DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[Setlist Scotty]

What if this was all "part of the plan"?

We know MP is a huge fan of music history and lore.  MP is the archivist-setlist-bootleg-fanservice guy in the extreme.

You're right that MP knows his music history. In fact, he even cited a whole bunch of examples as reasons to encourage the rest of the band to go along with his suggestion of taking a hiatus, and that they would return bigger and better than ever as a result.

But no. There's absolutely no way this was scripted. I had fairly regular contact with him in the years following the split and there's no way that this was all just for show based on our communication and from what I heard from others.

[Stadler]

What if this was all "part of the plan"?

We know MP is a huge fan of music history and lore.  MP is the archivist-setlist-bootleg-fanservice guy in the extreme.

You're right that MP knows his music history. In fact, he even cited a whole bunch of examples as reasons to encourage the rest of the band to go along with his suggestion of taking a hiatus, and that they would return bigger and better than ever as a result.

But no. There's absolutely no way this was scripted. I had fairly regular contact with him in the years following the split and there's no way that this was all just for show based on our communication and from what I heard from others.

Short of him saying "this is not scripted", which did not happen, I can say I had at least two personal experiences that tell me that no, this was in no way scripted, planned or intended from the start.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i think it's possibly but extraordinarily unlikely that the MP leaving and coming back was not scripted

[Setlist Scotty]

i think it's possibly but extraordinarily unlikely that the MP leaving and coming back was not scripted

You think it *was* scripted? Based on what?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Why WOULD it be scripted?

Seems like a tremendous amount of coordination and work involved to do something that would yield no benefit to the band and create a risk a ton of risk for their legacy. How would DT in 2010 benefit from their beloved drummer leaving?

[hefdaddy42]

i think it's possibly but extraordinarily unlikely that the MP leaving and coming back was not scripted

You may be a crazy person.

No way in hell was this scripted.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

sorry, lmao i meant to write "was scripted"

my bad LOL. i haven't had coffee yet

[Schurftkut]

JP will be doing a Q&A friday during his Whisky promo-event. Anyone going and willing to ask our questions? 

[TAC]

What if this was all "part of the plan"?

We know MP is a huge fan of music history and lore.  MP is the archivist-setlist-bootleg-fanservice guy in the extreme.

You're right that MP knows his music history. In fact, he even cited a whole bunch of examples as reasons to encourage the rest of the band to go along with his suggestion of taking a hiatus, and that they would return bigger and better than ever as a result.

But no. There's absolutely no way this was scripted. I had fairly regular contact with him in the years following the split and there's no way that this was all just for show based on our communication and from what I heard from others.

Short of him saying "this is not scripted", which did not happen, I can say I had at least two personal experiences that tell me that no, this was in no way scripted, planned or intended from the start.

Same.

[PetFish]

Meh, I just thought I'd throw it out there.  MP also thinks and plans into the future with concepts and stuff so I'm just thinking along those lines.

I thought TOS808 was agreeing with me for a second.  Doh.

Also, don't people feel that the drummer auditions were "fake"?  Derek Roddy even said, right in the documentary, that he thinks DT knew who they wanted to go with the whole time.

Meh.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

sorry, i was trying to politely disagree with you while leaving open a chance for you to be right, but totally flubbed my wording this AM

[gzarruk]

Also, don't people feel that the drummer auditions were "fake"?  Derek Roddy even said, right in the documentary, that he thinks DT knew who they wanted to go with the whole time.

Meh.

I wouldn't call them fake, but I'd guess those were a lot more "calculated" than it may seem. Didn't Marco Minnemann hint that they offered him the job at first but he didn't take it because they wanted the new drummer to be 100% committed to DT and not to other projects? I'm not saying at all that this is what actually happened, I just vaguely remember him saying something like that.

What I'll say though is that, after the recent events, I just can't watch the audition documentary anymore. It made it seem they were looking for another member of the DT family but lately it felt *to me* like they ended up just having a work colleague.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Also, don't people feel that the drummer auditions were "fake"?  Derek Roddy even said, right in the documentary, that he thinks DT knew who they wanted to go with the whole time.

Meh.

I wouldn't call them fake, but I'd guess those were a lot more "calculated" than it may seem. Didn't Marco Minnemann hint that they offered him the job at first but he didn't take it because they wanted the new drummer to be 100% committed to DT and not to other projects? I'm not saying at all that this is what actually happened, I just vaguely remember him saying something like that.

What I'll say though is that, after the recent events, I just can't watch the audition documentary anymore. It made it seem they were looking for another member of the DT family but lately it felt *to me* like they ended up just having a work colleague.

I think he said he told them they were jamming just for fun and that separately he did not have the answer they were looking for when they asked how many DT albums did he know/have (cant remember exactly). But I don't recall him saying that they actually offered him the job before anyone else.

I thought some of the chatter was that they were going towards Mangini the whole time but still did the auditions- not that the band has ever said this.

[Jamesman42]

The next album better be called "Part of the Plan".

[TAC]

The next album better be called "Part of the Plan".

And now we have the plot for Metropolis Pt. III

[Stadler]

Also, don't people feel that the drummer auditions were "fake"?  Derek Roddy even said, right in the documentary, that he thinks DT knew who they wanted to go with the whole time.

Meh.

I wouldn't call them fake, but I'd guess those were a lot more "calculated" than it may seem. Didn't Marco Minnemann hint that they offered him the job at first but he didn't take it because they wanted the new drummer to be 100% committed to DT and not to other projects? I'm not saying at all that this is what actually happened, I just vaguely remember him saying something like that.

What I'll say though is that, after the recent events, I just can't watch the audition documentary anymore. It made it seem they were looking for another member of the DT family but lately it felt *to me* like they ended up just having a work colleague.

I think he said he told them they were jamming just for fun and that separately he did not have the answer they were looking for when they asked how many DT albums did he know/have (cant remember exactly). But I don't recall him saying that they actually offered him the job before anyone else.

I thought some of the chatter was that they were going towards Mangini the whole time but still did the auditions- not that the band has ever said this.

To be fair though, the circumstances around the drummer auditions are different than the events that made them necessary to begin with.   As I have said, I do not think Mike P. leaving was scripted in any way, shape or form, but I can absolutely see that ONCE THEY WERE IN THAT POSITION, there might have been preferences.  Companies, businesses, even individuals, do their due diligence all the time.   Anyone ever be dating and meet someone they REALLY like, but continue to date to see if there's any "there" there?   I know I've been involved in hiring processes where I felt I had a preferred candidate but went through the steps of interviewing to make sure we didn't miss something or whatever.  That doesn't make any of the subsequent steps "fake".   Man plans and God laughs; you've got to make sure you've lined up all your dominos the right way before you go and knock them over.

[gzarruk]

Also, don't people feel that the drummer auditions were "fake"?  Derek Roddy even said, right in the documentary, that he thinks DT knew who they wanted to go with the whole time.

Meh.

I wouldn't call them fake, but I'd guess those were a lot more "calculated" than it may seem. Didn't Marco Minnemann hint that they offered him the job at first but he didn't take it because they wanted the new drummer to be 100% committed to DT and not to other projects? I'm not saying at all that this is what actually happened, I just vaguely remember him saying something like that.

What I'll say though is that, after the recent events, I just can't watch the audition documentary anymore. It made it seem they were looking for another member of the DT family but lately it felt *to me* like they ended up just having a work colleague.

I think he said he told them they were jamming just for fun and that separately he did not have the answer they were looking for when they asked how many DT albums did he know/have (cant remember exactly). But I don't recall him saying that they actually offered him the job before anyone else.

I thought some of the chatter was that they were going towards Mangini the whole time but still did the auditions- not that the band has ever said this.

To be fair though, the circumstances around the drummer auditions are different than the events that made them necessary to begin with.   As I have said, I do not think Mike P. leaving was scripted in any way, shape or form, but I can absolutely see that ONCE THEY WERE IN THAT POSITION, there might have been preferences.  Companies, businesses, even individuals, do their due diligence all the time.   Anyone ever be dating and meet someone they REALLY like, but continue to date to see if there's any "there" there?   I know I've been involved in hiring processes where I felt I had a preferred candidate but went through the steps of interviewing to make sure we didn't miss something or whatever.  That doesn't make any of the subsequent steps "fake".   Man plans and God laughs; you've got to make sure you've lined up all your dominos the right way before you go and knock them over.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[porcacultor]

There are two parts to this: there's the decision on who'll be the new drummer and there's the decision to turn the auditions into a documentary.

That second idea was really brilliant. It felt to me that it built a lot of momentum around the new album and the change in the band's career, to the point of being something that could be appreciated and enjoyed even by non-DT fans. I remember sharing episodes of the audition documentary with friends who aren't DT fans in the slightest, and even they were excited -- and enamored with MM, which was to be expected given his bubbly personality.

I wonder how different things would've been without the documentary, regardless of some of it being "staged" or not (by that I mean, whether or not they were already set on hiring MM in the first place).

[MoraWintersoul]

I wonder how different things would've been without the documentary, regardless of some of it being "staged" or not (by that I mean, whether or not they were already set on hiring MM in the first place).

I don't really think they were already set on hiring him, but it was probably more his audition to 'blow' than anyone else's. All those salty reactions from involved and uninvolved drummers over the years (with the exception of Thomas Lang and Peter Wildoer that I've heard of, maybe some other guys had more normal reactions to the docu as well) were always eyeroll inducing to me, especially from guys who weren't seriously looking for that job and wouldn't have taken it if it were offered. Really, a guy who was seriously looking for that job was slightly ahead going in? Now you don't say

And I'm not saying this as a Dream Theater fan who thinks they're very much above pulling a stunt like the documentary just for publicity when they already had the guy 99% figured out, in fact I don't think they would have been above a business move like that but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

[porcacultor]

I wonder how different things would've been without the documentary, regardless of some of it being "staged" or not (by that I mean, whether or not they were already set on hiring MM in the first place).

I don't really think they were already set on hiring him, but it was probably more his audition to 'blow' than anyone else's. All those salty reactions from involved and uninvolved drummers over the years (with the exception of Thomas Lang and Peter Wildoer that I've heard of, maybe some other guys had more normal reactions to the docu as well) were always eyeroll inducing to me, especially from guys who weren't seriously looking for that job and wouldn't have taken it if it were offered. Really, a guy who was seriously looking for that job was slightly ahead going in? Now you don't say

And I'm not saying this as a Dream Theater fan who thinks they're very much above pulling a stunt like the documentary just for publicity when they already had the guy 99% figured out, in fact I don't think they would have been above a business move like that but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

Are you referring to the Marco Minneman comments? Because I too take those with a grain of salt (and what a mismatch with how jolly he looks on the docu!).

Personally, I think there was indeed a process where they didn't know who would be their guy, held auditions and made a choice. Whether or not that matches the pace and the sequence of the documentary is, to me, beside the point -- the documentary in itself is a "fictionalization" of the events (by its very nature, being an edited, hour-long-or-so affair)... And that's absolutely natural.

[TAC]

One thing the documentary did quite well, was effectively frame Mike Mangini to the fan base. If you were upset about MP leaving, how could you not like this guy? I thought they did him a favor in how they introduced him to the fanbase. I didn't even know who he was, but after watching the documentary, I loved the guy!

[Mosh]

One thing the documentary did quite well, was effectively frame Mike Mangini to the fan base. If you were upset about MP leaving, how could you not like this guy? I thought they did him a favor in how they introduced him to the fanbase. I didn't even know who he was, but after watching the documentary, I loved the guy!

Agreed. Mangini's audition was first in the doc and pretty much set the standard for the rest of the auditions shown. You could easily see how his personality, abilities, and playing style were more in line with the band than everybody else. I remember feeling at the time that he seemed like the only drummer who had a personality that fit the group.

It's good to remember also that by the time the documentary came out, Eddie Trunk had leaked the news that Mangini was the drummer so there were already strong suspicions.

I wouldn't say the auditions were "staged" per se, but I strongly believe that there were only one or two drummers who were realistically being considered for the job. I mean, maybe there's an outside chance that Aquiles Priester blows everyone away and gets the gig, but does anyone genuinely think everybody was being seriously considered? I just can't see it, and the documentary showed pretty clearly that some of those players were not a good stylistic fit - the DT guys are pro musicians and would have known that before the audition.

[Herrick]

I wonder how different things would've been without the documentary, regardless of some of it being "staged" or not (by that I mean, whether or not they were already set on hiring MM in the first place).

I don't really think they were already set on hiring him, but it was probably more his audition to 'blow' than anyone else's. All those salty reactions from involved and uninvolved drummers over the years (with the exception of Thomas Lang and Peter Wildoer that I've heard of, maybe some other guys had more normal reactions to the docu as well) were always eyeroll inducing to me, especially from guys who weren't seriously looking for that job and wouldn't have taken it if it were offered. Really, a guy who was seriously looking for that job was slightly ahead going in? Now you don't say

And I'm not saying this as a Dream Theater fan who thinks they're very much above pulling a stunt like the documentary just for publicity when they already had the guy 99% figured out, in fact I don't think they would have been above a business move like that but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

Other than Minnemann, who were the other drummers who supposedly didn't want the job? I watched an interview with Lang a couple months ago but I can't remember if he made that claim. From what I remember, he thought the auditions were staged for the purpose of making a documentary.

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Edit: I know musicians will do digs for the money or whatever, but a band like Dream Theater that isn't a revolving door seems like a weird choice to audition for if you don't really want to be in that band.

[TAC]

I thought Derek Roddy mentioned that he really did the audition for the experience.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I wonder how different things would've been without the documentary, regardless of some of it being "staged" or not (by that I mean, whether or not they were already set on hiring MM in the first place).

I don't really think they were already set on hiring him, but it was probably more his audition to 'blow' than anyone else's. All those salty reactions from involved and uninvolved drummers over the years (with the exception of Thomas Lang and Peter Wildoer that I've heard of, maybe some other guys had more normal reactions to the docu as well) were always eyeroll inducing to me, especially from guys who weren't seriously looking for that job and wouldn't have taken it if it were offered. Really, a guy who was seriously looking for that job was slightly ahead going in? Now you don't say

And I'm not saying this as a Dream Theater fan who thinks they're very much above pulling a stunt like the documentary just for publicity when they already had the guy 99% figured out, in fact I don't think they would have been above a business move like that but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

I am not sure who would have said this. Obviously a person's musical style isn't going to connect with everyone. But I have never heard a single professional musician or knowledgeable fan claim that MM did not deserve the job because of his performance or abilities (e.e., it was pure personality that won the day). He has a long track record and reputation for being a top notch drummer with uncanny skill. His audition was pretty clear if you'd never heard of him prior.

I don't know who would possibly think that his hire was a 'pure personality hire' but that sounds ridiculous from pretty much any angle.

[gzarruk]

IIRC, only Derek and Marco had negative comments towards the audition.

Bobby Jarzombek talked about having to turn down the offer to audition due to scheduling conflicts. I would've loved to see that audition happen, though.

[TAC]

but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

Someone said this? I don't remember that.

[Herrick]

I thought Derek Roddy mentioned that he really did the audition for the experience.

IIRC, only Derek and Marco had negative comments towards the audition.

Bobby Jarzombek talked about having to turn down the offer to audition due to scheduling conflicts. I would've loved to see that audition happen, though.

I'm sure this is a topic that was brought up when this thing went down but I missed those threads. I wonder what would've have been the response if one of these guys ended up being the drummer the band wanted. Would they have turned down the job? It doesn't really matter though. Maybe they all knew they weren't the number 1 choice to begin with but they wanted the exposure. Up until that point, the only ones I knew about were Minnemann & Donati. I knew who Jarzombek was but I didn't know he was going to "audition".

[TAC]

Here's the one on Derek..

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39993.0


Marco...

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36894.0

[HOF]

I do think Mangini always had the inside track due to his long working relationship with JLB. Plus he was a Berkeley guy. He was the first person I thought of when MP left.

I’d guess anyone else they brought in was more due diligence, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they all agreed to the documentary with the understanding that it wasn’t really an open audition (or with the filming being totally separate from the actual audition). I seem to recall there were talking head scenes with MM where he was talking about how much he wanted to get the gig, but nothing like that from any of the others. I doubt they made the others shoot that kind of footage, but maybe.

I think the whole thing was a good marketing tool for the band and the other drummers. It raised some profiles of those guys or at least introduced some of them to DT fans, and it kept the fans invested in the reveal (and as others have said built some rapport between the fans and MM).

[ReaPsTA]

What am I even reading....

[KevShmev]

One thing the documentary did quite well, was effectively frame Mike Mangini to the fan base. If you were upset about MP leaving, how could you not like this guy? I thought they did him a favor in how they introduced him to the fanbase. I didn't even know who he was, but after watching the documentary, I loved the guy!

This is a good point.  As someone who wasn't bothered at all by Portnoy's departure in 2010 (although I was pretty shocked by it), Mangini was easy to like right away, and the way he was presented in the documentary did him a great service.   

[gzarruk]

I knew who Jarzombek was but I didn't know he was going to "audition".

He only talked about it years after it on a drummer podcast and only because he got asked specifically about it (same podcast that had Thomas Lang comment on the audition). Bobby was on tour with Sebastian Bach at the time of the audition and decided to not to try as he wouldn't have enough time to properly prepare for it.

[MirrorMask]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

[gzarruk]

Even more, I read somewhere (could've been Aquiles' website or an interview) that it was Petrucci who recommended him to Tony MacAlpine a couple years after the audition. They got to record an album and also tour together for a while.