benefits the most from the changes on this version.  In addition to now having vocals as originally intended and being longer, the mix I think benefits the track, since it's one of their most doomy ones since generally veering a bit away from that style starting in the late 90s.  It sounds weightier and more spacious.  My only complaint there is that I did kind of enjoy the spooky whispers in the original verse, which were the only vocals on it, and would have preferred if they kept those in, making the verse longer, but now having more of a build to it.   

*I suppose some people liked the idea of "Inside the City of Glass" being one of the relatively few instrumental songs Katatonia has done, but again, the original version still exists if you want that. 

 

Why not both? :)


I haven't listened to the new version much at all.  It's just one of those things.  I'm happy to own it just for the full version of Inside the City of Glass and Wait Outside, both of which I just added to the original in my library.  So I listen to both versions of Inside the City of Glass whenever I listen to the album.  I get the new vocals and the spooky whispers.

If all they did was that and improve (in their minds) the sound, then I probably wouldn't care what version I listen to.  But messing around with the actual songs is kind of a no go for me.  I get that this is what they wanted and have no problem with them doing it, but for me it's not “my” Viva Emptiness if they're adding, changing, and/or removing parts.  I should probably just look at it as alternate reality Viva Emptiness and an addition rather than a replacement, and maybe at some point I will. 

It's kinda the same with Vapor Trails.  Even I agree that the original Vapor Trails sounds kind of bad (and Viva Emptiness suffers from no such thing), but they also messed with the songs, added some stuff, and made the guitars sound kind of weak to me.  If they were to make the original sound better while being otherwise exactly the same, I'd be all for it.  But it's not, and I accepted the sound of the original pretty much right away because nothing was going to mute my joy for that album - the songs rule.  So the original is what I listen to.

Eventually, I will give the alternate reality Viva Emptiness another try and will try to be open minded about it.  And I'll definitely come back to this post when I do.


Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)
« Reply #531 on: February 04, 2024, 07:45:14 PM »
Some lyrics that I like from Sky Void of Stars:

Austerity
You say that woe is always on your mind
You drag me back in for a breath of comfort
No longer telling wrong from right
The ghostlike horizon of your eye

I hear things aren't well
Since you sold me out
I remember you clear
Your rituals of doubt
With city lights from 1988
Sprinkled like dust
On your window pane

Colossal Shade
Satellite star
My future watching me
Transmitting scars
My future watching me

Opaline
My words are bouncing off the ground
I see them all around

Recall the red sun burning
Over the avenues and into our view
Radiance that signified
Magnified
Divergent hue

I see the last day turning
Straight into emptiness
How did it get so late

Gliding
Weightless
Through the vapour
Off the map and into loss
No more wisdom here to gather
No more boundaries to cross

I had a futile dream
It rose from loving you
But the debt has broken my back
There's no need to retaliate
As your train has left our track

Drab Moon
Pale beats the heart of this bystander
Shutting down, fog on lens
A drab moon
To match my lowering standards
Suspended in deceptive light
Blind and reckless towards my own condition
Memorized the endless city
Woe to you my suspicion
Always there to say goodbye but come again

Author
Feel the future
Sift through your days
In your palace of wretched steel
See my absence as something good
Grant your eyes a little rest
Turn your face towards your fortune
See my absence as something good

Author of scars
I see your hands upon my epitaph
Then you shift into a looking glass
A sky void of stars

Touch the concrete
Placed on my chest
Chain the songbirds to your argent dome
Confirm my fate as disposable
Grant your eyes a little rest
Turn your face towards your fortune
Keep your promises negotiable

It's shaking
My trembling howl
It's breaking
Overtaking

Creator of flaws
I know you will be the last to laugh
Then you shift into a looking glass
A sky void of stars

Impermanence
Even if we try
We can't live forever
I gave you my shards of sky
But we can barely see the reflection
We'll just live to see the essence die

I remember well the contradictions
How you turned your face towards the city lights
And the shadow fell behind

Sclera
Meet up at dusk
Out on the tracks
Quietly stare with poisoned eyes

There's nothing quite like time to tell how it is

Atrium
We sing to the night
Abolishing the promise
Our constellation is so far from reach
(I touched your ember with a little bit of my wing) <- I love this line so much
I'm fading from your sky
The shutdown is complete
You turned away despite my loving

No Beacon to Illuminate Our Fall
That star used to shine
But it fell below the line
Dropped under my eyes
Thrown to the old shade
And shall never live again

In the parlour of dusk, inception of suspense
Channeling words to trouble the quiet
Surrender into the dark spread of a wing
It's visible now how our past freedom turns to dust

Approaching our departure
No solace in our call
Scattered across the skyline
No beacon to illuminate our fall

No dreaming back to everlasting light

I arm my dead mind
With the final reason
Will sell it to the lowest bidder
My final reason

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Katatonia Discography Discussion: Sky Void of Stars (2023)
« Reply #532 on: February 04, 2024, 09:21:58 PM »
Ok, so.  First I'll say that I just got done listening with Litho's notes in front of me and it was a lot of fun.  Especially with Opaline because of the amount of commentary.

Surprise surprise, I'm sure, but I think Sky Void of Stars is awesome.  To me it really continues the astonishing (:)) run they've had, from Viva Emptiness to now.  It also, like their other recent(ish) albums, doesn't seem to lose that new album feel very quickly.  It still feels really new to me (and so does City Burials).  I feel like I might like it slightly less than City Burials and The Fall of Hearts, but even though it's been out for a year, it's still new and that could change.

The album cover is definitely one of my favorites; it's beautiful and kind of dark but there's some light as well.

Some non-technical thoughts about the songs.

Austerity - Starting the album off strong.  I think I've said before that I find some of Jonas' vocal melodies to be a little different and take some getting used to, and they did here.  Once they get locked in, I'm good, and I feel like I know this song so well from when they released it as a single, seeing it live, hearing it with the album of course, and then live again.

Colossal Shade - Wow do I love this song.  I don't know what it is about it; maybe the atmosphere which just seems to surround you.  Also, even though there may seem to be nothing special going on, I really liked the part from 1:03 to around 1:28 on the album, but then when I heard it live it was chilling.  It sounded so heavy and chilling and ominous and I'm sure the lighting helped and the band seems larger than life on the stage and it kind of makes you hold your breath.

Opaline - And I love this one too.  It's quite different for Katatonia but it's also so very Katatonia, if that makes any sense.  The back to back of Colossal Shade and Opaline is one of my favorite things about the album.  Both songs individually kind of leave me feeling euphoric or giddy, and together it's even better.  And Opaline is one of their tracks that make me feel like I'm soaring above the ground.  It deserves the accolades from Litho.

Birds - I guess it is about time they used Birds as a title.  :) I'm not sure what the numbers here mean. (Litho did you come across anyone asking about that in an interview)?  But it's really cool live when Jonas is singing that part and Roger does the “follow the birds” line.

Drab Moon - Another one that I like the atmosphere to.  I like the electronic effects on Jonas' vocals - they don't last very long but I think they fit really well with that part of the song.

Author - Definitely a grower for me, and now I might think it's one of the best but I'm getting to have too many favorites.  (A nice problem to have.)  The lyrics, maybe along with No Beacon, are my favorite on the album.  I also thought it was awesome to hear live but I wonder if the band disagrees because they seemed to drop it early in the US tour.

Impermanence - this track was another grower for me.  It was fine at first but maybe not one of the stronger tracks for me, but I think I just needed time to absorb it.  I like Joel Ekelof in Soen, and I think his vocals worked really well with Jonas' here.

Sclera - Maybe a hidden gem?  I don't think I've heard it talked about as much as most of the other songs, but maybe it quietly lies in wait for you to take notice.  I like it more each time I listen to it.

Atrium - My first reaction to the single was my usual “it's fine, maybe not my favorite.”  And now I completely love this song.  I always smile as soon as it begins.  And that chorus is so good.

No Beacon to Illuminate Our Fall - I think this is my favorite song on the album.  It's like a mini journey.  I feel like I'm going somewhere.  I love the whole song, and *definitely* second Litho's thoughts on the transition from heavy to mellow where he highlighted it.  A part that I'll highlight is around 1:22.  The guitar riff is… I think it gives me a sense of wonder.  And the drums are cool.  And Jonas' vocals are poignant and perfect.  And speaking of transitions, I like how it goes into the “I arm my dead mind” part.  And then towards the end, the guitar solo 4:22 ish is so beautiful and dreamlike, or maybe it's when the vocals that come in at 4:58 that's dreamy and for me it translates back to the guitar solo, but whatever it is it's perfect. 

Absconder - this is once again an awesome bonus track.  And it also has a good closing track feel, which is nice since I always listen to it with the rest of the album. 

I agree with Litho that the bass sounds good on the album and there are some great solos.  Also, once again Jonas sounds great - he's brought his emotions and melodies to the table once again. 

Roger continues to be the perfect counterpart to Anders that I didn't even realize I needed.  His style is more technical and with dashes of blues/shred that I wouldn't have expected to work with their sound, but somehow fits in perfectly. 
I couldn't agree with this more. And I thought the same; I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I wanted it in songs like Passer, but I quickly changed my mind.  It doesn't detract from their sound, it blends into it, it fits, and it adds another dimension that sounds like it's always been there.


Quote
*"Colossal Shade" feels like it would have fit just as well/ever better? on City Burials.  And the section at 2:29 reminds me of another song or riff of theirs, but it's completely escaping me which one it might be. 
I'm not sure if it is.  Nothing jumps out, so maybe it's just that it's so them that it feels familiar.

Quote
*People sometimes complain about "Opaline"'s chorus being essentially two notes, but I consider it a testament to their creativity how they can milk so much out of them.  "Forsaker" for Night Is the New Day immediately comes to mind as another song with a note-minimalistic melody that is highly effective in spite of it.  The layers of production, instrument orchestration of parts, rhythmic variety, and mixing on "Opaline" keep evolving so it's never the same for very long.  The backing vocals also subtly shift throughout the song to give the melody a different feel.  If you listen closely at the repeat at 4:06 you can hear a whole series of countermelodies going on in the backing vocals emphasizing different harmonies, and then of course the melody variation ending the song.  I'm kind of astounded at the minutiae I still pick up on in what is a relatively simple song, possibly 100+ listens in at this point. 
If people think that (bolded), they're silly. :)  Also, Forsaker, as I've said before, is one of my favorites, and that melody is so so so good.  I remember the first time I really paid attention to the song and I was mesmerized and the last thing I was thinking about was how many notes it had.  I'm quoting the rest of the paragraph just cuz.  I agree and everyone in this thread should go back and listen if they haven't already. :)


Quote
*I really love how effortlessly they transition between heavy and mellower moments, arguably better than say, Opeth does.  For example, the ascending chromatic riff at 2:46 in "No Beacon To Illuminate Our Fall" reminds me a bit of a heavier version Alice In Chains' "Them Bones", with the Slayer-esque whammy dive bombs on top of it and Moilanen gradually increasing the subdivisions of the bass drum hits to a frenzy (also a bit like Tool's "The Grudge").  But then it seamlessly segues into a delightful mellower section with the electric piano and pseudo-jazzy clean guitar octave lines.
I think they're better at this than anyone.

Quote
*The main troubling issue is that Anders hasn't been touring with them for Sky Void of Stars.  He stopped in early '23 before the album came out.  No one seems to have any solid information why, just that he's dealing with some family issues.  Often they're just playing with Roger and backing tracks for additional guitar parts, though sometimes Per Eriksson (who played on Dead End Kings) fills in.  Some are saying some of Moilanen's parts are also being piped in on the backing tracks. 

*The weird thing is that Anders has done some shows with Bloodbath in the past year, but not Katatonia.  And Jonas is no longer touring with Bloodbath.  There is all kinds of speculation online, but who knows what's really going on.  There are some US dates for Katatonia and Bloodbath just a few days apart coming up in May, which would be the best shot at more interesting developments. 
I think it could be anything since they aren't saying anything.  It could be that he feels able to do Bloodbath because it's not that many shows, allowing him to play some but be mostly at home.  That doesn't explain why Jonas isn't doing the Bloodbath shows though, unless they just decided to divide and conquer.  I hope it's not a rift between them, but of course I also hope that Anders or one of his family members isn't ill or something.  It's impossible to know so I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Quote
*They've done a number of surprise shows where because some venues are requiring at least three bands to be on the bill, Katatonia has played the entirety of Dead End Kings under the name "Concrete Skies" as an opening act for GosT, and then closing with their normal show. 
As far as I know, they only did this at one show, unless it was done after the US tour.  But I don't think they've had many shows since then.