Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-that's all folks!

[jingle.boy]

Four instrumentals, two of which will open the scoring; two of which will close the scoring - it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.


Stadler: King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard / Alluda Majaka
Yeah … dude, this is a double - nay, triple - backfire.  I'm still aghast that you thought it would score highly with the intangibles.  As for the song, well, it wasn't complete suckage - some pieces were missing .  The 'Doors' vibe you mentioned was there, but that's about the extent of what makes it mildly tolerable.  The main thing that irks me is that it sounds like it was recorded on an 8-track in the metal lawnmower shed from my mother's backyard.  Was that the sound they were going for?  Like, it's not even demo-quality recording. Second, all the sampled sound effects (is that a horse neighing???  smdh).  I tried REALLY hard to find things to like about this, but after 5-6 listens, I just wanted to stab my ears with an ice-pick.  The best thing about this was that it was under 4 minutes.  I'm going to generously give you a mercy pass.

Scores
Quality: 5.5
Unpredictability: 0.5
Anonymity: 3.0

---------------------------
TAC: Cotopaxi / Exogenetic
Nice little intro, but it sets the stage of what's to come - repetition and rehashing 1 or 2 ideas, because the rest of the song is just the same 30 seconds washed/rinsed/repeat 8 or 10 times over.  The underlying riff and rhythms don't change at all throughout the remaining 4 1/2 minutes, which is a shame because it's a really decent riff, and excellent sound, but there is virtually no creativity or artistry in this track.  The solo'g (when it's there) is pretty good, and the musicianship is excellent, but man… give me even just a slice of variety.  How did the writing sessions go?  "Hey I got an idea… we start with a 4-bar acoustic riff, and repeat it 18 times in the first 90 seconds, than we  take this other really cool 4-bar sequence, and repeat it 17 times for the next 4 minutes" …. "Yeah, but let's at least layer 45 seconds of guitar shredding over some of it"…..  "Good point.  Let's roll tape".  Honestly, this was 1 minute of original ideas jam packed into 5 1/2 minutes.  Despite how good the good parts were, this was the literal definition of too much of a good thing.  It was like a dessert of chocolate chips - it should be part of the recipe, not the only thing I'm being served.

Scores
Quality:  6.5
Unpredictability: 2.0
Anonymity: 1.5

---------------------------
Puppies: Glass Hammer / Snowblind Girl
As was Ruslan's description of your song in the 1st round - perfectly inoffensive (inoffensive must be one of those new English phrases Ruslan picked up ).  But, there was a certain something lacking in this one for my ears.  Especially on the vocals.  There was just a certain 'meh' to her voice.  The structure of the song was perfectly fine - some solid rock interlaced with an acoustic riff, little splashes of keyboard.  The instrumental breakdown started fine, but then that spacey keyboard patch just sounded entirely out of place - transitioning into a splash of ELP-love.  The band must've been munching some strong stuff when they wrote "Progressive-rock at it's finest" on their bandcamp page.  This is some mild rock that tries to be throw some progressive elements into it, but falls flat on its face when it does.

Scores
Quality: 7.0
Unpredictability: 4.5
Anonymity: 4.0

---------------------------
King: Unruly Child / When Worlds Collide
This is the kind of music that would inspire a Queensryche / FU rage-post by Kade.  I mean, the Unruly Child album I have (which I'm certain came as a result of one of Brent's podcasts) is some high quality Melodic Rock.  This song … not so much - it's quality, just not high quality.  There's nothing terribly wrong with this, but there's nothing that lights my wick either.  Unsurprisingly, this was released on Frontiers.  This gets a solid B, and falls into the category of how I classify so much music that I enjoy/ed, but have little-to-no desire to revisit it … "good, but not wow'd".  Vocally it was smooth, and Ruslan put it best - it was so inoffensive, it was borderline offensive. 

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 3.0
Anonymity: 2.0

---------------------------
Indiscipline: Savatage / Believe
So yeah… I knew this song pretty well, but with TSO and vocalist Tim Hockenberry.  But, the Savatage version was sufficiently different enough with Jon that I allowed it.  I'm not sure which I prefer more.  Tim's got a very raspy quality about him that kinda made me not enjoy the song as much as I wanted to for all the times that I heard it; plus it's a plodder.  It's a beautiful Power Ballad - has all the elements that I like … except for goose-bump inducing vocals.  I think this is one of the reasons I don't go to Savatage as often as I should - Jon's voice just falls a little limp for me.  He's got a smoother deliver than Hockenberry, that's for sure, and even though it's a few bpm faster than the TSO cover, it's still missing a certain je ne sais quoi.  I can appreciate that this is "the greatest power ballad ever penned" for you, but that's TASTES^TM for you.  I'm not sure I'd put this in my Top 50 of all-time power ballads.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 1.0
Anonymity: 0.5

---------------------------
Evermind: Meduza / Sleep
I knew I recognized the vocalist in this - Apollo Papathanasio, whom I know from Evil Masqurade and early Firewind.  This was another plodder, but the guitar work in the second half of the song saved it from falling behind some of the above songs.  Multiple listens improved the score, along with Apollo's voice, but the tempo and meandering pace like this is often a turn off for me.  The acoustic intro is great, and I was primed for so much more.  There's an early Yngwie feel to this song, and the solo'g warrants it.  Vocally, it might have been the best of the round.  It took a while to get there (2 1/2 minutes - almost half the song), but the variety in the following 2 1/2 minutes of solo'g was very yummy.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 4.0
Anonymity: 3.5

---------------------------
Litho: Manticora / Katana - Beheaded
Ok, so to explain my 2nd Impression.  The intro - with no hyperbole, my jaw dropped.  Like one of the best intro's of any song I've gotten in a roulette - up there with Obsessions.  Then, the vocals kicked in and I was (m)eeehhhh… wincing a little like 'I'm not so sure about this' - they weren't terrible, but they certainly took me out of my state of awe over the intro.  I was so focussed on the vox that I didn't even really notice how they flipped a switch and transitioned from prog-metal to speed-metal.  The pre-chorus/chorus/solo was back to that jaw dropping moment I had in the intro.  But during the back half of the song (starting at 4:00), the song practically slaps you in the face with the quintessential Fantasy/Viking (or Tolkein) metal sound - no matter the lyrics or storyline, that's what I hear - Dragonforce, Hammerfall, Gloryhammer, etc…  all the speed metal feelz usually reserved for Fantasy/Viking metal.  After the first listen of that intro, the rest of the song was a big lunch-bag letdown.  Fortunately, after a few listens, I began to enjoy it for what it was, but it could've been so much better if it the rhythm section wasn't so schizophrenic, transitioning in-and-out of that double base kick + galloping bass riff.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 2.5
Anonymity: 2.5

---------------------------
Wolfking: Anvil Therapy / Rage
Italian power metal eh … boy, you really are digging in to stuff that isn't in your wheelhouse anymore!  The riff at 1:05 and back again at 2:10 isn't a direct rip from Honor Thy Father, but man does it totally give me a strange déjà vu for it.  Couple in the abrupt slow down, and the key solo that tries to sound like a guitar solo that's the reason for the impression you got.  While HTF is not my fave song from ToT, this iteration of it (;-)) was more enjoyable - maybe because it didn't go on for 10+ minutes.  The opening 'reverb' effect in the vocals wasn't a complete turnoff, but I wasn't really sure of the purpose of it.  Not a lot more to say about this one… a pretty straight forward metal track with a sufficient amount of progginess to it, and keeping itself contained to 5 1/2 minutes.

Scores
Quality: 8.0
Unpredictability: 1.5
Anonymity: 1.0

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: The Biscuit Merchant / Superior Shores
After a very mellow 90 second acoustic intro, in the words of the legendary Jim Ross "business is about to pick up".  The first half is a slow build, with some amazing riffage, and soulful guitar work.  Then for the latter half of the song, this fucker can shred! The difference between this track and Exogenetic was that they didn't rely on the underlying riffs - there was always some lead guitar solo'g going on over top of it. In the end, there was a lot of life in this track. I was a little disappointed to read that the rhythms are programmed, and his typical style is thrashy, death, and guttural.  I mean, I'll check out the rest of their work, but I'll be ready to smash that skip button. 

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 4.5
---------------------------
Lonestar: Ikejirike / Liberta
Well, you already knew this was going to score strong before you even sent this (full disclosure to anyone reading this writeup - a couple months back RJ shared another tune from this outfit, and my response to it was "that was fucking hot").  And this one is no different - frantic, prog-af, metal-af, rich lush guitar tones, pounding (not speed) drums, symphonic and orchestral and choir patches thrown in appropriately to add even more warmth.  Schwing-adellic!

Scores
Quality: 9.0
Unpredictability: 5.0
Anonymity: 5.0


Round 2 Scores:
lonestar - Ikejirike / Liberta:  5 + 5 + 9 = 19
Dr. DTVT - The Biscuit Merchant / Superior Shores:  3.5 + 4.5 + 8.5 = 16.5
Puppies - Glass Hammer / Snowblind Girl:  4.5 + 4 + 7 = 15.5
Evermind - Meduza / Sleep:  4 + 3.5 + 7.5 = 15
King - Unruly Child / When Worlds Collide:  3 + 2 + 7.5 = 12.5
Litho - Manticora / Katana - Beheaded:  2.5 + 2.5 + 7.5 = 12.5
Wolfking - Anvil Therapy / Rage:  1.5 + 1 + 8 = 10.5
TAC - Cotopaxi / Exogenetic:  2 + 1.5 + 6.5 = 10
Indiscipline - Savatage / Believe:  1 + 0.5 + 7.5 = 9
Stadler - King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard / Alluda Majaka:  0.5 + 3 + 5.5 = 9

P.S.  Check my math, and file a grievance if needed.

-------------------------------
Overall Standings:
Total Score
1. lonestar - 33.5
2. Dr. DTVT - 30.5
3. Wolfking - 28.5
4. Litho - 28
5. Puppies - 27.5
6. Evermind - 26.5
7. TAC - 25.5
8. King - 23
9. Indiscipline - 21
10. Stadler - 19

Quality Score (ranking diff from Total)
1. lonestar - 18 (=)
2. Wolfking - 16 (+1)
2. Indiscipline - 16 (+7)
4. Dr. DTVT - 15.5 (-2)
4. Litho - 15.5 (=)
4. Puppies - 15.5 (+1)
7. Evermind - 15 (-1)
7. King - 15 (+1)
9. Stadler - 13.5 (+1)
10. TAC - 13 (-3)

What does this tell me?  Indi is getting hosed on the intangibles.  Gotta pick it up pal… you're apparently too predictable.  Also, TAC is playing the intangible game well, but sending sub-par material.  Everyone else is about where they would be without the intangible scores.

We'll see how this plays out over the next couple of rounds, and there's a fundamental mismatch between total score and quality score, I have a plot twist in mind that could help normalize it. The biggest concern is if someone WINS largely on the strength of their intangible scores.

[Evermind]

Man, I keep sending stuff I think you'll really like, and it's 7.5 both times. I think I may be a little out of tune with your tastes nowadays, we'll see.

Whoever is awake to guess the next hangman, please target RJ and Mason next.

[lonestar]

 


You got my 3rd round already!!

Man, I keep sending stuff I think you'll really like, and it's 7.5 both times. I think I may be a little out of tune with your tastes nowadays, we'll see.

Whoever is awake to guess the next hangman, please target RJ and Mason next.

Bro...

[Evermind]

What? You're in the lead.

You've probably sent another Japanese artist named something like Jinro Kawasagamuchi that has 8 followers on Spotify so they won't guess it anyway.

[lonestar]

Motherfucker...

[jingle.boy]

Man, I keep sending stuff I think you'll really like, and it's 7.5 both times. I think I may be a little out of tune with your tastes nowadays, we'll see.

Whoever is awake to guess the next hangman, please target RJ and Mason next.

I know, it's tough to nail peoples' tastes - there's sometimes a fine line between being "solid", and being "wow'd".  I'd say at least 50% of the stuff I sample on a yearly basis falls into that B/B+ range (so, 7.5-ish on a 10 point scale).  It takes a lot to really push something into the A-grade after only 7-8 listens.

[Indiscipline]

Quality again!

I'm fine, Chad. If I go for obscure stuff I immediately start sucking and the precogs will fock me anyways.

[ariich]

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: The Biscuit Merchant / Superior Shores
After a very mellow 90 second acoustic intro, in the words of the legendary Jim Ross "business is about to pick up".  The first half is a slow build, with some amazing riffage, and soulful guitar work.  Then for the latter half of the song, this fucker can shred! The difference between this track and Exogenetic was that they didn't rely on the underlying riffs - there was always some lead guitar solo'g going on over top of it. In the end, there was a lot of life in this track. I was a little disappointed to read that the rhythms are programmed, and his typical style is thrashy, death, and guttural.  I mean, I'll check out the rest of their work, but I'll be ready to smash that skip button. 

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 4.5
---------------------------

Woah. You probably know this already, but that's Ultimetalhead, formerly of these parts.

Also wtf RJ that's a ludicrous score.

[lonestar]

Not sure if I can keep it up, two 9's in a row is an amazing feat for me on its own.

[jingle.boy]

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: The Biscuit Merchant / Superior Shores
After a very mellow 90 second acoustic intro, in the words of the legendary Jim Ross "business is about to pick up".  The first half is a slow build, with some amazing riffage, and soulful guitar work.  Then for the latter half of the song, this fucker can shred! The difference between this track and Exogenetic was that they didn't rely on the underlying riffs - there was always some lead guitar solo'g going on over top of it. In the end, there was a lot of life in this track. I was a little disappointed to read that the rhythms are programmed, and his typical style is thrashy, death, and guttural.  I mean, I'll check out the rest of their work, but I'll be ready to smash that skip button. 

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 4.5
---------------------------

Woah. You probably know this already, but that's Ultimetalhead, formerly of these parts.

Wel suck me sideways!!  I did not know that.  Nice

[jingle.boy]

Not sure if I can keep it up, two 9's in a row is an amazing feat for me on its own.

Lose the dart, man!

[lonestar]

Not sure if I can keep it up, two 9's in a row is an amazing feat for me on its own.

Lose the dart, man!

I can never remember the code 

[twosuitsluke]

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: The Biscuit Merchant / Superior Shores
After a very mellow 90 second acoustic intro, in the words of the legendary Jim Ross "business is about to pick up".  The first half is a slow build, with some amazing riffage, and soulful guitar work.  Then for the latter half of the song, this fucker can shred! The difference between this track and Exogenetic was that they didn't rely on the underlying riffs - there was always some lead guitar solo'g going on over top of it. In the end, there was a lot of life in this track. I was a little disappointed to read that the rhythms are programmed, and his typical style is thrashy, death, and guttural.  I mean, I'll check out the rest of their work, but I'll be ready to smash that skip button. 

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 4.5
---------------------------

Woah. You probably know this already, but that's Ultimetalhead, formerly of these parts.

Oh wow, really? Gonna need to check this out.

Nice write ups Chad, definitely gonna give Litho and Lonestar's songs a listen.

I know you're unlikely to become a King Gizzard fan (especially now), but don't write them off completely, that was far from a good choice of song.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah. I still talk to Justin on Facebook. 

[twosuitsluke]

Yeah. I still talk to Justin on Facebook.

Can you thank him for his write ups on Devin Townsend's Deconstruction and Addicted! albums, he really helped me get into Devy

[Evermind]

Played Disco Elysium for a few hours and forgot to pick what to send I'll send tomorrow after work (in ~24 hours).

[jingle.boy]

Coolio!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Ouch.

Well, I've got another song lined up already, so I will send in a bit.

[Indiscipline]

Sent with extreme difficulties from the phone.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Sent for round 3!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Litho: Manticora / Katana - Beheaded
Ok, so to explain my 2nd Impression.  The intro - with no hyperbole, my jaw dropped.  Like one of the best intro's of any song I've gotten in a roulette - up there with Obsessions.  Then, the vocals kicked in and I was (m)eeehhhh… wincing a little like 'I'm not so sure about this' - they weren't terrible, but they certainly took me out of my state of awe over the intro.  I was so focussed on the vox that I didn't even really notice how they flipped a switch and transitioned from prog-metal to speed-metal.  The pre-chorus/chorus/solo was back to that jaw dropping moment I had in the intro.  But during the back half of the song (starting at 4:00), the song practically slaps you in the face with the quintessential Fantasy/Viking (or Tolkein) metal sound - no matter the lyrics or storyline, that's what I hear - Dragonforce, Hammerfall, Gloryhammer, etc…  all the speed metal feelz usually reserved for Fantasy/Viking metal.  After the first listen of that intro, the rest of the song was a big lunch-bag letdown.  Fortunately, after a few listens, I began to enjoy it for what it was, but it could've been so much better if it the rhythm section wasn't so schizophrenic, transitioning in-and-out of that double base kick + galloping bass riff.

Interesting, I guess we hear the song quite differently.  The vocals are commonly seen as their weak point, so I did worry about that a bit, though they're fine to me.  I hoped based on what I can tell of your tastes that you'd like them more, though I guess that didn't quite work.  I'm not sure what you would have wanted differently in the second half, it would be overbearing and monotonous if the rhythmic subdivisions didn't shift periodically, and some of them are repeats of sections from the first half, the new parts being the solo, harmonies, and post-solo section (the speed high points of the song for contrast) and another new riff that sets up the final chorus. 

Anyway, sent for round 3.  Getting kind of nervous about my next submissions and may need to rethink some of them.  I'm starting to think I may have gotten lucky in the prelim, or maybe I'm just at a disadvantage now given almost everyone else has played in multiple roulettes of yours already. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Litho: Manticora / Katana - Beheaded
Ok, so to explain my 2nd Impression.  The intro - with no hyperbole, my jaw dropped.  Like one of the best intro's of any song I've gotten in a roulette - up there with Obsessions.  Then, the vocals kicked in and I was (m)eeehhhh… wincing a little like 'I'm not so sure about this' - they weren't terrible, but they certainly took me out of my state of awe over the intro.  I was so focussed on the vox that I didn't even really notice how they flipped a switch and transitioned from prog-metal to speed-metal.  The pre-chorus/chorus/solo was back to that jaw dropping moment I had in the intro.  But during the back half of the song (starting at 4:00), the song practically slaps you in the face with the quintessential Fantasy/Viking (or Tolkein) metal sound - no matter the lyrics or storyline, that's what I hear - Dragonforce, Hammerfall, Gloryhammer, etc…  all the speed metal feelz usually reserved for Fantasy/Viking metal.  After the first listen of that intro, the rest of the song was a big lunch-bag letdown.  Fortunately, after a few listens, I began to enjoy it for what it was, but it could've been so much better if it the rhythm section wasn't so schizophrenic, transitioning in-and-out of that double base kick + galloping bass riff.

Interesting, I guess we hear the song quite differently.  The vocals are commonly seen as their weak point, so I did worry about that a bit, though they're fine to me.  I hoped based on what I can tell of your tastes that you'd like them more, though I guess that didn't quite work.  I'm not sure what you would have wanted differently in the second half, it would be overbearing and monotonous if the rhythmic subdivisions didn't shift periodically, and some of them are repeats of sections from the first half, the new parts being the solo, harmonies, and post-solo section (the speed high points of the song for contrast) and another new riff that sets up the final chorus. 

Anyway, sent for round 3.  Getting kind of nervous about my next submissions and may need to rethink some of them.  I'm starting to think I may have gotten lucky in the prelim, or maybe I'm just at a disadvantage now given almost everyone else has played in multiple roulettes of yours already.

I sent Manticora to Jingle before with about the same result.....actually I think the song I sent did worse.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Weird, it didn't show up in search results. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Weird, it didn't show up in search results.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52760.msg2463490#msg2463490

[Dr. DTVT]

While I benefited from it this round, the anonymity scoring doesn’t real work as intended.  Think about it, everyone would know RJ would have sent the Japanese titled song, but since we can’t say that until we get the song, he gets a free ride on those points.  In scientific parlance, you are not measuring what you are trying to measure.  Artist/song get figured out early, the sender gets figured out early.  #science_always_is_right

[lonestar]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

[jingle.boy]

While I benefited from it this round, the anonymity scoring doesn’t real work as intended.  Think about it, everyone would know RJ would have sent the Japanese titled song, but since we can’t say that until we get the song, he gets a free ride on those points.  In scientific parlance, you are not measuring what you are trying to measure.  Artist/song get figured out early, the sender gets figured out early.  #science_always_is_right

[Stadler]

While I benefited from it this round, the anonymity scoring doesn’t real work as intended.  Think about it, everyone would know RJ would have sent the Japanese titled song, but since we can’t say that until we get the song, he gets a free ride on those points.  In scientific parlance, you are not measuring what you are trying to measure.  Artist/song get figured out early, the sender gets figured out early.  #science_always_is_right

Word.  I was guessed out of a process of elimination.   

If anyone guesses mine this time, I'm throwing in the towel and just sending Kiss and Night Ranger for the rest of the roulette. 

[Dr. DTVT]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

You still can’t match a person to a song until the song is guessed though, so the same logic holds.  Like I said, I benefitted from it last round as well.  Song gets guessed, the person will be shortly after

[jingle.boy]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

You still can’t match a person to a song until the song is guessed though, so the same logic holds.  Like I said, I benefitted from it last round as well.  Song gets guessed, the person will be shortly after

I think this logic is "common sense" .  It doesn't explain how Puppies was the first song guessed in Round 1, but he was the 6th identified.  Same thing with Stads and the Gizzard Wizard.  By and large, the two are solved closely together.

Send harder to guess songs, and the anonymity points will be followed. 

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

You still can’t match a person to a song until the song is guessed though, so the same logic holds.  Like I said, I benefitted from it last round as well.  Song gets guessed, the person will be shortly after

Yeah, it would be interesting to have a roulette (or even just a round or two) where there was no hangman, but people just immediately went to work guessing who sent what.  I suspect it would generate a different sending strategy than it does currently. 

[jingle.boy]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

You still can’t match a person to a song until the song is guessed though, so the same logic holds.  Like I said, I benefitted from it last round as well.  Song gets guessed, the person will be shortly after

Yeah, it would be interesting to have a roulette (or even just a round or two) where there was no hangman, but people just immediately went to work guessing who sent what.  I suspect it would generate a different sending strategy than it does currently.

Sounds like an idea for you to test out in your next roulette.

[Evermind]

Long day at work, on my commute now. Will send in 2 hours max.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Except that's probably the only Japanese song I'm sending this roulette. Your sample pool is ridiculously small.

You still can’t match a person to a song until the song is guessed though, so the same logic holds.  Like I said, I benefitted from it last round as well.  Song gets guessed, the person will be shortly after

Yeah, it would be interesting to have a roulette (or even just a round or two) where there was no hangman, but people just immediately went to work guessing who sent what.  I suspect it would generate a different sending strategy than it does currently.

Sounds like an idea for you to test out in your next roulette.

I might keep it in my back pocket as a possibility, though I'm not quite as intrigued by the idea as you or Metro.  It probably works best with a host that is more equally interested in a wider range of genres, broadening the potential artist selection pool.  Dunno who that would be, ariich and I would be candidates, except we definitely have predispositions against certain styles. 

[Stadler]

I sent a demo tape from my band in high school. Let's see you fuckers guess that one.