DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Please don't feed sealions, guys.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i just think we'd all benefit from a clear, transparent set of ground rules. the extant forum rules do not lay out what is or isn't' a legitimate link for discussion. seems fair to me. especially considering it was implied by a forum mod that i did something wrong when taylor swift chatter for 5 pages in this thread wasn't deemed inappropriate.

[hefdaddy42]

News sites are legitimate sources.

Some anonymous rando saying "hey guys, here's a rumor I heard " is not a legitimate source.

Everyone else seems pretty clear on that, my guy.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

understood. i'll only share blabbermouth and other "news sites".

tbh this is the first time i've ever been told Twitter/X/Bluesky, etc is not "news". but to each their own. i'm willing to try to play along. given this site's definition of news tho, 99.9% of americans are not reading any "news" these days. i find that interesting

[DragonAttack]

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i mean this is obvious, but also not the point being made here. i didn't share the rumor as fact, i just simply shared it. i even said it was dubious. is discussion around a DT rumor really worse than a 5 page tangent on taylor swift in the mike portnoy thread? i am kinda struggling here, honestly.

if folks would rather talk about taylor swift and politics all day, that's fine, but maybe www.dreamtheaterforums.org isn't the best URL for that.

[Jamesman42]

If you thought it was dubious, and there was no reason to believe it was true or had a source for it, again, why post it?

[nobloodyname]

@HoJo Well, the issue is you're repeating stuff here that is so obviously ground in fiction.

[efx]

understood. i'll only share blabbermouth and other "news sites".

tbh this is the first time i've ever been told Twitter/X/Bluesky, etc is not "news". but to each their own. i'm willing to try to play along. given this site's definition of news tho, 99.9% of americans are not reading any "news" these days. i find that interesting

Interesting but imo sad but that's not for this subforum. I think the way to think about it is this. Reputable outlets, print or otherwise will largely try and back up anything they post with credits or sources as their business wouldn't be helped in the long run if people found they just would print anything. News is their livelyhood and that could be hurt. And another aspect would be that it would probably sour a lot of the relationships with any artists they might have. Random accounts on Twitter fisning for likes does not have those expectations.  I could hop over there right now and make up a post about Kevin Moore rejoining the band. Would that be something anyone should take seriously? I think the beauty of a place like this is that people really care about the veracity of the information posted here. Applying a health does of common sense to this stuff goes a long way.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

If you thought it was dubious, and there was no reason to believe it was true or had a source for it, again, why post it?

because it generates dream theater discussion, which i thought was the purpose of this forum.

[hefdaddy42]

understood. i'll only share blabbermouth and other "news sites".

tbh this is the first time i've ever been told Twitter/X/Bluesky, etc is not "news". but to each their own. i'm willing to try to play along. given this site's definition of news tho, 99.9% of americans are not reading any "news" these days. i find that interesting

Twitter has NEVER been news in and of itself. It's a social media site. So not really sure what you're talking about there.

News organizations certainly use Twitter, And John Petrucci posting information on HIS Twitter feed would be DT news. But John Smith posting otherwise unsourced random information is NOT news. I really don't get where lies the difficulty.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

understood. i'll only share blabbermouth and other "news sites".

tbh this is the first time i've ever been told Twitter/X/Bluesky, etc is not "news". but to each their own. i'm willing to try to play along. given this site's definition of news tho, 99.9% of americans are not reading any "news" these days. i find that interesting

Twitter has NEVER been news in and of itself. It's a social media site. So not really sure what you're talking about there.

News organizations certainly use Twitter, And John Petrucci posting information on HIS Twitter feed would be DT news. But John Smith posting otherwise unsourced random information is NOT news. I really don't get where lies the difficulty.

no difficulty on my end. i've already (multiple times now) resolved to only sharing what this forum deems is "credible news" (AKA blabbermouth)

i'm now just more curious as to why a discussion point about DT is being treated as "bad" when this thread, on multiple occasions, has dovetailed away from the topic (Mike portnoy and his return to the band [and the upcoming music]). seems weird to me that i'm being singled out for starting dream theater discussion on a dream theater forum in a dream theater-specific thread, when on multiple occasions it's veered away. if anything i brought us back on topic with the rumor.

[Weymolith]

I have it on good authority that the new album will be called "Elephants Maintain Artistry & Balance" and we will all call it "EMA&B" for short.

[Jamesman42]

understood. i'll only share blabbermouth and other "news sites".

tbh this is the first time i've ever been told Twitter/X/Bluesky, etc is not "news". but to each their own. i'm willing to try to play along. given this site's definition of news tho, 99.9% of americans are not reading any "news" these days. i find that interesting

Twitter has NEVER been news in and of itself. It's a social media site. So not really sure what you're talking about there.

News organizations certainly use Twitter, And John Petrucci posting information on HIS Twitter feed would be DT news. But John Smith posting otherwise unsourced random information is NOT news. I really don't get where lies the difficulty.

no difficulty on my end. i've already (multiple times now) resolved to only sharing what this forum deems is "credible news" (AKA blabbermouth)

i'm now just more curious as to why a discussion point about DT is being treated as "bad" when this thread, on multiple occasions, has dovetailed away from the topic (Mike portnoy and his return to the band [and the upcoming music]). seems weird to me that i'm being singled out for starting dream theater discussion on a dream theater forum.

There is a difference between DTF doing the DTF thing and wandering far off-topic and posting dubious tweets from a social media site.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

so it's only ok to break the forum rules when you're a "DTF regular doing the DTF thing"? wouldn't we want to shatter any illusions of a little boys club, not build them up?

EDIT: just for clarity and transparency, I am referring to rule 10 in our rules which very explicitly and clearly states "Keep threads on topic".

[Jamesman42]

I mean, how closely can you monitor how a thread naturally evolves. Humans will take conversations where they will. Threads tend to get back on track, and when they get too bad, mods step in to redirect.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I mean, how closely can you monitor how a thread naturally evolves. Humans will take conversations where they will. Threads tend to get back on track, and when they get too bad, mods step in to redirect.

thanks. i like to think by posting dream theater news, gossip, rumors, i was doing just that. interesting to consider some people consider this not ok. but i'll digress and save it for next time. hope you're having a great day, man.

[hefdaddy42]

A piece of unsourced and clearly made up drivel is not a DT discussion point, especially when presented as a "rumor". Again, no one else seems unclear on this point, so I am not sure what else to say about it, and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

As far as threads veering off course, yes, that happens, especially in a thread like this where there is little if any new news to discuss. As long as people aren't intentionally hijacking a thread, we don't have to invoke rule 10.

And no, it's not a boys club. Feel free to join in, that's why we're all here.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I have it on good authority that the new album will be called "Elephants Maintain Artistry & Balance" and we will all call it "EMA&B" for short.

 Will all songs either be in Em, A or B?

[wolfking]

so it's only ok to break the forum rules when you're a "DTF regular doing the DTF thing"? wouldn't we want to shatter any illusions of a little boys club, not build them up?

EDIT: just for clarity and transparency, I am referring to rule 10 in our rules which very explicitly and clearly states "Keep threads on topic".

A couple of missed opportunities here.

[Setlist Scotty]

I have it on good authority that the new album will be called "Elephants Maintain Artistry & Balance" and we will all call it "EMA&B" for short.

Will all songs either be in Em, A or B?

Yes

[nobloodyname]

so it's only ok to break the forum rules when you're a "DTF regular doing the DTF thing"? wouldn't we want to shatter any illusions of a little boys club, not build them up?

EDIT: just for clarity and transparency, I am referring to rule 10 in our rules which very explicitly and clearly states "Keep threads on topic".

A couple of missed opportunities here.

Well, you can lead a horse to (the) water('s edge).

[hefdaddy42]

A piece of unsourced and clearly made up drivel is not a DT discussion point, especially when presented as a "rumor". Again, no one else seems unclear on this point, so I am not sure what else to say about it, and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

As far as threads veering off course, yes, that happens, especially in a thread like this where there is little if any new news to discuss. As long as people aren't intentionally hijacking a thread, we don't have to invoke rule 10.

And no, it's not a boys club. Feel free to join in, that's why we're all here.

I thought of a workaround.

TheHoveringSojourn80, if discussing these wild made-up "rumors" is something you find interesting, why not start a thread just for discussing those?

[Skeever]

In HS's defense, I think there is a lot more of a "gray area" within the rules than y'all mods really seem to acknowledge.

For example, it's pretty obvious from the rules that you can't bash the band, belittle them, criticize them in a non-constructive way, whatever.

But many times, it's also been made clear that you should express an opinion that, for example, "the band did something wrong". I forget where this came up, but I remember someone being warned pretty sternly because their criticism was veered in that territory of "the band made a mistake by doing X".

Then, there are times where speculating on a situation in a pretty reasonable way (like saying you think MM "got fired") has drawn the wrath of the mods, even though that's not even speculation at this point, but rather, just a colloquialistic way of expressing a situation where one person's employment ends when they would have rather it not have. Not sure what the big deal with that is, other than I guess the mods and/or band don't like it.

And now this stuff. I agree that these rumors are stupid, but what's the point of having a discussion forum if you aren't going to allow people to discuss (and dispel) stupid rumors?

It really does seem like the rules aren't that clear to me. Or rather, they are, but there's an unwritten rule: if the band wouldn't want to see something, don't say it.

But then again, this place was a total shitshow during the last tour with LaBrie criticism which, I'd say, often veered into stuff that was perhaps not constructive, and maybe even belittling to James. Yet, no one seemed to do anything about that, so even then...

[HOF]

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that there are gray areas, but when a mod steps in and clarifies that something isn’t going to be allowed, you just say “Roger that” and move on. 

[TAC]

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that there are gray areas, but when a mod steps in and clarifies that something isn’t going to be allowed, you just say “Roger that” and move on.

[bosk1]

I think it’s pretty easy to understand that there are gray areas, but when a mod steps in and clarifies that something isn’t going to be allowed, you just say “Roger that” and move on. 

Exactly.  There is not a set of rules that can address everything, and even though we do our best to administer and enforce them consistently, we aren't perfect.  We don't expect everybody to know exactly where the line is on something all the time, because we sometimes don't know either.  But, as stated, when we chime in on something, that's our call in the moment for how we think something should be interpreted or enforced, so that is the clarification.

On the issue at hand, I don't actually think it is that hard to understand the difference between discussion of actual news and discussion of wildly out there unsubstantiated rumors.  I'm not saying it is always clear what is and is not a rumor vs. actual news.  Yeah, there can be a big grey area where it's hard to tell.  I acknowledge that.  But that isn't what we are talking about here right now.  We are talking about anonymous users posting something on a gossip site and presenting that as if it is actual news.  Why that doesn't qualify as "band discussion" really should not be hard to understand.  The fact that thousands of users and 17 years after this forum came into existence, this almost NEVER needs a mod to step in and say "that's not news--don't post that" should be telling in that regard.

[Herrick]

wow, there sure are a lot of rules around what is an "OK" source. seems kinda arbitrary to me but i will be sure to only share blabber mouth articles from now on since that seems to be the gold standard

but like i said, ill just scour blabbermouth for gold standard objective journalism from now on and nothing else

I really can't tell if this mang is trolling or not 

But then again, this place was a total shitshow during the last tour with LaBrie criticism which, I'd say, often veered into stuff that was perhaps not constructive, and maybe even belittling to James. Yet, no one seemed to do anything about that, so even then...

I remember being surprised how long that went on but I think Bosk1 eventually did get involved. He also posted a thread explaining why he hadn't been around as much. I didn't read it. I do not know why other mods didn't crack down (or perhaps they did and I missed those posts). Not saying I had a problem with that thread nor am I criticizing any mods. This forum is a fucking utopia compared to other places.

[Sycsa]

In HS's defense, I think there is a lot more of a "gray area" within the rules than y'all mods really seem to acknowledge.

For example, it's pretty obvious from the rules that you can't bash the band, belittle them, criticize them in a non-constructive way, whatever.

But many times, it's also been made clear that you should express an opinion that, for example, "the band did something wrong". I forget where this came up, but I remember someone being warned pretty sternly because their criticism was veered in that territory of "the band made a mistake by doing X".

Then, there are times where speculating on a situation in a pretty reasonable way (like saying you think MM "got fired") has drawn the wrath of the mods, even though that's not even speculation at this point, but rather, just a colloquialistic way of expressing a situation where one person's employment ends when they would have rather it not have. Not sure what the big deal with that is, other than I guess the mods and/or band don't like it.

And now this stuff. I agree that these rumors are stupid, but what's the point of having a discussion forum if you aren't going to allow people to discuss (and dispel) stupid rumors?

It really does seem like the rules aren't that clear to me. Or rather, they are, but there's an unwritten rule: if the band wouldn't want to see something, don't say it.

But then again, this place was a total shitshow during the last tour with LaBrie criticism which, I'd say, often veered into stuff that was perhaps not constructive, and maybe even belittling to James. Yet, no one seemed to do anything about that, so even then...

Great post, I agree. The way that whole firing-saga unfolded, it was a headscratcher. The way I perceive it, DTF is a sort of platypus hybrid between an unofficial fan forum where (almost) anything goes, and an official extension of the band where there's a feeling that the band members might be reading it and whatever is posted somehow reflects on the band itself. Might not always be easy to balance it out. I remember MP's forum back in the day, sometimes it was like minefield roulette.

[DoctorAction]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

[wolfking]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

Exactly right mate.  While I was one that strongly contributed a lot to those discussions, there was nothing we were saying or pointing out that mods needed to step in for.  The intentions of our concerns and reasons behind them were always backed up also.

[bosk1]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

Exactly right mate.  While I was one that strongly contributed a lot to those discussions, there was nothing we were saying or pointing out that mods needed to step in for.  The intentions of our concerns and reasons behind them were always backed up also.

Yeah, I agree.  And most know here that unless something is posted that NEEDS immediate mod attention, we tend to err on the side of showing restraint and letting things play out to see if they go too far or resolve appropriately.

[wolfking]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

Exactly right mate.  While I was one that strongly contributed a lot to those discussions, there was nothing we were saying or pointing out that mods needed to step in for.  The intentions of our concerns and reasons behind them were always backed up also.

Yeah, I agree.  And most know here that unless something is posted that NEEDS immediate mod attention, we tend to err on the side of showing restraint and letting things play out to see if they go too far or resolve appropriately.

Cheers boss.  Plus, if that moment came where you stepped in and said one of us were out of order or drifting too far from where we should, we would have ceased and pulled it back immediately.

We were always respectful in regards to James and reiterated our love for him and where our concerns and issues stemmed from.  He's my number 2 fav singer of all time, I love him, always have. 

I don't know why that had to be brought up again though to be honest, I think we all just want to focus on the new era that's coming! 

[DoctorAction]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

Exactly right mate.  While I was one that strongly contributed a lot to those discussions, there was nothing we were saying or pointing out that mods needed to step in for.  The intentions of our concerns and reasons behind them were always backed up also.

Yeah, I agree.  And most know here that unless something is posted that NEEDS immediate mod attention, we tend to err on the side of showing restraint and letting things play out to see if they go too far or resolve appropriately.

Cheers boss.  Plus, if that moment came where you stepped in and said one of us were out of order or drifting too far from where we should, we would have ceased and pulled it back immediately.

We were always respectful in regards to James and reiterated our love for him and where our concerns and issues stemmed from.  He's my number 2 fav singer of all time, I love him, always have. 

I don't know why that had to be brought up again though to be honest, I think we all just want to focus on the new era that's coming! 

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

[wolfking]

If the JLB discussions were a shitshow, this place has the cleanest shit on the internet. Yes, there were passionate disagreements but love and admiration for James was expressed ad nauseum even by the people expressing disappointment in some of his performances.

Exactly right mate.  While I was one that strongly contributed a lot to those discussions, there was nothing we were saying or pointing out that mods needed to step in for.  The intentions of our concerns and reasons behind them were always backed up also.

Yeah, I agree.  And most know here that unless something is posted that NEEDS immediate mod attention, we tend to err on the side of showing restraint and letting things play out to see if they go too far or resolve appropriately.

Cheers boss.  Plus, if that moment came where you stepped in and said one of us were out of order or drifting too far from where we should, we would have ceased and pulled it back immediately.

We were always respectful in regards to James and reiterated our love for him and where our concerns and issues stemmed from.  He's my number 2 fav singer of all time, I love him, always have. 

I don't know why that had to be brought up again though to be honest, I think we all just want to focus on the new era that's coming! 

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

Definitely.