THE Iron Maiden Thread

[Outcrier]

They record lead and rhythm guitars but in live shows, there isn't the latter obviously, just bass.

[NotePad]

They record lead and rhythm guitars but in live shows, there isn't the latter obviously, just bass.

Do you mean this is how most bands do it? Like, say, does Adam Jones record 2 guitar tracks for a song, like maybe a solo with another track for rhythm guitar behind it? But live it's only one guitar part is being played? This seems like it could result in a live performance lesser in quality.

I'm asking because I'm sure this happens with lots of bands, but i bet a lot do it differently. I saw the Judas Priest guys talking about how they liked having the 2 guitarists because if one of them does a solo, the bottom is still there and it's still a fuller sound. I wonder if there are any 1 guitarist bands that have a prerecording of a rhythm guitar track playing in the background in live shows. That sounds really lame, but i wonder. I hate prerecording's like that. Even small things, like when i watch Helloween play something like If I Could Fly, and you can hear the obvious prerecording of the piano part. It's just lame.

[sneakyblueberry]

They record lead and rhythm guitars but in live shows, there isn't the latter obviously, just bass.

Do you mean this is how most bands do it? Like, say, does Adam Jones record 2 guitar tracks for a song, like maybe a solo with another track for rhythm guitar behind it? But live it's only one guitar part is being played? This seems like it could result in a live performance lesser in quality.

Pretty much.

In the studio you can have an insane amount of guitar overdubs, so there really is no limit.  I remember reading somewhere that Hetfield overdubbed a rhythm guitar 7 times to try and get it heavy (it doesn't really work like that). 

Its entirely possible for a band with one guitarist to play along with backing tracks with rhythm guitar to help out, but usually if there's one guitarist, they'll just solo and let the band fill things out.  If you have a good guitarist who knows how to use technology (i.e delays, reverbs or even loops) then usually the lack of rhythm guitar underneath is not noticable.  The guitarist from Post Rock band Russian Circles uses live looping a lot.  Bands like Green Day and Muse (don't quote me on that) have touring members to fill out rhythm parts.

[ariich]

They record lead and rhythm guitars but in live shows, there isn't the latter obviously, just bass.

Do you mean this is how most bands do it? Like, say, does Adam Jones record 2 guitar tracks for a song, like maybe a solo with another track for rhythm guitar behind it? But live it's only one guitar part is being played? This seems like it could result in a live performance lesser in quality.

I'm asking because I'm sure this happens with lots of bands, but i bet a lot do it differently. I saw the Judas Priest guys talking about how they liked having the 2 guitarists because if one of them does a solo, the bottom is still there and it's still a fuller sound. I wonder if there are any 1 guitarist bands that have a prerecording of a rhythm guitar track playing in the background in live shows. That sounds really lame, but i wonder. I hate prerecording's like that. Even small things, like when i watch Helloween play something like If I Could Fly, and you can hear the obvious prerecording of the piano part. It's just lame.

Yeah, pretty much all bands multi-track their parts. Maiden did even when they only had 2 guitarists, they're just able to better replicate that stuff live now that they have 3.

[NotePad]

When listening to music I often try to pin point these things.

Sometimes I never can tell where the bass guitar is. I'd like to understand more about how the bass guitar is used. Some bands I really can't hear where the bass is, and all i can single out are the guitar tracks not the bass. In some bands it seems the bass guitar is more to add depth to the sound and just make things more full, like they're just kinda imitation the guitar player or whoever's playing rhythm. Tool is a band where the bass sounds like a main component in their music, not just playing rhythm all the time, and is more out front. Justin Chancellor is a great player. He's the most underrated bass player. In other bands i can rarely point out the bass guitar. I don't listen to Motley Crue too much, but i remember when i found out that Nikki Sixx was their bass player. I was surprised because he is very well known, way more then Mick Mars is. I should listen to some Crue and pay attention to Nikki Sixx and see how noticeable he is on their records. He is their main songwriter, so i'd expect him to be very loud in the mix.

And does Maiden really need 3 guitarists? Have they ever addressed the reason why they chose to keep all 3 in the band?

[sneakyblueberry]

One of the things that bothers me about Maiden post reunion is the lack of creativity with the 3 guitarists.  Brave New World was the blueprint, with songs like Blood Brothers, the title track and Ghost of the Navigator utilising 3 guitar parts so brilliantly.  It sort of died away after that, and I can't name any other moments where I think 'this is awesome use of 3 guitars'.

Don't even get me started on the songs where 2 guitarist double up on the same melody line.  Ugh.  Someone should follow the bass.  At least H has some stellar moments where he'll chuck in another harmony line.  Live versions of Phantom of the Opera, The Trooper for example. 

[sneakyblueberry]

And does Maiden really need 3 guitarists? Have they ever addressed the reason why they chose to keep all 3 in the band?

They dont really and thats what bothers me.  They have the capacity to do some amazing shit, for example pulling out Flash of the Blade (the guitar harmonies in there are out of control!) or Alexander the Great.  They could also beef up rhythm sections of some songs by getting one of the guitarists to play along with Steve, but ultimately the guitarists just end up doubling up on each other and muddying shit up.  Granted there are a couple of exceptions, but it seems they are few and far between.

[Outcrier]

And does Maiden really need 3 guitarists? Have they ever addressed the reason why they chose to keep all 3 in the band?

They dont really and thats what bothers me.  They have the capacity to do some amazing shit, for example pulling out Flash of the Blade (the guitar harmonies in there are out of control!) or Alexander the Great.  They could also beef up rhythm sections of some songs by getting one of the guitarists to play along with Steve, but ultimately the guitarists just end up doubling up on each other and muddying shit up.  Granted there are a couple of exceptions, but it seems they are few and far between.

 

[RodrigoAltaf]

I dare say that they kept Gers because he's been friends with Bruce for a long time - Bruce brought him to the band when H left. And yeah, the three guitars thing falls short on a bunch of occasions. Flash of the Blade live would KILL!

[cramx3]

I dare say that they kept Gers because he's been friends with Bruce for a long time - Bruce brought him to the band when H left. And yeah, the three guitars thing falls short on a bunch of occasions. Flash of the Blade live would KILL!

Yea, the use of three guitarist was more of a personal choice for the members than a musical choice.  I believe wouldn't rejoin unless Adrian came back and at that point I don't think they wanted to kick Gers out, just would have felt wrong since he had been in the band for like 10 years at that point and was friends with Bruce.  I know a lot of people are down on Gers, but I think he adds a lot to the band so Im glad they kept him and were able to let Adrian back in.

[TAC]

Steve didn't want to let Jannick go. I don't think it really had anything to do with Bruce, other than the fact that Adrian was playing with him.

Jannick brings incredible chemistry/glue to he band. You can see how much Dave loves playing with him. I'll never forget the No Prayer tour. It seemed like Dave's personality was really unleashed. He always smiling, I know, but I could feel the joy from him emitting from the stage.

[cramx3]

He always smiling, I know, but I could feel the joy from him emitting from the stage.

I cant talk about that from the older tours, but I've seen IM a few times from the first few rows and the smiling and joy from Dave is really something that I love about IM.  It's so awesome and something you don't always see from a band, that they are so happy to be playing. 

[bosk1]

^All that.  Well...at least, from the DVD's I've seen.  I haven't actually seen them in person.  But anyway, yeah, but the only thing I would add is that they ALL seem to be having the time of their lives every show.  Dave is perhaps the most obvious about it since he is always smiling, but really, every single one of them acts like they love every minute of every show.

[cramx3]

^All that.  Well...at least, from the DVD's I've seen.  I haven't actually seen them in person.  But anyway, yeah, but the only thing I would add is that they ALL seem to be having the time of their lives every show.  Dave is perhaps the most obvious about it since he is always smiling, but really, every single one of them acts like they love every minute of every show.

True, but its hard to explain until you see it live up close.  The smiles these guys have goes further than the music.  You cant help but feel euphoric watching them play.

[wolfking]

I think it came from both sides, the band didn't want to let Janick go and Bruce only wanted to rejoin if Adrian rejoined too.

I have no problem with three guitarists.  Sure they don't utilise what they have properly but who cares.  The big thing is, is that it's expanded the songwriting with the reunion albums and has given them more variety.

[rickhawk80]

The three guitarists are fine, but I can tell you that live Janick is like the biggest dork ever the way he prances and skips around stage and kicks his leg up on the top of amps next to him.  Just totally dorky behavior -- but if he wants to let his freak flag fly and the guys are having fun, who am I to say it doesn't look very bad ass?   

[RodrigoAltaf]

The three guitarists are fine, but I can tell you that live Janick is like the biggest dork ever the way he prances and skips around stage and kicks his leg up on the top of amps next to him.  Just totally dorky behavior -- but if he wants to let his freak flag fly and the guys are having fun, who am I to say it doesn't look very bad ass?   

 I'd be fine with the dorky moves if it didn't compromise his playing...he oftens opts for doing goofy things with his guitar instead if playing better solos. He ruined Moonchild when they brought it back ti the setlist in '08, but now Adrian is doing it, which totally rescues the song, at least for me.

[NotePad]

They all seem very active on stage. Never been to a live show, but i'v watched the DVDs and such. Bruce is pretty much the best possible vocalist they could have gotten. Blaze seems to have a totally different person and style when live onstage. Doesn't have Bruce's energy. Blaze is more like most metal singers. Bruce is above them when it comes to live performances.

All band members careers were leading up to Brave New World and everything after, because since then they been writing the best stuff they'v ever done.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Blaze was very active on stage with his previous band Wolfsbane, but between joining Maiden and the release of X Factor he had a motorbike accident which ruined his knees. So he can't run that muvh anymore.

[NotePad]

I don't know if this has been discussed somewhere in this thread yet, but does anyone notice how out of tune Blaze sings on the chorus of Man On The Edge? I'm talking obviously about the studio version. It's so blatantly obvious and ruins the whole vibe of the song. It really takes me out of the song every time. As a side note, i always thought the song was called Falling Down, but i just looked it up. I'v always thought the song was pretty good other then that off note part. But i do think writing a song based on a Michael Douglas movie is really fuckin lame.

[wolfking]

Blaze is off pitch in quite a few places on the album.  Not sure the exact reasons behind some of the choices of vocal takes.  Blaze performed a few of these songs better live IMO than on the album.

[NotePad]

So I'v been giving Final Frontier another chance. At first I found it disappointing. But now it's growing on me.

Last listen, I realized that musically it is like a continuation of what they were doing on AMOLAD. Especially FFs second half of songs. There is definitely nothing new for maiden on this recording.  Not that that is a bad thing, and not that they aren't capable of innovation, as BNW and DoD demonstrate. But some of the lyrics are boring, because they're just waaaay too typical of them. Not all, but lots.

[wolfking]

Final Frontier was the Maiden album that took the longest to grow, and by a long mile actually compared to the rest.

[Konrad]

The Talisman and Starblind are really, really great.

[Outcrier]

Blaze is off pitch in quite a few places on the album. Not sure the exact reasons behind some of the choices of vocal takes.  Blaze performed a few of these songs better live IMO than on the album.

It never bothered me too much

[TAC]

So I'v been giving Final Frontier another chance. At first I found it disappointing. But now it's growing on me.

Last listen, I realized that musically it is like a continuation of what they were doing on AMOLAD. Especially FFs second half of songs. 

That's just it. I think from BNW to DOD to AMOLAD, each album was a distinct step up, with AMOLAD quite possibly the best of the band's career. I remember thinking how they would ever top it. With TFF, I find it on par with AMOLAD, but slightly easier on the ears.

[wolfking]

Blaze is off pitch in quite a few places on the album. Not sure the exact reasons behind some of the choices of vocal takes.  Blaze performed a few of these songs better live IMO than on the album.

It never bothered me too much

Me either.

[NotePad]

I think BNW was one of maiden's best. IMHO DoD didn't surpass it, but it certainly wasn't any worse. I find it to be very much a continuation of what they were doing on BNW. AMOLAD saw the band progressing as songwriters into a certain direction. I love it. AMOLAD and BNW are their best imo. FF was not a progression from the previous one, but still very good. I have to give it more time.

I must admit, I'd love another album similar to BNW. Paschendale's popularity led them to making albums full of Paschendale's!

But what I love about BNW was, well, everything! Listening to it now, what i find refreshing is the lack of songs about war and soldiers and stories like that ;p Well, i don't think there were any. Except Nomad- a great song of course!

[cramx3]

BNW is one of my favorite sounding albums.  I love the way the guitars sound, specifically the clean guitars.  I listened to the Nomad on my way into work this morning. 

[NotePad]

BNW is one of my favorite sounding albums.  I love the way the guitars sound, specifically the clean guitars.  I listened to the Nomad on my way into work this morning. 

Me too. I'd say it's my favorite Iron Maiden album. The last 2 CDs have that raw, live in studio sound, which I really liked. But BNW was just crisp and perfect for it's music and the reunion of the best metal band.

I'd like to see the next album more like BNW. AMOLAD and FF are really good, but i think it would have been better if they had the same production/mix sound as BNW and DoD. And The Thin Line is one of my favorites, ever. Lately they seem to be too wrapped up in war themes and epic stories. I'd like to see them tone back on that, and get more personal with their lyrics and themes.

[rickhawk80]

BNW is one of my favorite sounding albums.  I love the way the guitars sound, specifically the clean guitars.  I listened to the Nomad on my way into work this morning. 

Me too. I'd say it's my favorite Iron Maiden album. The last 2 CDs have that raw, live in studio sound, which I really liked. But BNW was just crisp and perfect for it's music and the reunion of the best metal band.

I'd like to see the next album more like BNW. AMOLAD and FF are really good, but i think it would have been better if they had the same production/mix sound as BNW and DoD. And The Thin Line is one of my favorites, ever. Lately they seem to be too wrapped up in war themes and epic stories. I'd like to see them tone back on that, and get more personal with their lyrics and themes.

Not my all-time favorite, but my favorite of the second Bruce era.

[NotePad]

You know, I would have to say I enjoy their music a lot more in this '2nd Bruce era' a lot more then I enjoyed the music before he left. Maybe cuz BNW was the first IM album i got into, and the earlier stuff has a different 'something' about it. You know what i mean. I also really love the Blaze stuff, probably more then most of the earlier albums before Blaze. I also got in through Maiden through the Blaze stuff. I'd say about 60% Blaze, 40% Bruce, the stuff i first got into. I know, I'm an odd one. I really really enjoyed Virtual X1.

[Outcrier]

I always liked X Factor and Virtual XI too but my favorites are Somewhere in Time and Powerslave.
Iron Maiden and Killers are very good.
Seventh Son and Brave New World are nice.
Number and Piece i like a couple of songs.
DoD, Amolad and TFF i never cared too much about them.
No Prayer and Fear, i don't like them.

It used to be like this but i don't listen to metal too much nowadays.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I've been a Maiden fan since they came to the first Rock in Rio in 1985 - Powerslave was the first metal album I ever got. So I can't stand most of the Blaze-era output, and could live without Gers being in the band.

[NotePad]

What they've been doing since BNW strikes me a being quite different then what they did earlier, before X Factor. Most of what they write these days are long and epic songs. They have some shorter rockers, but for the most part they're not. Like i said earlier, they started this in XFactor.

So i can see how someone could not like the newer stuff. They used to be more on par with Priest but now they'v gone in a much more progressive direction.