Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?

[nikatapi]

I think James can sing anything. If you change some vocal melodies on particular songs it will be fine. No matter what James still has the power considering his age.

The problem is mostly he is out of tune and has pitch problem. From the last tour he sounded powerful on BITS but out of tune as hell. He sounded beautiful on Solitary Shell and Losing Time but pitchy again. That takes it all. It's like James sings them for the first time on the stage.

100% agree. I think that the band needs to work on alternate melodies wherever they think that it needs to be done so as to support more sustainable (and stable) performances from James.

I have the feeling that most of the times James either goes for notes he is not confident of hitting, or he improvises on the spot, with various degrees of success.
He has been a pitchy singer for a big part of his career, so this is definitely something that would be worth focusing on, maybe working with a vocal coach again to get him on the right track.

[MoraWintersoul]

I've kind of decided not to worry about how James will sing on the upcoming tour. I saw him on the View tour, and like I said a couple of times, I would rate that performance no higher than a 4/10. He was struggling with all elements of singing throughout - pleasant tone, accuracy of pitch, power, clarity, and so on. And that's with long instrumental sections and choosing some easier pieces to sing - and then, absolutely blasting the venue with backing vocals on tape. I managed to focus just fine on James and how he was doing through the wall of sound, but I've read three reviews of my show where reviewers mentioned they had trouble discerning what was going on.

So while I would like them to build a part of the setlist over songs that were easier to sing but still were hits on their respective tours, as well as songs where Mike and John can really help out, we can't really expect the setlist to build the entire bridge to a good performance by James. Like TheBarstoolWarrior said, he struggles a bit in all pitches and styles nowadays, some more than others, but it's clear as day that there is a problem. James has been carrying on as if it's 2012 and he's out backstage singing scale warmups and singing into a straw and drinking herbal tea, but I'd rather him transfer that time and discipline (that he still clearly has) into figuring out what's wrong and how to actually fix it. Mike Portnoy is for sure capable of sitting down with tapes and mapping out pitches and phrases and "song difficulties" James does slightly better nowadays and building partly around that, but imagine if he didn't have to do that.

[emtee]

I sure wish we weren't having this discussion and that any song in the bands catalog could be played and executed by all members of the band. It is what it is I guess. I'll bet JLB has been working hard behind the scenes to perform consistently well. I think he wants to very badly.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'll bet JLB has been working hard behind the scenes to perform consistently well. I think he wants to very badly.

I'm SURE he is. It's just that I'm not sure his work is paying off, just based on the results. It seems that every time James talks vocals, it's always the following: "I don't mess around with living a healthy lifestyle while on tour, I do a lot of warmups and cooldowns and I practice in this-and-that manner, I baby my voice, I get tips from my friend and guru Jaime Vendera, I'm an expert in my voice and I know I try my best." This last statement always kind of gets me, because it may not necessarily be true. He may be trying his hardest but he's not doing his best, and he may be looking at his voice and singing condition from a "during my whole lifetime" or "since my injury" or "the last twenty years" perspective, not a "these last couple of years"-perspective.

Like, what if there's someone better than Jaime Vendera - who isn't necessarily even actively vocal coaching him nowadays in the sense that they meet up for lessons and checkups - out there for him. What if he could relax on how many hours of sleep he gets and how many beers he drinks if he really did cardio instead, a lot of singers in pop and metal mention that really helps them with singing the whole show and he hasn't ever really mentioned that. What if he could cut down his warmup and practice time but replace it with something that works better, that he isn't necessarily aware of, like Crystal mentioned, that would fix his muscle memory. There's always a way to work smarter and not harder.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It could be the case that JLB is totally pleased with how things went on the last tour and doesn't think he needs to do anything differently. We are really in the dark as to their mindset.

[RaiseTheKnife]

With MP back in the band, there is a chance of then playing The Best of Times now. I have a feeling we won't see it though.

I hope it at least gets discussed within the band sometime in the future.

[Skeever]

It could be the case that JLB is totally pleased with how things went on the last tour and doesn't think he needs to do anything differently. We are really in the dark as to their mindset.

Exactly.

[Lonk]

With MP back in the band, there is a chance of then playing The Best of Times now. I have a feeling we won't see it though.

I hope it at least gets discussed within the band sometime in the future.

Same here. I think the song would translate nicely to a live setting, specially the chorus.

[Kram]

It could be the case that JLB is totally pleased with how things went on the last tour and doesn't think he needs to do anything differently. We are really in the dark as to their mindset.

Exactly.

Lol. Sorry, this made me chuckle. How could he, or the band for that matter, be pleased with how he's been performing the last couple of tours? I'm not bashing on James, he's one of my favorite singers of all time.  I just can't imagine any of them could be "pleased with how things went on the last tour".  These are musicians at the highest level (Jordan has perfect pitch, it has to be hurting his ears). Again, I don't want to bash on him, and would like nothing more than to see him improve this next tour.  He was great on the D/T tour in 2019.  That was only 5 years ago - so I have faith he can turn it around (I'm hoping MP return will motivate him further). But I can't imagine they think everything is "fine" with James (and I know you're not saying that is the case). But they HAVE to be discussing this behind the scenes.

[Schurftkut]

if it was a big enough problem, the announcement would've been "MP rejoins, Dino Jelusick replaces JLB"  (or something like that)

[Indiscipline]

It could be the case that JLB is totally pleased with how things went on the last tour and doesn't think he needs to do anything differently. We are really in the dark as to their mindset.

I strongly doubt it. Honestly, and I'm not saying it's intentional on your part, that implies a lack of self-awareness and professionalism on James' behalf that borders insult.

[Adami]

Didn’t JP say he mostly just has the instruments in his mix? Maybe the instrumentalists don’t hear JLB enough to care.

[efx]

It could be the case that JLB is totally pleased with how things went on the last tour and doesn't think he needs to do anything differently. We are really in the dark as to their mindset.

His "admission" or whatever that's quoted in the other thread I think shows an awareness he hasn't publically let on before. That and coupled with his on stage mentions of the live backing track stuff kind of points towards being aware of it. Now, whether something happens is anyones guess, I'm hoping it does.

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah I agree with efx. He's certainly aware of the comments if not anything else, and they do get to him. John has guitar in place of the vocals in his live mix, so he isn't really listening. The rest of the instrumentalists we don't have a read on because they haven't really said anything to our knowledge, and seeing what happened between James and Mike the last time someone raised an issue with James' performance, they may not necessarily want to. And Mike may just be happy they're back together and not want to rock the boat the first tour anyway.

[Skeever]

And that's why I'm a bit fretful. They haven't addressed or acknowledged it, but what they have done is basically already guaranteed max attendance for the next tour. So if they're addressing James, it's all in the background, but maybe they figure there's really no need.

[Samsara]

re: James - I think JLB is well aware of all his vocal limitations. While I don't know the man, I am sure he's taking steps to identify where his problem areas are, and working to maximize what he can bring to the table. What that translates to, in terms of song choice from the back catalog, will be what it is.

Like it or not, MP's return signals the end is coming. Whether that's after the next record and tour cycle, or in 10 years, the end is nigh. They'll play what they want to play, and JLB will have to navigate it. That's his job. My guess is, he's going to spend a lot of time not only working on his voice, but modifying everything to fit his voice. He's admitted he can't sing like he once did. That took guts, and I applaud him for it. Now, he'll change what he can, and when he goes for certain high spots, he'll do it when it feels right.

I look at this very much like how Ray Alder make a conscious decision to flatten out or take out most of the high notes in all Fates Warning's stuff. He did it in a masterful way, where it still sounds wonderful. He obviously took a good hard look at all the songs he was going to sing live, and figured out how he could still sing them in a beautiful manner. I expect JLB, now that he's admitted he can't sing like he used to, to do the same.

All that said, what I HOPE for, on the next tour:

1. A 10-minute medley of stuff from the first album, as a tribute to Charlie.
2. Three tunes from Mangini's era to pay respect to their success with him: The Alien, On the Backs of Angels, The Enemy Inside (all either a Grammy win, or Grammy-nominated)
3. Two new songs
4. Two from I&W (PMU/Metropolis)
5. Two from SFAM (25 years)
6. Two from ToT (20 years)

>>>To me, that would be a beautiful reunion show with MP, an acknowledgement of their past, a tribute to a fallen comrade, a celebration of victories, and a pointed look toward the future.

[TAC]

No chance you're getting three Mangini tunes.

[Samsara]

No chance you're getting three Mangini tunes.

DT would be doing themselves and their award-nominated/winning catalog a disservice if them playing those songs didn't happen. But yeah, I could see two instead of three.

[TAC]

No chance you're getting three Mangini tunes.

DT would be doing themselves and their award-nominated/winning catalog a disservice if them playing those songs didn't happen. But yeah, I could see two instead of three.

Two and you'll be lucky.

[bosk1]

I highly doubt that it would be considered "lucky."  I think 3 is pretty likely, and 2 is the bare minimum realistically. 

[TAC]

Trust me Bosk, I hope you're right. We'll see I guess.

[DTwwbwMP]

....what I HOPE for, on the next tour:

1. A 10-minute medley of stuff from the first album, as a tribute to Charlie.
2. Three tunes from Mangini's era to pay respect to their success with him: The Alien, On the Backs of Angels, The Enemy Inside (all either a Grammy win, or Grammy-nominated)
3. Two new songs
4. Two from I&W (PMU/Metropolis)
5. Two from SFAM (25 years)
6. Two from ToT (20 years)

>>>To me, that would be a beautiful reunion show with MP, an acknowledgement of their past, a tribute to a fallen comrade, a celebration of victories, and a pointed look toward the future.

For ME personally, this is why I want the reunion tour BEFORE the album cycle tour. I want the reunion shows to feature ONLY '85-'10 material (YES, even Raw Dog) . NO MM songs at all.
Get that out of the way, embrace MP back in the driver's seat, put out the new cd afterwards and then from all future tours, use the ENTIRE catalog (at least what JLB can manage). BEST of ALL worlds.

[Samsara]

Mike,

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM. Even MORE successful than they were with MP, in terms of public notoriety. I fully expect the three tunes I named being rotated throughout their sets for the rest of their career. And that's not a big deal for me, personally. Good songs, great success.

Tim -- I think it is very likely that we'll get more MM material than you think, primarily because of the song half of the original post title: "What can James sing?" Well, while he's had his struggles, he's obviously going to be more comfortable singing stuff from the recent albums over say...Take the Time, or Learning to Live.

Anyway, interesting speculation. Excited to find out.

[gborland]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

[Skeever]

I think people talking about the band mitigating James's vocal issues via song choice are really missing the point. The fact that he can't really sing the way he did 20 years ago is nothing new, and something the band have managed around.

The problem now is that he cannot sing the way that he sang in the studio. The range thing is what it is, but not being able to hit stuff right in his pocket was the far more alarming thing for me.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

Dream Theater is a private entity, so how do you know when the 'commercial peak' was?

EDIT: to be clear, I think what you're saying is very possible and would make MP's return all the more logical from my perspective, but I am just curious how one knows the trajectory of the sales numbers since they don't publish them.

[DTwwbwMP]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

THIS ABSOLUTELY. At least since "The UNastonishing". And, with all due respect, the GRAMMY for a song like "The Alien" means NOTHING to the general public. That had ZERO IMPACT in bringing in new fans.

[DTwwbwMP]

Mike,

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM. Even MORE successful than they were with MP, in terms of public notoriety.

Luv ya Bri, but respectfully, HIGHLY DISAGREE.

[Samsara]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

I was talking about the Grammy win and three overall nominations.

[Madman Shepherd]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

Based on what? There are ways of finding exact numbers but I'm not aware of anybody that has access to that. All I can go off of are purely anecdotal evidence but it appeared to me that concert attendance actually went up slightly after MP left. It stayed about level for several years. Maybe it dropped off a bit after a while. The last tours seemed to have pretty subpar attendance but they were also playing much bigger venues on the last one and the one before that was in an oversaturated market with covid making a rapid return. Tthankfully a much less severe variant which we didn't necessarily know at the time. I even came close to skipping the show for that reason.

[DTwwbwMP]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

I was talking about the Grammy win and three overall nominations.

Well, the Grammys to me ARE, HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, AND WILL ALWAYS BE 

[DTwwbwMP]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

Based on what? There are ways of finding exact numbers but I'm not aware of anybody that has access to that. All I can go off of are purely anecdotal evidence but it appeared to me that concert attendance actually went up slightly after MP left. It stayed about level for several years. Maybe it dropped off a bit after a while. The last tours seemed to have pretty subpar attendance but they were also playing much bigger venues on the last one and the one before that was in an oversaturated market with covid making a rapid return. Thankfully a much less severe variant which we didn't necessarily know at the time. I even came close to skipping the show for that reason.

I can only speak for the bunch of shows I attended but my synopsis is:
ADTOE & DT Tours = Shows seemed equally attended on par with prior recent past tours.
TA tour is where things started falling off and that unnecessary second leg of tour could've been played in my back yard!
DOT Tours = Better attended than the TA tour but still LOTS of open sections.
The View tour = Did not do well at all, with the upper balconies almost completely empty.
Dreamsonic tour = OBVIOUSLY an embarrassingly bad showing and what turned out to be the last straw!

[Madman Shepherd]

DT was incredibly successful in the public eye with MM.

Ticket sales would suggest otherwise. Their commercial peak was the start of the RR era, and since MP left it's been steadily declining.

Based on what? There are ways of finding exact numbers but I'm not aware of anybody that has access to that. All I can go off of are purely anecdotal evidence but it appeared to me that concert attendance actually went up slightly after MP left. It stayed about level for several years. Maybe it dropped off a bit after a while. The last tours seemed to have pretty subpar attendance but they were also playing much bigger venues on the last one and the one before that was in an oversaturated market with covid making a rapid return. Thankfully a much less severe variant which we didn't necessarily know at the time. I even came close to skipping the show for that reason.

I can only speak for the bunch of shows I attended but my synopsis is:
ADTOE & DT Tours = Shows seemed equally attended on par with prior recent past tours.
TA tour is where things started falling off and that unnecessary second leg of tour could've been played in my back yard!

Yeah I didn't bother with the second leg...or the second half of the show I saw on the first leg

[DTwwbwMP]

Funny thing is, I didn't HATE the astonishing shows I saw anywhere close to how I hate(d) the album. I thought JLB did an impressive job.

[DTwwbwMP]

Brought my wife to a show on the 2nd leg thinking she might like the disney-esque attempt......uh, no!   What I got in the car was..."THIS IS THE BAND YOU ARE ALWAYS CARRYING ON ABOUT"! Spent the whole ride home trying to explain to no avail. LOL