Now that the MM era is finished, how would you rank those five albums?

[jimgolf]

@jimgolf - not a fan of Surrender to Reason or Behind the Veil? I noticed you excluded those so I was just curious. I love both.

I enjoy those songs, but I would put them a slight rung under The Enemy Inside/Looking Glass/Bigger Picture/Along for the Ride. Surrender to Reason always felt like a song that has a lot of great parts, but doesn't gel into a great song - it ends up being just a good song. And I mostly really enjoy Behind the Veil - especially the guitar solo.

[gborland]

Viper King is my favourite song from the MM era. (Yes, I'm serious.)

It has such an awesome groove, and it's the only song from the entire era which shows groove, vitality and energy. It makes me smile. 

[Progmaniac1988]

1 - A Dramatic Turn of Events 9/10 - to me this album is right up there with all the classics
2 - A View From The Top Of The World - 8/10 - first album since adtoe that I’d say is great from start to finish. Still not classic tier to me tho.
3 - Distance Over Time - 7/10 - solid album with some fantastic songs. Something missing tho that I can’t put my finger on that keeps it from having that “magic” DT feeling.
4 - The Astonishing - 7/10 - I actually love this album! But it’s WAY too long and has too much filler/meh moments. Could have been classic tier if organized tighter and toning down the cheese just a tad.
5 - Dream Theater - 6/10 - probably my least favorite DT album. A lot of forgettable songs to me. I will say about half the album is fantastic tho! The other half not much! And the epic is one of my fav songs overall. Just wish the whole album was that level from start to finish.

[lightningbolt]

1. ADTOE - Consistently good throughout.  Still enjoy this one as much as ever.  Several great DT songs that I listen to frequently. 

2. S/T - Solid DT album with a few clunker tracks.  A few great DT songs that I still listen to often.
 
3. DOT - Again, solid w/ a few clunkers, but the lows are lower for me than S/T (Room 137 being one).  Another thing knocking this down a bit is that some of the songs I initially enjoyed haven't aged well for me - Wit's End and Barstool Warrior come to mind. 

4. The Astonishing - I enjoy about 1/3 of the album, mostly from the first 12 songs or so.  The rest ranges from meh to boring.  The weak story doesn't help the album's case.  I do appreciate that the band tried something different, even if it didn't totally work. 

5. A View - Very disappointed when this was released and still feel the same over 2 years later.  I had a difficult time getting through it on my first listen.  I recently revisited it and nothing has changed for me.  My overall takeaway is that it is very boring.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

1. ADTOE
2. DOT
3. DT
4. View
5. Astonishing

Funny how opinions and memories of opinions can change over time. Recently I was listening to DT12 and remembered how much I loved that album at the time. Still do but after approximately 49 million spins, it is bound to lose some luster. Tracks like Surrender to Reason, The Bigger Picture...so underrated. Also, controversial opinion: Enigma Machine > Erotomania.

New ranking would switch DT and DOT with there being about a hair of separation. If you put Illumination Theory, Pale Blue Dot, Barstool Warrior, and Out of Reach all on the same setlist, it might be the best DT show ever.

1. ADTOE
2. DT
3. DOT
4. View
5. Astonishing

[bosk1]

Also, controversial opinion: Enigma Machine > Erotomania.

I don't think it's controversial.

[Buddyhunter1]

Also, controversial opinion: Enigma Machine > Erotomania.

I don't think it's controversial.

It's also incredibly true!

Maybe selective memory but I always had the impression that it was generally regarded as one of the band's weakest instrumentals, which is a shame. It's a super energetic song with great riffs and probably Mangini's best performance with the band.

[Madman Shepherd]

Also, controversial opinion: Enigma Machine > Erotomania.

I don't think it's controversial.

It's also incredibly true!

Maybe selective memory but I always had the impression that it was generally regarded as one of the band's weakest instrumentals, which is a shame. It's a super energetic song with great riffs and probably Mangini's best performance with the band.

I think it is regarded that way as well. I love it though.

[pg1067]

Also, controversial opinion: Enigma Machine > Erotomania.

I don't think it's controversial.

I don't know if it's controversial, but, among instrumentals that actually appeared on a DT album, those two probably rank only ahead of FAS and the two on TA, and Enigma Machine is my lowest ranked song on my favorite of the MM-era albums.

[EPIC Outro]

D/T
ADTOE
DT12
TA
AVFTTOTW

And I love them all.

[jingle.boy]

1. TA and ADToE
Let's pretend I&W never made a lifelong fan of me on release, which other albums could have done the job later? SFAM, ADTOE (for the same reasons I&W did) and TA (same reasons as SFAM and then some).

I'm not sure we can be friends anymore. 

My ranking

ADTOE - the highs are very high, but there are also a few lows in there (BMUBMD, I'm looking squarely at you; not much of a fan of LNF either).  But the two ballads are the best pair on any album, save I&W.
DT12 - A VERY consistent album, but a handful forgettable moments.  And Enigma Machine is their worst instrumental.
DoT - when this first dropped, I was rather 'meh' about it, but in re-listening for the Top 100 rankings, I found myself enjoying these much more than I remembered.  The opening 2 tracks are the worst of the bunch, and TVK ain't much better, but everything in between is pretty damned good.

A View - I think I tried it 3, maybe 4 times before coming to the conclusion that DT had jumped the shark (for me).























TA - absolute tripe, and I'm not sure I've forgiven the band for putting the concert tickets on sale before the album dropped.  Worst $94 I ever spent in my life, and the only concert I ever walked out of before it was over.  Worst concert ever.  And listening to Tim's abridged version earlier this week solidified my opinion - even when filtering out the crap and unnecessary bits, it's still crap.

[Indiscipline]

The
Astonishing
Shan't
Threaten
Esteemed
Sympathies
!

[wolfking]

1. TA and ADToE
Let's pretend I&W never made a lifelong fan of me on release, which other albums could have done the job later? SFAM, ADTOE (for the same reasons I&W did) and TA (same reasons as SFAM and then some).

TA - absolute tripe, and I'm not sure I've forgiven the band for putting the concert tickets on sale before the album dropped.  Worst $94 I ever spent in my life, and the only concert I ever walked out of before it was over.  Worst concert ever.  And listening to Tim's abridged version earlier this week solidified my opinion - even when filtering out the crap and unnecessary bits, it's still crap.

Maybe you should do the listen through with running commentary.  Would be hilarious. 

[jingle.boy]

1. TA and ADToE
Let's pretend I&W never made a lifelong fan of me on release, which other albums could have done the job later? SFAM, ADTOE (for the same reasons I&W did) and TA (same reasons as SFAM and then some).

TA - absolute tripe, and I'm not sure I've forgiven the band for putting the concert tickets on sale before the album dropped.  Worst $94 I ever spent in my life, and the only concert I ever walked out of before it was over.  Worst concert ever.  And listening to Tim's abridged version earlier this week solidified my opinion - even when filtering out the crap and unnecessary bits, it's still crap.

Maybe you should do the listen through with running commentary.  Would be hilarious. 

Hard to have any commentary when it leaves me absolutely speechless .  My commentary would just be one rage-filled scream after another, with the occasional "sucks" and "blows".

[King Postwhore]

TA turns you into Tim?   I'd never listen to it again!

[jingle.boy]

TA turns you into Tim?   I'd never listen to it again!

That's the plan

[Herrick]

1. A Dramatic Turn of Events.
2. Dream Theater.
3. A View From The Top of the World - this could eventually supplant the self-titled album.
4. Distance Over Time.

















5. The Astonishing.

[Joshgirouard]

TA
ADTOE
AVFTTOTW
DT
DOT

[Schurftkut]

ADTOE
DoT
View
TA
DT

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

1) A Dramatic Turn of Events - An instant DT classic. A real musical statement that paved the way for a decade of music in the same way that Images & Words paved the way for a decade of music. I know some people don't like so much the mix, but I really don't mind.

2) The Astonishing - Ah, the controversy. The most ambitious and risky album they did with Mike Mangini (and probably the album that makes less use of him). I was really into film music back in 2016, so I remember this album was exactly what I was unconsciously yearning from the band. It was some of DT's most inspired and intricately written music but not all is good with this one (I still think the 3D modeled characters look kinda bad and the additional sound production is very subpar), but hey. This was clearly an album made to be played live, and the concert was incredible. Shame that we didn't get a proper live release.

3) Distance Over Time - I don't necessarily feel that it's a better album than A View From the Top of the World, but this felt like the first album from this era that was truly a group effort. The production is amazing as you can clearly hear the room it was recorded in, and in some ways this felt like a classic rock record.

4) A View From the Top of the World - Their ultimate Mangini-era statement. Tomorrow I could easily swap 3 and 4, but this is a record that truly sounds like a modern projection of the Dream Theater sound.

5) Dream Theater - I don't feel that this album hasn't aged so well. Although it has some pretty high moments (Illumination Theory), I feel that they've made superior versions of the songs that are to be found in here in plenty of other albums. I feel they kinda wasted their "self-titled" card with this one, although I understand why they decided to name it like such back in 2014.

All in all I feel their output was very strong. I hope they keep revisiting some of the music produced in this era because there are some truly wonderful cuts.

[lovethedrake]

1. DOT
2. AVFTTOTW  - The title track is SOOOOOO good that it makes it a tough decision but I think DOT is better overall due to more variety.

3. The Astonishing





4. Dream Theater


























5. ADTOE

[WardySI]

1. DOT Would probably make my Top5 DT albums
2. DT12 Never and still don't understand the dislike
3. ADTOE Finally got on board after a long time disappointed
4. AVFTTOTW Solid (aside from those wretched carnival/circus keys)
5. TA Moments of beauty but too lethargic and soft, a missed opportunity

[Ben_Jamin]

1) A Dramatic Turn of Events - An instant DT classic. A real musical statement that paved the way for a decade of music in the same way that Images & Words paved the way for a decade of music. I know some people don't like so much the mix, but I really don't mind.

2) The Astonishing - Ah, the controversy. The most ambitious and risky album they did with Mike Mangini (and probably the album that makes less use of him). I was really into film music back in 2016, so I remember this album was exactly what I was unconsciously yearning from the band. It was some of DT's most inspired and intricately written music but not all is good with this one (I still think the 3D modeled characters look kinda bad and the additional sound production is very subpar), but hey. This was clearly an album made to be played live, and the concert was incredible. Shame that we didn't get a proper live release.

3) Distance Over Time - I don't necessarily feel that it's a better album than A View From the Top of the World, but this felt like the first album from this era that was truly a group effort. The production is amazing as you can clearly hear the room it was recorded in, and in some ways this felt like a classic rock record.

4) A View From the Top of the World - Their ultimate Mangini-era statement. Tomorrow I could easily swap 3 and 4, but this is a record that truly sounds like a modern projection of the Dream Theater sound.

5) Dream Theater - I don't feel that this album hasn't aged so well. Although it has some pretty high moments (Illumination Theory), I feel that they've made superior versions of the songs that are to be found in here in plenty of other albums. I feel they kinda wasted their "self-titled" card with this one, although I understand why they decided to name it like such back in 2014.

All in all I feel their output was very strong. I hope they keep revisiting some of the music produced in this era because there are some truly wonderful cuts.

Quite honestly, if the Artwork of The Astonishing wasn't some cheap Hugh Syme style of 3D models, it would've done a lot better. Imagine if it had the same Anime style animation the SFAM set had?

[Madman Shepherd]

5) Dream Theater - I don't feel that this album hasn't aged so well. Although it has some pretty high moments (Illumination Theory), I feel that they've made superior versions of the songs that are to be found in here in plenty of other albums. I feel they kinda wasted their "self-titled" card with this one,

I have to admit this thought has crossed my mind before. I went back and gave it a good listen and realize why they did and am kind of surprised it never was obvious to me.

In many ways this should be the quintessential DT album. It has * everything* that has made up their career.

It of course has the epic - Illumination Theory
It has the ballad - Along for the Ride
It has the instrumental - Enigma Machine, though it's not the crazy noodley instrumental a lot of DT fans like. Me being an exception.
It has the Rushy song - The Looking Glass
It has a heavy, almost thrashy tune - The Enemy Inside
It has a mini epic - The Bigger Picture, which is one of the best songs they've ever recorded in my view
It has an orchestral instrumental - False Awakening Suite
Then it's got two other songs I can't quite place but the point is, if Dream Theater had a menu, this album gives you everything on it.

For me, I thought FAS was kinda bland. I don't care for their Rush-esque songs. The other two I couldn't describe don't do it for me either.  And im not crazy about TEI. That's five songs right there.

On the flipside, you know my view on TBP. AFTR I think is excellent. EM is my ideal type of instrumental. IT gets no complaints from me except I'm not 100% sold on The lyrics and I can't explain why.

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

So in a sense, naming it Dream Theater was perfect. It really does represent their entire career. It's just not everybody loves ToT or their What Would Rush Write songs. Not everybody loves an instrumental that doesn't cause the sun to melt. But almost everybody loves some of those things.

I love ToT but think TEI pales in comparison.  I can do without Dance of Eternity and would much rather listen to EM. I think AFTR is better than TSCO.  I'm kinda shocked more people don't love TBP. Half the songs bore me but half are among their best.

[bosk1]

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

I'm one that does really like it from start to finish.  Always have.  To me, it is a remarkably consistent album (a hallmark of the Mangini era), which is why I rank it at #4 in the discography overall (and ahead of I&W) because, to me, consistency and a start-to-finish strong album from song to song is something I really value.  The highs aren't as high as a lot of albums, given that in the top 100 thread, my two highest ranking songs from this album are 26 and 28.  But there's nothing that sits down near the bottom either.  It's just solid and enjoyable from the time I hit play until the last notes of IT fade (although I usually skip the outro). 

[Madman Shepherd]

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

I'm one that does really like it from start to finish.  Always have.  To me, it is a remarkably consistent album (a hallmark of the Mangini era), which is why I rank it at #4 in the discography overall (and ahead of I&W) because, to me, consistency and a start-to-finish strong album from song to song is something I really value.  The highs aren't as high as a lot of albums, given that in the top 100 thread, my two highest ranking songs from this album are 26 and 28.  But there's nothing that sits down near the bottom either.  It's just solid and enjoyable from the time I hit play until the last notes of IT fade (although I usually skip the outro).

I never skip the outro. It's actually one if my favorite parts on the whole album. I also loved that the tour ended with closing credits while this song played. I honestly wish it was 3 minutes longer.

[WardySI]

5) Dream Theater - I don't feel that this album hasn't aged so well. Although it has some pretty high moments (Illumination Theory), I feel that they've made superior versions of the songs that are to be found in here in plenty of other albums. I feel they kinda wasted their "self-titled" card with this one,

I have to admit this thought has crossed my mind before. I went back and gave it a good listen and realize why they did and am kind of surprised it never was obvious to me.

In many ways this should be the quintessential DT album. It has * everything* that has made up their career.

It of course has the epic - Illumination Theory
It has the ballad - Along for the Ride
It has the instrumental - Enigma Machine, though it's not the crazy noodley instrumental a lot of DT fans like. Me being an exception.
It has the Rushy song - The Looking Glass
It has a heavy, almost thrashy tune - The Enemy Inside
It has a mini epic - The Bigger Picture, which is one of the best songs they've ever recorded in my view
It has an orchestral instrumental - False Awakening Suite
Then it's got two other songs I can't quite place but the point is, if Dream Theater had a menu, this album gives you everything on it.

For me, I thought FAS was kinda bland. I don't care for their Rush-esque songs. The other two I couldn't describe don't do it for me either.  And im not crazy about TEI. That's five songs right there.

On the flipside, you know my view on TBP. AFTR I think is excellent. EM is my ideal type of instrumental. IT gets no complaints from me except I'm not 100% sold on The lyrics and I can't explain why.

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

So in a sense, naming it Dream Theater was perfect. It really does represent their entire career. It's just not everybody loves ToT or their What Would Rush Write songs. Not everybody loves an instrumental that doesn't cause the sun to melt. But almost everybody loves some of those things.

I love ToT but think TEI pales in comparison.  I can do without Dance of Eternity and would much rather listen to EM. I think AFTR is better than TSCO.  I'm kinda shocked more people don't love TBP. Half the songs bore me but half are among their best.

Nice read thanks.

And concur, like I said with respect and whatnot just never understood the dislike.  Faves haven't changed since it was first released either, for me it always comes down to The Bigger Picture and Behind The Veil. 

So yes, count me in also one of the few digging the album from start to finish. And after following them since Images and Words DT12 was my first DT to pick up on vinyl, so yeah there's that 

[jimgolf]

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

I'm one that does really like it from start to finish.  Always have.  To me, it is a remarkably consistent album (a hallmark of the Mangini era), which is why I rank it at #4 in the discography overall (and ahead of I&W) because, to me, consistency and a start-to-finish strong album from song to song is something I really value.  The highs aren't as high as a lot of albums, given that in the top 100 thread, my two highest ranking songs from this album are 26 and 28.  But there's nothing that sits down near the bottom either.  It's just solid and enjoyable from the time I hit play until the last notes of IT fade (although I usually skip the outro).

How could you skip the outro - its so good 

Maybe you just don't get it. You'll never know how good it is. Never know. Never knooOw.

[geeeemo]

What's funny is I hear very few people agreeing what the high points are but most think there are some. I hear very few people saying the album is trash. I hear very few people liking the album from start to finish.

I'm one that does really like it from start to finish.  Always have.  To me, it is a remarkably consistent album (a hallmark of the Mangini era), which is why I rank it at #4 in the discography overall (and ahead of I&W) because, to me, consistency and a start-to-finish strong album from song to song is something I really value.  The highs aren't as high as a lot of albums, given that in the top 100 thread, my two highest ranking songs from this album are 26 and 28.  But there's nothing that sits down near the bottom either.  It's just solid and enjoyable from the time I hit play until the last notes of IT fade (although I usually skip the outro).

How could you skip the outro - its so good 

Maybe you just don't get it. You'll never know how good it is. Never know. Never knooOw.

 


exactly 

[Setlist Scotty]

Just for kicks, I added up the "scores" for each of the albums to see what the general ranking would be based on how you all ranked them in this thread. A few of you posted a few times - perhaps not remembering you posted once before - and I didn't include ariich since he wasn't clear on his ranking.

So adding the totals (giving 5 points to first place, 4 points to second, etc.) here are the numbers:
ADToE: 262.5
d/t: 224
AVFtTotW: 204
s/t: 183
TA: 131.5

Given the general comments on this forum, I'd say this is a fairly accurate representation of how people here feel about the albums.

[Schurftkut]

ha that was my ranking as well :-)

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

DT12 does appear to be an underrated album. I think the production complaints sort of got in the way of peoples' ability to enjoy the songs.

I think had 1 or 2 things been just a little stronger (BTV and BP chorus melody and lyrics, the ballad) we might have the best album of the MM era.

[Setlist Scotty]

ha that was my ranking as well :-)

Well, it's your more recent ranking (you were one of the ones who posted twice in this thread) which the one I counted, but don't forget your post here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=58729.msg3051654#msg3051654

 

[Lonk]

DT12 does appear to be an underrated album. I think the production complaints sort of got in the way of peoples' ability to enjoy the songs.

I think had 1 or 2 things been just a little stronger (BTV and BP chorus melody and lyrics, the ballad) we might have the best album of the MM era.

DT12 is a weird one for me.

I enjoy some individual parts of it. STR is a top 20 DT song for me. TBP, Illumination Theory, and TLG are good songs. But songs like AFTR, and Enigma Machine drag this album soooo down for me. And while I enjoy IT, I think it is by far the weakest of their epics. TEI is fine, and so is BTV, but they are not enough to elevate this album.

[adamack]

1. A Dramatic turn of events
2. The Astonishing
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over time
5. A View from the top of the world

The ones at the top are magnificent. It was a good era as a whole, though. Even the ones at the bottom are solid.

You, sir/mam, saved me about 45 seconds of album name typing. This would be my order, good taste!