Longevity of Band

[Max Kuehnau]

A section of Home also has the same time signature as PBD.

yeah, 19/16. It's near the end.  The way MM uses it during PBD is very different though. Harder to play too (although not obviously so)

[nikatapi]

I would think the band would go for about 10 more years, hoping they are all healthy first of all.
JR would be in his mid-70s by then, and i'm pretty sure it would be very difficult to tour so extensively despite being in good shape.

I also think that MP returning was a sign of the guys feeling that they reach the end of the line so they wanted a "last chapter" with the most successful (and for many OG) lineup.

In any case, i'm grateful for the output that they've had and the inspiration that they gave to so many people through the years.

It would be better for them to stop in a relative high point than keep on going putting out mediocre albums and having their performances suffer.

[Max Kuehnau]

which is why they should have stepped down after View IMHO. No way to top it.

[Max Kuehnau]

I would love to hear that for myself to understand the context and tone of his statement. Do you remember which podcast?

That would be really disheartening if part of all this was that MM wrecked the Great John Petrucci's or Jordan Rudess' brain too much with unconventional time signatures (though I'm not sure that's really it because if this is referring to PBD, it's something they heard MM play at soundcheck and then presumably wanted to use since it went on the record).

yeah but that wouldn't be too unlikely IMHO

[TAC]

I would love to hear that for myself to understand the context and tone of his statement. Do you remember which podcast?

Same here.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

yeah but that wouldn't be too unlikely IMHO

yeah but that wouldn't be too unlikely IMHO

I dunno. I think the comment which we don't have access to anymore is probably just a nothing burger given he and John are the primary song writers and have dictated the compositions rather than the other way around.

[Schurftkut]

it's on his youtubechannel look for a bit longer video posted a year ago

[Max Kuehnau]

I dunno. I think the comment which we don't have access to anymore is probably just a nothing burger given he and John are the primary song writers and have dictated the compositions rather than the other way around.

yeah it's slightly moot to jump to conclusions here

[Progmaniac1988]

What other bigger reasons? Just as with bringing MP back, they wanted JR just as they had in 1994. When it became apparent that they had such great chemistry with him during the LTE albums and he was now agreeable to joining the band, that's what sealed the deal. Had that not happened, Derek would have continued in the band. It's as simple as that.

In quite a few interviews JP voiced how he had growing frustrations with Derek's flamboyant dress style, like you said they always wanted Jordan, and the band has said in interviews that they felt they needed Jordan's chemistry with JP and MP to kind of "save the band". So in a weird way Derek was only there because Jordan could not be at the time. With Mangini there was no mention of any reasons why they felt he was a bad fit or anything. They simply felt like it was time for MP to come back. Maybe more information will come, but it Derek's dismissal seemed to be for overall chemistry reasons. 🤷

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

One thing that sticks out to me is this Mike Portnoy interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWwIbYsuV8

Go to the 7:50 mark where Mike starts talking about the 2 most important records in the bands history. No surprise he mentions I&W and SFRAM.

The key quotations are that these 2 records were made 'at pivotal times' and 'in both cases we were coming off a very troubling times for the band that almost broke the band up, so both of those albums were do or die - so important for us - and I feel like we knocked it out of the park...and I feel a very similar feeling to this latest album. I think anytime you make an album with a new lineup change you feel invigorated and refreshed and I think I&W and SFRAM felt very inspired by the lineup change and I think you could say the same about the new album we're making right now'

Interesting he didn't include ADTOE among the records that sounded 'invigorated and refreshed'  after a new lineup change and 'were made in pivotal moments' but that's not my point.

(Superfluous disclaimer: opinion and interpretation below)

Why do I think this is an interesting statement? Why is he comparing Parasomnia to the two critical albums that were made on the back of a do-or-die moment (his words - not mine) where the band needed to 'knock it out of the park'?   

It indicates to me that the band was in trouble - I think mainly commercial trouble - and if that is true, it would surprise no one here because we have long talked about View and DreamSonic having been box office duds. Obviously these days you can just look at the Ticketmaster seating chart to see how shows are doing.

It would be really bizarre to make this comparison the way he did had View slayed everyone, Tour From the Top of the World made it rain, and DreamSonic been a smash box office hit. So to me it indicates the band was in some sort of trouble, which at this point in time appears to be far in the rear view mirror. What was the trouble? I think they needed to do something big to ensure the band could carry on with the vision and expectations they had for the future. My musical tragedy is that the thing they needed to do to secure their relevance and longevity for years to come is the very thing I fear will cause them to regress sonically.

Obviously MP needed to make things right with everyone on a personal level but aside from that, I believe the thing that opened the door for this entire reunion wasn't a dissatisfaction over the chemistry with Mike Mangini. It was the need for a positive catalyst in that moment that would change the trajectory of Dream Theater.

[Setlist Scotty]

In quite a few interviews JP voiced how he had growing frustrations with Derek's flamboyant dress style, like you said they always wanted Jordan, and the band has said in interviews that they felt they needed Jordan's chemistry with JP and MP to kind of "save the band". So in a weird way Derek was only there because Jordan could not be at the time. With Mangini there was no mention of any reasons why they felt he was a bad fit or anything. They simply felt like it was time for MP to come back. Maybe more information will come, but it Derek's dismissal seemed to be for overall chemistry reasons. 🤷

I don't remember JP every voicing frustrations over Derek's way of dress or anything like that - highly unlikely given the very scripted way he likes to handle controversy and "dirt" regarding the band. You're probably thinking more of what MP mentioned in a few interviews after he was replaced by JR.

But my point still stands: had JR not been willing to join the band in 1999, Derek would have continued to have been their keyboardist, at least for the time being. Maybe they would have had Derek tone down the flamboyant stuff (which only started in 1997), but musically they were doing fine. Same thing with bringing MP back to the fold.

In both cases there was someone else they felt more connected to that they want to bring (back) into the band, and in both cases, those guys were willing to (re)join the band, so the band made the lineup change.

[cminor]

I would love to hear that for myself to understand the context and tone of his statement. Do you remember which podcast?

Same here.

Jordan mentioned it in the interview with MP back in 2021.

Youtube link with timestamp: Note On With Jordan Rudess & Mike Portnoy March 12, 2021

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Same here.


Jordan mentioned it in the interview with MP back in 2021.

Youtube link with timestamp: Note On With Jordan Rudess & Mike Portnoy March 12, 2021

Thanks for sending this! I didn't realize this was done with MP years ago. Shows that as good as someone like Jordan is, you put a totally different elite musician in his company and he still has things he has to work on and learn.

[EvantheMotel6Owmer]

I predict they go on for about ten more years. End off on a solid 50.

[Schurftkut]

Same here.


Jordan mentioned it in the interview with MP back in 2021.

Youtube link with timestamp: Note On With Jordan Rudess & Mike Portnoy March 12, 2021

yeah that's the interview i referred to

[TAC]

Same here.


Jordan mentioned it in the interview with MP back in 2021.

Youtube link with timestamp: Note On With Jordan Rudess & Mike Portnoy March 12, 2021

Thank you.

[Progmaniac1988]

I don't remember JP every voicing frustrations over Derek's way of dress or anything like that - highly unlikely given the very scripted way he likes to handle controversy and "dirt" regarding the band. You're probably thinking more of what MP mentioned in a few interviews after he was replaced by JR.

But my point still stands: had JR not been willing to join the band in 1999, Derek would have continued to have been their keyboardist, at least for the time being. Maybe they would have had Derek tone down the flamboyant stuff (which only started in 1997), but musically they were doing fine. Same thing with bringing MP back to the fold.

In both cases there was someone else they felt more connected to that they want to bring (back) into the band, and in both cases, those guys were willing to (re)join the band, so the band made the lineup change.

It's mentioned in the autobiography how JP felt about certain things about Derek after he "officially" joined. Apparently he held back a bit with certain things when he was not an official member, and after he officially joined the band he showed some personality trates that the band weren't so thrilled about. You'd have to read it. JP is pretty respectful the way he says things, but he basically said he and MP both felt they wanted Jordan to replace DS. Either way, I'm not a member of DT and no one here is either. So we can't say EXACTLY what happened. All I know is personally the DS member change feels different than MM. I don't think anyone in DT had an issue with anything MM was doing. If they did they hid it well. They just wanted MP back and unfortunately that means MM had to go. With DS they clearly stated a few things they weren't crazy about. They clearly wanted JR from the get go and once he was available DS was gone. All the detail don't really matter. I can't see Derek fitting into current DT. It's farther away from his style now imo. With MM he'd fit right back in at any time. I just don't think that will happen at this point 40 years into their career, and I sincerely hope this current line up lasts till they retire, but who am I to say anything? Thats just my feelings on it.

But yeah who knows what would have happened if JR never joined. DT would be very different I'd say. JR I feel had a big staple in many albums.

[Dedalus]

But yeah who knows what would have happened if JR never joined. DT would be very different I'd say. JR I feel had a big staple in many albums.

His arrival changed everything.

For me, the three biggest impacts of the lineup changes are:

1. James in.
2. Kevin out.
3. Jordan in.

Of course, the change from MP to MM had a huge impact on the fans' feelings, the band's management, the production being left with only JP and the drumming style. Unquestionable. But I still think that the three moments listed above are the most crucial in dictating DT's sound changes.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Tonight proves they've got at least two more decades in the tank

[JiM-Xtreme]

Tonight proves they've got at least two more decades in the tank

Came here to post something similar... not sure about "at least two decades" but a good number of years left certainly! The band seems totally rejuvenated and ready to go for it once more...

[brakkum]

Tonight proves they've got at least two more decades in the tank

It was pretty surprisingly honestly. James started rough but got a lot better over the night. But instrumentally it was batshit crazy how good they were.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

It was pretty surprisingly honestly. James started rough but got a lot better over the night. But instrumentally it was batshit crazy how good they were.

i just knew it

[Stadler]

I would love to hear that for myself to understand the context and tone of his statement. Do you remember which podcast?

That would be really disheartening if part of all this was that MM wrecked the Great John Petrucci's or Jordan Rudess' brain too much with unconventional time signatures (though I'm not sure that's really it because if this is referring to PBD, it's something they heard MM play at soundcheck and then presumably wanted to use since it went on the record).

Why is it disheartening?  I'm not going to quote your follow-up (the one where you talk about DT being "in trouble" because Mike compared the new album to I&W and SFAM), because of space, but with respect, it seems really clear, to me anyway, that you are desperately searching for a way to justify the Mangini years and not make this recent change about him or any dissatisfaction with him.

And I'll say again: you're not in the room with them.  I am lucky enough to be friends with several smart, attractive, successful women, but for whatever reason they just don't do it for me, personally. I've worked with several great, well-managed, successful companies, but the culture is just not for me. I've driven several excellent, well-made, high-quality cars that I'll never buy.  I've listened to a number of very very talented, creative bands that just don't put out music that I 'go to'.  I've lived in a number of wonderful, affordable places with great amenities and services, but I just like living in the Northeast. Do I have to go on?   

None of what I'm writing is a dis- to Mike Mangini. There's no QUESTION he's a talented drummer. But I just think that there was a sweet spot, and for reasons that the rest of us may never, ever know, this was the better fit.  Who knows?  We could find out in three years time that they've changed over the years and it's no longer what it was.  Who knows? Humans are an irrational, unpredictable lot. 

I scanned some of the reviews on Facebook last night though, and one stood out to me above all else, and FOR ME (don't expect anyone else to agree) one was all I need to know: paraphrasing, but "they looked like they were having a blast on stage together".   Everything else is gravy, to me. DT was always a "fun" band for me, and that seemed to be lost a bit in the last ten years.  If it's back, I for one can't be happier, regardless of what "time signature" the music is in.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Why is it disheartening?  I'm not going to quote your follow-up (the one where you talk about DT being "in trouble" because Mike compared the new album to I&W and SFAM), because of space, but with respect, it seems really clear, to me anyway, that you are desperately searching for a way to justify the Mangini years and not make this recent change about him or any dissatisfaction with him.

And I'll say again: you're not in the room with them.  I am lucky enough to be friends with several smart, attractive, successful women, but for whatever reason they just don't do it for me, personally. I've worked with several great, well-managed, successful companies, but the culture is just not for me. I've driven several excellent, well-made, high-quality cars that I'll never buy.  I've listened to a number of very very talented, creative bands that just don't put out music that I 'go to'.  I've lived in a number of wonderful, affordable places with great amenities and services, but I just like living in the Northeast. Do I have to go on?   

None of what I'm writing is a dis- to Mike Mangini. There's no QUESTION he's a talented drummer. But I just think that there was a sweet spot, and for reasons that the rest of us may never, ever know, this was the better fit.  Who knows?  We could find out in three years time that they've changed over the years and it's no longer what it was.  Who knows? Humans are an irrational, unpredictable lot. 

I scanned some of the reviews on Facebook last night though, and one stood out to me above all else, and FOR ME (don't expect anyone else to agree) one was all I need to know: paraphrasing, but "they looked like they were having a blast on stage together".   Everything else is gravy, to me. DT was always a "fun" band for me, and that seemed to be lost a bit in the last ten years.  If it's back, I for one can't be happier, regardless of what "time signature" the music is in.

Why is it disheartening?  I'm not going to quote your follow-up (the one where you talk about DT being "in trouble" because Mike compared the new album to I&W and SFAM), because of space, but with respect, it seems really clear, to me anyway, that you are desperately searching for a way to justify the Mangini years and not make this recent change about him or any dissatisfaction with him.

And I'll say again: you're not in the room with them.  I am lucky enough to be friends with several smart, attractive, successful women, but for whatever reason they just don't do it for me, personally. I've worked with several great, well-managed, successful companies, but the culture is just not for me. I've driven several excellent, well-made, high-quality cars that I'll never buy.  I've listened to a number of very very talented, creative bands that just don't put out music that I 'go to'.  I've lived in a number of wonderful, affordable places with great amenities and services, but I just like living in the Northeast. Do I have to go on?   

None of what I'm writing is a dis- to Mike Mangini. There's no QUESTION he's a talented drummer. But I just think that there was a sweet spot, and for reasons that the rest of us may never, ever know, this was the better fit.  Who knows?  We could find out in three years time that they've changed over the years and it's no longer what it was.  Who knows? Humans are an irrational, unpredictable lot. 

I scanned some of the reviews on Facebook last night though, and one stood out to me above all else, and FOR ME (don't expect anyone else to agree) one was all I need to know: paraphrasing, but "they looked like they were having a blast on stage together".   Everything else is gravy, to me. DT was always a "fun" band for me, and that seemed to be lost a bit in the last ten years.  If it's back, I for one can't be happier, regardless of what "time signature" the music is in.

After I posted that I watched the episode which is available on YT and I don't make anything of it. They were just chatting about processing odd time signatures. Obviously if this were an issue they wouldn't have given Mangini more and more songwriting responsibility in near linear fashion.

I think last nights show put another exclamation point under the reasons as I understand them: family members posting themselves crying from happiness on IG, explosive trajectory altering ticket sales. The time signatures thing is a nothing burger but was cool to hear that JR is still learning things even at his crazy advanced level.

[Stadler]

After I posted that I watched the episode which is available on YT and I don't make anything of it. They were just chatting about processing odd time signatures. Obviously if this were an issue they wouldn't have given Mangini more and more songwriting responsibility in near linear fashion.

I think last nights show put another exclamation point under the reasons as I understand them: family members posting themselves crying from happiness on IG, explosive trajectory altering ticket sales. The time signatures thing is a nothing burger but was cool to hear that JR is still learning things even at his crazy advanced level.

With the proviso that I know nothing more than you do, and everything else remains the same, I think this is probably the closest to the truth in terms of the dynamics.

[joevaicci]

Looking at like 10-15 years from now, I am afraid our guys are just too proud (they've earned that though) to slightly slow down the tempo of their faster tracks, or tune them down a tone to accomodate James. It honors them that they want to provide the best they can and that might end up being the reason they stop while they are still on top of their game. I just hope when the time comes they instead decide to do less shows with more time inbetween gigs, although that might be logistically tough and not as sensible financially. Other bands do that though...