Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?

[wasteland]

From IAW: PMU (out of sheer practice, his vocal cords must be practically PMU-shaped at this point), Metropolis, WFS, LTL (lot of long breaks, really only a note + a verse that are challenging)

From Awake: TSM, The Mirror, Lie, LSOAD, Scarred (borderline), SDV

From ACOS: ACOS

From FII: Essentially everything, the Trial Of Tears bridge melody can be remodulated to accomodate the lower range.

From SFAM onwards: Everything

[Zydar]

Speaking of Space-Dye Vest. Do you guys think they will continue with it now that MP's back? Wasn't he really the most against playing it live?

[bosk1]

Speaking of Space-Dye Vest. Do you guys think they will continue with it now that MP's back? Wasn't he really the most against playing it live?

I don't think it will be played, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with MP.  I think them bringing it out for one tour was meant to be a special thing that will not likely be repeated.

And I'm not sure why the clamoring all of a sudden for Breaking All Illusions.  There are 8 better songs on that album alone.

[TAC]

Speaking of Space-Dye Vest. Do you guys think they will continue with it now that MP's back? Wasn't he really the most against playing it live?

I don't think it will be played, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with MP.  I think them bringing it out for one tour was meant to be a special thing that will not likely be repeated.

And I'm not sure why the clamoring all of a sudden for Breaking All Illusions.  There are 8 better songs on that album alone.

Knock it off!

[Madman Shepherd]

Speaking of Space-Dye Vest. Do you guys think they will continue with it now that MP's back? Wasn't he really the most against playing it live?

I don't think it will be played, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with MP.  I think them bringing it out for one tour was meant to be a special thing that will not likely be repeated.

Not likely? I mean sure it was a special thing but not a "one tour only" special thing. The only thing I'm sure will not be repeated is doing the album in its entirety or even half of the album.

I don't think anybody in the band said anything about them never playing it again after that tour.

[hefdaddy42]

I think there is as much a chance for Space-Dye Vest to come back as there is for Raise the Knife and Speak to Me.

[Dream Team]

From IAW: PMU (out of sheer practice, his vocal cords must be practically PMU-shaped at this point), Metropolis, WFS, LTL (lot of long breaks, really only a note + a verse that are challenging)

From Awake: TSM, The Mirror, Lie, LSOAD, Scarred (borderline), SDV

From ACOS: ACOS

From FII: Essentially everything, the Trial Of Tears bridge melody can be remodulated to accomodate the lower range.

From SFAM onwards: Everything

Eh I'm not sure about Metropolis. A lot of high belting. Otherwise, agreed.

[bosk1]

I mean sure it was a special thing but not a "one tour only" special thing.

OK, but what makes you think that?  I haven't seen anything to indicate that, but maybe you are thinking of something I am missing.

But I'll tell you why I think it is not likely.  "Likely" generally means more than 50% chance.  The only thing I've seen from anyone in the band about the song in the past toward the song is disinterest at best.  When they brought it out for the AFTR tour, it was in the context of a recognition for Awake's anniversary, and they made a few comments about wanting to do something special, and knowing the fans have been asking for that song for years, it made sense to try to rework it and put it in the set at that time.  I have not heard any indication that they have ever thought of doing that again.  So the odds, from everything I've seen, are less than 50%.  Hence, "not likely." 

~~~~~~~~~~

And, yeah, DreamTeam is spot on about Metropolis.  Not all of that song is hard, but the middle part is REALLY hard.  As he said, a lot of high belting.  And I'll add that there is very little breath space during that stretch of a lot of high belting.  It's a really hard section to get through.  And it's very easy to do wrong and wreck one's voice for the rest of the set, even assuming doing a passable job of hitting some of the notes.  But I will say that it could be great if he were to take the time to write an alternate melody and practice it (not just wing it onstage, and I'm not sure that's what he does, but that's what it sometimes sounds like).

[wasteland]

I mean sure it was a special thing but not a "one tour only" special thing.

OK, but what makes you think that?  I haven't seen anything to indicate that, but maybe you are thinking of something I am missing.

But I'll tell you why I think it is not likely.  "Likely" generally means more than 50% chance.  The only thing I've seen from anyone in the band about the song in the past toward the song is disinterest at best.  When they brought it out for the AFTR tour, it was in the context of a recognition for Awake's anniversary, and they made a few comments about wanting to do something special, and knowing the fans have been asking for that song for years, it made sense to try to rework it and put it in the set at that time.  I have not heard any indication that they have ever thought of doing that again.  So the odds, from everything I've seen, are less than 50%.  Hence, "not likely." 

I must say I hope you are wrong on this point. I absolutely loved the "amped up" presentation of SDV in the two AFTR shows I attended, and was a clear highlight of either shows for both myself and the general audience. I would wager it was not solely because of the mistique, but because it was a genuine live hit (somewhat unexpectedly, I would add).

And, yeah, DreamTeam is spot on about Metropolis.  Not all of that song is hard, but the middle part is REALLY hard.  As he said, a lot of high belting.  And I'll add that there is very little breath space during that stretch of a lot of high belting.  It's a really hard section to get through.  And it's very easy to do wrong and wreck one's voice for the rest of the set, even assuming doing a passable job of hitting some of the notes.  But I will say that it could be great if he were to take the time to write an alternate melody and practice it (not just wing it onstage, and I'm not sure that's what he does, but that's what it sometimes sounds like).

You are both absolutely right here, but if I may say, just as much as there are enterprises, or even countries, that are too big to fail, every band has songs that are just too big to be shelved off permanently, no matter how demanding they can be. I would argue for DT those are: PMU, TTT, Metropolis, Dance Of Eternity, The Spirit Carries On, As I Am, possibly Breaking All Illusions. If an issue comes in the way of performing any of these, I'm sure the guys will dedicate themselves to finding a workaround.

[Madman Shepherd]

I mean sure it was a special thing but not a "one tour only" special thing.

OK, but what makes you think that?  I haven't seen anything to indicate that, but maybe you are thinking of something I am missing.

But I'll tell you why I think it is not likely.  "Likely" generally means more than 50% chance.  The only thing I've seen from anyone in the band about the song in the past toward the song is disinterest at best.  When they brought it out for the AFTR tour, it was in the context of a recognition for Awake's anniversary, and they made a few comments about wanting to do something special, and knowing the fans have been asking for that song for years, it made sense to try to rework it and put it in the set at that time.  I have not heard any indication that they have ever thought of doing that again.  So the odds, from everything I've seen, are less than 50%.  Hence, "not likely." 

~~~~~~~~

If that's your definition of "not likely" then I agree. I've just never heard anybody in DT say or indicate they would never do it ever again unless we're talking MP that said he would never do it in the first place.

It went over so well I wouldn't put it past them bringing it back at some point.

[bosk1]

I absolutely loved the "amped up" presentation of SDV in the two AFTR shows I attended...

I can't stand the song, but I agree that the arrangement they worked up for those shows, and how they performed it, were really, really great.

...every band has songs that are just too big to be shelved off permanently, no matter how demanding they can be. I would argue for DT those are: PMU, TTT, Metropolis, Dance Of Eternity, The Spirit Carries On, As I Am, possibly Breaking All Illusions.

I would quibble with some of the entries on your list, but I agree about Metropolis.  For the record, I don't think it will be "shelved" by the band.  My comments were solely about how difficult it is to sing properly.  It's not an easy song at all.  Even when I had my full range, I struggled with it, and I have heard James have a hard time with parts of it, even when he was in his prime. 

I mean sure it was a special thing but not a "one tour only" special thing.

OK, but what makes you think that?  I haven't seen anything to indicate that, but maybe you are thinking of something I am missing.

But I'll tell you why I think it is not likely.  "Likely" generally means more than 50% chance.  The only thing I've seen from anyone in the band about the song in the past toward the song is disinterest at best.  When they brought it out for the AFTR tour, it was in the context of a recognition for Awake's anniversary, and they made a few comments about wanting to do something special, and knowing the fans have been asking for that song for years, it made sense to try to rework it and put it in the set at that time.  I have not heard any indication that they have ever thought of doing that again.  So the odds, from everything I've seen, are less than 50%.  Hence, "not likely." 

~~~~~~~~

If that's your definition of "not likely" then I agree. I've just never heard anybody in DT say or indicate they would never do it ever again unless we're talking MP that said he would never do it in the first place.

It went over so well I wouldn't put it past them bringing it back at some point.

Well, sure, I'm not saying it's not possible.  But I think it's more likely than not that we won't see it return (outside of maybe a special show or string of shows where there is a specific reason to bring it back).  But I could be wrong.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think that in order to answer the question you posed in the thread title you should go back to the last tour. What DID he sing well (not a rhetorical question)? The answer to that question provides some basis on which to hypothesize.

[MoraWintersoul]

SDV went over really well and they've loved playing songs that go over well lately.  If you showed the footage to MP, he'd probably be impressed by the song presentation and maybe even want to take a crack at it, in spite of his pre-2010 self.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

SDV went over really well and they've loved playing songs that go over well lately.  If you showed the footage to MP, he'd probably be impressed by the song presentation and maybe even want to take a crack at it, in spite of his pre-2010 self.

I'll take your word for it. I didn't even recall that from the tour. Any other song that went well? SDV is a fairly unique piece in the archives so not sure where that one takes us.

[MoraWintersoul]

From all the footage I've seen the entire Awake portion went over really well. The Mirror + Lie would be a banger to see again, even if James ends up struggling with some parts.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

From all the footage I've seen the entire Awake portion went over really well. The Mirror + Lie would be a banger to see again, even if James ends up struggling with some parts.

Caught in a Web was very messy.

[TAC]

From all the footage I've seen the entire Awake portion went over really well. The Mirror + Lie would be a banger to see again, even if James ends up struggling with some parts.

Caught in a Web was very messy.

I think she's talking about the 2014 tour.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

From all the footage I've seen the entire Awake portion went over really well. The Mirror + Lie would be a banger to see again, even if James ends up struggling with some parts.

Caught in a Web was very messy.

I think she's talking about the 2014 tour.

I guess that's why I didnt recall any of those songs being played 

[Progmaniac1988]

WDADU - fortune in lies, afterlife, killing hand
I&W -  (this is a tough one, songs will need to be reworked vocally a bit) Metropolis pt 1, pull me under, take the time?, I’d love to say “learning to live” but that’s a tall order
Awake - 6:00, innecence faded, mind beyond itself suite, space dye vest
FII - I think anything on this album is fair game
SMAM - same here, basically anything on here
SDOIT - whole album, but glass prison will need some work. He seemed to not do a great job on this in the past
TOT - Anything on here, in the name of god is the only one I question a bit.
Octavarium - The root of all evil, these walls, I walk beside you, panic attack. The rest of the album he’d definitely need to work on. Especially the title track
SC Through AVFTTOTW - I think everything from SC to View is manageable. Except maybe the outro in illumination theory, but I think with practice and slight tweaking James can perform any song off any of those albums.

So it really seems it’s just the first few albums and a couple songs here and there that are major concerns. If anyone things anything else is unmanageable do share!

[Setlist Scotty]

WDADU - fortune in lies, afterlife, killing hand
I&W -  (this is a tough one, songs will need to be reworked vocally a bit) Metropolis pt 1, pull me under, take the time?, I’d love to say “learning to live” but that’s a tall order
Awake - 6:00, innecence faded, mind beyond itself suite, space dye vest
FII - I think anything on this album is fair game
SMAM - same here, basically anything on here
SDOIT - whole album, but glass prison will need some work. He seemed to not do a great job on this in the past
TOT - Anything on here, in the name of god is the only one I question a bit.
Octavarium - The root of all evil, these walls, I walk beside you, panic attack. The rest of the album he’d definitely need to work on. Especially the title track
SC Through AVFTTOTW - I think everything from SC to View is manageable. Except maybe the outro in illumination theory, but I think with practice and slight tweaking James can perform any song off any of those albums.

So it really seems it’s just the first few albums and a couple songs here and there that are major concerns. If anyone things anything else is unmanageable do share!

Are you sure you're not listing songs that JL can't sing any more? 

The Killing Hand, Take the Time, Innocence Faded and Voices are definitely not happening without either heavy vocal melody changes or perhaps being abridged as they did previously with both TtT and Voices.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I think there is as much a chance for Space-Dye Vest to come back as there is for Raise the Knife and Speak to Me.

So you're telling me there's a chance? 

[Dream Team]

^ What Scotty said.

[HOF]

Raise the Knife, Speak to Me, and Space Dye Vest sounds like a good time to me!

[Progmaniac1988]

WDADU - fortune in lies, afterlife, killing hand
I&W -  (this is a tough one, songs will need to be reworked vocally a bit) Metropolis pt 1, pull me under, take the time?, I’d love to say “learning to live” but that’s a tall order
Awake - 6:00, innecence faded, mind beyond itself suite, space dye vest
FII - I think anything on this album is fair game
SMAM - same here, basically anything on here
SDOIT - whole album, but glass prison will need some work. He seemed to not do a great job on this in the past
TOT - Anything on here, in the name of god is the only one I question a bit.
Octavarium - The root of all evil, these walls, I walk beside you, panic attack. The rest of the album he’d definitely need to work on. Especially the title track
SC Through AVFTTOTW - I think everything from SC to View is manageable. Except maybe the outro in illumination theory, but I think with practice and slight tweaking James can perform any song off any of those albums.

So it really seems it’s just the first few albums and a couple songs here and there that are major concerns. If anyone things anything else is unmanageable do share!

Are you sure you're not listing songs that JL can't sing any more? 

The Killing Hand, Take the Time, Innocence Faded and Voices are definitely not happening without either heavy vocal melody changes or perhaps being abridged as they did previously with both TtT and Voices.

Yeahhh, maybe I’m hopelessly optimistic??? Seems James has had trouble singing a lot of the catalog lately. I guess we can only wait and see. Thinking about it songs he should have been comfortable singing even on the latest album he did not do great with. It’s overall actually really hard to choose given his latest live performances. I’ll just keep my fingers crossed for some improvement.

[Progmaniac1988]

Raise the Knife, Speak to Me, and Space Dye Vest sounds like a good time to me!

I’d be happy with any of those songs hitting the set list! I was at Radio City when they last played “raise the knife” great memories

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

WDADU - fortune in lies, afterlife, killing hand
I&W -  (this is a tough one, songs will need to be reworked vocally a bit) Metropolis pt 1, pull me under, take the time?, I’d love to say “learning to live” but that’s a tall order
Awake - 6:00, innecence faded, mind beyond itself suite, space dye vest
FII - I think anything on this album is fair game
SMAM - same here, basically anything on here
SDOIT - whole album, but glass prison will need some work. He seemed to not do a great job on this in the past
TOT - Anything on here, in the name of god is the only one I question a bit.
Octavarium - The root of all evil, these walls, I walk beside you, panic attack. The rest of the album he’d definitely need to work on. Especially the title track
SC Through AVFTTOTW - I think everything from SC to View is manageable. Except maybe the outro in illumination theory, but I think with practice and slight tweaking James can perform any song off any of those albums.

So it really seems it’s just the first few albums and a couple songs here and there that are major concerns. If anyone things anything else is unmanageable do share!

Are you sure you're not listing songs that JL can't sing any more? 

The Killing Hand, Take the Time, Innocence Faded and Voices are definitely not happening without either heavy vocal melody changes or perhaps being abridged as they did previously with both TtT and Voices.

Yeahhh, maybe I’m hopelessly optimistic??? Seems James has had trouble singing a lot of the catalog lately. I guess we can only wait and see. Thinking about it songs he should have been comfortable singing even on the latest album he did not do great with. It’s overall actually really hard to choose given his latest live performances. I’ll just keep my fingers crossed for some improvement.

Bingo. No song was sung well every night, for my ears. I don't know where that leaves the band in terms of the setlist, but what I would like to hear is the band play the songs they want to play. If View and DreamSonic are the standard going forward, then setlist selection makes no discernible difference with respect to the vocal. Just my 2c based on how I am experiencing the shows.

Lastly, I am beating a dead horse when I say this but because this issue keeps coming up it bears repeating: we have no evidence the band thinks there is anything wrong with his singing. If they don't think there is a problem they're not going to tailor a setlist to address an issue they do not believe exists. We can talk amongst ourselves about what they should or should not play to help James out, but they may not think he needs any help at all. Another possibility is that it just is not a priority for them to address. We'll see what happens on the DT16 tour.

[Skeever]

Unfortunately, I listened to a few full boots from the last tour (and attended a show myself) and he sounded pretty pitchy on not just old stuff, but also new stuff that should be right in his pocket. My last DT show was quite an ear-opening experience for me, and I can't imagine myself at my next without constantly fretting about this very topic. This may be blunt, but I haven't been so fretful about what a favorite performer of mine is going to do on a play-by-play basis since I was watching Mark Sanchez drop back for the New York Jets.


Given all the commentary (widespread not just here, but also on FB, on Youtube, on Reddit, and also on the discord), I wish we had some kind of statement or explanation, like how Nicko came forward at the end of last year's Iron Maiden tour. Just something to give me hope that there is some hopefully easily navigable reason why this isn't going to be the way it always is from now on.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think the most recent roster move is a pretty good indication of where the band's priorities are these days.

[wolfking]

I'm still of the thinking that if they just lower the keys, it would open up their appropriate song selections for James a lot more.

I think the most recent roster move is a pretty good indication of where the band's priorities are these days.

I reckon we get more metal like TDEN, ANTR, CM, songs that should fit James more and MP can really add some support.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm still of the thinking that if they just lower the keys, it would open up their appropriate song selections for James a lot more.

I think the most recent roster move is a pretty good indication of where the band's priorities are these days.

I reckon we get more metal like TDEN, ANTR, CM, songs that should fit James more and MP can really add some support.

MP backing vocal could mask some of the issues on those songs, but I don't see why JLB would be able to sing them any better than songs he's been given lately (I&W songs aside).

[wolfking]

I'm still of the thinking that if they just lower the keys, it would open up their appropriate song selections for James a lot more.

I think the most recent roster move is a pretty good indication of where the band's priorities are these days.

I reckon we get more metal like TDEN, ANTR, CM, songs that should fit James more and MP can really add some support.

MP backing vocal could mask some of the issues on those songs, but I don't see why JLB would be able to sing them any better than songs he's been given lately (I&W songs aside).

I'd have to listen to the vocal lines again but was just thinking out loud, heavier songs, not many high sections, and I feel with the more heavier songs he would have more license to do different things that fit within his current capabilities and not have it sound as polarising as the more proggy, intricate numbers.

[SeRoX]

I think James can sing anything. If you change some vocal melodies on particular songs it will be fine. No matter what James still has the power considering his age.

The problem is mostly he is out of tune and has pitch problem. From the last tour he sounded powerful on BITS but out of tune as hell. He sounded beautiful on Solitary Shell and Losing Time but pitchy again. That takes it all. It's like James sings them for the first time on the stage.

[hefdaddy42]

I think there is as much a chance for Space-Dye Vest to come back as there is for Raise the Knife and Speak to Me.

So you're telling me there's a chance? 

Yes, technically. 

[Lonk]

With MP back in the band, there is a chance of then playing The Best of Times now. I have a feeling we won't see it though.

[Zydar]

With MP back in the band, there is a chance of then playing The Best of Times now. I have a feeling we won't see it though.

Although I really love the song (I'm in a minority there) I think it's too personal for MP. But it's been 15 years, so you never know.