Author Topic: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...  (Read 10489 times)

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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #175 on: March 21, 2024, 09:51:53 AM »
Nostalgia is a big part of this reunion.
I don't know about that. Those albums without MP have some huge detractors, who are all going to show up anyway to see MP regardless of what they play. Then there is a bigger number of huge fans who are definitely going to be disappointed if they skip over those albums. Then there's the biggest number, the majority of DT fans, who don't have strong negative or positive opinions on the albums but would enjoy hearing some of the modern classics, and the most negative of them probably wouldn't be opposed to hearing a couple of the best songs.

Outside of us fans, there's also JP, JR, JLB and JMX who are all happy and excited to have MP back but who probably don't feel like they've just been spinning their wheels waiting for his return. There's also the fact you'll always feel more of a connection to your classic albums and your formative years, but outside of their true formative years, who knows, maybe they have more of an emotional tie to the songs they made for the first Mangini album than the ninth or tenth MP album, seeing how it was a new beginning for them? And then we have MP who said he's not opposed either.

The bolded part intrigues me. I would love to hear actual reasons why the 5 albums without MP have huge detractors AS A WHOLE. Because they all sound pretty different from each other. ADTOE is nothing like TA which is nothing like DoT. I fail to see the criticism that would be consistent against each of those 5 albums unless someone had an entrenched anti-MM bias?

They do all sound preeeetty different from each other, but for me, the self-titled and Astonishing killed so much interest in the band for me I didn't check out D/T until they had already played in my town that tour and I missed it. The songs just weren't there, and the Astonishing in particular could have been a bad but bearable one-disc album and instead it's two discs and unbearable. View is fine, but not great. Definition of a mid by-the-book album.

ADTOE has not aged as well for me as a whole (even though I loved it on release) but has some modern classics for sure. D/T actually stands toe-to-toe with their classic stuff because the songs were there, they kept themselves from filling out a whole 80 minutes, and they nailed the mix of prog and metal.

Mangini is not as engaging a drummer as MP, but to be fair MP was not as engaging a drummer after Octavarium either. But the difference in drum parts really is night and day even comparing BC&SL or SC to ADTOE or D/T.

So, make of that what you will, but it's not just "no MP."

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #176 on: March 21, 2024, 10:14:11 AM »
I listened to the self-titled on my bike ride this morning. The processing on James's voice and the awful sound of the drums just kill the album for me. The faith stuff doesn't help on top of that, either. And, broadly speaking, I agree the songs "just weren't there".
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 10:20:24 AM by nobloodyname »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #177 on: March 21, 2024, 10:14:37 AM »
I can't say I'm a detractor, per se, as there are plenty of songs on the five records that I really enjoy, and I've seen them more in that era than in the pre-Mangini era.  But in terms of sitting down and enjoying an album, I almost always - well, always - go to the MP era. 

FOR ME - and I am only expressing MY opinion here - the MP albums had wankery under the guise of songs and melody and concept.   I found the wankery in the last five records to be more unabashed, and straightforward, and I missed that melding.  There are too many songs in the last five records where I'm distracted by the pure technicality as opposed to admiring it.  I don't listen to music to listen to an Olympic event.  There is at least ONE song on every one of the last couple records where I'm like "are we getting paid by the note here?" and to be a little unfair, but it's the way I feel, that is most often directed at Mangini, and within that, most often directed at the bass drum. It just feels like every album has more moments of "a world record 7,824,921 bass drum hits in 30 seconds", and I'm looking for more moments of "however many bass drum hits it takes to get the emotion across".

I'm not looking to (re)start any arguments, here, it's just what I hear for better or worse. 

Offline gborland

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #178 on: March 21, 2024, 10:28:02 AM »
One of the reasons I'm excited about MP's return is that I hope his playing of the MM-era songs in their live shows might allow me to start enjoying those songs. I'm sure there are some great songs from the MM era, if you can look past the atrocious drum sound... but I can't get past the atrocious drum sound, and I can't stand listening to these albums.

So, I would love to experience something like Breaking All Illusions with MP on drums, and for me to be blown away by it in a way that the studio recordings never managed.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #179 on: March 21, 2024, 10:43:54 AM »
One of the reasons I'm excited about MP's return is that I hope his playing of the MM-era songs in their live shows might allow me to start enjoying those songs. I'm sure there are some great songs from the MM era, if you can look past the atrocious drum sound... but I can't get past the atrocious drum sound, and I can't stand listening to these albums.

So, I would love to experience something like Breaking All Illusions with MP on drums, and for me to be blown away by it in a way that the studio recordings never managed.

I like this, at least philosophically (I don't think it was all "just" the drum sound, but I'll leave it at that.)

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #180 on: March 21, 2024, 11:29:36 AM »
One of the reasons I'm excited about MP's return is that I hope his playing of the MM-era songs in their live shows might allow me to start enjoying those songs. I'm sure there are some great songs from the MM era, if you can look past the atrocious drum sound... but I can't get past the atrocious drum sound, and I can't stand listening to these albums.

So, I would love to experience something like Breaking All Illusions with MP on drums, and for me to be blown away by it in a way that the studio recordings never managed.
I would recommend the live versions.  MM's drums sounded better on their live albums (IMO) than on the studio albums.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #181 on: March 21, 2024, 12:10:45 PM »
One of the reasons I'm excited about MP's return is that I hope his playing of the MM-era songs in their live shows might allow me to start enjoying those songs. I'm sure there are some great songs from the MM era, if you can look past the atrocious drum sound... but I can't get past the atrocious drum sound, and I can't stand listening to these albums.

So, I would love to experience something like Breaking All Illusions with MP on drums, and for me to be blown away by it in a way that the studio recordings never managed.

I don't have a problem with the drum sound.  But if you do, I see your point.  That said, I would hope that nobody ever has to experience Breaking All Illusions again.  There are 68 better songs in the MM era that I would prefer to hear.
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Online TAC

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #182 on: March 21, 2024, 12:24:29 PM »
One of the reasons I'm excited about MP's return is that I hope his playing of the MM-era songs in their live shows might allow me to start enjoying those songs. I'm sure there are some great songs from the MM era, if you can look past the atrocious drum sound... but I can't get past the atrocious drum sound, and I can't stand listening to these albums.

So, I would love to experience something like Breaking All Illusions with MP on drums, and for me to be blown away by it in a way that the studio recordings never managed.

I don't have a problem with the drum sound.  But if you do, I see your point. 

Well, it may not be the drum sound, but I can see how someone would like to see MP and his style interpret those songs.





Especially Breaking All Illusions. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #183 on: March 21, 2024, 12:50:51 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"
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Offline sfam2112

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #184 on: March 21, 2024, 12:59:00 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"

Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #185 on: March 21, 2024, 01:55:36 PM »
^
Amen to that!!!

And, as to BAI, I'm sure it's one of the ten most mentioned so far.........
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline gzarruk

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #186 on: March 21, 2024, 02:30:24 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"

 :omg: :rollin
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #187 on: March 21, 2024, 08:54:23 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"

Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝

Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?

Offline Metro

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #188 on: March 21, 2024, 08:57:06 PM »
It's ruined that section of the studio version for me. I hear it every time.

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #189 on: March 22, 2024, 12:43:58 AM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"

Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝

Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?

Just getting carried away in a live performance.
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Offline sfam2112

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #190 on: March 22, 2024, 02:23:48 AM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!

"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"

Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝

Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?

Just getting carried away in a live performance.

Yeah but you'd think he could exercise a little better judgement during the one professional filming for that DVD. 🙄😄 I digest...
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #191 on: March 22, 2024, 11:09:59 AM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!
"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"
Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝
Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?
Just getting carried away in a live performance.
Yeah but you'd think he could exercise a little better judgement during the one professional filming for that DVD. 🙄😄 I digest...
....except they never originally planned on doing a live release for that tour, having just done live releases for the previous 2 tours. When they finally decided to do a release, they ended up using pro-shot footage by other companies (in other words, permitted by the band but not officially sanctioned) and there were 6 shows that were filmed, so that's what MP had to choose from to make up that release. Why he chose that specific performance of Schmedley Wilcox, I don't know, but IIRC, he did the same thing at plenty of shows (but not every one).
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #192 on: March 22, 2024, 11:25:04 AM »
Which release does it happen in? I can't even remember now. Although yeah, I always 'hear' it like everyone else :lol
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Offline Metro

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #193 on: March 22, 2024, 01:14:14 PM »
Chaos in Motion

Offline sfam2112

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #194 on: March 22, 2024, 02:40:53 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!
"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"
Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝
Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?
Just getting carried away in a live performance.
Yeah but you'd think he could exercise a little better judgement during the one professional filming for that DVD. 🙄😄 I digest...
....except they never originally planned on doing a live release for that tour, having just done live releases for the previous 2 tours. When they finally decided to do a release, they ended up using pro-shot footage by other companies (in other words, permitted by the band but not officially sanctioned) and there were 6 shows that were filmed, so that's what MP had to choose from to make up that release. Why he chose that specific performance of Schmedley Wilcox, I don't know, but IIRC, he did the same thing at plenty of shows (but not every one).

I remember the Vancouver show specifically being announced as being filmed. I thought it was announced beforehand but this sounds like it was after the fact.
"We had a film crew come out"

https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-vancouver-concert-filmed-for-upcoming-dvd

Sorry for derailing. I'll stop here.
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Offline nobloodyname

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #195 on: March 22, 2024, 03:51:54 PM »
Chaos in Motion

Thank you!

So weird I remember it, really, because I barely listened to Chaos in Motion! Goes to show how daft it is, I guess!
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #196 on: March 22, 2024, 03:56:20 PM »
Chaos in Motion

Thank you!

So weird I remember it, really, because I barely listened to Chaos in Motion! Goes to show how daft it is, I guess!

 :lol it's the last "movement" on Schmedley Wilcox
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Dream Team

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #197 on: March 22, 2024, 07:03:16 PM »
I listened to the self-titled on my bike ride this morning. The processing on James's voice and the awful sound of the drums just kill the album for me. The faith stuff doesn't help on top of that, either. And, broadly speaking, I agree the songs "just weren't there".


Faith stuff? Do you have an example? Mostly it’s just positive more than anything. I understand that it wouldn’t appeal to necro nihilists but you’re not one of those I don’t think.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #198 on: March 22, 2024, 07:43:19 PM »
If they don’t perform 8vm due to time constraints and room for the new songs, at least end the concerts with ‘The Razor’s Edge’.  Please!
"We move in circles.... WHAA-HAA!"
Oh, dear God. No thank you. 😝
Yeah. Just...why? Why do that?
Just getting carried away in a live performance.
Yeah but you'd think he could exercise a little better judgement during the one professional filming for that DVD. 🙄😄 I digest...
....except they never originally planned on doing a live release for that tour, having just done live releases for the previous 2 tours. When they finally decided to do a release, they ended up using pro-shot footage by other companies (in other words, permitted by the band but not officially sanctioned) and there were 6 shows that were filmed, so that's what MP had to choose from to make up that release. Why he chose that specific performance of Schmedley Wilcox, I don't know, but IIRC, he did the same thing at plenty of shows (but not every one).
I remember the Vancouver show specifically being announced as being filmed. I thought it was announced beforehand but this sounds like it was after the fact.
"We had a film crew come out"

https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-vancouver-concert-filmed-for-upcoming-dvd

Sorry for derailing. I'll stop here.
Interesting. If I saw that post, I had forgotten about it, so thanks for posting the link. No Regardless, IIRC, the other 5 shows were all shot independently of the band, but they were given the footage, which is what CiM was based upon.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline gborland

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #199 on: March 23, 2024, 08:59:56 AM »
I listened to the self-titled on my bike ride this morning. The processing on James's voice and the awful sound of the drums just kill the album for me. The faith stuff doesn't help on top of that, either. And, broadly speaking, I agree the songs "just weren't there".


Faith stuff? Do you have an example? Mostly it’s just positive more than anything. I understand that it wouldn’t appeal to necro nihilists but you’re not one of those I don’t think.

Along For The Ride is pretty religious IMO.
Graham Borland

Offline bosk1

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #200 on: March 23, 2024, 11:20:07 AM »
???  No it isn't.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #201 on: March 23, 2024, 11:55:29 AM »
Anyway Bosk, since it might have gotten lost in the shuffle, I humbly suggest it again: would it be out of the realms of possibility, once you pass the list to the band, to get some comment about it? I'm not expecting "k we'll play Octavarium and The Glass Prison since you asked for it", but something more vague, a general comment if they expected those songs, if they were pleasantly surprised, if their reaction it's just "I was sure it would have been all Metropolis, Pull Me Under and As I Am"....?
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Offline Schurftkut

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #202 on: March 23, 2024, 01:09:14 PM »
+1

Offline geeeemo

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #203 on: March 23, 2024, 01:31:05 PM »
+2

Offline gzarruk

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #204 on: March 23, 2024, 01:49:06 PM »
Would be nice, for sure :tup
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #205 on: March 23, 2024, 02:05:49 PM »
???  No it isn't.

"I am not shattered
Out of the ashes I rise
Knowing that nothing is stronger than faith
Finding hope in our hopeless lives"

How could one come to the conclusion the song is about religious faith?  :justjen

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #206 on: March 23, 2024, 05:23:57 PM »
???  No it isn't.

"I am not shattered
Out of the ashes I rise
Knowing that nothing is stronger than faith
Finding hope in our hopeless lives"

How could one come to the conclusion the song is about religious faith?  :justjen

"Out of the Ashes" makes me think of a Phoenix, which is a metaphor for the subject feeling a sense of being renewed. Their outlook has shifted to be more positive and optimistic.

I actually don't see this song as being religious at all.
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Offline Trav86

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #207 on: March 23, 2024, 05:36:53 PM »
???  No it isn't.

"I am not shattered
Out of the ashes I rise
Knowing that nothing is stronger than faith
Finding hope in our hopeless lives"

How could one come to the conclusion the song is about religious faith?  :justjen

He said he was inspired by the Boston Marathon bombing. It’s about picking yourself up and persevering. Bad things happen but you have to hope for the best, or else what’s the point.
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #208 on: March 23, 2024, 08:09:31 PM »
My point was less "ha ha see that other guy was right" and more "when the lyrics specifically mention nothing being faith and we know JP is religious, it's not a stretch for someone to make." Art, open to interpretation, yadda yadda yadda.

Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: If YOU were writing the set list for the next DT tour...
« Reply #209 on: March 23, 2024, 09:26:36 PM »
What if the very first song in the setlist was--

Pull Me Under (the demo version)

DT returns to this seminal track, but with the original Erotomania section in tact.  This version has never been played live before.  It would be a mighty surprise and "I'm back" statement from MP to have the most obscure version of their most famous song open the show.  How Prog is that?