If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...

[nobloodyname]

I listened to the self-titled on my bike ride this morning. The processing on James's voice and the awful sound of the drums just kill the album for me. The faith stuff doesn't help on top of that, either. And, broadly speaking, I agree the songs "just weren't there".

Faith stuff? Do you have an example? Mostly it’s just positive more than anything. I understand that it wouldn’t appeal to necro nihilists but you’re not one of those I don’t think.

Along For The Ride is pretty religious IMO.

Yes, I agree. There are all sorts of faith-related bits and pieces throughout the album. I'll need to go through it again.

In the meantime I'd better look up the meaning of "necro nihilist"!

[skydivingninja]

What if the very first song in the setlist was--

Pull Me Under (the demo version)

DT returns to this seminal track, but with the original Erotomania section in tact.  This version has never been played live before.  It would be a mighty surprise and "I'm back" statement from MP to have the most obscure version of their most famous song open the show.  How Prog is that?

How have I never known this??? I'll have to look up the demo...

[MirrorMask]

What if the very first song in the setlist was--

Pull Me Under (the demo version)

DT returns to this seminal track, but with the original Erotomania section in tact.  This version has never been played live before.  It would be a mighty surprise and "I'm back" statement from MP to have the most obscure version of their most famous song open the show.  How Prog is that?

Erotomania does not belong in Pull Me Under just like Hell's Kitchen does not belong in Burning My Soul.

[gzarruk]

What if the very first song in the setlist was--

Pull Me Under (the demo version)

DT returns to this seminal track, but with the original Erotomania section in tact.  This version has never been played live before.  It would be a mighty surprise and "I'm back" statement from MP to have the most obscure version of their most famous song open the show.  How Prog is that?

How have I never known this??? I'll have to look up the demo...

https://youtu.be/YgbJ_v18t4Q?si=UT4bII4sbbf0VO_d

What if the very first song in the setlist was--

Pull Me Under (the demo version)

DT returns to this seminal track, but with the original Erotomania section in tact.  This version has never been played live before.  It would be a mighty surprise and "I'm back" statement from MP to have the most obscure version of their most famous song open the show.  How Prog is that?

Erotomania does not belong in Pull Me Under just like Hell's Kitchen does not belong in Burning My Soul.

That's correct

[Setlist Scotty]

Erotomania does not belong in Pull Me Under just like Hell's Kitchen does not belong in Burning My Soul.

That's correct

Love ya Gabe but nope, you're wrong!   

Don't forget that originally BMS had a mellow beginning to open the song that mirrored the mellow instrumental section that later was turned into HK - similar to how Home has a mellow intro that is later mirrored during the notorious soundbits section before the keyboard solo. So it wasn't as if that instrumental section appeared completely out of the blue.

Needless to say, I prefer the BMS '96 over the album version. It helps that this was the first version of the song I heard from listening to Ff96 boots repeatedly while waiting for them to record and release FII. That all said, I love the anthemic ending of HK, which would never have been created had it not been separated into a different song, so it's a good concession.

[sfam2112]

Erotomania does not belong in Pull Me Under just like Hell's Kitchen does not belong in Burning My Soul.

That's correct

Love ya Gabe but nope, you're wrong!   

Don't forget that originally BMS had a mellow beginning to open the song that mirrored the mellow instrumental section that later was turned into HK - similar to how Home has a mellow intro that is later mirrored during the notorious soundbits section before the keyboard solo. So it wasn't as if that instrumental section appeared completely out of the blue.

Needless to say, I prefer the BMS '96 over the album version. It helps that this was the first version of the song I heard from listening to Ff96 boots repeatedly while waiting for them to record and release FII. That all said, I love the anthemic ending of HK, which would never have been created had it not been separated into a different song, so it's a good concession.

Sorry Scotty. Much respect. But you're wrong! 😝😁

I'm one who heard the album version first. So, obviously that has an influence on why I like BMS and HK as they came to be. But to me, listening to the demo, BMS '96 just sounds like a mish-mash of riffs. Especially in that first and second verse. Then, after the 2nd chorus, they kill any momentum by dropping down to return to that quiet intro and go into this random soft section. Cool but very out of place.

Then, they kill that momentum to awkwardly go back into the chorus riff for the keyboard solo. I don't know. I think that was one instance where Kevin Shirley made the right call. The flow is way better in both on the album.

I have similar issues with the demo of "Lines in The Sand". But I've noticed they've reverted back to the original arrangement for that song live. So, I wonder if that case was a band decision as opposed to a Kevin Shirley decision. 

[Cool Chris]

That all said, I love the anthemic ending of HK, which would never have been created had it not been separated into a different song, so it's a good concession.

I listened to much of FII a short while back, and that may be favorite part of the entire album.

[pg1067]

Erotomania does not belong in Pull Me Under just like Hell's Kitchen does not belong in Burning My Soul.

Yeah...agree.  PERHAPS I'd have thought differently had I heard the original version of Oliver's Twist first, but it is the most out-of-place thing I think I've ever heard.  Same with BMS/HK.  The original literally sounds like someone took an existing song and used Pro Tools to stick something that doesn't belong in the middle.

[gzarruk]

Sometimes, trimming a song down ends up being the right move, even with a band like DT where the longest songs are usually the most loved by the fans.

[Setlist Scotty]

The original literally sounds like someone took an existing song and used Pro Tools to stick something that doesn't belong in the middle.

Kinda like Metropolis, BTL and TDEN?

[RaiseTheKnife]

I first heard the 96 version of Burning My Soul, well, live in 1996.  But I do find the album version to be a more definitive presentation of those musical ideas.

And I agree that Erotomania doesn't technically belong in Pull Me Under.  But back on topic, why not try something unexpected and fresh for the live version?  DT is not adverse to playing demos of previously released songs.  They brought back the BMS demo.  And I'll never forget when they whipped out the demo version of Hollow Years for me and that one other guy that knew the extra verses.  Its the VIP treatment for the super fan.  And I like it.

[JeopardousRaven]

The original literally sounds like someone took an existing song and used Pro Tools to stick something that doesn't belong in the middle.

Thought you were talking about Ministry of Lost Souls for a second here

[pg1067]

Kinda like Metropolis, BTL and TDEN?

Those don't sound that way to me.

[Mosh]

I always thought that original version of Pull Me Under sounded really clunky, even by the standards of other songs of theirs that go into big instrumental sections (several songs mentioned already). They did themselves a big favor getting rid of that section, and it works way better than in Erotomania. I guess it would be a cool bone to throw to the hardcore fans and those who don't know any better might just think it's some weird medley with Erotomania.

All that being said, I would really love to just see Erotomania and Voices come back.

[Setlist Scotty]

Those don't sound that way to me.

Maybe not to you because that's the way you heard the songs for the first time. I remember hearing BTL and loving it until it got to the "Zappa" section, and then I was like WHAT THE....??!?!?!? I've gotten used to it, but for me, it sounds WAY more out of place than the mellow section in the middle of BMS ever did (again, don't forget the '96 version also has the mellow intro to start the song which is mirrored later, so it's not completely out of the blue).

[TAC]

Honestly, the original BMS always sounded like a work in progress. The decision to split it resulted in two reasonably decent tunes as opposed to something that didn't make any sense.
The original BMS felt like the band was really out of ideas and tried to craft something that just wasn't there.

[hefdaddy42]

Honestly, the original BMS always sounded like a work in progress. The decision to split it resulted in two reasonably decent tunes as opposed to something that didn't make any sense.
The original BMS felt like the band was really out of ideas and tried to craft something that just wasn't there.

Agreed

[MirrorMask]

Some people complain about "forced diversity" in entertainment, well, in prog there can be also such a thing as "forced complexity". Tempo and mood changes in a song have to happen organically, sticking random parts together just for the sake of calling it a complex song doesn't do anything for me. It has to flow first and foremost, if power metal bands can make coherent 13 minutes songs, so can DT, actually DT should be the benchmark for how to structure songs and not expose themselves to "copy and paste" criticisms.

[bosk1]

The only downside to splitting HK out of BMS is that you have to hit the "skip" button twice instead of just once.

[Trav86]

The only downside to splitting HK out of BMS is that you have to hit the "skip" button twice instead of just once.

You have a point.

[geeeemo]

In the minority here. I like BMS. I liked it better the more I listened to it. (who'da thunk with Dream Theater). Then, I liked it even more after I heard with HK.
In fact, I didn't really care for HK, until I heard it presented this way.  Now I like all of them.

[bosk1]

In the minority here. I like BMS. I liked it better the more I listened to it. (who'da thunk with Dream Theater). Then, I liked it even more after I heard with HK.
In fact, I didn't really care for HK, until I heard it presented this way.  Now I like all of them.

As I've mentioned before, both are near the bottom of my rankings of DT songs, BUT:
-Regarding BMS, I think it would slay live, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in a set.
-HK is a nice intro piece for LITS, and I don't mind it in that context.

[TAC]

As I've mentioned before, both are near the bottom of my rankings of DT songs, BUT:
-Regarding BMS, I think it would slay live, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in a set.
-HK is a nice intro piece for LITS, and I don't mind it in that context.

"Slay" might be a bit strong, but I hear you. The '05 version of JLMB was awesome live, with a slightly extended JR continuum solo.

HK, to me, is the kind of song the band could come back out for an encore with before blasting into a high energy song.

[MoraWintersoul]

I would really, really, REALLY enjoy Hell's Kitchen if they played it. Would buy and put a nice bra in my concert bag to toss at them

[Trav86]

I would really, really, REALLY enjoy Hell's Kitchen if they played it. Would buy and put a nice bra in my concert bag to toss at them

That’s a hell of an incentive!

[MoraWintersoul]

I imagine they've seen their share of nice bras so I don't know how much of an incentive it is

[Metro]

Reminds me of this classic video
https://youtu.be/ywPuWyh-gCU?si=m1r91GK7YtgsHznw

[nick_z]

On BMS and HK...

I have said it before, but HK is one of my favorite DT instrumentals, and BMS is one of my least favorite songs on FII soooo...to me the "extraction" of the instrumental portion was perhaps the best production decision in those sessions. And I did hear the original version first, live, on the Pre-FII tour.

And going over Scotty's examples...Metropolis, well, yes, the instrumental section is a bit out of nowhere, but the young me in 1992 hadn't heard anything like it, so I fell in love with it regardless As for BTL and TDEN...they are pretty far down my DT songs' ranking, so I guess it all more or less fits...

[pg1067]

Reminds me of this classic video
https://youtu.be/ywPuWyh-gCU?si=m1r91GK7YtgsHznw

That bra was never enough.

[KevinJonathanPetrucci]

Honor Thy Father: Would be amazing to see live!  So heavy, angry, and so much energy!  It was on my very first DT album.
Metropolis Pt. 1: One of my absolute favorites!
Misunderstood: Such a unique track.  I love it, and I've never seen it in person.
Scenes is my favorite album, so...
    The Dance of Eternity: Fun to watch!  Fun to listen to!
    The Spirit Carries On: Always amazing live!
    Finally Free: A great outro.  The return of the Portnoy drum solo at the end.
Bridges in the Sky: A banger from one of their best albums, DToE!
Stream of Conciousness: Great instrumental, also from my very first DT album.  Gives me chills every time.
In The Presence of Enemies: I still remember the excitement hearing this for the first time and loving it!
Octavarium: A masterpiece!

[Schurftkut]

when will the results be posted?

[bosk1]

Good question.  I've been debating whether to cut this off soon and try to get the results to the band sooner rather than later, or to wait a bit.  Not currently decided.

[geeeemo]

Good question.  I've been debating whether to cut this off soon and try to get the results to the band sooner rather than later, or to wait a bit.  Not currently decided.

I suppose it may depend on if there will be some sort of summer tour, which would have to be planned soonish, I would think.

[Revenge319]

1. Octavarium
2. Blind Faith
3. Misunderstood
4. A Rite of Passage
5. Lines in the Sand
6. A New Beginning
7. Transcending Time
8. S2N
9. Ytse Jam
10. The Enemy Inside

[MirrorMask]

Good question.  I've been debating whether to cut this off soon and try to get the results to the band sooner rather than later, or to wait a bit.  Not currently decided.

It would be nice also to get a comment from them; not "K we'll play Octavarium and The Glass Prison since you asked", but more having a general feedback if they appreciated the songs we came up with and how different it was from their expectations