DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[gzarruk]

Like I'm sure I've said before, the click track doesn't really prevent improv moments or spontaneous fun at shows, it just helps the band play tighter and all in sync with whatever they want to trigger at the same time (lights, video, etc). If they wanted to include improv moments, extended jams, you name it, live and with a click, they sure could , they just don't seem to care about it too much.

IIRC, it was Dirk from Megadeth who talked about how they use a click track live but it's organic in the sense that some sections are consciously sped up or slowed down to better suit what they want to accomplish for each song section. So these things are very doable and available for DT to use if they needed to. The main reason why they started using the click in the first place was because (this comes straight from an interview with MM, i'm not assuming) either John P or Jordan wanted to have their delays, sounds, whatever, in sync every time, so they added the click. if they ever wanted to work with it a little more, we probably wouldn't be talking about it that much.

Also, and I'm not talking about MP specifically, I just don't buy the whole "I don't play live with a click because it kills the feeling" explanation. More often than not, it's just an excuse to rush (or drag) the tempo of a song, which DT did A LOT with MP on drums.

Again, DT fans are the only ones I've seen complain about the band using a click live. Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, Devin Townsend, Haken, etc. they all use click tracks live and nobody seems to mind.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i agree with gzarruk, the usage of the click doesn't necessarily hinder spontaneity. might they have to practice said spontaneity in the presence of a click? sure, but it's possible with one also

[TheOutlawXanadu]

DT was a mainstay in my playlist between 1992 and 2007. After BCSL, I started to lose interest. Things were just getting TOO cheesy. When MP left, I remember thinking that the band might deliver something extra special as a bounce back. I liked ADTOE alright, but maybe I was just burnt out on the over the top displays of crazy musicianship. I knew they could play, but I found myself missing songs such as Lifting Shadows and Surrounded. You can't go backwards though... but album after album following the drummer change eventually resulted in me not even listening to AVFTTOTW. I knew what I was going to get, and I'd heard it. No surprise. DT had proven to me that they were comfortable where they were. I knew I wasn't going to be blown away by any of it because I've already heard the shred and the epic.

I feel the same way and I believe this ties with the previous comment about JR joining the band. Kevin was more limited in his technique which meant that the rest of the band couldn't go on a full on technical prog metal instrumental. When Jordan joined, MP came to be the one that held them back from a technical standpoint. With him gone and MM coming in, there was nothing holding them back.
Needless to say that I didn't like where that went, but I understand that for a big chunk of the prog metal fans, having wanky instrumental sections and displays of technical prowess is great. I understand it if DT felt like going into that direction was good since they could please a big part of their fanbase and, knowing how the guys think, is also what they wanted to do.
Hopefully the coming back of MP means that they will go for something new and that they will try to push the envelope a little bit, or maybe they'll just stay on course but will dial things down a little bit. Either way, I will want to go back to seeing their live shows. I really enjoyed the ADTOE concerts and had fun at the DT12 as well, but I did feel that the shows were lacking something and I felt that MM overplayed the drums in the older songs. I can't fault the guy for wanting to add his touch, but it wasn't my thing.

Well, kind of ironically, Dream Theater probably wanked the hardest (lol) before Mangini joined the band. DT12, TA, and DOT are three of the most straightforward albums of their career in terms of song arrangements and song lengths. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW let 'er rip a bit more, but are still relatively tame compared to, for example, TOT. Even though Mangini has insane chops, I think the band were very cognizant after he joined to not let things go off the rails.

[Setlist Scotty]

In reference to a click, I love what Neil Peart said in an article from Drum! magazine back in 2015

Until the Clockwork Angels tour I had never used a click track live, except once years ago to stay in sync with a rear-screen film. For this tour it was helpful because we had eight string players in the Clockwork Angels String Ensemble, and they sometimes needed it when I wasn't playing. Even in certain passages when I was playing, it helped us all to stay together.

I was also required to stay in tempo with some long, legato sequences of keyboard or vocal effects, and the tambo-click helped with that, too. Even so, I am glad to say that the click appears in only a tiny percentage of the show, and only when absolutely necessary - or at least, "absolutely helpful."

On most songs, I prefer to hold it together myself, and let the band be a living, breathing organism that can push and pull naturally. These days many bands perform to a preprogrammed basic track, often a computerized software program. We always resisted that rigidity.

WWRD? Hmmm.....

[cramx3]

Again, DT fans are the only ones I've seen complain about the band using a click live. Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, Devin Townsend, Haken, etc. they all use click tracks live and nobody seems to mind.

It's likely because the average concert goes doesn't even know what a click track is.  But I have personally seen more complaints about it lately than before.  I think because a lot of people (cough Eddie Trunk cough) have become very outspoken against backing tracks and the click debate has crept in as well.  It's definitely not common to see people complain about a click, but it exists beyond just DT fans.

I do agree with what you are saying about clicks being able to be manipulated live.  I think that just goes back to the bands that are comfortable having the ebb and flow of their live show dictated by the live performance itself.  A lot of the talk of using click comes back to lighting and video, but there's plenty of bands that have incredible stage shows without a click.  To me, I think a click is simply easier and maybe mroe cost effective for stage show, than doing it all live.

Funny enough, there's a pop band AJR I enjoy.  They have a song called Come Hang Out with the lyric
"Should I go for more clicks this year
Or should I follow the click in my ear?"
and then the click track becomes audible.  They are a young band with a very young audiance.  They just opened something up to a group of people who likely don't know what a click track is.

[TAC]

  To me, I think a click is simply easier and maybe more cost effective for stage show, than doing it all live.

Hmm..this is an interesting thought. Can you expand a bit on this? I'm not challenging or questioning you. Do you mean they don't have to pay personnel because their jobs can be programmed?

[OpenYourEyes311]

I never cared for or against the click all that much. I did feel the tempo "slow down" to album-pace with Mangini, but I just supposed that's what the band wanted, so I was fine with it.

That said, I happened to catch a live performance on youtube of DT playing Bridges in the Sky just the other day. I believe it was from 2022. It was a drum cam video of just Mangini, and it became clear a couple minutes into it that while the drums were in fact live, the music being played in the video was straight off the album. It was very odd to hear, and I did not really enjoy the fact that the live performance could be synced up so precisely with the studio track.

[cramx3]

  To me, I think a click is simply easier and maybe more cost effective for stage show, than doing it all live.

Hmm..this is an interesting thought. Can you expand a bit on this? I'm not challenging or questioning you. Do you mean they don't have to pay personnel because their jobs can be programmed?

Basically. But also, your show can be "perfect" using a click track.  You can program the entire show including your instruments and effects to it.  Why bother having your lighting guy manually adjust everything on the fly and pay him and risk a fuck up when a computer can execute it perfectly and comes at a one time cost.  (granted, if you have stage lights, you likely have a lighting guy regardless)

The band I saw last night really felt like they weren't live at all and had a huge stage show.  Felt more like watching a movie than a concert because of it all.  But it sounded perfect and I bet most people in the venue went home saying how "good" they sounded, and all I kept thinking was "was any of that live?"

[Stadler]

FWIW, lots of "Jam" bands use a click and we all know jam bands love to improvise lol.

Not that I've ever heard.  At least, in live performance.

have you seen Phish, Umphrey's Mcgee, Goose, STS9, Lotus, Papadosio, Disco Biscuits, Dopapod? those bands all use clicks

ones I am aware of that don't are the various Grateful Dead incarnations, Billy Strings, moe., String Cheese Incident (not totally sure but i believe they don't)

I know that the Biscuits and Dopapod do, but I would be flabbergasted to hear that Phish or UM do.  Or even Goose.  I mean, why would they?

I actually just found two articles about the lighting engineers for Phish and UM respectively, praising them for the live work they do given the fact that neither band plays to a click track.  So the lighting engineers are essentially "jamming" with the band the whole time.

Nectar used to do that, too.  Wasn't there a spot in one of the documentaries for Dream Theater about that? Or was it Marillion?  It was basically the lighting team talking about having to follow the band in real time to keep the lights synched to the music.   

[Dream Team]

I watched the WDADRU DVD the other day. No click track, no backing tracks, piped in vocals, nothing. All naked and live and it was glorious. Hope we get a return to that.

Even if those songs weren’t your favorites, the performances were amazing as the band was on fire. Those nice melodic sections added to TKH and LFAGA  .

[Stadler]

FWIW, lots of "Jam" bands use a click and we all know jam bands love to improvise lol.

Not that I've ever heard.  At least, in live performance.

have you seen Phish, Umphrey's Mcgee, Goose, STS9, Lotus, Papadosio, Disco Biscuits, Dopapod? those bands all use clicks

ones I am aware of that don't are the various Grateful Dead incarnations, Billy Strings, moe., String Cheese Incident (not totally sure but i believe they don't)

I know that the Biscuits and Dopapod do, but I would be flabbergasted to hear that Phish or UM do.  Or even Goose.  I mean, why would they?

UM and Goose have a lot of electronica elements (which sometimes include samples - which basically necessitate a click)

Phish probably just because they're old as shit now I know they never used to, it's a new thing since they've returned to live touring in the late 2000s

Just for the record, one does not need a click to implement samples.   A band can trigger them live in real time.  Marillion does that on occasion, as does Fish.

[hefdaddy42]

FWIW, lots of "Jam" bands use a click and we all know jam bands love to improvise lol.

Not that I've ever heard.  At least, in live performance.

have you seen Phish, Umphrey's Mcgee, Goose, STS9, Lotus, Papadosio, Disco Biscuits, Dopapod? those bands all use clicks

ones I am aware of that don't are the various Grateful Dead incarnations, Billy Strings, moe., String Cheese Incident (not totally sure but i believe they don't)

I know that the Biscuits and Dopapod do, but I would be flabbergasted to hear that Phish or UM do.  Or even Goose.  I mean, why would they?

I actually just found two articles about the lighting engineers for Phish and UM respectively, praising them for the live work they do given the fact that neither band plays to a click track.  So the lighting engineers are essentially "jamming" with the band the whole time. 

how old are those articles? if they're talking about Ben Factor for UM it's probably older. Or maybe UM only uses the click when they are dipping into an electronica vibe for a while?

The Phish article was from August, this year.

The UM article mentioned the tour for You Walked Up Shaking In Your Boots But You Stood Tall And Left A Raging Bull, which was just 2 years ago.

So given that, I was just curious where you got the idea that those 2 bands in particular perform to a click, because they clearly don't.

[ReaperKK]

Im a recent Phish fan and I did some reading about their lighting rig (it's incredible if you haven't seen it) and I never once saw anything that indicated they played to a click. Additionally I spent the summer watching live stream Phish shows and IMO there is no way they are playing to a click.

[ReaPsTA]

I don't understand the benefit of the click track to the end listener.

A professional lighting engineer should be able to work with the band.

A professional band should be able to turn in a tight performance without one.

Who wants to go to a show and hear the song exactly how it was on the album? That's what the album is for.

[heirtoruin]

I don't understand the benefit of the click track to the end listener.

A professional lighting engineer should be able to work with the band.

A professional band should be able to turn in a tight performance without one.

Who wants to go to a show and hear the song exactly how it was on the album? That's what the album is for.

My dude.

I'm not convinced it saves on ticket costs because someone has to run the expensive interface either way. They aren't paying venue staff a rate to do it.

[ReaPsTA]

And if you're using a click to make the show more sophisticated, that's its own cost.

[Dedalus]

Well, I believe that bands that adopt the procedure must have benefits of some nature in mind, be it procedural, economic, pragmatic, performance, etc.

So it is possible that they judge that, in the end, this will be beneficial for the process as a whole, thus benefiting the final listener (hypothetical example - the use of clicks allows instead of me having three people hired for lighting and visuals, big screen, videos, etc., I have two and it becomes more economical, which makes shows more viable, etc.)

Certainly bands don't adopt the use of these tracks as a way to irritate their fans.

Or they merely want to see us busy with arguments for decades... it's a possibility.   

[ReaPsTA]

The benefits for the band are obvious.

You could say those benefits filter to the listener. I'm not seeing/hearing it.

I am an end listener talking to other end-listeners. Obvious where interest lies here.

[TAC]

I've been under the weather the last couple of days, but I've been trying to keep up with this thread. Lots of great points being made, and I keep thinking, I gotta respond to this and that, but I can't quote a hundred things I want to respond to so I'll just post this..

How do I feel about MP coming back?
Honestly, I thought I'd be more excited. Maybe it's because there's been radio silence from all involved, save for MP's RRFC Q&A, of which the breadcrumbs have been dissected already. I really like Mike Mangini, and his work in Dream Theater. I guess I'd be more comfortable with a more organic change, which from MP's side it was, but from MM's side...well..
Mike Portnoy is my all time favorite drummer. When he left, I knew I'd have a hard time following him post DT. In fact, there's nothing he's done that I was even remotely interested in. Not one. Now he's back in my musical life and, well, I thought I'd be more excited. I have pretty much loved all on the Mangini Era albums, so I didn't have a problem musically. At all.


MP vs MM
I've always described the difference like this, MP inspires me to pick up my drumsticks, and MM inspires me to put them back down.
I had always connected with MP's playing. There was a relatability to what he's playing, like I knew where he was going next before he did. There's a certain playalongability to it. With Mangini, I simply listen with amazement.
Live they are both incredible to watch. MP has a style that is slightly more pleasing to the ears and eyes, but that's not a knock on Mangini. I watch him pretty much the entire show anyway.
They both have an amazing personality live. I think Mangini's live personality is and was underrated. The guy interacted with all of his bandmates and it always looked like they were having fun.
Despite Mangini's all around amazing personality, he was never a "personality add" to the band. The band's personality was generally steered by MP and then JP. You can say the band lost personality when MP left, and you'd be right, but since the band would then take on JP's personality, there was nothing that Mangini could do about that, which was to be his gracious and fun self, which he always was.  I hope no one is scapegoating him for this.


Playing to a click/Rotating setlists
I don't get too stuffed with the click thing, I guess. Maybe if they now go away from it, it could subconsciously be a thing. No matter what the tempo, they're still playing their instruments, and I'm still amazed. I do think they've overproduced their video presentation, and I actually found it distracting on the last tour.
As far as Rotating Setlists...in the end, it doesn't mean anything to my show. I only go to one show, Boston, so I really don't care what they play in Poughkeepsie. However, it does go to speak to the lack of engagement with the fans that came with the change in stewardship from MP to JP.  Now, every tour, it starts, and I wait for my Boston show. It comes and goes, and that's it for me for another 18 months. There's no reason to follow the tour whatsoever. Youtube plays the same show night after night, so even that's unsatisfying. 
Before with the rotating setlists, I'd check MP.com the day after every show, like reading box scores in the newspaper. I'd stay engaged for the entire tour. Sure not every setlist is created equal, but they were tailor made for each city each year, and that's cool. Also, I understand not everyone is into bootlegs, but I loved to collect various shows from every tour. Different setlist combinations, and overall, a much larger cumulative live setlist for each tour. Again...it kept me engaged. MP understood this.


Production and accountabilty
For the studio, I think JP has done a good job producing without MP, but I'd be happy to see them collaborate again.
To me, the big opportunity will be the production of the live albums.  Honestly, the Mangini Era live albums don't even sound live. The music is so technically perfect, and the crowd noise sounds like it was mixed in by a beginner. Compared to Budokan and Live Scenes, it's not even close.
It feels like the only time we ever hear from JP, it's because he's selling gear, or beard oil. Why are songs left off of live albums? How come we never get any answers to things like that. MP always gave us a kind of glimpse into the band that has been basically shut down since he left. Again, engagement.



Attendance/Excitement
I thought the first leg of the View tour was pretty well attended in Boston. I thought the crowd was pretty strong. The Dreamsonic tour, the whole tour it seemed, had abysmal sales. I don't think it's a total reflection on Dream Theater though. For one, it was 18+ months after the album came out. It was likely going to be a shortened set, and who knew what the setlist would be. As it was, they devoted 20 minutes of an abbreviated set to a song they played on the first leg (TCOT).  If I'm going to spend my money on a show, just give me DT!! I considered not going myself, but I got good seats at a decent price so I went. But I was fully prepared not to.
In fact, I skipped the Progressive Nation '08 show for all of the same reasons. I mean they dedicated time in an abbreviated set to play a fucking Mario video..WTF??
I was looking at the Spotify streams for DT's albums. Sure View seems a bit down, but DT has not fallen off a cliff streamwise in the Mangini era. There's a certain staticness to a band and for most bands, they have portions of their fan bases that are casual and fickle in nature. They clutch on for a bit, and then they get off.
A band loses ME when they ignore new material, or stop producing new material at all. I am not interested in hearing just 20-25 y/o material. It's fine if it's represented for sure, but I like all eras of a band to be represented, and not by the same songs every tour. I have skipped tours by some of my favorite bands because of this..namely UFO and Alice Cooper. I don't want a token new song and a bunch of old shit.


DT16
I expect to love it, as I do most Dream Theater albums. Personally, I put the 5 Mangini albums up against the 5 MP albums that preceded them easily. Their output has never been an issue with me. In fact, I've been impressed that they have carried on as they have.
I expect MP to be a huge salesman for the band again, and that alone should create excitement. MP's stewardship of the band gave the aura of the band a more human feel to it, whereas JP's stewardship gave it a bit of a robotic feel. Again, the musical output, for me, was never an issue, nor was Mangini in his personality or his playing. As Stadler has mentioned a couple of times, the JP solo tour last year with MP was an amazing experience. I had the cheap seats up top, and the vibe was as clear up there as it was down front. I'm ready.

[wolfking]

Nice post mate.  Good read and valuable thoughts and opinions.

[ReaPsTA]

Youtube plays the same show night after night, so even that's unsatisfying.

Yes.

It feels like the only time we ever hear from JP, it's because he's selling gear, or beard oil. Why are songs left off of live albums? How come we never get any answers to things like that. MP always gave us a kind of glimpse into the band that has been basically shut down since he left. Again, engagement.

I think JP is over-interested in avoiding controversy. Not saying you should be deliberately controversial (I think, especially near the end of his first run, MP got too unfiltered), but engagement is the game.

As it was, they devoted 20 minutes of an abbreviated set to a song they played on the first leg (TCOT).

I wish I understood why this song was played so much.

If I'm going to spend my money on a show, just give me DT!!

Hard agree.

I was looking at the Spotify streams for DT's albums. Sure View seems a bit down, but DT has not fallen off a cliff streamwise in the Mangini era. There's a certain staticness to a band and for most bands, they have portions of their fan bases that are casual and fickle in nature. They clutch on for a bit, and then they get off.

I think this is why, in a sense to Petrucci's credit, he was smart to call Portnoy up now. I haven't been keeping my finger that closely on the pulse of the fanbase, but the Dreamsonic tour was the first time I started seeing a collective sense that whatever was going on just wasn't working, even though in retrospect you could see the signs building. You could easily say "well, we've made bad career moves before, we'll put our heads down in the studio make another good album, and have another good tour." And if that doesn't work out, now everyone thinks "Mangini-era DT sucks and is stale" and you're potentially in a tailspin. Better to nip the problem in the bud proactively.

DT16
I expect to love it, as I do most Dream Theater albums.

I have no idea what to expect. I didn't enjoy LTE 3 much, because it felt like them trying to recapture a vibe that no longer could be captured. For all that the newer DT albums were overly on-brand, there were different things they were trying on each one that made them more interesting. If they go into the studio for DT16 and try to recapture the old days, well, oh boy. But I can also imagine MP knowing that part of why he left DT in the first place was because it was getting creatively stale, and the rest of DT knowing that part of the reason the Mangini era ended was because it was running out of stream, and them knowing that something needs to change in order to move forward. I can imagine a lot of possibilities in between.

[TAC]

DT16
I expect to love it, as I do most Dream Theater albums.

I have no idea what to expect. I didn't enjoy LTE 3 much, because it felt like them trying to recapture a vibe that no longer could be captured. For all that the newer DT albums were overly on-brand, there were different things they were trying on each one that made them more interesting. If they go into the studio for DT16 and try to recapture the old days, well, oh boy. But I can also imagine MP knowing that part of why he left DT in the first place was because it was getting creatively stale, and the rest of DT knowing that part of the reason the Mangini era ended was because it was running out of stream, and them knowing that something needs to change in order to move forward. I can imagine a lot of possibilities in between.

I find parts of LTE3 kind of cringy, so I'm with you on that. I always feel confident about DT "next" album.
I'm a huge View guy, so I don't think it was stale at all. They gave me the album I was hoping for. I felt they needed something dense and technical. Now if they can add a little LSOAD to that, and not the lame Out Of Reach, I'll be happy.


I like the last album of the MP Era, as it gave me two of my fave DT songs, and as I said, I loved the end of the MM Era too. The only album that I truly felt disappointed by in real time was FII.

[wolfking]

I didn't like LTE3 either, but I think that's more that I've grown out of that style of music.

[TAC]

I didn't like LTE3 either, but I think that's more that I've grown out of that style of music.

There's a cringyness to MP sometimes, but that's kinda part of his charm.

[KevShmev]

I liked LTE3, but it didn't live in my CD player for very long, at least not compared to the first two.  It felt a bit too much like a "let's check the boxes" record, and a lot of the best stuff got relegated to the bonus disc. 

[Setlist Scotty]

Timmay, that was an awesome post - I strongly agree with just about everything that you wrote. In particular the points you made about the rotating setlists and the MP-era vs MM-era live albums were spot on!

There is one thing that I want to clarify though...

In fact, I skipped the Progressive Nation '08 show for all of the same reasons. I mean they dedicated time in an abbreviated set to play a fucking Mario video..WTF??

I think you didn't realize that this was the 2.5 minute or so encore break that the band would take anyway between the end of the main set and the encore. So really, aside from perhaps being slightly longer than what they'd normally do before returning to the stage, it was the same, with the added bonus of the audience having something entertaining to watch in the process. Nothing to take issue with at all.

You bringing up the Progressive Nation shows actually brings up a good point in comparison to the DreamSonic shows. I only attended one show for PN08 because of the abbreviated DT set and because I couldn't care less about Opeth or BtBaM (plus I had seen 3 open for PT at two shows the year before), but I remember that show was well attended regardless of the shorter set and that it was essentially a continuation of promotion for Systematic Chaos, which is similar to DreamSonic and promoting of AVFtTotW. So I would be curious to hear from others who also attended shows on the PN08 tour specifically (*not* PN09 because that was the opening leg of the BCaSL tour and so automatically you would expect a higher turn out for that part of the tour). For those of you who attended one or more PN08 shows, what do you remember about the attendance? Was the turn out the same, larger or smaller than what you normally would expect?
 
 

I have no idea what to expect. I didn't enjoy LTE 3 much, because it felt like them trying to recapture a vibe that no longer could be captured.

I think I agree with most of the things you post ReaPsTA, but definitely not this. I love LTE3 and feel it's the perfect continuation of the first two LTE albums. While the highs might be a bit higher on the first two, the lows aren't anywhere near as bad as on the first two either, so averaging it all out, I prefer LTE3 over the other two albums. In particular, I really enjoy the improvs from LTE3 much more than the first two albums, and the written material is also really good, IMO.

[TAC]

Timmay, that was an awesome post - I strongly agree with just about everything that you wrote. In particular the points you made about the rotating setlists and the MP-era vs MM-era live albums were spot on!

There is one thing that I want to clarify though...

In fact, I skipped the Progressive Nation '08 show for all of the same reasons. I mean they dedicated time in an abbreviated set to play a fucking Mario video..WTF??

I think you didn't realize that this was the 2.5 minute or so encore break that the band would take anyway between the end of the main set and the encore. So really, aside from perhaps being slightly longer than what they'd normally do before returning to the stage, it was the same, with the added bonus of the audience having something entertaining to watch in the process. Nothing to take issue with at all.

Yeah, fair enough. Still..

[Dedalus]

TAC - Excellent post.

The argument that rotating setlists help maintain engagement is a great one, they really do. Okay, a few people's involvement, as I highly doubt most of the fandom was following show by show to check out the setlist, but it's totally true for this narrower part of the fandom (aka DTF and similar places).

[ReaPsTA]

I have no idea what to expect. I didn't enjoy LTE 3 much, because it felt like them trying to recapture a vibe that no longer could be captured.

I think I agree with most of the things you post ReaPsTA, but definitely not this. I love LTE3 and feel it's the perfect continuation of the first two LTE albums. While the highs might be a bit higher on the first two, the lows aren't anywhere near as bad as on the first two either, so averaging it all out, I prefer LTE3 over the other two albums. In particular, I really enjoy the improvs from LTE3 much more than the first two albums, and the written material is also really good, IMO.

Maybe I'll give it another try at some point.

[TAC]

TAC - Excellent post.

The argument that rotating setlists help maintain engagement is a great one, they really do. Okay, a few people's involvement, as I highly doubt most of the fandom was following show by show to check out the setlist, but it's totally true for this narrower part of the fandom (aka DTF and similar places).

Right. If DT is just another band for you (not YOU!), then it doesn't matter. But if you're dedicated fan, it's one thing that makes you feel like the band is dedicated to you.

Again, to me, the musical output and my actual one or two shows per tour didn't really suffer going from MP to MM, but the overall DT Fan experience definitely changed. For all of their talk about dividing up all that MP did when he left, it was really never followed through. The Ytsejam Bootleg Series was one of the coolest things done by any band that I have ever followed, and it made following DT a special experience.

Maybe there was a 10 year moratorium on them, but regardless, when the resumed as LNF, look at the packaging. Does it look like anyone in the band cared how those were presented? No personal notes...from anybody in the band? There's even songs left off of live releases....WTF?

Any band can release an album and play my city every 2.5 years, but then that's what you become when you become any band. DT was never "any band" for me. There was just so much more engagement than driving up to collect my concert money.

[ReaPsTA]

Again, to me, the musical output and my actual one or two shows per tour didn't really suffer going from MP to MM, but the overall DT Fan experience definitely changed. For all of their talk about dividing up all that MP did when he left, it was really never followed through. The Ytsejam Bootleg Series was one of the coolest things done by any band that I have ever followed, and it made following DT a special experience.

Maybe there was a 10 year moratorium on them, but regardless, when the resumed as LNF, look at the packaging. Does it look like anyone in the band cared how those were presented? No personal notes...from anybody in the band? There's even songs left off of live releases....WTF?

Any band can release an album and play my city every 2.5 years, but then that's what you become when you become any band. DT was never "any band" for me. There was just so much more engagement than driving up to collect my concert money.

Yes.

I think the last like, Dream Theater interview thing I was really into was JP and JR's videos breaking down the Astonishing. I don't even like that album very much, but the explanations were meaty and you could actually feel why they were passionate about writing it.

I remember an interview where JLB talked about At Wit's End, and he said what it was about. And I'm thinking "yes, it's obvious." But, unless I'm just stupid, I don't remember him talking about why he wanted to write it. Maybe it's too personal who knows. But it's like, well, okay, there's no real value add here.

[Dedalus]

In fact the other guys are very bad at maintaining a close relationship with the fans and this implies the things mentioned.

I even think that Jordan would have the potential for this (he makes a lot of effort to be close to HIS fans on social media) but this role didn't fit him in DT (maybe because he's not part of the trinity, as Stadler would say?).

As TAC noted, not even MP's return to DT did they know how to explore properly in terms of social networks, media, whatever.

[Jamesman42]

For those that didn't like LTE3, did you at least like the opening track Hypersonic? I also wasn't the biggest fan of the album, but that song is incredible to me.

[HOF]

For those that didn't like LTE3, did you at least like the opening track Hypersonic? I also wasn't the biggest fan of the album, but that song is incredible to me.

I think Hypersonic is probably my least favorite track (well, Rhapsody in Blue probably, but it wasn’t “new” per se). Just felt like a contrived, “we’ve got to really set everyone’s faces on fire” type of track (which is similar to the openers from the first two albums to be fair). I enjoyed the album as a whole even if it didn’t captivate me like the first two did so many years ago. I also thought the bonus disc was as good or better than the main album.

[gzarruk]

It feels like the only time we ever hear from JP, it's because he's selling gear, or beard oil. Why are songs left off of live albums? How come we never get any answers to things like that. MP always gave us a kind of glimpse into the band that has been basically shut down since he left. Again, engagement.

Overall great post, TAC, but this part is the one that hit the hardest to me. I get it, it's tough out there, you gotta make money somehow and selling prog metal isn't going to do that, but I think you nailed it here. The actual band stuff became, to a degree, an afterthought for JP the businessman and PR expert. While I definitely agree MP needed a lot more filtering back in the day, the last decade, specially the last couple years, have felt like we were following a big corporate entity and not a band that cares for what their fans want (not that the fans are always right, though). Btw, I'm not talking about the actual music, but all the other relational stuff.