Author Topic: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-that's all folks!  (Read 44791 times)

0 Members and 60 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 47336
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1750 on: January 29, 2024, 01:30:26 PM »
Is this the last round?

I thought there was one more?
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Indiscipline

  • Ponce
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4530
  • Gender: Male
  • Apply IMO --->
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1751 on: January 29, 2024, 01:41:38 PM »
Is this the last round?

I was wondering this myself.

Online twosuitsluke

  • Posts: 11034
  • Gender: Male
  • Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1752 on: January 29, 2024, 01:47:04 PM »
Actually, I'm right but not about MY song. :lol

It's amazing how one post can be so right, but yet so wrong.

I have 72k posts just like it! :lol

TAC are you going to be the first six digit poster here?
We should get him a trophy :neverusethis:

Does it count if over half are "What is *insert pop culture reference after 1988* ?"?

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75634
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1753 on: January 29, 2024, 02:04:16 PM »
I was good till about 94-95. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online twosuitsluke

  • Posts: 11034
  • Gender: Male
  • Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1754 on: January 29, 2024, 02:06:37 PM »
I was good till about 94-95. ;D

Sorry man, doing you dirty there. Mid 90s it is :tup

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1755 on: January 29, 2024, 02:15:09 PM »
The Rest:
8 rounds - completely open. 

Now, as for the matter of scores that are propped up due to the Hangman intangibles (cough … Tim … cough).  After Round 8, if the person with the highest Quality score is *NOT* in the Top 3 overall, then I'm going to have a final four style tournament with the Top 3 + the Quality winner.  For the last four rounds, this should still give the incentive to A) Send good fucking music, and B) Still send stuff that's a little out of the norm to earn the intangible points.

MAYBE there'll be three bonus 'matches', but not exactly what I'd consider additional rounds.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30473
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1756 on: January 29, 2024, 02:22:04 PM »
There's one more.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1757 on: January 29, 2024, 02:50:30 PM »
There's one more.

Correct... I interpreted Tim's question to be is the upcoming round the last one - not the one I'm about to announce results for.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7920
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1758 on: January 29, 2024, 03:06:46 PM »
That makes it sound like if hypothetically DTVT sent a 10, and no one else sent better than an 8.5 that there would be another mini-round though, no?

Offline Dr. DTVT

  • DTF's resident Mad Scientist
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9527
  • Gender: Male
  • What's your favorite planet? Mine's the Sun!
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1759 on: January 29, 2024, 05:45:36 PM »
Hypothetically?  Challenge accepted.  (Drops $2,500 in Chad’s PayPal)
     

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... blatantly late results coming soon
« Reply #1760 on: January 29, 2024, 07:52:24 PM »
The quality leaderboard is looking very interesting.

Lonestar: Mikihiro Fujioka of TRICK BOX / Tonton Beat
Dude… from first to worst quality-wise in one round.  This was a bit of a crash.  The rhythms are like Ross Geller playing the keyboard - they seem to zig and zag with no clear direction or consistency.  The guitar work is ok, but it all just sounds like random noodling.  There's a lot of pauses and starts/stops, which I'm not connecting with.  And the atmospheric section at the beginning, while nice, just didn't seem to fit.

Scores
Quality: 6
Unpredictability: 5
Anonymity: 2.5

---------------------------
TAC: Gigafauna / Future Null Infinity
Generic prog-metal is the nicest thing I think I can say about it.  The solo section was enjoyable.  I'm struggling to pinpoint what it is about this tune I find so mediocre, but I really don't know how to articulate it.  It's just not grabbing me.  It's like having a snack of saltine crackers.  It's fine... it's somewhat satiating me, but there's not a lot of excitement to it. 

Scores
Quality: 6.5
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 3

---------------------------
Puppies: The Darkness / Rock and Roll Deserves to Die
Musically and compositionally and vocally it's pretty good.  I really like the acoustic intro.  Modern rock trying to sound like glam, and they kinda pull it off.  But I just can't get past the lyrics - I'm trying to enjoy a tune where someone is screaming at me that Rock and Roll must die?!?!?  The outro is pretty sweet as well - but then ruined by shouting "DIE!" 34 fucking times!!!  Dude… smdh.

Scores
Quality: 7
Unpredictability: 1
Anonymity: 5

---------------------------
Litho: Markus Venehsalo / Projekt 13
Dat's some groove, letting the guitar do all the talking.  It's not often an artist can make fingers and strings talk so much.  However, after just a few listens, that background groove and rhythm guitar started to grind my gears, which rounded this down to the score it got.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 1.5
Anonymity: 3.5

---------------------------
King: Sky Empire / The Emissary
JSS is very much a familiar voice, though not one that made my Top 25 list - he's just never stood out to me.  I enjoy a lot of what he fronts, but never just because of his voice.  This was very much middle-of-the-road as far as enjoyment goes, but after a few listens, and an absolutely stellar instrumental section, I gained a tiny little bit more appreciation for it.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 2
Anonymity: 1

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: Dream the Electric Sleep / Let the Light Flood In
I've seen these guys used in roulette's many times, but (like Barock Project), they never did much for me whenever I sampled them.  There's a bit of 'wall-of-sound' vibe to it, like none of the parts are allowed to breath or shine - which seems more like a production/mixing problem vs a compositional or performance problem.  Still, that held it back from getting that 8/A score.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 0.5
Anonymity: 4

---------------------------
Stadler: Living Loud / Every Moment a Lifetime
As far as blues-rock goes, this is some great stuff.  Vocally, it's a little over the top in the blues inflection, but that's not too much of a rub.  The music and musicianship more than makes up for it.  And see… you didn't try as hard to stump the group, and you end up scoring pretty strongly across the board.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 4.5
Anonymity: 1.5

---------------------------
Evermind: Calum Graham / Phoenix Rising
That's some unplugged goodness.  Very simplistic and stripped down, and easy on the ears.  Not much remains memorable about it though.  There's no earworm to keep me thinking about this when I'm not listening to it.  The part at 2:15 almost sounds like a 'chorus' and is the closest thing I get to that earworm.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 3
Anonymity: 2

---------------------------
Indiscipline: Dr.Viossy / One Hundred and One Odobenus Rosmarus
Loving this - it gives me some serious Sfogli vibes.  Really nice sound all around.  This is the kind of shreddery that sounds like it has purpose - and yes, this too is demonstration of how set of hands and strings can say so much.  There's not much more to say other than I just wanna sit back in an arm chair like I'm in a Memorex commercial.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 4
Anonymity: 4.5

---------------------------
Wolfking: Mercia / Fire in the Sky
Sometimes a simple rockin tune is just what scratches my itch.  Smooth vocals, nice melodies (musically and lyrically), simple structure.  I mean, there's not a lot of complexity to it - hell, it was the shortest song of the round.  It was like a nice warm and soft chocolate chip cookie for the ears.  Unfortunately for your overall score, you got hooped on the intangibles.

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 2.5
Anonymity: 0.5


Total Round 7:
Indiscipline - Dr.Viossy / One Hundred and One Odobenus Rosmarus: 4 + 4.5 + 8 = 16.5
Stadler - Living Loud / Every Moment a Lifetime: 4.5 + 1.5 + 8 = 14
lonestar - Mikihiro Fujioka of TRICK BOX / Tonton Beat: 5 + 2.5 + 6 = 13.5
TAC - Gigafauna / Future Null Infinity: 3.5 + 3 + 6.5 = 13
Puppies - The Darkness / Rock and Roll Deserves to Die: 1 + 5 + 7 = 13
Evermind - Calum Graham / Phoenix Rising: 3 + 2 + 8 = 13
Litho - Markus Venehsalo / Projekt 13: 1.5 + 3.5 + 7.5 = 12.5
Dr. DTVT - Dream the Electric Sleep / Let the Light Flood In: 0.5 + 4 + 7.5 = 12
Wolfking - Mercia / Fire in the Sky: 2.5 + 0.5 + 8.5 = 11.5
King - Sky Empire / The Emissary: 2 + 1 + 7.5 = 10.5


Overall Standings:
Litho - 102.5
lonestar - 99.5
Evermind - 98.5
TAC - 98.5
Wolfking - 94
Dr. DTVT - 91.5
Indiscipline - 91.5
Puppies - 85.5
King - 85
Stadler - 77.5


Quality through 7 Rounds - this leaderboard is getting VERY crowded!!  7 people within 1 point!!!

Litho - 56
lonestar - 56
Dr. DTVT - 56
Wolfking - 55.5
King - 55.5
Evermind - 55
Indiscipline - 55
Puppies - 52
TAC - 51
Stadler - 47
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30473
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1761 on: January 29, 2024, 08:03:12 PM »
Boo...

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59783
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1762 on: January 29, 2024, 08:15:33 PM »
I figured from your response,  it was middle of the road.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7920
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1763 on: January 29, 2024, 08:20:02 PM »
My worry was that you might think the song was kind of plodding, which looks like it may be exactly what happened.  I wonder if that section at the end was longer or repeated earlier in the song if it would have helped. 

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16605
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1764 on: January 29, 2024, 09:02:27 PM »
Basically our only chance is if Litho gets 0.5 + 0.5 in the hangman, and even that might be not enough. :lol Well, RJ may have a shot at this still with his Fujihiro Kukuoka bands.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7920
  • Placid Eruption
Re: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1765 on: January 29, 2024, 09:10:33 PM »
There's a swing of 9 points in intangibles alone, I don't feel safe at all.  :p

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16605
  • Gender: Male
Re: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1766 on: January 29, 2024, 09:16:46 PM »
There's a swing of 9 points in intangibles alone, I don't feel safe at all.  :p

Yeah, it's early morning and I miscounted. Somehow thought 0.5 + 0.5 = 1 and 5 + 5 = 5.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 47336
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1767 on: January 29, 2024, 09:19:37 PM »
Nice.  Do check their EP on Spotify.  Cool shit.

Although lol, best song of the round yet second last round ranking.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11959
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1768 on: January 29, 2024, 11:33:43 PM »
Sent for round 8 :corn
aka Puppies_On_Acid
Hey Stadler, your PM inbox is full.
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Offline Indiscipline

  • Ponce
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4530
  • Gender: Male
  • Apply IMO --->
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1769 on: January 30, 2024, 01:12:48 AM »
Happiness is a warm quality score.

Sending tonight, OPing tonight.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 03:07:01 AM by Indiscipline »

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11959
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1770 on: January 30, 2024, 03:03:54 AM »
Happines is a warm quality score.

Sending tonight, OPing tonight.
:corn
aka Puppies_On_Acid
Hey Stadler, your PM inbox is full.
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1771 on: January 30, 2024, 04:36:12 AM »
Nice.  Do check their EP on Spotify.  Cool shit.

Although lol, best song of the round yet second last round ranking.

I think you did that to RJ with that "U" too  :lol
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1772 on: January 30, 2024, 04:43:22 AM »
My worry was that you might think the song was kind of plodding, which looks like it may be exactly what happened.  I wonder if that section at the end was longer or repeated earlier in the song if it would have helped.

It wasn't that it was what I'd consider a 'plodder', but the repetitive nature of that rhythm guitar wore thin pretty quick - to run the Goldilocks analogy back, it was like a 7-course meal of porridge.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Indiscipline

  • Ponce
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4530
  • Gender: Male
  • Apply IMO --->
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1773 on: January 31, 2024, 02:42:24 AM »
I went and sent like a gent.

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 47336
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1774 on: January 31, 2024, 04:31:10 AM »
I'll send something tomorrow morning man, sorry.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1775 on: January 31, 2024, 05:05:26 AM »
No worries, still waiting on 3 others as well.  You know who you are  ;)
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16605
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1776 on: January 31, 2024, 05:52:31 AM »
Sure do, I'll send this evening.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75634
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1777 on: January 31, 2024, 06:18:23 AM »
You know who you are  ;)



We know who they are!

WTF? The last round took 4 fucking weeks, and people are still late for this round??

 ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16605
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1778 on: January 31, 2024, 06:29:11 AM »
WTF? The last round took 4 fucking weeks, and people are still late for this round??

 ;D

That's why I thought there was no hurry! :lol
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1779 on: January 31, 2024, 06:49:47 AM »
You know who you are  ;)



We know who they are!

WTF? The last round took 4 fucking weeks, and people are still late for this round??

 ;D

What are you, a dog?
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75634
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1780 on: January 31, 2024, 06:55:53 AM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1781 on: January 31, 2024, 07:00:03 AM »
Tim's quality scores in .gif form ...


That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

  • I find your lack of filtered water disturbing
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11959
  • Gender: Male
  • Together we can rule the ocean as father and son
aka Puppies_On_Acid
Hey Stadler, your PM inbox is full.
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
Quote from: TAC, definitely not King
Thes sng is are sounds rally nece an I lyke tha sungar

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 16605
  • Gender: Male
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1783 on: January 31, 2024, 10:34:38 AM »
Sent!
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45226
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - Round 7... Results (better late than never!)
« Reply #1784 on: January 31, 2024, 02:13:12 PM »
And then there were two.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion