Albums you changed your mind about

[dualpalmpilots]

Every fan has their favorite Dream Theater records they go back to year after year, but there are some albums a lot of us enjoy less or enjoy more with time.

I have enjoyed Octavarium less with time. I got into Dream Theater shortly after Train of Thought was released and listened to Live at Budokan religiously. I was going to love whatever they made next. At the time, I enjoyed the novelty of the prevalent influence of U2 on "I Walk Beside You" or Muse on "Never Enough." Those songs don't really do it for me anymore. And "The Answer Lies Within" has always been a skip for me. There are truly top tier moments on the record (title track, These Walls) but I don't come back to this one as much anymore.

Weirdly enough, the album I didn't get into as much when I went through their back catalogue was SFAM. Now, I listen to it all the time. I can't even pinpoint what turned me off about it back then, but I love it now.

What about you?

[WilliamMunny]

Hm. Interesting idea for a thread.

DT? I'd say the albums I loved, I only love more, but there are a fair number where my lukewarm initial impressions (here's looking at you, Systematic Chaos) hardened into general disinterest (save for a few key tracks).

Outside of DT, there are a number of examples.

The one that immediately comes to mind is Radiohead's Kid A. I spent a decade scratching my head only to now consider a masterpiece.

Radiohead, as a band, is actually interesting. My passive fandom in the early nineties slowly, over the course of the past 35 years, has turned into a borderline obsession.

[Revenge319]

When I did my first ever marathon of Dream Theater's albums in 2017, Awake and Falling Into were both albums I was initially a little disappointed with (only in comparison to the rest of the discography), but nowadays I find a lot to enjoy on both albums even if they still rank on the lower end of my DT album rankings.

[Dream Team]

Awake and Train of Thought have aged poorly for me. There isn't really one that has risen dramatically, but the debut and the self-titled seem a little better every time I listen.

[voncorn]

Scenes from a Memory wasn't the first DT album I heard, but it was definitely the first one that I really latched onto and put me on the track of becoming an obsessed DT fan. Tons of fond personal memories are attached to the album as well.

Nowadays, I almost never feel like putting it on, not because I think it hasn't aged well or anything, I just listened to it way too much.

[Progmaniac1988]

Hmmm, I'd say the albums that were my favs stayed my favs (SFAM, SDOIT, TOT, Octavarium, and I&W) Those have been my favs for Decades.

But 2 albums I used to think were weaker albums that I LOVE and listen to often now are,
Systematic Chaos and FII, are the two that I absolutely love now! I listen to one of those albums atleast once a week top to bottom now.

And as a bonus,
The Astonishing I find myself going back to more now too. It's not a perfect start to finish experience for me, but it has some incredible orchestration and moments. James really shines too.

[Misirlou]

Octavarium got quite less enjoyable for me, personally, since I found out that a few songs off here are Muse clones (I heard DT before Muse), and apart from that, I´ve also come to realize DT has much better ballads on other albums, the two that are here are pretty weak. Root of All Evil, Panic Attack, and the title track are still absolute killers though.

Strangely, three of the songs that contain the power ballad-esque stuff they did in the 90s , Another Day, Surrounded and Innocence Faded, have  grown on me inmensely. I had thought of them as too cheesy and the keyboard sound as dated, but now I really enjoy all three. LaBrie fucking soars on them.

[dualpalmpilots]

Awake and Train of Thought have aged poorly for me. There isn't really one that has risen dramatically, but the debut and the self-titled seem a little better every time I listen.

Train of Thought and Awake get better for me every time, but I definitely agree with you on the ST. I thought the ST was merely a nice album when it dropped. I have a greater appreciation for what's going on with it melodically.

[macneil]

Systematic Chaos used to be an album I didn't care for, but I've come to realise it's a pretty fun album with a lot of great stuff that doesn't take itself too seriously.

Conversely Black Clouds was an album I was obsessed with early on in to my DT fandom, but I've come to realise it's a pretty inconsistent album. I might occasionally put on Nightmare to Remember or The Count of Tuscany, but otherwise I don't find myself seeking it out much anymore.

A Dramatic Turn of Events is another album that I used to rate lower, but it's aged really well for me and I rate as their best album not in the amazing run from Images to Octavarium.

[ReaperKK]

I got into DT right after SDOIT was release and most albums I've grown to like and appreciate more and more as the years go on but here are some albums I've really changed my mind on:

Awake - I loved this album when I first discovered it which was shortly after getting into DT. I don't know but over time it's become one of my least liked albums, off the top of my head it would now be a bottom tier album. 6:00 isn't that great, SDV is overrated (which is probably the DT song I've most changed my mind), Lie is good but the lyrics are bad. The brights are still bright though, Lifting Shadows and Scarred are great tunes. The A Mind Beside Itself suite is pretty damn good too

Falling Into Infinity - I was pretty lukewarm on this album but within the last 5 years or so I've really grown to love it. Great production, great playing and some really outside the box songwriting (for DT). The weak spots here are still New Millennium and Just Let Me Breathe, plus special shout out to Doug Pinnick for putting his awful vocals on Lines which is an otherwise amazing song. Unlike Awake this is a top 5 album for me now.

Octavarium - I think I really forced myself to like this album as it was the second album to be released after becoming a fan. I don't hate or love the record but I almost never listen to it. It's really inconsistent and while the high points are really high, those moments are rare.

The Astonishing - I hated this album when it was released but after some spins I've grown to like parts of it. I'll never love it, it's far too long and bloated of a record IMO, but there are some really fresh ideas here and with a great edit this would be a killer record. Our New World is one of the best songs DT has released in the last 20 years.

[Cool Chris]

Scenes from a Memory....Nowadays, I almost never feel like putting it on, not because I think it hasn't aged well or anything, I just listened to it way too much.

This is where I'm at. It came out at a bad time in my life, and I spent many a night with the headphones on in the dark lost in the world of Victoria and the brothers. Then I got the Live Scenes DVD and played that a ton. I rarely have any desire to listen to either and haven't for years.

Every other album I've been pretty consistent on through the years.

[pg1067]

Not an album as a whole, but (60% of) disc 1 of SDOIT.

My recollection is that I listened to disc 2 first because the idea of a 42 minute suite like that was incredibly appealing, and they delivered beyond any expectation.

For whatever reason, disc 1 didn't click for me for many years.  I then watched a misheard lyrics video on YouTube that featured the bridge before the instrumental section in Blind Faith, and I thought, "what is this?!"  I still think TGD is a disaster, and Disappear is a snoozefest, but the rest of the songs are masterful.

[TAC]

Honestly, none of their albums have really changed all that much since my initial feelings.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Honestly, none of their albums have really changed all that much since my initial feelings.

This is where I'm at too. Awake has sunk a little for me but otherwise my first impressions stand

[Stadler]

Hm. Interesting idea for a thread.

DT? I'd say the albums I loved, I only love more, but there are a fair number where my lukewarm initial impressions (here's looking at you, Systematic Chaos) hardened into general disinterest (save for a few key tracks).

Outside of DT, there are a number of examples.

The one that immediately comes to mind is Radiohead's Kid A. I spent a decade scratching my head only to now consider a masterpiece.

Radiohead, as a band, is actually interesting. My passive fandom in the early nineties slowly, over the course of the past 35 years, has turned into a borderline obsession.

Our musical tastes are remarkably similar, but in case anyone ever gets the "well, I've never actually seen WilliamMunny and Stadler in the same place at the same time..." feelings, this will set them straight.

I went the other way; I bought OK Computer, and thought "there's promise here".  I bought Kid A and thought, what the fuck, but maybe I have to give it time, like The Lamb or Topographic Oceans... then I got Hail To The Thief on eBay and I was like "there's not enough time in the world".  It was a special edition or some shit, with packaging and I think I listed it for $0.25 with free shipping, allowing offers, just to get rid of it.

As for DT, some albums ebb and flow - Falling Into Infinity, Systematic Chaos - but I can't think of anything that has markedly changed. Or flipped from one side to the other. Songs, maybe, but not albums.

[WilliamMunny]

Our musical tastes are remarkably similar, but in case anyone ever gets the "well, I've never actually seen WilliamMunny and Stadler in the same place at the same time..." feelings, this will set them straight.

I went the other way; I bought OK Computer, and thought "there's promise here".  I bought Kid A and thought, what the fuck, but maybe I have to give it time, like The Lamb or Topographic Oceans... then I got Hail To The Thief on eBay and I was like "there's not enough time in the world".  It was a special edition or some shit, with packaging and I think I listed it for $0.25 with free shipping, allowing offers, just to get rid of it.

As for DT, some albums ebb and flow - Falling Into Infinity, Systematic Chaos - but I can't think of anything that has markedly changed. Or flipped from one side to the other. Songs, maybe, but not albums.

I totally get what you are saying. I had a similar lukewarm reaction to Hail to the Thief (it's clearly a career low in my opinion), so it definitely made it that much harder to understand what was going on with the band. One headscratcher is one thing, but when a band starts stacking them together (here's looking at you Smashing Pumpkins), it can really kill your fandom.

I think, at least for me, I'm willing to check in with a band long past that point, especially if they resonated with me at one point in time. Usually, if they've lost me, they've lost me, but everyone now and then, a band does something that just takes my breath away.

With Radiohead, it was In Rainbows. That release stopped me in my tracks, exceeded all expectations, and remains a cherished album to this day. And, unlike some other 'all times,' I am STILL giving In Rainbows routine spins. When a band hits you that hard, you suddenly find yourself way more open to reappraising their work.

And then there's a band like KISS, where I've pretty much been unapologetically 'all in' from day one.

Oh, and Tales totally took me a minute to click as well. The concept sounded so much more interesting than the execution, but after a dozen or so listens, it clicked, and now it's a top-tier Yes release in my book.

You ever find yourself in Cleveland, make sure to look me up!

[hefdaddy42]

I definitely like Falling Into Infinity a lot more now than I did when it was released.

[MetropolisWatches]

Systematic Chaos has aged remarkably well, and certainly has its own unique identity in the overall DT discography.

[dualpalmpilots]

I definitely like Falling Into Infinity a lot more now than I did when it was released.

Were people concerned FII signaled a directional change for the band? I feel like it fits much better in the discography now, but at the time I imagine it might have been more disappointing.

[hefdaddy42]

Were people concerned FII signaled a directional change for the band? I feel like it fits much better in the discography now, but at the time I imagine it might have been more disappointing.

For a lot of us, it was INCREDIBLY disappointing at the time.

[Cool Chris]

For a lot of us, it was INCREDIBLY disappointing at the time.

This. And in retrospect, based on what they've been able to accomplish since then, it's even more disappointing.

[bosk1]

Were people concerned FII signaled a directional change for the band? I feel like it fits much better in the discography now, but at the time I imagine it might have been more disappointing.

I think that was the case for a lot of people, based on what people have commented through the years.  For me, I wasn't actively following them during that era.  After I&W, I kind of lost track of them for quite awhile.  I didn't buy Awake and FII until after I bought SFAM.  So since I had SFAM already once I got FII, I couldn't really view FII as a directional change, or at least not a permanent one.  But it was still disappointing and felt out of place. 

[TAC]

Were people concerned FII signaled a directional change for the band?

Extremely concerned!

[bosk1]

Extremely concerned!

Tim, has your opinion of it changed any through the years?  I know mine has.  I still don't rank it that highly in the DT discography overall.  But I do still enjoy it as an album, much more than I did initially.  But there's definitely a separation in how I view various songs.  There are some really stellar songs (Lines in the Sand, Take Away My Pain, Trial of Tears, and Peruvian Skies), some decent-to-solid ones (New Millennium, Just Let Me Breathe, Anna Lee), and some at the very bottom of the discog (the rest).  But I can more easily enjoy the ones I enjoy, and thus enjoy the album as a whole more now.

[dualpalmpilots]

Bosk, that's where I'm at with the record. It's not among my favorites, but I love about half the songs and appreciate them as much as any of the "classics". But I don't think I could've heard it that way if I'd been following the band since I&W or something and this was their newest, long gestating offering.

[wolfking]

I've been vocal about it recently but AVFTTOTW.  Hated it for a good couple of years.  About a year ago I tried it again and something slightly stuck and I found myself spinning it more and more.  I still didn't love it, but it ended up opening up with something that just made me reach for it more and more.  There was a time I was listening to it every day.  I spin it now regularly and surprisingly has become a bit of a DT go to album.  I don't think I've ever had such a 180 on any album in my life like this one that I can recall.  I'm still shocked by the turn around. 

Don't ask me where I'd rank it though, I still haven't thought that far, but it's definitely climbed the last year.

[Misirlou]

I've been vocal about it recently but AVFTTOTW.  Hated it for a good couple of years.  About a year ago I tried it again and something slightly stuck and I found myself spinning it more and more.  I still didn't love it, but it ended up opening up with something that just made me reach for it more and more.  There was a time I was listening to it every day.  I spin it now regularly and surprisingly has become a bit of a DT go to album.  I don't think I've ever had such a 180 on any album in my life like this one that I can recall.  I'm still shocked by the turn around. 

Don't ask me where I'd rank it though, I still haven't thought that far, but it's definitely climbed the last year.

I do like the fact that there´s no ballads in the record. Not that I don´t love a good ballad (Bend the Clock is my favorite Parasomnia song), but I do love how relentless AVFTTOTW is.

[Northern Lion]

Honestly, none of their albums have really changed all that much since my initial feelings.

I'm in the same boat.  My opinion hasn't ever soured on any album of theirs.  There are certainly albums that I like more and certain songs I don't really care for, but my over all opinion on any given album was formed within the first few months listening to it, and that opinion never really changed.

What has changed for me, in some cases, is my opinion on certain songs, such as Lost, Not Forgotten.  I didn't care for it all that much, even though I found it technically impressive, and so never listened to it very often.  Then one day, it just "clicked" and I have loved it ever since.  There are several songs where that has happened over the years.

[wolfking]

I do like the fact that there´s no ballads in the record. Not that I don´t love a good ballad (Bend the Clock is my favorite Parasomnia song), but I do love how relentless AVFTTOTW is.

That's an interesting word to describe it.  Can't say I'm on board with it.  I really don't find it all that heavy and there's nothing fast or really in your face.  I actually find the whole thing breathes well and easy to listen to.  I'd say it's more consistent in sound across the board.

[TAC]

Tim, has your opinion of it changed any through the years?  I know mine has.  I still don't rank it that highly in the DT discography overall.  But I do still enjoy it as an album, much more than I did initially.  But there's definitely a separation in how I view various songs.  There are some really stellar songs (Lines in the Sand, Take Away My Pain, Trial of Tears, and Peruvian Skies), some decent-to-solid ones (New Millennium, Just Let Me Breathe, Anna Lee), and some at the very bottom of the discog (the rest).  But I can more easily enjoy the ones I enjoy, and thus enjoy the album as a whole more now.

Sorry, I meant to respond to this the other day..

My opinion hasn't changed. My opinions on any of their albums haven't changed honestly.
Regarding FII, it's always been a three song album for me. Lines In The Sand, Trial Of Tears (two of their very best), and Peruvian Skies.
Hell's Kitchen is certainly harmless, and pulling it out of BMS was a great move.

I understand what they were doing with TAMP and HY, but do we really need TWO songs like that here?

BMS, JLMB, and YNM are all really dumbed down compared to the previous two albums. Not even in the same stratosphere.

[wolfking]

Sorry, I meant to respond to this the other day..

My opinion hasn't changed. My opinions on any of their albums haven't changed honestly.
Regarding FII, it's always been a three song album for me. Lines In The Sand, Trial Of Tears (two of their very best), and Peruvian Skies.
Hell's Kitchen is certainly harmless, and pulling it out of BMS was a great move.

I understand what they were doing with TAMP and HY, but do we really need TWO songs like that here?

BMS, JLMB, and YNM are all really dumbed down compared to the previous two albums. Not even in the same stratosphere.

I imagine this album would have been quite a letdown in real time.  I've always been lukewarm on it and I probably would have been so disappointment if living this album in real time after the previous two.

[Misirlou]

I'll always defend Falling Into Infinity for several reasons:

- It's Myung 's best album, for sure. Apart from experimenting with the Chapman stick, he's extremely audible in the mix, lays some of his grooviest basslines, and even overshadows Petrucci at some points. That's how strong the bass work is on this album.

- Derek Sherinian killed it too, the other MVP of the album. He added color to the tracks in a more technical way than Moore did, but more restrained than Rudess. He could be a more supporting player (You Not Me), or go nuts too (Just Let me Breathe).

- The bookends are fantastic: New Millennium might be their weirdest opener ever. It's a mix of Alice in Chains and Rush. It's trippy as shit, and I love it, whereas Trial of Tears is a masterpiece.

- Lines in the Sand has my favorite Petrucci solo ever. The guitar is literally crying.

[WilliamMunny]

@ Wolfking–You and I have the same thoughts on AVFTTOTW. I actually listen to it a quite a bit, but I'm not sure it's even a top-10 DT album for me.

This may be a slight departure, but I feel like it fits this conversation.

There are a couple of albums where the actions or revelations about the artist involved changed my opinion.

For many years, I considered Matthew Good's Lights of Endangered Species my favorite, all-time album.

The Canadian singer-songwriter had struck upon something magical with that release–a potent fusion of jazz, post-rock, and chamber pop combined with some of the best vocals and lyrics I've ever heard. That album was a consistent go-to for nearly a decade.

Then...the allegations (and I mean, a truckload of allegations) surfaced regarding predatory behavior with underage female fans. The details are simply a google search away, but while criminal charges were never brought, the man's lyrics suddenly took on a whole new light.

I dunno, I hear anyone who says, "you need to separate the art from the artist." I agree, to a degree, but when it comes to your favorite all-time album, finding out the artist in question is, at the very least, a despicable person, really hampers the enjoyment.

I honestly haven't been able to listen to the album in years. Sure, I could rationalize (and have) myself into acceptance (I mean, I LOVE Kiss, so I'm certainly capable of compartmentalizing my personal views when it comes to musicians), but this one just hit me different. So, um, yeah, that's a good example of an album where my opinion has changed rather significantly.

[dualpalmpilots]

I might go make this same thread over in the general music forum. Maybe broaden it to include artists, albums, and even songs. There are some songs that have some really strong memories associated with them that I can't even listen to anymore without getting down in the dumps.

[TAC]

There are certainly albums that I like more and certain songs I don't really care for, but my over all opinion on any given album was formed within the first few months listening to it, and that opinion never really changed.

What has changed for me, in some cases, is my opinion on certain songs...

Agreed!