A real fun "What If??" question to ask (Rick Wakeman and JRR Tolkien's Version)

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

People complain about trolls posting here and troll posts specifically, and yet many of those same people continue to post and respond, feeding the trolls and encouraging the very behavior you are complaining about.  If you don't want to deal with trolls, don't feed them.  Simple as that.

what exactly is trolling about asking about what-if scenarios with Dream Theater and alternate band members? Is creativity illegal?

just because you don't like my ideas or disagree with them doesn't make me a troll.

[Setlist Scotty]

People complain about trolls posting here and troll posts specifically, and yet many of those same people continue to post and respond, feeding the trolls and encouraging the very behavior you are complaining about.  If you don't want to deal with trolls, don't feed them.  Simple as that.

what exactly is trolling about asking about what-if scenarios with Dream Theater and alternate band members? Is creativity illegal?

just because you don't like my ideas or disagree with them doesn't make me a troll.

Your Kip Winger crap is the perfect description of trolling. 

[Max Kuehnau]

This is why I much prefer to stick to facts (with the odd comedic bit included here and there). Of course I'm not prone to the odd thing that is weird but you get the idea.

[Adami]

If it helps, I truly don't think this specific thread (at least before your Winger stuff) was trolling.

I think it was silly and a complete miss, but an honest attempt.

Sadly with something this silly, you're not going to have much discussion. It's either people responding legitimately saying "no" or giving joke responses (like mine). Not much actual discussion. Your point about Paul and Gene was even further in the "total miss" area.

However, a lot of your posts and threads do come off as trolling, attention seeking, and trying to insert pointless chaos for no apparent reason and then getting super upset and defensive when the forum responds in a way you didn't want.

[Skeever]

I actually spit out my coffee a few times laughing at HS posts. So I don't really see the big issue. I understand the stuff about rumors and not just making things up, but most of the time it's been silly fun. Maybe I'm just immature.

As for people complaining but then still engaging, two of the people doing the most of that are people who complain about pretty much everything. I don't think I even need to say anymore than that


I had to Google who Kip Winger was by the way. I am by no means a young man but thats a level of boomer byond me, and the whole bit of "oh he's dead, how tragic" followed immediately by "thank god it's not true, whoever that is" with the Wikipedia shenanigans going on in the background was hilarious to me.

[Stadler]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.   

[Adami]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

Good god man, have you learned NOTHING from The Incredibles and Watchmen??

DO YOU WANT A BLOODBATH?!?

[bosk1]

As for people complaining but then still engaging, two of the people doing the most of that are people who complain about pretty much everything. I don't think I even need to say anymore than that

Yes, good point.  But many have complained in the past (and in this thread) who have a legit gripe.

If it helps, I truly don't think this specific thread (at least before your Winger stuff) was trolling.

I think it was silly and a complete miss, but an honest attempt.

Sadly with something this silly, you're not going to have much discussion. It's either people responding legitimately saying "no" or giving joke responses (like mine). Not much actual discussion. Your point about Paul and Gene was even further in the "total miss" area.

However, a lot of your posts and threads do come off as trolling, attention seeking, and trying to insert pointless chaos for no apparent reason and then getting super upset and defensive when the forum responds in a way you didn't want.

This is probably a much better description. 

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.   

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

If it helps, I truly don't think this specific thread (at least before your Winger stuff) was trolling.

I think it was silly and a complete miss, but an honest attempt.

Sadly with something this silly, you're not going to have much discussion. It's either people responding legitimately saying "no" or giving joke responses (like mine). Not much actual discussion. Your point about Paul and Gene was even further in the "total miss" area.

However, a lot of your posts and threads do come off as trolling, attention seeking, and trying to insert pointless chaos for no apparent reason and then getting super upset and defensive when the forum responds in a way you didn't want.

can you share some idea on how to make my posts less of a mess? i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

also as we already documented, the winger thing was just a silly joke wolfking was playing on me (another piece of evidence to the above line)

also as my hiatus thread was locked, i guess that means i'm back

have a great day everyone

[Adami]

If it helps, I truly don't think this specific thread (at least before your Winger stuff) was trolling.

I think it was silly and a complete miss, but an honest attempt.

Sadly with something this silly, you're not going to have much discussion. It's either people responding legitimately saying "no" or giving joke responses (like mine). Not much actual discussion. Your point about Paul and Gene was even further in the "total miss" area.

However, a lot of your posts and threads do come off as trolling, attention seeking, and trying to insert pointless chaos for no apparent reason and then getting super upset and defensive when the forum responds in a way you didn't want.

can you share some idea on how to make my posts less of a mess? i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

also as we already documented, the winger thing was just a silly joke wolfking was playing on me (another piece of evidence to the above line)

also as my hiatus thread was locked, i guess that means i'm back

have a great day everyone

So everything in this post after your question was an example of what not to necessarily say.

[emtee]

In the spirit of trying to help, though I'm not really sure if that's what you want, you've gone down the 'what if' path a few times, you've gone down the 'rumor and discord' path a few times and should have learned some key takeaways from them. You've also asked for multiple suggestions previously about rules, acceptable posts, etc.

Maybe try a more mature approach.

[Setlist Scotty]

can you share some idea on how to make my posts less of a mess? i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

I got online almost 30 years ago, and back then there was this thing called "netiquette" - online etiquette. To make sure you didn't do something offensive or cross some sort of line, it was best to simply silently observe (AKA "lurk") for a while until you got a feel for the community you were trying to be a part of. For example, I was most interested in getting involved with the Ytsejam Mailing List, which was the e-mail precursor to the online forums like this one. I don't recall how long I lurked, but it was probably at least a couple months before I dipped my toe in the water with my first post.

With the internet being the norm and so widespread these days, the idea of following netiquette and lurking for a bit before going full force in posting is something that seems to be long lost. Looking at your profile, while you joined here on August 4 and waited 2 weeks to post, from that point onward you've repeatedly posted a barrage of various messages so that you average almost 7 posts per day. It's better for you to slow down and think twice before posting, asking yourself what is the general reaction to my post going to be? And maybe even ask yourself is it really necessary that I post this? Not saying that you can't post various hypotheticals, even like this thread, but don't always expect to get a great response.

Finally, I get the feeling you're trying to draw attention to yourself with some of your over-the-top posts. Maybe that's the case, maybe not. Either way, for someone new to the forum to do this comes off as annoying and obnoxious. Think of it this way: if you were to start working at a new job, after a couple of days would you start speaking to people like they're your bestest buddies in forever and drawing attention to yourself? I'd hope not. Best to start out with your head down, focused on the job you were hired to do, and then gradually open up as you get to know your co-workers better.

[energythief]

Setlist Scotty offers some great advice. Read it, and take it to heart.


I'd recommend working on some better capitalization and punctuation as well. It will make your posts seem more intentional and less rambling.

[pg1067]

I suddenly really miss wild ranger

I'd rather have him back....

[hefdaddy42]

i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

I don't think anyone hates you.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Setlist Scotty offers some great advice. Read it, and take it to heart.


I'd recommend working on some better capitalization and punctuation as well. It will make your posts seem more intentional and less rambling.

i appreciate this advice, but lower case (usually) and few punctuation is just my style. think e e cummings

can you share some idea on how to make my posts less of a mess? i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

I got online almost 30 years ago, and back then there was this thing called "netiquette" - online etiquette. To make sure you didn't do something offensive or cross some sort of line, it was best to simply silently observe (AKA "lurk") for a while until you got a feel for the community you were trying to be a part of. For example, I was most interested in getting involved with the Ytsejam Mailing List, which was the e-mail precursor to the online forums like this one. I don't recall how long I lurked, but it was probably at least a couple months before I dipped my toe in the water with my first post.

With the internet being the norm and so widespread these days, the idea of following netiquette and lurking for a bit before going full force in posting is something that seems to be long lost. Looking at your profile, while you joined here on August 4 and waited 2 weeks to post, from that point onward you've repeatedly posted a barrage of various messages so that you average almost 7 posts per day. It's better for you to slow down and think twice before posting, asking yourself what is the general reaction to my post going to be? And maybe even ask yourself is it really necessary that I post this? Not saying that you can't post various hypotheticals, even like this thread, but don't always expect to get a great response.

Finally, I get the feeling you're trying to draw attention to yourself with some of your over-the-top posts. Maybe that's the case, maybe not. Either way, for someone new to the forum to do this comes off as annoying and obnoxious. Think of it this way: if you were to start working at a new job, after a couple of days would you start speaking to people like they're your bestest buddies in forever and drawing attention to yourself? I'd hope not. Best to start out with your head down, focused on the job you were hired to do, and then gradually open up as you get to know your co-workers better.

i think that helps a little bit. i am an intense person and when i get ideas i tend to just "go for the post", as they say, because if i don't then, maybe nobody will ever have the same idea again, and i might forget. i have trouble communicating with people sometimes due to some disabilities but i think overall taking a step back, breathing, and posting with my best foot forward will be something i try to do more

cheers all, have a great day

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

can you share some idea on how to make my posts less of a mess? i want to be a member of the community but i keep trying and everyone seems to hate me and my thoughts

I got online almost 30 years ago, and back then there was this thing called "netiquette" - online etiquette. To make sure you didn't do something offensive or cross some sort of line, it was best to simply silently observe (AKA "lurk") for a while until you got a feel for the community you were trying to be a part of. For example, I was most interested in getting involved with the Ytsejam Mailing List, which was the e-mail precursor to the online forums like this one. I don't recall how long I lurked, but it was probably at least a couple months before I dipped my toe in the water with my first post.

With the internet being the norm and so widespread these days, the idea of following netiquette and lurking for a bit before going full force in posting is something that seems to be long lost. Looking at your profile, while you joined here on August 4 and waited 2 weeks to post, from that point onward you've repeatedly posted a barrage of various messages so that you average almost 7 posts per day. It's better for you to slow down and think twice before posting, asking yourself what is the general reaction to my post going to be? And maybe even ask yourself is it really necessary that I post this? Not saying that you can't post various hypotheticals, even like this thread, but don't always expect to get a great response.

Finally, I get the feeling you're trying to draw attention to yourself with some of your over-the-top posts. Maybe that's the case, maybe not. Either way, for someone new to the forum to do this comes off as annoying and obnoxious. Think of it this way: if you were to start working at a new job, after a couple of days would you start speaking to people like they're your bestest buddies in forever and drawing attention to yourself? I'd hope not. Best to start out with your head down, focused on the job you were hired to do, and then gradually open up as you get to know your co-workers better.

These are all great points. I started dipping my toe into the online world about the same time as you, perhaps a few years after, but it was the same kind of mindset back then too. Netiquette, as you call it, was definitely a thing that seems to have gone by the wayside over the last 10 years or so.

To put it in perspective a bit. I've been posting on this forum for almost 7 years now and I've only ever created 9 forum topics in that time and 4 of them were for my 4 separate song roulettes over on the general music side. That's not to say you shouldn't create more topics than that, but take to heart what Scotty is saying just a little bit.

[crystalstars17]

i have trouble communicating with people sometimes due to some disabilities but i think overall taking a step back, breathing, and posting with my best foot forward will be something i try to do more

cheers all, have a great day

Everyone here could be a bit more understanding. He's apologized, explained himself, and wished you well. But we can all be a little less elitist, especially given the circumstances he's described. A little more compassion would suit you better, even if technically you are right.

[Setlist Scotty]

i have trouble communicating with people sometimes due to some disabilities but i think overall taking a step back, breathing, and posting with my best foot forward will be something i try to do more

cheers all, have a great day

Everyone here could be a bit more understanding. He's apologized, explained himself, and wished you well. But we can all be a little less elitist, especially given the circumstances he's described. A little more compassion would suit you better, even if technically you are right.

Not disagreeing with you, but in all fairness, this is the first time I'm aware of that HS has said anything about this at all, not unlike the situation with Max. Of course we should treat everyone kindly - I firmly believe that and I think Bosk would always want us to do that. But when someone begins to post in an offensive way, while there is the possibility that the person has such disabilities, more often it turns out to be someone trolling as is very evident on some of the other discussion forums, and so while their posts may be tolerated initially, in time others may tend to respond more sarcastically because of perceived trolling (whether it truly is or is not).

Likewise, I'm not trying to scold HS by saying this as I've already written to him and he has accepted it, but in general, if someone knows that they struggle with communicating properly, then shouldn't they take extra steps to be extra careful as well, especially initially when meeting a new group of people? I think it goes both ways.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I've only ever created 9 forum topics in that time and 4 of them were for my 4 separate song roulettes over on the general music side.

i hear what you're saying but i think some of us just were born to post

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i have trouble communicating with people sometimes due to some disabilities but i think overall taking a step back, breathing, and posting with my best foot forward will be something i try to do more

cheers all, have a great day

Everyone here could be a bit more understanding. He's apologized, explained himself, and wished you well. But we can all be a little less elitist, especially given the circumstances he's described. A little more compassion would suit you better, even if technically you are right.

Not disagreeing with you, but in all fairness, this is the first time I'm aware of that HS has said anything about this at all, not unlike the situation with Max. Of course we should treat everyone kindly - I firmly believe that and I think Bosk would always want us to do that. But when someone begins to post in an offensive way, while there is the possibility that the person has such disabilities, more often it turns out to be someone trolling as is very evident on some of the other discussion forums, and so while their posts may be tolerated initially, in time others may tend to respond more sarcastically because of perceived trolling (whether it truly is or is not).

Likewise, I'm not trying to scold HS by saying this as I've already written to him and he has accepted it, but in general, if someone knows that they struggle with communicating properly, then shouldn't they take extra steps to be extra careful as well, especially initially when meeting a new group of people? I think it goes both ways.

it's not something i've mentioned publicly previously just mentioned it to a few folks in dms. not trying to excuse anything or continue to harp on it, was just providing context

[crystalstars17]

Not disagreeing with you, but in all fairness, this is the first time I'm aware of that HS has said anything about this at all, not unlike the situation with Max. Of course we should treat everyone kindly - I firmly believe that and I think Bosk would always want us to do that. But when someone begins to post in an offensive way, while there is the possibility that the person has such disabilities, more often it turns out to be someone trolling as is very evident on some of the other discussion forums, and so while their posts may be tolerated initially, in time others may tend to respond more sarcastically because of perceived trolling (whether it truly is or is not).

Likewise, I'm not trying to scold HS by saying this as I've already written to him and he has accepted it, but in general, if someone knows that they struggle with communicating properly, then shouldn't they take extra steps to be extra careful as well, especially initially when meeting a new group of people? I think it goes both ways.

Of course, we all should be able to learn from our mistakes. However now that he has admitted to these issues, I rather hope that the sarcasm stops. Anything less (and this is not directed at you) is dangerously close to cyberbullying.

[Skeever]

Though it could have been presented better, I still think the main premise of this thread is interesting enough to talk about.
And more interesting to me than "So-and-so's 4th Song Roulette", sorry.

There's a lot of different moods to be found on this forum. You can sit in the Agora with Barto and Stadler, or the fogey dive with Tac and Wolf. HS brings a different vibe, kind of reminds me of the discussion you'd have processing the returns at the video rental store on a weekday morning. It's... not bad.

And yeah, it is an implausible "what-if". But if Devin and Mike P decided to make an album together, with or without any combination of the others, that album would instantly catapult to my most anticipated released in a long, long time.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Though it could have been presented better, I still think the main premise of this thread is interesting enough to talk about.
And more interesting to me than "So-and-so's 4th Song Roulette", sorry.

I don't know if you missed my point or not, but it was just my way of saying perhaps HS could take the foot off the gas on posting new topics so often. I'm not saying they shouldn't post topics, just give the topics a little more thought before posting.

To be clear, I honestly have nothing against HS. I even posted my thoughts on the topic, which was immediately overlooked (that's how it goes sometimes), and engaged in a little light ribbing based on previous exchanges.

[bosk1]

Anything less (and this is not directed at you) is dangerously close to cyberbullying.

No, not at all.  Cyberbullying has never been tolerated here and never will be.  Calling out bad behavior is not cyberbullying, regardless what label anyone tries to assign to it.

[crystalstars17]

Anything less (and this is not directed at you) is dangerously close to cyberbullying.

No, not at all.  Cyberbullying has never been tolerated here and never will be.  Calling out bad behavior is not cyberbullying, regardless what label anyone tries to assign to it.

My apologies, it's just my nature to stick up for the underdog. I don't condone the bad behavior any more than the next person, and at first I can see how it did look like trolling. But after he mentioned having a disability, all I could see was the disadvantaged kid on the playground with all the big boys and cool kids throwing things at him. I suppose my inner nurturer/defender/idealist got the better of me.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I DIDN'T HAVE THIS ONE

The hunt is back on!

[TAC]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

[crystalstars17]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

Who is that?!?!?  He looks like King Thranduil from The Hobbit.

[TAC]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

Who is that?!?!?  He looks like King Thranduil from The Hobbit.

Who is that??


The pic is Rick Wakeman.

[crystalstars17]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

Who is that?!?!?  He looks like King Thranduil from The Hobbit.

Who is that??


The pic is Rick Wakeman.

Ok thank you, I just googled this guy. Apparently he did look like King Thranduil, once upon a time. An Elf king who could play keyboards. Good heavens, I really was born too late... 

[HOF]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

Who is that?!?!?  He looks like King Thranduil from The Hobbit.

Who is that??


The pic is Rick Wakeman.

Ok thank you, I just googled this guy. Apparently he did look like King Thranduil, once upon a time. An Elf king who could play keyboards. Good heavens, I really was born too late... 

He was in the same band as literal Elrond.

[crystalstars17]

You're pulling my leg.. 

Thranduil is prettier! 😍

[bosk1]

Anything less (and this is not directed at you) is dangerously close to cyberbullying.

No, not at all.  Cyberbullying has never been tolerated here and never will be.  Calling out bad behavior is not cyberbullying, regardless what label anyone tries to assign to it.

My apologies, it's just my nature to stick up for the underdog. I don't condone the bad behavior any more than the next person, and at first I can see how it did look like trolling. But after he mentioned having a disability, all I could see was the disadvantaged kid on the playground with all the big boys and cool kids throwing things at him. I suppose my inner nurturer/defender/idealist got the better of me.

And that's good and commendable, and I'm glad we have people here like you that are willing to speak up about stuff like that. 

[Indiscipline]

Devin doesn't do anything for me, so my fun dream scenario would be if Rick Wakeman replaced Jordan Rudess and brought an arsenal of vintage synths and Hammond organs with him. Never really liked Jordan's minimalist approach or his choice of sounds tbh.

This reminds me; I was thinking this weekend that capes are cool. I wish capes would make a come back.

I guess that makes you a ... cape crusader.

Who is that?!?!?  He looks like King Thranduil from The Hobbit.

Who is that??


The pic is Rick Wakeman.

HA!

How does it feel on this side of the "WTF is?"