NFL 2024 season - v. Greatest Pats...and 31 other cool teams

[TAC]

As a person who has hated the Patriots for years, it does my heart good to see all the Patriots fans here finally hate the Patriots as well lol

I can't say "hate", but I really don't like the organization right now.  I wish the Gints had something better than Daniel Jones, because I'd go back to being a Giants fan.

Typical Connecticut response. 

[El Barto]

3 bad seasons.  He didn't draft well from 2019 on.

He pushed Brady out the door.

He definitely messed up not having a secession plan when pushing Brady out the door.

When you are in charge of it all, it always falls at your feet.

I think it's simplifying things to say "he pushed Brady out the door".  I think this was not all Belichick's doing, and it wasn't all in his hands. 

And he HAD a plan; interim guy with Newton and then Mac Jones.  No one knew Mac was going to shit his pants on field.   So Belichick has to be PERFECT to get his due?  And not even have a chance to cure the problem? 

I don't disagree with it that "it all falls at your feet", but now that he's no longer there, it's a CHOICE to focus on the good things or the bad things, and I think now, some in a position to drive the narrative are not only focusing on the negative, but are seemingly going out of their way to FIND things to be negative about.  Okay, so Danny Amendola feels "betrayed" about Malcolm Butler. So? Who decided that Danny Amendola gets to set the standard about how we feel?  I don't know what went on with Butler and neither do you. 

And the draft is starting to be a one of those Mandela effect things (is that what it's called?).  This has the Pats as having a top 10 draft record over the last 20-some-odd years. ACTUAL STATS, not perception.

I still think it was inevitable that Brady would want to strike out on his own. I also think that King is right that he's a whiny little bitch.

As for Bill's drafting, I think it's rough because it doesn't jibe with the standard metric. His early picks, where you want them to be hits are often misses. Usually misses towards the end. At the same time I don't think there's any GM as good at finding the later round picks and UFAs. Michael Onwenu was a sixth round pick, yet he was the most sought after O lineman in the league this year. I'm not so bothered about crappy first rounders if you get first round talent in the 6th round. Or pull it out of your ass after the draft. While I do not think it's evened out, not even close, it does make his drafts better than they seem at first glance. We judge him by the N'Keal Harry's without even looking at the Jacobi Meyers's (who didn't even cost a pick).

Unrelated--I just watched a video of all of McCorkle's interceptions over 3 years, and holy shit did the wheels fall off of that kid. Looked like damn near all of his picks in 2021 hit receivers in the hands and got tipped. By 2023 he's throwing balls to empty space, or right to LBs and Ss looking for the ball. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it doesn't matter who's calling plays if your QB is throwing the ball 10yds behind his receivers.

[King Postwhore]

Nobody but Belichick knows what went on with Butler. LOL

I agree with the later picks El Barto but you do pay more money on the higher draft picks which has been very spotty the last 4 years. 

[El Barto]

Nobody but Belichick knows what went on with Butler. LOL

I agree with the later picks El Barto but you do pay more money on the higher draft picks which has been very spotty the last 4 years.

Like I clearly said, it doesn't even out. It does, however, make those drafts better than people think they were. People only focus on the first one or two rounds, and he whiffed on plenty of those. They don't focus on later rounds where a good scout can find real talent.

[King Postwhore]

When you have big misses like N'Keal Harry as an example it's hard not to think he failed. But Harris in the 3rd was a good pick.

[TAC]

Nobody but Belichick knows what went on with Butler. LOL

I agree with the later picks El Barto but you do pay more money on the higher draft picks which has been very spotty the last 4 years.

Like I clearly said, it doesn't even out. It does, however, make those drafts better than people think they were. People only focus on the first one or two rounds, and he whiffed on plenty of those. They don't focus on later rounds where a good scout can find real talent.

I think if you look at most team's drafts, they are probably all pretty similar. I don't think Bill's drafts are really all that different than most teams.

Bill is an excellent coach and teacher, so he's gotten the most out of a number of guys in the back half and of guys not drafted.

We judge him by the N'Keal Harry's without even looking at the Jacobi Meyers's (who didn't even cost a pick).

Is this the same Jakobi Myers that he wouldn't resign for just a million more and matched the Raiders in favor of paying a useless Juju much more than what Myers would've cost him?

And the draft is starting to be a one of those Mandela effect things (is that what it's called?).  This has the Pats as having a top 10 draft record over the last 20-some-odd years. ACTUAL STATS, not perception.

How about narrowing it down to the last 10 years? Isn't it the 2021 draft where there's nobody left?
Didn't they just hand out the first second contract in like 8 years?

* I am nothing if not a libertarian; Mac Jones is responsible for his arm, his legs, and his brain, not Bill B. Bill O., Matt P., or Josh M.  That interception against the Colts was on Mac Jones, period, just like that stupid fumble from Cam Newton against Buffalo was on him (how a 10 year vet doesn't know to carry the ball in his weak side hand is beyond me).  No coaching in the world could have prevented those mistakes from happening, short of a repeat of that other Buffalo game when Mac threw the ball three times.  I think Bill knew before all of us that Mac wasn't the guy, and did the best he could to make something of it.  Who else was he going to get in mid-season?   And he acquiesced to the outside pressure to bring in O'Brien and even HE couldn't make something of the kid.   C'mon.

Like all things related to the last 6-8 years of the Patriots drama, fault does not lie with one party 100%.  But I do think when Mac grows up and looks back, he'll likely regret not taking advantage of the opportunity he had. He was still QB1, and he really threw it away..

[El Barto]

We judge him by the N'Keal Harry's without even looking at the Jacobi Meyers's (who didn't even cost a pick).

Is this the same Jakobi Myers that he wouldn't resign for just a million more and matched the Raiders in favor of paying a useless Juju much more than what Myers would've cost him?

Completely unrelated to my point, but yes.

Personally, I think Bill fucked up on that, but not in the way people assume. The narrative is that he simply traded JM for JJSS. Not literally, of course, but got rid of one to sign another. My hunch is that he misread the market and figured he was going to get something better than JM. I have no real clue, but I always kind of figured that plans didn't work out for him and he settled for JJSS.


edit: Also, JJSS cost 7.5m less than JM.

[TAC]

We judge him by the N'Keal Harry's without even looking at the Jacobi Meyers's (who didn't even cost a pick).

Is this the same Jakobi Myers that he wouldn't resign for just a million more and matched the Raiders in favor of paying a useless Juju much more than what Myers would've cost him?

Completely unrelated to my point, but yes.

Personally, I think Bill fucked up on that, but not in the way people assume. The narrative is that he simply traded JM for JJSS. Not literally, of course, but got rid of one to sign another. My hunch is that he misread the market and figured he was going to get something better than JM. I have no real clue, but I always kind of figured that plans didn't work out for him and he settled for JJSS.


edit: Also, JJSS cost 7.5m less than JM.

Is that right? And yes, I know it was unrelated but I had to mention it. In Jakobi, he had a pretty dependable player. Still, it's an example of the kind of thing that had done this team in.

[Stadler]

Not anyone here, and I get that sports is basically fertile ground for this, but I have to remind, too, that Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME.   No one is saying that EVERY move is going to work out, it doesn't, but I think it's a safe assumption that when making these moves, he knows more than we do.  By a lot.  He had a reason, and "we" pay him for those reasons. 

When you go down the list of SUCCESSFUL draft picks, you can basically construct a legitimate, competitive "All Patriots Team" using ONLY players that Bill and his team have drafted.  Maybe it weights heavy to the early years, but some of that is to be expected; you don't always know if a guy is a bust in the first even three years.  And there WILL BE busts; the AVERAGE career in the NFL is what, 3.3 years?  Factor out the Bradys, the Cousins', the Flaccos, and you've got a LOT of guys - A LOT - that never make it out of their first training camp. 

I don't know; I don't mind being critical of Bill, several of the positions stated above are legitimate, even if I disagree with the magnitude of some of them.   I feel: a) that none of them are legitimate grounds for moving on from THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIME, and b) that some of this becoming an issue now that he's gone and can't really defend or remedy the situation, is part of my complaint.  I don't mind saying bad things about Bill - I'm not a starstruck teenager here - but the door is closed, and it seems to be ALL bad, and some of it very nit-picky and personal.   It's like breaking up with a girl and then making fun of her clothing choices and the music she listens to.  Have a little class. 

[hefdaddy42]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

[El Barto]

It's like breaking up with a girl and then making fun of her clothing choices and the music she listens to.  Have a little class.

Actually, more like producing an 8 part miniseries about how awful her clothing and musical tastes were.  Sometimes the volume of your ridicule looks worse for you than the target of your wrath.

I agree with your post, naturally, but the one thing I would reconsider is whether or not it was time to move on. I can't rule out the possibility that the situation had become toxic. Personally, I'd have brought in a new GM and overhauled the scouting department, but kept Belichick because of that GOAT coach thing, but sometimes relationships just become so awful that you have to move on, and this may well have been the case.

[Stadler]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

I think I covered that.  I never said he was beyond reproach.  I never said he didn't have faults.  But it seems here we're scrutinizing him and giving him the same benefit of the doubt - which is to say NONE - as Marty Morhinweg.   I think even acknowledging his last two bad seasons still means he had 22 seasons that most coaches would kill for.  That doesn't go out the window because Kraft is an insecure, sensitive egomaniac, yet we're falling right in line with that narrative it seems.

[King Postwhore]

We judge him by the N'Keal Harry's without even looking at the Jacobi Meyers's (who didn't even cost a pick).

Is this the same Jakobi Myers that he wouldn't resign for just a million more and matched the Raiders in favor of paying a useless Juju much more than what Myers would've cost him?

Completely unrelated to my point, but yes.

Personally, I think Bill fucked up on that, but not in the way people assume. The narrative is that he simply traded JM for JJSS. Not literally, of course, but got rid of one to sign another. My hunch is that he misread the market and figured he was going to get something better than JM. I have no real clue, but I always kind of figured that plans didn't work out for him and he settled for JJSS.


edit: Also, JJSS cost 7.5m less than JM.

Is that right? And yes, I know it was unrelated but I had to mention it. In Jakobi, he had a pretty dependable player. Still, it's an example of the kind of thing that had done this team in.

Yes that's correct but for that 7.5 ml more, you'd get much more production from Jakobi.

[King Postwhore]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

I think I covered that.  I never said he was beyond reproach.  I never said he didn't have faults.  But it seems here we're scrutinizing him and giving him the same benefit of the doubt - which is to say NONE - as Marty Morhinweg.   I think even acknowledging his last two bad seasons still means he had 22 seasons that most coaches would kill for.  That doesn't go out the window because Kraft is an insecure, sensitive egomaniac, yet we're falling right in line with that narrative it seems.

I think it's because it's fresh right now and it opened up old scabs that were upset with him pushing Brady towards free agency.

[El Barto]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

Interesting take. I kind of look back at it a bit differently, though. As much of a stubborn hardass as Bill was, TB12 shared the same team first approach (until he turned prima donna). TB legitimized the Patriot way by embracing it every bit as much as the HC. Once he left, along with some of the key assistant coaches (Scar and Fears, mainly), Bill was the only one left looking for that total commitment to the team. The winning obviously helps, but I think Brady's buy-in to Belichick's mentality was a bigger factor. They certainly complimented each other to create Patriot way.

[Stadler]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

[hunnus2000]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

Yes

[El Barto]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

Yes

I'd agree, but Bill's prices are off. A cheeseburger at 5G now is closer to $12. It might still be worth it, but I'm not buying it on general principle. The same might be true of a slot receiver in the NFL where there's a salary cap in place.

[King Postwhore]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

JuJu had 29 receptions and 260 yards, 1 Touchdown.
 

Jakobi had 71 receptions, 807 yards and 8 TD's.

[hefdaddy42]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

Interesting take. I kind of look back at it a bit differently, though. As much of a stubborn hardass as Bill was, TB12 shared the same team first approach (until he turned prima donna). TB legitimized the Patriot way by embracing it every bit as much as the HC. Once he left, along with some of the key assistant coaches (Scar and Fears, mainly), Bill was the only one left looking for that total commitment to the team. The winning obviously helps, but I think Brady's buy-in to Belichick's mentality was a bigger factor. They certainly complimented each other to create Patriot way.

I think this "Patriots Way" and "Total commitment to the team" is largely a myth.

[El Barto]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

JuJu had 29 receptions and 260 yards, 1 Touchdown.
 

Jakobi had 71 receptions, 807 yards and 8 TD's.

Comparing receivers on different teams doesn't really work out all that well. Jakobi didn't have MJ throwing the ball behind him all the time in LV. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was a bad move. I am disagreeing about the degree that it really mattered, though. I also think it might have made pretty good sense at the time, even if it didn't pan out.

[El Barto]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

Interesting take. I kind of look back at it a bit differently, though. As much of a stubborn hardass as Bill was, TB12 shared the same team first approach (until he turned prima donna). TB legitimized the Patriot way by embracing it every bit as much as the HC. Once he left, along with some of the key assistant coaches (Scar and Fears, mainly), Bill was the only one left looking for that total commitment to the team. The winning obviously helps, but I think Brady's buy-in to Belichick's mentality was a bigger factor. They certainly complimented each other to create Patriot way.

I think this "Patriots Way" and "Total commitment to the team" is largely a myth.

There are a whole lot of former players, both great ones and ones that were unceremoniously cut for not buying in, that would disagree with you.

[hefdaddy42]

Bill is THE GREATEST COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. 

Well, no one is disputing that.

But that doesn't make him the Pope of football.  You can recognize someone is the best ever at anything, but that doesn't ever make them beyond reproach, or disqualify them from criticism.  It might have seemed that way when Brady was there and they won all those trophies, but I suspect all of that success was masking some of these faults even then.

Interesting take. I kind of look back at it a bit differently, though. As much of a stubborn hardass as Bill was, TB12 shared the same team first approach (until he turned prima donna). TB legitimized the Patriot way by embracing it every bit as much as the HC. Once he left, along with some of the key assistant coaches (Scar and Fears, mainly), Bill was the only one left looking for that total commitment to the team. The winning obviously helps, but I think Brady's buy-in to Belichick's mentality was a bigger factor. They certainly complimented each other to create Patriot way.

I think this "Patriots Way" and "Total commitment to the team" is largely a myth.

There are a whole lot of former players, both great ones and ones that were unceremoniously cut for not buying in, that would disagree with you.

I'm sure there are.  Because they bought into it.

But each team has 53 active players, plus more on practice squads or are otherwise inactive.  And I think that most of those players, even on the championship teams, would probably scoff at such concepts.

It's the kind of thing that college teams used to say.  But how much "Patriots Way" and "total commitment to the team" is there when the GM cuts you at the end of the season?  That's propaganda, plain and simple.

[King Postwhore]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

JuJu had 29 receptions and 260 yards, 1 Touchdown.
 

Jakobi had 71 receptions, 807 yards and 8 TD's.

Comparing receivers on different teams doesn't really work out all that well. Jakobi didn't have MJ throwing the ball behind him all the time in LV. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was a bad move. I am disagreeing about the degree that it really mattered, though. I also think it might have made pretty good sense at the time, even if it didn't pan out.

Oh definitely.  But you can look to the 2 previous years for Jakobi with MJ.

2022 - 67 receptions. 804 yards. 6 TD's
2021 - 83 receptions, 866 yards.  2 TD's


They still look a hell of a lot better than JuJu.

[TAC]

But do you get $7.5M million more?  This is like that discussion on fast food burgers we had a couple months ago.   A Five Guys burger cost something like $8.50, and you can get a quarter pounder w/cheese for like $5.00.  The former is better, but is it more than 50% better?

JuJu had 29 receptions and 260 yards, 1 Touchdown.
 

Jakobi had 71 receptions, 807 yards and 8 TD's.

Comparing receivers on different teams doesn't really work out all that well. Jakobi didn't have MJ throwing the ball behind him all the time in LV. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was a bad move. I am disagreeing about the degree that it really mattered, though. I also think it might have made pretty good sense at the time, even if it didn't pan out.

Oh definitely.  But you can look to the 2 previous years for Jakobi with MJ.

2022 - 67 receptions. 804 yards. 6 TD's
2021 - 83 receptions, 866 yards.  2 TD's


They still look a hell of a lot better than JuJu.

Thank you. I was going to look at his previous year’s stats when I got home.

[King Postwhore]

It really should have been called, The Brady Way.  52 other player bought in because Brady allowed to be just one of the guys.  When Brady wanted more and less criticism from Bill, is when that "Myth" went away. 

[hefdaddy42]

It really should have been called, The Brady Way.  52 other player bought in because Brady allowed to be just one of the guys.  When Brady wanted more and less criticism from Bill, is when that "Myth" went away.

There you go.

[El Barto]

It really should have been called, The Brady Way.  52 other player bought in because Brady allowed to be just one of the guys.  When Brady wanted more and less criticism from Bill, is when that "Myth" went away.

There you go.

That's exactly what I said?

TB12 shared the same team first approach (until he turned prima donna). TB legitimized the Patriot way by embracing it every bit as much as the HC. Once he left, along with some of the key assistant coaches (Scar and Fears, mainly), Bill was the only one left looking for that total commitment to the team.

It wasn't a myth until BBB killed it.

I'd disagree about it being the Brady way, though. He was called Bill Bellicose in Cleveland for a reason. And it was similar to the way Parcells ran his ships. This was always the way Belichick wanted to do things. He just needed somebody like Brady to get the rest of the team to buy in.

[King Postwhore]

Well, if Tom doesn't buy in like he did, the rest probably wouldn't. He allowed Belichick to treat him at a level with all others.  I read so many times that other player were like, "Damn, if Brady can take it, so can I."
But the Guerrero thing, not backing him on deflategate, and the stress of his mom's cancer changed his outlook.

Add that he hD to fight to get 2 year deals and to have incentives on it, made him push away from playing for Bill.

[El Barto]

Well, if Tom doesn't buy in like he did, the rest probably wouldn't. He allowed Belichick to treat him at a level with all others.  I read so many times that other player were like, "Damn, if Brady can take it, so can I."
But the Guerrero thing, not backing him on deflategate, and the stress of his mom's cancer changed his outlook.

Add that he hD to fight to get 2 year deals and to have incentives on it, made him push away from playing for Bill.

I get it. Bitch Boy Brady blew the whole thing up. You don't have to sell me any further on that.

[Stadler]

Well, if Tom doesn't buy in like he did, the rest probably wouldn't. He allowed Belichick to treat him at a level with all others.  I read so many times that other player were like, "Damn, if Brady can take it, so can I."
But the Guerrero thing, not backing him on deflategate, and the stress of his mom's cancer changed his outlook.

Add that he hD to fight to get 2 year deals and to have incentives on it, made him push away from playing for Bill.

Respect, but you keep on harping on this and I'm not sure why.  This is not Bill's legacy.  Nothing goes forever; Brady is not the first player that was allowed to sow wild oats at the end of their career only to sign a one-day contract at retirement for the glory.   I don't get this line at all; no one on the planet except for Brady, Giselle and maybe Guererro could have called him winning a SB in Tampa like that.  And El Barto is 100% correct; had Brady not morphed into BBB he would have done like Montana, or Favre, let the Pats keep Garappolo (or whomever) and we wouldn't be here. That's not on Bill: EVERY SINGLE OTHER player left gracefully or not so gracefully ahead of the curve.  Not Brady, though, and I'm not sure why that tarnishes everything that Belichick built.   

[TAC]

I don't know; I don't mind being critical of Bill, several of the positions stated above are legitimate, even if I disagree with the magnitude of some of them.  I feel: a) that none of them are legitimate grounds for moving on from THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIME, and b) that some of this becoming an issue now that he's gone and can't really defend or remedy the situation, is part of my complaint. I don't mind saying bad things about Bill - I'm not a starstruck teenager here - but the door is closed, and it seems to be ALL bad, and some of it very nit-picky and personal.   It's like breaking up with a girl and then making fun of her clothing choices and the music she listens to.  Have a little class.

So, with regards to A, if you feel there are not legitimate grounds from moving on from Bill, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

But it's more than simply moving on from the GREATEST COACH IN HISTORY. Bill is more than a coach. He's head of....EVERYTHING. Every function related to the team passes Bill's desk. The entire program has deteriorated in the last 6-8 years. If this was JUST about THE coach, this would be a different conversation.

And as far as B...NONE of this is new news. The only one piling on Bill is Bob Kraft. And he's rightly been getting pushback from it. The deterioration of the relationships between Belichick, Brady, and Kraft has been very well documented. We may or may not ever hear from Bill. Mike Lombardi seemed to hint at the SB that there will be a public reckoning at some point from Bill's POV.
Bill can defend himself at any time. There's nothing stopping him from doing so.

[El Barto]

Bill can defend himself at any time. There's nothing stopping him from doing so.

Wanting to not be a slimeball?

[TAC]

Bill can defend himself at any time. There's nothing stopping him from doing so.

Wanting to not be a slimeball?

Certainly.

[King Postwhore]

Well, if Tom doesn't buy in like he did, the rest probably wouldn't. He allowed Belichick to treat him at a level with all others.  I read so many times that other player were like, "Damn, if Brady can take it, so can I."
But the Guerrero thing, not backing him on deflategate, and the stress of his mom's cancer changed his outlook.

Add that he hD to fight to get 2 year deals and to have incentives on it, made him push away from playing for Bill.

Respect, but you keep on harping on this and I'm not sure why.  This is not Bill's legacy.  Nothing goes forever; Brady is not the first player that was allowed to sow wild oats at the end of their career only to sign a one-day contract at retirement for the glory.   I don't get this line at all; no one on the planet except for Brady, Giselle and maybe Guererro could have called him winning a SB in Tampa like that.  And El Barto is 100% correct; had Brady not morphed into BBB he would have done like Montana, or Favre, let the Pats keep Garappolo (or whomever) and we wouldn't be here. That's not on Bill: EVERY SINGLE OTHER player left gracefully or not so gracefully ahead of the curve.  Not Brady, though, and I'm not sure why that tarnishes everything that Belichick built.

For me it doesn't tarnish his legacy. He has 8 rings. I just think the relationship soured.  Like any marriage  you compromise and ever e love and I feel like Belichick didn't.

He's still the greatest coach, ever.