Author Topic: NFL 2024 season - v. Greatest Pats...and 31 other cool teams  (Read 4775 times)

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Online King Postwhore

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2024, 11:08:24 AM »
 :lol

Yup.  LOL
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Online faizoff

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2024, 11:31:42 AM »
Plenty of RB movement yesterday and today.

Derrick Henry now with the Ravens.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2024, 11:42:42 AM »
Derrick Henry now with the Ravens.
Saw that.

That's pretty huge. 
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2024, 01:31:36 PM »
Derrick Henry now with the Ravens.
Saw that.

That's pretty huge.

Wow, that IS huge.

Offline MusicMaker

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2024, 02:20:15 PM »
More evidence that the motto of the NFL is "What have you done for me lately?"  I was equally shocked that Vrabel was let go in Tennessee after being Coach of the Year just a couple of years ago.

And no takers anywhere else!! I thought he'd be hired in a week, tops. Nope.

I'm shocked Vrabel wasn't hired.

For the most part, Titans fans (myself included) were neither shocked nor disappointed at his departure.  He is without question a very good leader, motivator, and preparer.  A "leader of men," as was trumpeted by the organization when he was hired.  He was also an excellent game manager (clock decisions, situational awareness, rules expertise, etc.).  And when he had good staff around him executing the overall vision, he was amongst the very best coaches in football.

Vrabel's achilles heel, though, was his pattern of only hiring his buddies or former contacts/collaborators into just about all the positions around him.  And when anyone having success (Matt LeFleur, Arthur Smith, Dean Pees, etc.) was unsurprisingly hired away or retired, he'd almost always hire/promote from within (sometimes with disastrous results, such as their ridiculously unqualified and disastrous offense line coach Jason Houghtaling), or bring someone mediocre/terrible he'd known from somewhere he'd been before (usually traceable to Ohio State or Houston Texans).  At first, when things started going horribly wrong after Arthur Smith left, we (fans) were definitely placing the blame at various asst coaches' feet (offensive coordinator, offensive line coach, etc.).  But eventually, when those coaches (and the team) just kept dong the same things over and over without success, with literally NO in-game or post-halftime adjustments, or week-to-week improvement, fans got crazy frustrated.  The real kicker, though, was how those assts were never called to account for it, no changes were made, and how Vrabel would be outright antagonistic towards any press suggestions that there might be some coaching or scheme or game-planning or play-calling issues.  That was the turning point where it was made pretty clear to everyone regularly following the Titans where the real problem was.  The buck stops with the head coach.  If he won't take responsibility (and make changes in response to) the shortcomings of his support staff, then he becomes the problem.

This exact same thing, incidentally, is what did in Mike Mularkey at the same franchise, which directly led to Vrabel's hiring in the first place.  Mularkey changed the culture in Tennessee from years of losing to a winning culture (even won a playoff game in his last season!), but was subsequently fired after the season because he wasn't willing to replace his blatantly under-performing assistant coaches.  So, he was shown the door.  Just like Vrabel several years later.

So the Titans moved on and hired Callahan from Cincinnati (a hire I quite like, by the way, though obviously it remains to be seen how it goes), and now it is BLATANTLY obvious what his mandate is.  He has assembled highly qualified assistant coaches from all kinds of places, and has been preaching nothing but versatility, collaboration, and major scheme shifts from what has happened the past 2-3 years under Vrabel.

Vrabel is not a bad coach- and he can be absolutely outstanding.  He WAS the best coach in the league for a couple years, especially when you consider the *insane* injury issues Titans had in back-to-back seasons and their crazy success nonetheless. But he's incredibly stubborn, resistant to change, and loyal to a fault to his previous hires/decisions.  Fans (and the franchise) wanted (and glaringly needed) changes in his assistants and their plans/calls/teaching, and when that never ever happened eventually Vrabel had to answer for it.  Fairly self-inflicted, actually.

I'm not shocked he wasn't hired elsewhere.  I think many GMs and owners didn't love his playstyle, and defensive-background HCs are certainly not all the rage right now.  Of course they can be successful (Belichick, etc.), but they HAVE to have great offensive coaches and staff (not to mention QBs!), and Vrabel has struggled mightily in those areas recently.

I think he'll get (and fully deserves) another shot for sure.  But Tennessee was right to make this change right now.

Online El Barto

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2024, 02:26:24 PM »
Interesting take.
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Offline MusicMaker

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2024, 02:33:49 PM »
Derrick Henry now with the Ravens.

The football gods continue to hate Tennessee fans.

There is no team more hated in Titans franchise history than the Baltimore Ravens.  Bad blood everywhere, going all the way back to 2001.  Yet, cruelly, so many Titans greats ended up leaving Tennessee and playing for the Ravens.  Steve McNair, Derrick Mason, Greg Montgomery, Samari Rolle, and now.. King Henry.

Totally understand why Henry and the Titans have to split this year.  Sad for everyone, but what's necessary for all.  Plenty of love from every direction, despite the change.  And we all want The King to go win a Super Bowl somewhere, and then someday do his Hall of Fame induction ceremony in Two Tone Blue.  But why, WHY, Football Gods, does it have to go be with the freaking Baltimore Rat Birds?!??!

Literally the worst possible place for Titans fans.

All that said, I hope Henry still rushes for 2,000 yards next year... and the Ravens go 0-17.

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2024, 04:10:20 PM »
Derrick Henry now with the Ravens.

The football gods continue to hate Tennessee fans.

There is no team more hated in Titans franchise history than the Baltimore Ravens.  Bad blood everywhere, going all the way back to 2001.  Yet, cruelly, so many Titans greats ended up leaving Tennessee and playing for the Ravens.  Steve McNair, Derrick Mason, Greg Montgomery, Samari Rolle, and now.. King Henry.

Totally understand why Henry and the Titans have to split this year.  Sad for everyone, but what's necessary for all.  Plenty of love from every direction, despite the change.  And we all want The King to go win a Super Bowl somewhere, and then someday do his Hall of Fame induction ceremony in Two Tone Blue.  But why, WHY, Football Gods, does it have to go be with the freaking Baltimore Rat Birds?!??!

Literally the worst possible place for Titans fans.

All that said, I hope Henry still rushes for 2,000 yards next year... and the Ravens go 0-17.

I'm going to give you a pat on the back and try to sooth your pain - There, there.....there there......

:)

But as a Cowboys fan, I feel your pain brah!

Online El Barto

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2024, 10:39:21 AM »
Josh Uche took a massive pay cut to stay in New England. I always like seeing that. Seems like all players care about nowadays is squeezing out every last dollar over all else. Some times I can get that and others not so much. Interestingly, in this situation he should have taken the bigger deal (11m guaranteed for 2 years, vs 2.3m for 1 year in NE). He's not guaranteed a huge payday later on. Moreover, if that's all NE would give him now I'm not sure he can expect more next year. In any case, I appreciate the dude sticking to his values, which appears to be what he's done.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2024, 12:23:07 PM »
Josh Uche took a massive pay cut to stay in New England. I always like seeing that. Seems like all players care about nowadays is squeezing out every last dollar over all else. Some times I can get that and others not so much. Interestingly, in this situation he should have taken the bigger deal (11m guaranteed for 2 years, vs 2.3m for 1 year in NE). He's not guaranteed a huge payday later on. Moreover, if that's all NE would give him now I'm not sure he can expect more next year. In any case, I appreciate the dude sticking to his values, which appears to be what he's done.
If he's taking much less now, with probably no more coming later, what good is he doing himself or his family?  Just curious.  I don't know the situation, but I generally am on the side of players getting every dollar they can WHILE they can, because teams don't feel any remorse when they cut or refuse to re-sign them.
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2024, 12:29:32 PM »
Josh Uche took a massive pay cut to stay in New England. I always like seeing that. Seems like all players care about nowadays is squeezing out every last dollar over all else. Some times I can get that and others not so much. Interestingly, in this situation he should have taken the bigger deal (11m guaranteed for 2 years, vs 2.3m for 1 year in NE). He's not guaranteed a huge payday later on. Moreover, if that's all NE would give him now I'm not sure he can expect more next year. In any case, I appreciate the dude sticking to his values, which appears to be what he's done.

According to Bert Breer, it's 3 mil and up to 8 with incentives
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Online El Barto

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2024, 12:34:33 PM »
Josh Uche took a massive pay cut to stay in New England. I always like seeing that. Seems like all players care about nowadays is squeezing out every last dollar over all else. Some times I can get that and others not so much. Interestingly, in this situation he should have taken the bigger deal (11m guaranteed for 2 years, vs 2.3m for 1 year in NE). He's not guaranteed a huge payday later on. Moreover, if that's all NE would give him now I'm not sure he can expect more next year. In any case, I appreciate the dude sticking to his values, which appears to be what he's done.
If he's taking much less now, with probably no more coming later, what good is he doing himself or his family?  Just curious.  I don't know the situation, but I generally am on the side of players getting every dollar they can WHILE they can, because teams don't feel any remorse when they cut or refuse to re-sign them.
I don't know the guy, so I can't say for sure. Two things I can say, though: One is that he's investing in himself. He missed a couple of games last year. He wasn't playing opposite Judon. The D was put in unwinnable situations. He's still pretty young, and a better season this year might easily turn 11m over two years into 30m over 3. Second is that he's playing where he wants to play, and that matters. With incentives and the entirety of his rookie contract he'll have made upwards of 8m so far. It's not like he's jeopardizing his family's future by doing what he wants to do.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2024, 12:44:06 PM »
Whatever he wants to do is fine with me.
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2024, 12:44:49 PM »
Josh Uche took a massive pay cut to stay in New England. I always like seeing that. Seems like all players care about nowadays is squeezing out every last dollar over all else. Some times I can get that and others not so much. Interestingly, in this situation he should have taken the bigger deal (11m guaranteed for 2 years, vs 2.3m for 1 year in NE). He's not guaranteed a huge payday later on. Moreover, if that's all NE would give him now I'm not sure he can expect more next year. In any case, I appreciate the dude sticking to his values, which appears to be what he's done.

According to Bert Breer, it's 3 mil and up to 8 with incentives
2.3 is guaranteed. The other .7 comes from incentives he's likely to attain. His cap number is just under 3m, and cap numbers include incentives that a player is predicted to achieve (that .7). If he has an all-pro year he might well get that incentive money, but it's a far cry from the guaranteed check he was offered (which probably also included plenty of incentive money).
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2024, 11:20:33 AM »
I'm pretty fascinated by all the free agent signings. By the time we get past the draft there should be a ton of shake-up on who people think the real power player teams are and probably a ton of hot takes on predicted playoff teams.

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2024, 02:18:58 PM »
It’s a hit piece, Bart. And if it’s not, it’s certainly coming across that way.

And Kraft is FINALLY getting some blowback around here between this and the players’ survey.
Every week when the press starts reporting the highlights it seems to sound more and more like a hatchet job. I expect the next two installments to be about Belichick sacrificing babies to earn Lucifer's favour.
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2024, 02:42:45 PM »
From what I read, it is.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Online faizoff

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #87 on: March 15, 2024, 03:08:46 PM »
It’s a hit piece, Bart. And if it’s not, it’s certainly coming across that way.

And Kraft is FINALLY getting some blowback around here between this and the players’ survey.
Every week when the press starts reporting the highlights it seems to sound more and more like a hatchet job. I expect the next two installments to be about Belichick sacrificing babies to earn Lucifer's favour.

I have one more episode left, but episode 9 was a total dump on Bill episode from anyone and everyone. Gronk, Slater, Amendola, Butler, McCourty, Kraft, various reporters, all laid it out on Bill for sitting Malcolm out in the superbowl and various other things. Some probably right.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 03:23:04 PM by faizoff »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2024, 05:13:50 PM »
I read the quote today from Kraft and it was brutal (about putting emotions ahead of the team).  Fucking A.

And Tomlin fans on Pittsburgh's high-draft pick QB, bring on their version of "Cam Newton" and... business as usual. 

Bill deserves so much better. 

Offline TAC

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #89 on: March 16, 2024, 06:01:34 PM »


Bill deserves so much better.

Kraft is a fucking snake. Always has been. And Bill does deserve better than getting skewered BUT... Bill has really fucked himself over the last few years running the team. He should've been fired, but respectfully so.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2024, 06:07:37 PM »
I disagree. Bill did not adapt to the culture happening.  Brady was the team and he constantly didn't adjust to him. The top 3 players revolted which Bill needed to continue his culture,  but he fought back. In the end, he got what he wanted and went, 25-38.

It's on Bill.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2024, 06:48:49 PM »
Can we put all the blame on both Bill and Brady? Asking as an unbiased observer :biggrin:
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2024, 06:50:52 PM »
Okay fine.  Say you’re right.  Do you keep throwing the guy under the bus continually in the months afterward?  Or do you move on gracefully and with class?  It’s maybe the one mistake he made in 50 years of coaching for fuck’s sake.  It’s like Kraft is a little kid trying to justify his move. 


(… and a little premature on the Timlin comment.  Pickett for Fields, with Wilson as mentor, is a nice upgrade.)

Offline TAC

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2024, 07:00:10 PM »
Okay fine.  Say you’re right.  Do you keep throwing the guy under the bus continually in the months afterward?  Or do you move on gracefully and with class?  It’s maybe the one mistake he made in 50 years of coaching for fuck’s sake.  It’s like Kraft is a little kid trying to justify his move. 

Well, it's more than one mistake. You can't drive a team into the ground like he has with one mistake.


That said, I'm 100% with you on Kraft. There's no such thing as Patriot Place without Brady AND Belichick. The "class" of Robert Kraft has always been a charade. And it's his own vanity that is finally opening people's eyes to it.

Robert Kraft was well within his right to dismiss Belichick. It was time, no matter how anyone feels about either of them. But he should've showered Bill with Thank Yous and not Fuck Yous on his way out the door.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #94 on: March 16, 2024, 07:17:47 PM »
💯 Tim.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #95 on: March 16, 2024, 09:44:45 PM »
As a Bears fan, let's just say I am expecting the worst. Fields has the ability to be a beast. He needs the right coach and players around him. He needed an O-line. Trade him away for essentially nothing. Never in my life have the Bears had a true franchise QB. Something in my gut tells me that whoever they draft with be another bust (for them).

The upside, I have also been a Steelers fan my whole life. I think he stands a chance under Tomlin.
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Online El Barto

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2024, 11:51:25 AM »
A ways back I was pretty cool with TB12. Joe, unintentionally I suspect, convinced me that he was actually a whiny little bitch. It definitely seems to have turned out to be the case. Never let it be said that I can't change my POV with these people. I also never really agreed with the assessment that Bob Kraft was a sleazy little fuck, though TAC's certainly been of this opinion. Generally speaking I'm alright with the guy. This Dynasty thing is convincing me otherwise, though. It's only been a couple of months, and the dude's already trying very hard to shit all over Belichick's legacy after 20 year run of greatness.
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2024, 01:05:06 PM »
Tim comes off the best of the 3. Kraft was letting their private discussions out in the open. Bill still being Bill when asked about benching Butler.

Seeing how the players were really upset With Bill in 2017 was surprising though there were rumblings about that back then.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2024, 03:29:02 PM »
Tim comes off the best of the 3.

I sure as hell do!  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2024, 06:01:13 PM »
Auto correct! :lol

Tom. Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2024, 06:37:50 AM »
As a person who has hated the Patriots for years, it does my heart good to see all the Patriots fans here finally hate the Patriots as well lol
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2024, 07:50:38 AM »
Okay fine.  Say you’re right.  Do you keep throwing the guy under the bus continually in the months afterward?  Or do you move on gracefully and with class?  It’s maybe the one mistake he made in 50 years of coaching for fuck’s sake.  It’s like Kraft is a little kid trying to justify his move. 

Well, it's more than one mistake. You can't drive a team into the ground like he has with one mistake.

We are fundamentally at odds here; I don't see any landscape where Bill "drove a team into the ground".   He had two bad seasons, and we don't know - yet - what the real cause of Mac Jones' implosion was*, and if it was due to Bill, what the reasoning/rationale was behind the decisions he made.  I mean, Bill is a guy who's strategy was never EVER limited to between the white lines.   We do not know, for example, if he DID metaphorical "tank" the season to get the high draft pick.   Some of you are acting like Bill - a football genius by even his enemies' standard - forgot everything he knew about football in the space of a month.   He's leaving Mayo and Co. with a number three pick in a draft that is talent rich.   Fucking loser, amirite!!! :)

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That said, I'm 100% with you on Kraft. There's no such thing as Patriot Place without Brady AND Belichick. The "class" of Robert Kraft has always been a charade. And it's his own vanity that is finally opening people's eyes to it.

Robert Kraft was well within his right to dismiss Belichick. It was time, no matter how anyone feels about either of them. But he should've showered Bill with Thank Yous and not Fuck Yous on his way out the door.

I have no beef with the moving on, and you're right; he was well within his rights.  I don't like it, but I understand it.  I can absolutely see wanting a coach that can and will commit for a decade before you draft a stud quarterback.  Totally get it.  Cowboys did that with Landry and Johnson.  Genius.  But the right answer isn't to then try to paint every ill of the team on the loser asshole that was here before and pick nits to find stuff to be able to say "drove his team into the ground". 




* I am nothing if not a libertarian; Mac Jones is responsible for his arm, his legs, and his brain, not Bill B. Bill O., Matt P., or Josh M.  That interception against the Colts was on Mac Jones, period, just like that stupid fumble from Cam Newton against Buffalo was on him (how a 10 year vet doesn't know to carry the ball in his weak side hand is beyond me).  No coaching in the world could have prevented those mistakes from happening, short of a repeat of that other Buffalo game when Mac threw the ball three times.  I think Bill knew before all of us that Mac wasn't the guy, and did the best he could to make something of it.  Who else was he going to get in mid-season?   And he acquiesced to the outside pressure to bring in O'Brien and even HE couldn't make something of the kid.   C'mon.

Online King Postwhore

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #102 on: March 18, 2024, 08:16:11 AM »
3 bad seasons.  He didn't draft well from 2019 on.

He pushed Brady out the door.

He definitely messed up not having a secession plan when pushing Brady out the door.

When you are in charge of it all, it always falls at your feet.
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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #103 on: March 18, 2024, 08:50:40 AM »
3 bad seasons.  He didn't draft well from 2019 on.

He pushed Brady out the door.

He definitely messed up not having a secession plan when pushing Brady out the door.

When you are in charge of it all, it always falls at your feet.

I think it's simplifying things to say "he pushed Brady out the door".  I think this was not all Belichick's doing, and it wasn't all in his hands. 

And he HAD a plan; interim guy with Newton and then Mac Jones.  No one knew Mac was going to shit his pants on field.   So Belichick has to be PERFECT to get his due?  And not even have a chance to cure the problem? 

I don't disagree with it that "it all falls at your feet", but now that he's no longer there, it's a CHOICE to focus on the good things or the bad things, and I think now, some in a position to drive the narrative are not only focusing on the negative, but are seemingly going out of their way to FIND things to be negative about.  Okay, so Danny Amendola feels "betrayed" about Malcolm Butler. So? Who decided that Danny Amendola gets to set the standard about how we feel?  I don't know what went on with Butler and neither do you. 

And the draft is starting to be a one of those Mandela effect things (is that what it's called?).  This has the Pats as having a top 10 draft record over the last 20-some-odd years. ACTUAL STATS, not perception.

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Re: NFL 2024 season - off season chatter
« Reply #104 on: March 18, 2024, 08:52:22 AM »
As a person who has hated the Patriots for years, it does my heart good to see all the Patriots fans here finally hate the Patriots as well lol

I can't say "hate", but I really don't like the organization right now.  I wish the Gints had something better than Daniel Jones, because I'd go back to being a Giants fan.