Follow up albums that equalled or topped a landmark album

[King Postwhore]

Hard no. Best 2 Sammy eras are 5150 and Ballance. 

[WilliamMunny]

Miles Davis

– In a Silent Way (1969)
– Bitches Brew (1970)

[Trav86]

While some may argue about content, purely in terms of sales, I am *shocked* that Def Leppard with Hysteria following up Pyromania hasn't been listed by anyone. I'd also think that Bon Jovi's New Jersey was a very good followup to Slippery When Wet.

I got you…

Def Leppard Hysteria > Pyromania
Van Halen 5150 = 1984
Rush A Farewell to Kings > 2112

THIS ONE I'll buy into.   I'd vote for Rock and Roll Over >> Destroyer too.

Again, though, we're sort of straining credibility with the label "landmark album".

Do you mean calling Destroyer a "landmark" album?  I mean...it is one for them. I was thinking of it that way, as in landmark albums for those individual bands. But in general, yeah I would agree, it's stretching lol.

[Stadler]

While some may argue about content, purely in terms of sales, I am *shocked* that Def Leppard with Hysteria following up Pyromania hasn't been listed by anyone. I'd also think that Bon Jovi's New Jersey was a very good followup to Slippery When Wet.

I got you…

Def Leppard Hysteria > Pyromania
Van Halen 5150 = 1984
Rush A Farewell to Kings > 2112

THIS ONE I'll buy into.   I'd vote for Rock and Roll Over >> Destroyer too.

Again, though, we're sort of straining credibility with the label "landmark album".

Do you mean calling Destroyer a "landmark" album?  I mean...it is one for them. I was thinking of it that way, as in landmark albums for those individual bands. But in general, yeah I would agree, it's stretching lol.

Oh, I'm just playing along.  "Destroyer" is NOT a landmark album (though I'd argue that Kiss Alive! was) except for the band themselves.

[TAC]

If we’re not counting Alive, then yes, Destroyer is Kiss’ landmark album.
They were still playing 4 or 5 of the 9 tracks live right up until the end.

[EPICVIEW]

I won this thread  !!!   :  )

[ZKX-2099]

City of Evil > Waking the Fallen
Weathered > Human Clay
Use Your Illusion (either) > Appetite

[Stadler]

City of Evil > Waking the Fallen
Weathered > Human Clay
Use Your Illusion (either) > Appetite

That's an interesting take.

[TAC]

Use Your Illusion (either) > Appetite

That's an interesting take.

As classic as Appetite is, I always thought the UYI albums were on a whole nuther level. From Day 1.

[Stadler]

Use Your Illusion (either) > Appetite

That's an interesting take.

As classic as Appetite is, I always thought the UYI albums were on a whole nuther level. From Day 1.

Fair enough; for me I thought Appetite was the better ALBUM, but UYI had the better SONGS, if that makes sense.   I just never got into the angry fuck-you version of Axl ("Get In The Ring").   I think if you took the best 12 songs - or maybe the best hour - from UYI it would slay Appetite.     

[TAC]

Use Your Illusion (either) > Appetite

That's an interesting take.

As classic as Appetite is, I always thought the UYI albums were on a whole nuther level. From Day 1.

Fair enough; for me I thought Appetite was the better ALBUM, but UYI had the better SONGS, if that makes sense.   I just never got into the angry fuck-you version of Axl ("Get In The Ring").  I think if you took the best 12 songs - or maybe the best hour - from UYI it would slay Appetite.  

Oh yes, definitely. I agree. I just felt the songwriting, playing, and production all improved greatly over Appetite. Appetite is still this magic moment caught in time, and while the Illusion albums had some...filler, there's at least a dozen phenomenal tracks. It's really a shame that this would really be all they contributed. This was a great band, but their run was so short.

[ZKX-2099]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

[TAC]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

Z, I guess people either like it or they don't, but experiencing it in real time, here's what I would say.

It came out in the summer of '87 and hair metal was really kicking into high gear. Like grunge would feel like an answer to hair metal a few years later, Appetite, to me, felt like it did just that right in the middle of the whole movement. It stuck out immediately as authentic and....unpredictable. There was a strength to the songs and the playing that also stood out. They weren't formulaic hair metal anthems. They were street level rehashed Aerosmith, yet it sounded fresh. I actually saw them on their short East Coast club tour in October of '87, and they were legit.

In the end, they were really an enigma, as the Illusion albums would be released 4 years later, and then after a 2-3 year tour, they were finished. Perhaps it was the band's early death that enhances their short run, similar to how we feel about Burton/Cobain/Rhoads.

But they were just different...and better.

[ZKX-2099]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

Z, I guess people either like it or they don't, but experiencing it in real time, here's what I would say.

It came out in the summer of '87 and hair metal was really kicking into high gear. Like grunge would feel like an answer to hair metal a few years later, Appetite, to me, felt like it did just that right in the middle of the whole movement. It stuck out immediately as authentic and....unpredictable. There was a strength to the songs and the playing that also stood out. They weren't formulaic hair metal anthems. They were street level rehashed Aerosmith, yet it sounded fresh. I actually saw them on their short East Coast club tour in October of '87, and they were legit.

In the end, they were really an enigma, as the Illusion albums would be released 4 years later, and then after a 2-3 year tour, they were finished. Perhaps it was the band's early death that enhances their short run, similar to how we feel about Burton/Cobain/Rhoads.

But they were just different...and better.

That's kinda how I feel about City of Evil, but instead of glam it was nu metal.

[TAC]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

Z, I guess people either like it or they don't, but experiencing it in real time, here's what I would say.

It came out in the summer of '87 and hair metal was really kicking into high gear. Like grunge would feel like an answer to hair metal a few years later, Appetite, to me, felt like it did just that right in the middle of the whole movement. It stuck out immediately as authentic and....unpredictable. There was a strength to the songs and the playing that also stood out. They weren't formulaic hair metal anthems. They were street level rehashed Aerosmith, yet it sounded fresh. I actually saw them on their short East Coast club tour in October of '87, and they were legit.

In the end, they were really an enigma, as the Illusion albums would be released 4 years later, and then after a 2-3 year tour, they were finished. Perhaps it was the band's early death that enhances their short run, similar to how we feel about Burton/Cobain/Rhoads.

But they were just different...and better.

That's kinda how I feel about City of Evil, but instead of glam it was nu metal.

I'm not an expert on City Of Evil, or where that stands in A7X's catalog, but imagine if the band folded not long after. It would get even more romanticized, and I think to some degree, GnR benefits from that. They're still legit.

[HOF]

I'm not really a GNR fan, but I can recognize the appeal in what they were doing when they were doing it. And I do think there are some really good songs on the Illusion albums (November Rain has always been a favorite, and it's borderline prog). There was definitely talent in that band, but I also think there was a big image factor to their popularity and sort of legendary status (not just their looks, but also just that kind of bad dude rep that Axl had). Not saying they didn't earn it on the strength of their songs, but there were extra curricular factors as well.

[TAC]

I'm not really a GNR fan, but I can recognize the appeal in what they were doing when they were doing it. And I do think there are some really good songs on the Illusion albums (November Rain has always been a favorite, and it's borderline prog). There was definitely talent in that band, but I also think there was a big image factor to their popularity and sort of legendary status (not just their looks, but also just that kind of bad dude rep that Axl had). Not saying they didn't earn it on the strength of their songs, but there were extra curricular factors as well.

Well, sure they had an image, but it still came off as more authentic than say, Faster Pussycat or a hundred other bands.

[HOF]

I'm not really a GNR fan, but I can recognize the appeal in what they were doing when they were doing it. And I do think there are some really good songs on the Illusion albums (November Rain has always been a favorite, and it's borderline prog). There was definitely talent in that band, but I also think there was a big image factor to their popularity and sort of legendary status (not just their looks, but also just that kind of bad dude rep that Axl had). Not saying they didn't earn it on the strength of their songs, but there were extra curricular factors as well.

Well, sure they had an image, but it still came off as more authentic than say, Faster Pussycat or a hundred other bands.

Yeah, just saying if you were to listen to Appetite in a vacuum, you might not appreciate everything that went into the band and that album being such a big deal.

[TAC]

I'm not really a GNR fan, but I can recognize the appeal in what they were doing when they were doing it. And I do think there are some really good songs on the Illusion albums (November Rain has always been a favorite, and it's borderline prog). There was definitely talent in that band, but I also think there was a big image factor to their popularity and sort of legendary status (not just their looks, but also just that kind of bad dude rep that Axl had). Not saying they didn't earn it on the strength of their songs, but there were extra curricular factors as well.

Well, sure they had an image, but it still came off as more authentic than say, Faster Pussycat or a hundred other bands.

Yeah, just saying if you were to listen to Appetite in a vacuum, you might not appreciate everything that went into the band and that album being such a big deal.

I think you can say that about a lot of albums, and I'm looking at Nevermind.

And I try not to do the "you had to be there" thing, but I do try and convey how I was feeling at the time. Regardless of image and look, the music on Appetite stood apart from what was going on at the time.

[nick_z]

I'm not really a GNR fan, but I can recognize the appeal in what they were doing when they were doing it. And I do think there are some really good songs on the Illusion albums (November Rain has always been a favorite, and it's borderline prog). There was definitely talent in that band, but I also think there was a big image factor to their popularity and sort of legendary status (not just their looks, but also just that kind of bad dude rep that Axl had). Not saying they didn't earn it on the strength of their songs, but there were extra curricular factors as well.

Well, sure they had an image, but it still came off as more authentic than say, Faster Pussycat or a hundred other bands.

Yeah, just saying if you were to listen to Appetite in a vacuum, you might not appreciate everything that went into the band and that album being such a big deal.

I think you can say that about a lot of albums, and I'm looking at Nevermind.

And I try not to do the "you had to be there" thing, but I do try and convey how I was feeling at the time. Regardless of image and look, the music on Appetite stood apart from what was going on at the time.

YES to this…I mean, I wasn’t quite there yet at the time, but Appetite was one of my first forays into heavier music, together with some other albums of the era, and it was pretty clear to me, image/attitude whatever other non-musical factor aside, that this one really did stand apart. Yes, it had the “sleaze” factor, it had the Aerosmith/Stones influence, but the riffs, the guitar arrangements, the melodies…man, it was (is!) so freakin’ good. There’s hard rock, there’s metal…all perfectly put together, with one memorable song after the other. And, again, the Izzy/Slash guitar interplay, if you listen to everything that’s going on…these were not songs that were just “put together”…they were brewed to perfection (and yet they still managed to sound raw, mean and lean)


Still one of my favorite albums of all time

[ZKX-2099]

Maybe I'll listen to it again with a fresh perspective later.

[Stadler]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

Z, I guess people either like it or they don't, but experiencing it in real time, here's what I would say.

It came out in the summer of '87 and hair metal was really kicking into high gear. Like grunge would feel like an answer to hair metal a few years later, Appetite, to me, felt like it did just that right in the middle of the whole movement. It stuck out immediately as authentic and....unpredictable. There was a strength to the songs and the playing that also stood out. They weren't formulaic hair metal anthems. They were street level rehashed Aerosmith, yet it sounded fresh. I actually saw them on their short East Coast club tour in October of '87, and they were legit.

In the end, they were really an enigma, as the Illusion albums would be released 4 years later, and then after a 2-3 year tour, they were finished. Perhaps it was the band's early death that enhances their short run, similar to how we feel about Burton/Cobain/Rhoads.

But they were just different...and better.

This. 

I was a - what do they call it? A "rising Junior"? - at Uconn, after coming off two years of outstanding experiences but lackluster grades.   I had sort of a mandate to get cracking and figure out "what I'm going to do with myself".  I had a girlfriend that I was really into, but she was from north of Boston so it was hard to see her with any regularity in the summer, and when we got back it was an exciting, tumultuous time.   Not coincidentally, we lived in a series of dorms called "The Jungle" on north campus.   

I had been heavy into prog and even tried - and failed! - to get into the Dead, and was sort of sick and tired of the standard Uconn fare (it was mandatory that every dorm room have a copy of Steve Miller's Greatest Hits, the Eagles Greatest Hits, and I have heard "Brown-Eyed Girl" so many times at Uconn that I need never hear it again and I'm fine with that).  So hearing Apettite, which like TAC said was "LA metal, but with authenticity", it was a breath of fresh air for me.  I never really connected with Motley, I thought the makeup was dumb, even coming from a Kiss fan, I thought Taime Downe was clown, and some of the other bands - LA Guns for one, Ratt for another - just seemed like lame-o versions of Aerosmith, who had done it earlier and better.  This was legit.   

I loved that record and played it almost constantly.

[Animal]

An obvious listing for some, a hot take for many others:
Queesryche: Promised Land >> Empire

Less controversial: Pain of Salvation: Remedy Lane following The Perfect Element, or Be following Remedy Lane (as both TPE and RL tend to be considered as equally landmark albums).

[hefdaddy42]

I like Appetite, but I don't see what makes it get such high praise besides the fact that it's really popular.

Z, I guess people either like it or they don't, but experiencing it in real time, here's what I would say.

It came out in the summer of '87 and hair metal was really kicking into high gear. Like grunge would feel like an answer to hair metal a few years later, Appetite, to me, felt like it did just that right in the middle of the whole movement. It stuck out immediately as authentic and....unpredictable. There was a strength to the songs and the playing that also stood out. They weren't formulaic hair metal anthems. They were street level rehashed Aerosmith, yet it sounded fresh. I actually saw them on their short East Coast club tour in October of '87, and they were legit.

In the end, they were really an enigma, as the Illusion albums would be released 4 years later, and then after a 2-3 year tour, they were finished. Perhaps it was the band's early death that enhances their short run, similar to how we feel about Burton/Cobain/Rhoads.

But they were just different...and better.

All of this.

However, while I agree that between Use Your Illusion I & II there is about an album's worth of good songs, that album is still not as good as Appetite for Destruction, IMO.

[Indiscipline]

This Appetite discussion is extremely interesting, as it illuminates a point very dear to my heart: you really can't fairly assess (well, you can, but you miss a lot of nuance and fun) an album as a decontextualised item; you have to put it in perspective(s), bot "horizontal" (what came immediately before, what it caused to happen immediately after) and "vertical" (the way it represents/clashes with/ changes its current zeitgeist).

No surprise youngsters dismiss The Beatles.

[Stadler]

This Appetite discussion is extremely interesting, as it illuminates a point very dear to my heart: you really can't fairly assess (well, you can, but you miss a lot of nuance and fun) an album as a decontextualised item; you have to put it in perspective(s), bot "horizontal" (what came immediately before, what it caused to happen immediately after) and "vertical" (the way it represents/clashes with/ changes its current zeitgeist).

No surprise youngsters dismiss The Beatles.

I've said it before here, but I don't know if you and I have had this conversation... but I'm a big fan of that idea of "context".  I had heard "Tommy" in pieces and was like "wha??".  I LOVED Who's Next, but Quadrophenia seemed too daunting.   Then I won an eBay auction that included, among other things, The Who catalogue from A quick One through It's Hard, and separately I got a live DVD with two shows, one from '71 (on the Tommy tour) and one from '78.   Seeing their timeline unfold made it all click.  I GOT it.  The Who isn't all of a sudden my favorite band, but I have a newfound appreciation for what they did and how they did it.  Same thing happened to me with the Dead.

The problem happens, of course, when you WERE there and STILL don't get it (for me, Nirvana).

[pg1067]

An obvious listing for some, a hot take for many others:
Queesryche: Promised Land >> Empire

Hot take, indeed.

O:M >>> Empire >>>>>>>>>> Promised Land

[Indiscipline]

This Appetite discussion is extremely interesting, as it illuminates a point very dear to my heart: you really can't fairly assess (well, you can, but you miss a lot of nuance and fun) an album as a decontextualised item; you have to put it in perspective(s), bot "horizontal" (what came immediately before, what it caused to happen immediately after) and "vertical" (the way it represents/clashes with/ changes its current zeitgeist).

No surprise youngsters dismiss The Beatles.

I've said it before here, but I don't know if you and I have had this conversation... but I'm a big fan of that idea of "context".  I had heard "Tommy" in pieces and was like "wha??".  I LOVED Who's Next, but Quadrophenia seemed too daunting.   Then I won an eBay auction that included, among other things, The Who catalogue from A quick One through It's Hard, and separately I got a live DVD with two shows, one from '71 (on the Tommy tour) and one from '78.   Seeing their timeline unfold made it all click.  I GOT it.  The Who isn't all of a sudden my favorite band, but I have a newfound appreciation for what they did and how they did it.  Same thing happened to me with the Dead.

The problem happens, of course, when you WERE there and STILL don't get it (for me, Nirvana).

Speaking of context and Nevermind, I believe there is no Nevermind without Appetite for Destruction and Nothing's Shocking.

[TAC]

Having a brain fart. Nothing’s Shocking?

[Indiscipline]

Jane's Addiction debut

[Stadler]

Jane's Addiction debut

GREAT call; Jane's foreshadowed the grunge movement - in philosophy, attitude and even musically - by a good three years at least.

[TAC]

Jane's Addiction debut

Oh, ok. Jane's Addiction never registered with me. I think the only think I heard from them was Caught Stealing, and I thought it sucked monkey gonads.

[TAC]

No surprise youngsters dismiss The Beatles.

I'm guilty of this as well. I had heard plenty of Beatles on the radio growing up, and while I did like some songs more than others, nothing ever really excited me, and I have never listened to a Beatles album from front to back in my entire lifetime. I respect them and all, and bands I love credit them big time, but as a listener, they have never done anything for me.

I said this a few weeks ago, but Kiss was my Beatles.

[Indiscipline]

No surprise youngsters dismiss The Beatles.

I'm guilty of this as well. I had heard plenty of Beatles on the radio growing up, and while I did like some songs more than others, nothing ever really excited me, and I have never listened to a Beatles album from front to back in my entire lifetime. I respect them and all, and bands I love credit them big time, but as a listener, they have never done anything for me.

I said this a few weeks ago, but Kiss was my Beatles.

You're not dismissing them. They just do nothing for you. Huge difference.

[jammindude]

Jane's Addiction debut

Oh, ok. Jane's Addiction never registered with me. I think the only think I heard from them was Caught Stealing, and I thought it sucked monkey gonads.

It was their *studio* debut, which is an important distinction.

But ya, Nothing’s Shocking was a groundbreaking and landmark album.