Author Topic: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?  (Read 10997 times)

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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #210 on: February 18, 2024, 07:18:53 AM »

There is bound to be some biological change, but as crystalstars points out, many trained singers age gracefully though they do not sound *exactly* same as they did years ago.

Hmm, the only singer I can think of immediately who at his current age (70's) sounds similar to his prime is Dennis DeYoung.

Some singers are just blessed with good genes.  Much of it is luck.

Exactly. Many singers that sound like they age gracefully either don't have nearly as challenging vocals to deliver as James or do serious modifications.

Had no idea who DeYoung was. That's interesting because I can think of no other vocalist in such a position let alone performing  music similar to DT.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #211 on: February 28, 2024, 01:32:36 AM »
6:00 (05:31)
Afterlife (05:26)
Learning to Live (11:31)
The Mirror (6:45)
Lie (6:34)
Hell's Kitchen (4:16)
Lines in the Sand (12:05)
Home (12:53)
Misunderstood (09:31)
These Walls (06:59)
Constant Motion (06:55)
Wither (05:26)
Breaking All Illusions (12:25)
A Change of Seasons (23:09)
Pull Me Under (08:11)

Comes in at around 137 minutes. Would give James some breathing space too.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #212 on: February 29, 2024, 09:21:43 AM »

There is bound to be some biological change, but as crystalstars points out, many trained singers age gracefully though they do not sound *exactly* same as they did years ago.

Hmm, the only singer I can think of immediately who at his current age (70's) sounds similar to his prime is Dennis DeYoung.

Some singers are just blessed with good genes.  Much of it is luck.

Exactly. Many singers that sound like they age gracefully either don't have nearly as challenging vocals to deliver as James or do serious modifications.

Had no idea who DeYoung was. That's interesting because I can think of no other vocalist in such a position let alone performing  music similar to DT.

I don't think that on average his vocal parts are challenging to deliver relatively speaking.
Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I don't personally know any present or former members of Dream Theater. From time to time where the context is obvious, I may state an opinion without clearly labeling every single part of it as such. I cannot predict the future.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #213 on: February 29, 2024, 06:57:19 PM »
When a group is nominated three times for a Grammy Award, and wins one of them, the mainstream public is way more aware of a band. I'm not saying that they weren't popular among the dialed in prog metal fans prior to MM joining. Obviously, Dream Theater was hugely popular in the 90s, and got progressively more successful through the point MP left. All I was pointing out was that the mainstream public are probably more aware of DT because of the Grammy nominations (all of which came during MM's era).

Perhaps I didn't explain myself fully. Sorry.

Wasn't that not even televised though?

I don't believe the main show but there was a way to watch the preshow awards for anybody that a Grammystan.

Just getting to use the terms "Grammy nominated" and "grammy winner" sure gave them a boost and no doubt caused more people to take notice even if they didn't see them win that night.

I'm sure it's a boost. The idea that the mainstream public is way more aware is what I have trouble believing. The mainstream public cares as much about which Metal band won as much as Herrick cares about what Pop band/singer won.
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #214 on: February 29, 2024, 07:39:20 PM »
Probably not *way* more aware but it definitely increases some awareness. The bigger thing is that there was finally some recognition on the Academy's part. They're obviously not interested in a niche genre like this and didn't need to throw DT a bone here. Not many prog acts sniff a grammy. I think there was a genuine acknowledgement that this is a kick ass song delivered by an amazing group of musicians who crushed on the Alien. It's definitely an achievement for a Prog Metal band.
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Offline Schurftkut

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #215 on: March 01, 2024, 09:41:24 AM »
https://youtu.be/sVuCe8McFqA?t=412

This sounds pretty good actually. REALLY hope they bring TGP back live  :metal

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #216 on: March 01, 2024, 09:58:21 AM »
...whereas to me that sounds all kinds of wrong.

I'd love them to play the song on their next tour, though.
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #217 on: March 08, 2024, 05:39:10 AM »

There is bound to be some biological change, but as crystalstars points out, many trained singers age gracefully though they do not sound *exactly* same as they did years ago.

Hmm, the only singer I can think of immediately who at his current age (70's) sounds similar to his prime is Dennis DeYoung.

Some singers are just blessed with good genes.  Much of it is luck.

I want to speak to this "genes" and "luck" idea. Any professional singer who has come as far as James has "genes" and "luck". That's merely speaking to the level of natural proficiency a singer has that is born not made.

The rest is management. Singing is an art but it's also physical. Think of it like dance. If a dancer doesn't continually train, then their body cannot move well enough (despite being born with talent) to be able to express the artistic messages they wish to interpret or the music demands. In the same way a singer needs to manage their physical training (as it relates to the voice) to continually meet their demands. The voice, like a dancer's body, needs to be exactly as flexible and strong as their art form demands it to be. For James, those demands are extraordinary. As was already mentioned, DT music is far more demanding than most because of its complexity. So his training and maintenance needs to meet the occasion.

Also, and this is very important and I think many forget the seriousness of this: He sustained a significant injury. A vocal hemorrhage (whatever actually caused it notwithstanding), nevermind one that was not properly cared for in the beginning (he should've had surgery and six months of vocal rest), is a severe and even career-ending event for most. As such, it's like our hypothetical dancer having broken an ankle or knee and then always having to be mindful of it. Maybe they're always in danger of reinjuring and need to take extra precautions and extra physical therapy. Maybe you can even see the precarious lack of balance at times on that leg, even though they continue to dance. This is what James is dealing with, with his voice.

As such, it is no surprise that he's often skating on thin ice vocally. This doesn't make him a lesser singer than others who have never sustained an injury. It makes him a quite tenacious and admirable singer for continuing to do what he does. It's unfair to compare him to singers who have never been injured. They may be dealing with simply the ravages of time but I assure you James is dealing with a lot more than just that.

I do hope that especially now, he gets the care and good advice, training, and vocal therapy he needs. His is still, when he's at his best, the most objectively beautiful tenor voice I have ever heard. Maybe not the biggest, the strongest, or the most range-y of all time (Tate, Dickinson, Kiske, I'm looking at you), but James's superpower as a vocalist is beauty. The natural beauty of his voice is his blessing of "genes" and "luck".
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 05:45:11 AM by crystalstars17 »
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Offline WilliamMunny

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #218 on: March 08, 2024, 05:49:24 AM »
...whereas to me that sounds all kinds of wrong.

I'd love them to play the song on their next tour, though.

I'm so with you here.

Perhaps it's my age, or maybe it's just my conservative nature, but I will never for the life of me understand people's fascination with making and/or watching videos of AI-generated 'what if's.'

Here's "Bark at the Moon" sung by Hetfield. Um, yeah, I'm good.

I mean, the view counts clearly demonstrate that there is a growing audience for this sort of content, but given the amount of 'real' music made by 'real' people that I've still yet to discover, I have no idea why I'd want to spend an hour of the precious time I have left listening to an AI-generated recreation of 6 Degrees.

But that's just me... :laugh:

Offline Stadler

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2024, 05:52:06 AM »
Vocalists who have tended to their instrument:  Rob Halford

The Grammy:  Herrick already said this, but how many of you here see "Grammy winner" in a category you don't quite frequent and say "Hmm, I'm going to check them out!"  Does "Grammy winner" mean anything to you all here if it's not a band you ALREADY listen to?  In fact, how many of you see "Grammy winner" and think "uh oh, mainstream pablum for the masses, nuhuh!"

I tend to think that the amount of awareness is something greater than zero, but not anything that is really game-changing.  And I don't think (to Barstool's point) that this NECESSARILY means anything about the song in question. There are too many examples of the Grammy's not really getting it right that it's not safe to assume just because we like the band in question that that makes it a "genuine acknowledgement that this is a kick ass song delivered by an amazing group of musicians who crushed on the Alien."  I'm sorry, I don't mean to poo-poo this, and certainly John and Co. ought to be proud as hell of the trophy on their mantle, but that's the reality.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #220 on: March 08, 2024, 06:10:14 AM »
The Grammy:  Herrick already said this, but how many of you here see "Grammy winner" in a category you don't quite frequent and say "Hmm, I'm going to check them out!" 
Me.  I listen to the Grammy "Album of the Year" nominees in most genre categories every year, even genres I don't normally listen to.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #221 on: March 08, 2024, 07:13:29 AM »
The Grammy:  Herrick already said this, but how many of you here see "Grammy winner" in a category you don't quite frequent and say "Hmm, I'm going to check them out!" 
Me.  I listen to the Grammy "Album of the Year" nominees in most genre categories every year, even genres I don't normally listen to.

I'm sure there are people who get exposed to new music through Grammy winners. It was the idea of the mainstream public being way more aware of Dream Theater that I had trouble believing.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #222 on: March 08, 2024, 12:22:14 PM »
The Grammy:  Herrick already said this, but how many of you here see "Grammy winner" in a category you don't quite frequent and say "Hmm, I'm going to check them out!" 
Me.  I listen to the Grammy "Album of the Year" nominees in most genre categories every year, even genres I don't normally listen to.

Aren't there CDs of that year's Grammy winners?   I'd listen to that.  I think we're the minority though.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #223 on: March 08, 2024, 07:27:00 PM »
Vocalists who have tended to their instrument:  Rob Halford

The Grammy:  Herrick already said this, but how many of you here see "Grammy winner" in a category you don't quite frequent and say "Hmm, I'm going to check them out!"  Does "Grammy winner" mean anything to you all here if it's not a band you ALREADY listen to?  In fact, how many of you see "Grammy winner" and think "uh oh, mainstream pablum for the masses, nuhuh!"

I tend to think that the amount of awareness is something greater than zero, but not anything that is really game-changing.  And I don't think (to Barstool's point) that this NECESSARILY means anything about the song in question. There are too many examples of the Grammy's not really getting it right that it's not safe to assume just because we like the band in question that that makes it a "genuine acknowledgement that this is a kick ass song delivered by an amazing group of musicians who crushed on the Alien."  I'm sorry, I don't mean to poo-poo this, and certainly John and Co. ought to be proud as hell of the trophy on their mantle, but that's the reality.

I think the Academy DID acknowledge them for the first time. The Academy not getting it right historically to us doesn't mean they aren't genuinely positive on the song or think highly of it. I looked at the past winners and I don't think I agree with most of them, but it does not mean when DT won, it was just the Academy throwing them a bone or reluctantly pacifying an obscure fan base of middle aged men active predominately on the internet.

The Academy doesn't have to do anything right by DT or show them any respect whatsoever. This is a niche subgenre of Metal. I think the song won because the voters actually thought it was impressive. I can't see any other reason personally.
Disclaimer: All opinions stated are my own unless otherwise specified. I don't personally know any present or former members of Dream Theater. From time to time where the context is obvious, I may state an opinion without clearly labeling every single part of it as such. I cannot predict the future.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #224 on: March 15, 2024, 01:21:32 PM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Offline Stadler

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #225 on: March 15, 2024, 01:29:17 PM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #226 on: March 15, 2024, 02:08:33 PM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Who was that?!  :o It sounded like bad karaoke.
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Offline HOF

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #227 on: March 15, 2024, 02:15:31 PM »
Let's just say That Joe Payne is an interesting character. Seems very talented though.

Offline SeRoX

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #228 on: March 15, 2024, 02:21:22 PM »
His voice is like Charlie Dominici. Interesting take but doesn't fit the song, at least his singing style is not my cup of tea.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #229 on: March 15, 2024, 02:22:02 PM »
Let's just say That Joe Payne is an interesting character. Seems very talented though.

I have not really heard anything about him. I was getting him confused with the singer of Asia.

I don't know, I get it, it's not transcendent. But also, it's nice listening to a live performance of a Dream Theater song without puckering.

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #230 on: March 15, 2024, 02:57:09 PM »
I think it's a fine reminder of how spoiled we are to have James, and to collectively stop taking him for granted.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #231 on: March 15, 2024, 06:02:42 PM »
 ::)

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #233 on: March 15, 2024, 08:01:00 PM »
I thought that sounded pretty good. The vocals at the beginning had a big David Gilmour vibe. I like the soulful vocals in this song and I think they fit very well with this song.

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Offline Kram

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #234 on: March 16, 2024, 10:50:10 AM »
Personally, I preferred Devin Townsend singing it.

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #235 on: March 16, 2024, 01:21:49 PM »
To each their own!
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Offline Rob24

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #236 on: March 17, 2024, 04:46:39 AM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Who was that?!  :o It sounded like bad karaoke.

Gosh, you're so utterly rude, toxic and manipulative.

I would suggest you take a break from the internet.

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #237 on: March 17, 2024, 05:04:41 AM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Who was that?!  :o It sounded like bad karaoke.

Gosh, you're so utterly rude, toxic and manipulative.

I would suggest you take a break from the internet.

Oh, you again.

You must really hate James to be so adamantly venomous toward his defenders.

It's time for you to find another hobby.
"Whether by your will or not, there is no ship now that can bear me hence." ~ Arwen, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King

Offline TheHoveringSojourn808

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #238 on: March 17, 2024, 08:04:28 AM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Who was that?!  :o It sounded like bad karaoke.

Gosh, you're so utterly rude, toxic and manipulative.

I would suggest you take a break from the internet.


every post by crystalstars17 i've seen has been the total opposite of this, and she has shown kindness and inclusiveness at every turn; couldn't disagree more with this comment.

welcome to the forums, though! hope you can keep an open mind with the diversity of folks here on the boards!
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #239 on: March 17, 2024, 09:12:15 AM »
https://youtu.be/48nFq3Vt7dI?si=AisHSQ-3-_KoI272

I love James, I hope he's in DT forever.
But this video has me thinking some thoughts that a Skeever shouldn't think...

Not me.  That was great and all, but his voice is a bit too quivery and tremolo-y for me.   I couldn't take a 2 1/2 hour DT set of that, no thanks.

Who was that?!  :o It sounded like bad karaoke.

Gosh, you're so utterly rude, toxic and manipulative.

I would suggest you take a break from the internet.

Crystal's good people. She's taken a differing view than a number of people here but never once have the words rude or toxic or manipulative crossed my mind to describe her 🤔

And I don't think that video was like bad karaoke. I think someone said, "make sure to give it a lot of feel" and he was determined to give it the most feel that's ever been felt and it came across as very...ummm...performative. don't care for his timbre either.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #240 on: March 17, 2024, 10:07:53 AM »
I think it's a fine reminder of how spoiled we are to have James, and to collectively stop taking him for granted.

I wouldn't say spoiled. I would say that a lot of us are so used to JLB's vocals, when hearing a different vocalist/singer, it's sort of jarring.
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Offline Kram

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #241 on: March 17, 2024, 10:19:45 AM »
To each their own!
I was referring to preferring Devin over that other dude - not James. Lol

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #242 on: March 18, 2024, 04:33:47 AM »
every post by crystalstars17 i've seen has been the total opposite of this, and she has shown kindness and inclusiveness at every turn; couldn't disagree more with this comment.

Crystal's good people. She's taken a differing view than a number of people here but never once have the words rude or toxic or manipulative crossed my mind to describe her 🤔

Thanks, guys 💙 I appreciate your sticking up for me. 😽

I don't know what I ever did to upset Rob24, except maybe defend James, and then he takes his hatred of him out on me. Very inappropriate, if you ask. In fact I don't think I've ever seen him post anything positive about anything or anyone. I'm inclined to write him off as a garden-variety troll.

As for the other comments here about being used to a certain sound in a song, in this case James's voice, that may be it. But I doubt I could ever get used to another voice in these iconic songs. James is the voice of DT, and my opinion is that almost any other voice - including even the greatest voices - would just sound off and wrong. I don't know the singer in the above video, but maybe it just wasn't the right song for him.

There is only one person I've ever heard covering DT who has done these songs justice. I would hope that if James ever decided to step down, that this would be the only person who could ever take his place. Simply nothing else even makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVK2mz1nceU


ETA, This is not to say that I ever want to see James leave, nor that he should. But I wouldn't mind him sharing the stage with this guy in a Michael Kiske/Andy Deris kind of situation.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 04:44:11 AM by crystalstars17 »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #243 on: March 18, 2024, 06:08:21 AM »
I don't want to put words in Rob24's mouth, but I think he was poking fun at crystalstars17 there a little.

I've seen similar things come out of her mouth (fingers?) when she was facing opposing opinions on topics she was passionately arguing.
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Songs for Next Tour / What Can James Sing?
« Reply #244 on: March 18, 2024, 06:21:36 AM »
every post by crystalstars17 i've seen has been the total opposite of this, and she has shown kindness and inclusiveness at every turn; couldn't disagree more with this comment.

Crystal's good people. She's taken a differing view than a number of people here but never once have the words rude or toxic or manipulative crossed my mind to describe her 🤔

Thanks, guys 💙 I appreciate your sticking up for me. 😽

I don't know what I ever did to upset Rob24, except maybe defend James, and then he takes his hatred of him out on me. Very inappropriate, if you ask. In fact I don't think I've ever seen him post anything positive about anything or anyone. I'm inclined to write him off as a garden-variety troll.

As for the other comments here about being used to a certain sound in a song, in this case James's voice, that may be it. But I doubt I could ever get used to another voice in these iconic songs. James is the voice of DT, and my opinion is that almost any other voice - including even the greatest voices - would just sound off and wrong. I don't know the singer in the above video, but maybe it just wasn't the right song for him.

There is only one person I've ever heard covering DT who has done these songs justice. I would hope that if James ever decided to step down, that this would be the only person who could ever take his place. Simply nothing else even makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVK2mz1nceU


ETA, This is not to say that I ever want to see James leave, nor that he should. But I wouldn't mind him sharing the stage with this guy in a Michael Kiske/Andy Deris kind of situation.

Wow the resemblance to JLB is amazing.  :omg: